Hulk Hogan Dies At 71

[ohtani's jacket]

Hogan was off making a movie when I began watching wrestling. Macho was the guy for the first few weeks that I watched it. I vividly remember the angle where they reintroduced Hogan. This was right before SummerSlam '88. I remember DiBiase saying that Hogan had crawled out from under the rock he was hiding under. I missed out on WrestleMania III and The Main Event and didn't watch them, or WrestleMania IV, until sometime later. I was into the Mega Powers, though, and the absolute peak of wrestling in my country was the Mega Powers exploding and the lead-in to WrestleMania V. I kind of fell into wrestling and comics around the same time. I think wrestling came first and then comics, but that was a formative year. 

 

[ohtani's jacket]

I suppose, in many ways, I wouldn't have become a wrestling fan without Hogan. Territorial wrestling had died out in New Zealand when I was a small child and was no longer on television. The WWF became hot in Australia before New Zealand. I remember I had an uncle who lived in Australia who came back to NZ for the first time in like 15 years, and we were sitting in my grandmother's living room on the night he returned and he wanted to watch two things, Married with Children and WWF Superstars. That was the first time I saw wrestling. I clearly remember watching Hacksaw Jim Duggan hit Andre the Giant with his 2x4 on the episode I watched. Then it blew up at school and was massive for about a year until Ninja Turtles took off. We had the Apter mags and various non-WWF wrestling tapes, but I don't believe I would have been exposed to wrestling if not for Hogan. Folks always talk about the WWF going national. They actually went global. 

[David Mantell]

1 hour ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Hogan was off making a movie when I began watching wrestling. Macho was the guy for the first few weeks that I watched it

He got a movie done, sure,but his main order of business at that time was changing Brooke's diapers* for Linda. Same with Warrior's reign and Nick's diapers*. And yup he got a movie done that time too. Savage reign #1 and Warrior were both basically Paternity Leave Cover champions.

.

.

(* we call them "nappies" over here)

[David Mantell]

4 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I suppose, in many ways, I wouldn't have become a wrestling fan without Hogan. Territorial wrestling had died out in New Zealand when I was a small child and was no longer on television. 

I can see that was a lot of fans' experience. I had (still have) a territorial scene to which to attach .

I turned on Big Daddy at about six years old after even cool villains I liked such as Yasu Fuji and Grand Vladimir lost to him. Perhaps if I'd been part of the Hulkamania generation I'd have pretty soon defected to a good interesting heel like Savage or Hennig.  I would definitely have cheered if Ax and Smash with Fuji had worked him over.  Even at 16 I kind of thought Warrior did a public service by winning WM6!

[ohtani's jacket]

1 hour ago, David Mantell said:

I can see that was a lot of fans' experience. I had (still have) a territorial scene to which to attach .

I turned on Big Daddy at about six years old after even cool villains I liked such as Yasu Fuji and Grand Vladimir lost to him. Perhaps if I'd been part of the Hulkamania generation I'd have pretty soon defected to a good interesting heel like Savage or Hennig.  I would definitely have cheered if Ax and Smash with Fuji had worked him over.  Even at 16 I kind of thought Warrior did a public service by winning WM6!

Wrestling went off the air in New Zealand in early 1991 after a bunch of complaints that kids were copying the moves. As a result, I never saw the tail end of Hulkamania in real time. I only saw it later on VHS. I do remember once I finally got access to WCW thinking that Hogan's act was fairly lame, but then he became the Wood and was relevant again. At no point was he as bad as Big Daddy, though. That's a slight. 

[David Mantell]

7 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Wrestling went off the air in New Zealand in early 1991 after a bunch of complaints that kids were copying the moves.

Happened in a few places eg Israel circa 1995, shut down by local  moral guardian Dafna Lemish.  Not in Britain though, AFAIK Mary Whitehouse left wrestling alone. The Mae Young/puppies incident was after her time anyway.

[David Mantell]

6 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

At no point was he as bad as Big Daddy, though. That's a slight. 

Yeah. Hulk was protected (mainly by his own politicing) but it never reached the point of him hever being shown in any serious peril that Max C booked his brother into.

Still, both were pompous lead good guy characters that made you long to see the bad guys win for once.

I remember learning about Hogan as a heel with Blassie and thinking it kind of made sense since Daddy had been a villain teaming with Haystacks in 1975-1977 and before that as "Battling Guardsman" Crabtree 1972-1974.

[sek69]

19 hours ago, David Mantell said:

Like I think I've already said. I just thought he was an American version of Big Daddy. 

