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Posted

Well, if you're ranking any, which ones you got? I've spent the last few years ranking the Mexican candidates, and this is how my list shook out:

#1 candidates:
1) Hijo del Santo
Greatest strength: Perhaps the best wrestler ever at having great matches.
Greatest weakness: Not exactly a figure of great fun or spontaneity.
Peak: I'd have Santo as a best in the world candidate for 1995, 1998, 2000, and 2001. I know that he has advocates for his '96 and '97 as well. He might have had years in the UWA when he ranked among the world's top workers as well, but we have very little footage from this era, and UWA Santo was more formulaic than the later version. Prime lasted over ten years.
Best matches: Compiling a brief list of Santo's best matches is a daunting task. I'd say the most famous/revered ones are vs. Espanto Jr. (1986), vs. Negro Casas (1987), vs. Brazo de Oro (1991), vs. Dandy and Casas (1996), vs. Casas (1997), and vs. Parka (2001). I'll throw in his 1988 match with Espanto as a personal favorite.

2) Negro Casas
Strength: One of the most creative and charismatic wrestlers ever.
Weakness: He was incredible in his thirties and had a good old man run in his fifties. I'm not sure his forties do a whole lot for his case.
Peak: One of the best workers in the world in 1992-93. Weekly Casas footage doesn't begin until the UWA got TV in late '91, by which point Casas had already entered his peak, so it's not clear how many years before 1992 he'd already been wrestling at that level. In 1996 he was a #1 candidate as well, although he didn't have the big 1v1 matches that he did in '92/'93.
Best matches: vs. Santo (1987), vs. Santo (1991), vs. Dandy (1992), vs. Ultimo Dragon (1993), vs. Fiera (1993), vs. Santo (1997), vs. Blue Panther (2012)

3) Fuerza Guerrera
Strength: A totally singular approach to villainy that was like 50% comedy, and it somehow worked.
Weakness: Doesn't have the resume of the workers around him on this list, in part because he was 5-15 years older than they were and likely had more of his best stuff in the '80s. But he also had a personality that didn't necessarily lend itself well to epic matches, especially against other top workers.
Peak: In 1990 he's one of the five best workers in Mexico. In 1991 he's my pick for #1 in the country and a contender for best in the world. He was still great for several years after, but as more of a great entertainer than a worker's worker. 1990-91 had the strongest overlap between his pure wrestling ability and his showmanship.
Best matches: vs. Pantera (1990), vs. Octagon (1991), vs. Misterioso (1991), the definitive AAA 3v3 (March 17 1995)
(I'm trying to limit the "best matches" to 1v1s, for reasons of space in this post and simplicity of assigning credit, and because I know that's what most people are looking for anyway. I'm also trying to combine my personal preferences with those of the rest of the universe for that section. I don't know if it's working.)

4) El Dandy
Strength: A master of two essential matches in the lucha style, the title match and the 3v3 leadup to a bigger match. The latter is especially valuable, as whenever there's a Dandy 1v1 available, it means that there are likely one or two preceding matches worth watching as well.
Weakness: Prime is inconsistent in quality, and his WCW years are largely a waste. Several of his best brawls involve rudo ref spots, which for a lot of people is an automatic fail.
Peak: One of the best wrestlers in the world in 1989 and 1990. There used to be a mythos around around his 1990 that I'm not sure still exists. Was one of the best in the world in 1996 as well, albeit at a slightly lesser level. Prime starts with the Pirata Morgan match at the latest and ends with the three-way at the end of '96.
Best matches: vs. Pirata Morgan (1988), vs. Angel Azteca (June 1990), vs. Satanico (December 1990), vs. Negro Casas (1992), vs. Santo and Casas (1996)

5) Virus
Strength: One of the best technical wrestlers who's ever lived.
Weakness: He can brawl, but I wouldn't call him a great brawler, and his resume also lacks heated 3v3s.
Peak: I think that Virus was at his best 2011-2015, when he was working as an old school rudo champion in a modern CMLL, but his best year (grading the performances rather than the worker) was 1997. He's up there with Eddy Guerrero and Stone Cold for the best in the Western Hemisphere that year. A rare case of peak and prime not aligning.
Best matches: Damiancito el Guerrero vs. Cicloncito Ramirez (1997), vs. Guerrero Maya Jr. (2011), vs. Guerrero Maya Jr. (2013), vs. Fuego (2014), vs. Metalico (2019)
(I've dropped Virus a couple of spots since the last time I worked on this list. I have a lot of respect for how hard he had to work and how good he had to be to escape the minis division and get bigtime matches on the main roster, and when I went through his career that really hit home with me. A couple years later, I'm a little more focused on how cruiserweighty his minis work is, and his lack of emotional 3v3s does bother me a little.)

6) Atlantis
Strength: The best 3v3 worker of all time, and it's not like he's lacking for great 1v1 matches.
Weakness: Had a reputation as more of a follower in the ring than a leader. Regardless of how true that is, you're not going to come away from Atlantis matches thinking that he's a genius. And I know that a lot of people grade wrestlers on how smart they are.
Peak: Top ten worker in Mexico from 1989-1992 (and looks just as good in the scant footage of 1988 Atlantis). In 1991-92 he's probably top five. In 1988-89 he was one of the best flyers in the world.
Best matches: vs. Faraon (1985), vs. Blue Panther (1991), vs. Emilio Charles (1992), vs. Blue Panther (1997), vs. Villano III (2000)
(I would rate Atlantis vs. Satanico from 1984 above most of these matches, but I'm not sure if it's a great Atlantis performance even if it is a great match. He was just twenty-one.)

Posted

Excellent post. I'll have to think about it, but right now I have Santito, Casas, and Satánico as #1 candidates. Also, I want to explore how far I can go with Sangre Chicana with all the footage we have of him. Last week I watched his retirement match against Satánico, and it's a beautiful work of art.

El Dandy is in contention for the Top 10; if you look at his versatility, his input in all the matches we have of him, and his catalog of good-to-great matches, he's just as good as anyone else.

I also want to do a deep dive of Atlantis. I love him, but I want to explore some of the criticisms I've read about him because I just don't see them. I wouldn't say he's among the 10 or 20 best wrestlers, but he's at least in the second tier for me.

Posted

El Hijo del Santo is a top 10 contender for me at the moment. He's my #11 right now (defending his slot against