This is actually a pretty apt comparison. Two extremely charismatic guys who kinda sucked in the ring but were massive cultural stars. 

[David Mantell]

30 minutes ago, sek69 said:

This is actually a pretty apt comparison. Two extremely charismatic guys who kinda sucked in the ring but were massive cultural stars. 

Both of them ripoffs of someone earlier too. 

Hulk Hogan was to Superstar Graham as Big Daddy was to Georg "Schurli" Blemenschutz over in Vienna at the Heumarkt.

As a 12 year old though,  I just saw them both as lead good guys who were shoved down my throat and I longer for that upset defeat for either one.

[ohtani's jacket]

Hogan was never as bad as Daddy in the ring. In fact, for the most part Hogan was a competent worker. There was a time in the 70s where Daddy was reasonably competent, but that's about where the similarities as workers end. Hogan was also a much bigger star than Daddy. 

I don't think Hogan was a ripoff of Superstar Graham. That's lazy, second hand hearsay. Graham cut the same sort of promos that Dusty did. Hogan never cut promos like that in the territories. When he first started, he wasn't a particularly strong promo. The closest thing he did to that sort of promo was as Thunder Lips. It was Vince who got him doing those coke-riddled promos about moving mountains and swimming across oceans. 

[David Mantell]

2 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Hogan was never as bad as Daddy in the ring. In fact, for the most part Hogan was a competent worker. There was a time in the 70s where Daddy was reasonably competent, but that's about where the similarities as workers end.

Daddy was restrained by Max Crabtree. Without that he could have been a British version of Hansi Rooks in Germany.  A lot of fuss is made over Hogan "wrestling technically" in Japan although this boiled down to just that drop toehold into crossface.

Until Graham turned up as Karate Man in late 82, Vince's Plan A was reportedly  for him to get his revenge and later in 83 turn babyface. Poaching Hulk back from the AWA was apparently Plan C (poaching Kerry being Plan B.) Or so the story goes.

[ohtani's jacket]

26 minutes ago, David Mantell said:

Daddy was restrained by Max Crabtree. Without that he could have been a British version of Hansi Rooks in Germany.  A lot of fuss is made over Hogan "wrestling technically" in Japan although this boiled down to just that drop toehold into crossface.

Until Graham turned up as Karate Man in late 82, Vince's Plan A was reportedly  for him to get his revenge and later in 83 turn babyface. Poaching Hulk back from the AWA was apparently Plan C (poaching Kerry being Plan B.) Or so the story goes.

And Hogan could have the next Hiro Matsuda, but the point is that Daddy was awful. Hogan was never awful. At least not during his peak Hulkamania years. I could give a crap about Hogan doing a hold in Japan. I'm talking about working competent house shows and main events. Now I realize Hogan throwing a punch or whatever isn't going to appeal to you, but if you ignore your preferences for a second, Hogan's actual mechanics were better than Daddy's. Hogan vs. Andre at WrestleMania III may have been a poor wrestling bout compared to some of their early bouts, but it is nowhere near as bad as Daddy vs. Haystacks at Wembley Arena. You can get as sentimental as you want about the era, but that's a hill I don't even need to think about dying on because it's as true as the sky is blue and the earth goes round the sun.

Vince's original plans are open to speculation. His most recent comment on the matter was that he was considering Dusty. If Hogan had meant to be Superstar v.2, I think you'd see a lot more of that in his gimmick. Muscles plus blonde hair equals just about every wrestler in the 70s and early 80s. Cornette says Hogan got a lot of his shtick from Austin Idol, but the truth is he picked up things from all over. Watch him cut promos in Memphis, he's not trying to be Idol or Graham. If anything he's doing a weird version of Terry Boulder. 

[David Mantell]

18 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Hogan's actual mechanics were better than Daddy's. Hogan vs. Andre at WrestleMania III may have been a poor wrestling bout compared to some of their early bouts, but it is nowhere near as bad as Daddy vs. Haystacks at Wembley Arena. You can get as sentimental as you want about the era, but that's a hill I don't even need to think about dying on because it's as true as the sky is blue and the earth goes round the sun.

No dispute there although taken individually the Andre of 1987-1990 was probably the worst of them. Daddymania may have reversed the 1970s UK decline but it also set in train the path of the rise of All Star until it took over the territory and still dominates today in 2025.

The drop toehold into crossface is the move Hogan fans all point to as "evidence " of him actually being some technical wizard LOL.   When I come across these people on Facebook I post them Johnny Saint Vs Vic Faulkner 1981 and tell them " Could Hulk do THAT"?

[ohtani's jacket]

I'm not sure if anyone was impressed by the hold itself, but merely the fact that it was Hogan doing it. It was an effect of the tape-trading days where we didn't have access to as much footage we have today to know that Hulk was trained to a reasonable extent in the territories and worked harder in Japan in general (as mostly everyone did.) I remember being part of tape trading circles back in the day and trying to get people to agree to get All Japan matches and there was always someone who wanted to get Hulk vs Muta or Hogan vs. Hansen instead. 

 

[David Mantell]

2 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I'm not sure if anyone was impressed by the hold itself, but merely the fact that it was Hogan doing it. It was an effect of the tape-trading days where we didn't have access to as much footage we have today to know that Hulk was trained to a reasonable extent in the territories and worked harder in Japan in general (as mostly everyone did.) I remember being part of tape trading circles back in the day and trying to get people to agree to get All Japan matches and there was always someone who wanted to get Hulk vs Muta or Hogan vs. Hansen instead. 

It was his one little party trick that he was rather proud of. Notably, he used it in his first WCW World title win from Flair, because he felt the "rasslin'" folks down South would demand it from him as a matter of credibility.

You do get these people on Facebook who go "All you people who say Hulk can't wrestle, watch THIS" and then post a video of the blessed drop toehold into chinlock.

[NintendoLogic]

Yeah, Hogan's matwork was really just a handful of canned sequences that never went anywhere or led to anything. Even so, as a worker, he was Kenta Kobashi compared to Big Daddy. By the way, it was in the AWA that he came into his own as a promo guy. It didn't happen overnight, but he pretty much had it figured out by 1983.

[C.S.]

Anyone who says Hogan was a "bad worker" is someone whose opinions on wrestling I immediately dismiss, because they so blatantly don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

[PeteF3]

1 hour ago, C.S. said:

Anyone who says Hogan was a "bad worker" is someone whose opinions on wrestling I immediately dismiss, because they so blatantly don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

I don't think Hogan's a bad worker (and comparisons to Daddy are laughable) but it's also possible they just have different ways of evaluating wrestlers than you and Hogan comes up short.

[David Mantell]

26 minutes ago, PeteF3 said:

I don't think Hogan's a bad worker (and comparisons to Daddy are laughable) 

It's not that they're comparable as workers.  But they are comparable as two highly overblown lead babyfaces.  

[ohtani's jacket]

The only time I would compare Hogan to Daddy is Hogan vs. The Dungeon of Doom, and maybe Hogan's 1993 run in the WWF. Prime Hogan, there's just no comparison. 

[JRH]

Hogan was able to have good to great matches against guys who werent that great of workers like Studd, Bundy, Warrior (though the Rick Rude feud a year earlier helped Warrior when it came to having "real" matches), heck, I'll even throw in the Goldberg match (though a lot of that was spectacle). 
 

[David Mantell]

2 hours ago, JRH said:

Hogan was able to have good to great matches against guys who werent that great of workers like Studd, Bundy, Warrior (though the Rick Rude feud a year earlier helped Warrior when it came to having "real" matches), heck, I'll even throw in the Goldberg match (though a lot of that was spectacle). 

Without brother Max booking him as a totally impregnable juggernaut,  Daddy could have surprisingly decent strength-based matches.

 

 

[David Mantell]

Hogan Vs Warrior needed Pat Patterson to make it work.

With him you got WM6

Without him you got HH98.

[ohtani's jacket]

42 minutes ago, David Mantell said:

Without brother Max booking him as a totally impregnable juggernaut,  Daddy could have surprisingly decent strength-based matches.

 

 

This, and the Colin Joynson match (which exists because I know someone who got it out of the archives) were anomalies though, and I think it's mostly Elijah guiding Daddy through the match and Daddy, for some reason, determined to show he can hang. I do quite like the tag matches Daddy had around this time, but I'd have to see more from the archives to believe Daddy was on this sort of trajectory until his brother made him a star. Hogan proved it over and over again. 

[David Mantell]

48 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

This, and the Colin Joynson match (which exists because I know someone who got it out of the archives) were anomalies

and a bout with Johnny Czeslaw too and all three did their bouts with him in the road plenty of times.  Somewhere out there is 8mm footage of Blond Adonis Crabtree on a 60s Paul Lincoln show.  He sells decently in the Solihull Kendo bout from 1975 and against Dave Bond in 1978 footage for experimental cable TV in Portsmouth. 

Max Crabtree booked Shirley (like Schurli at the Heumarkt) to be the unstoppable force of nature and Max hated bouts like the Elijah one, regarding them as a misuse of his brother by other Joint members (Earnshaw expressed the same opinion in his book.)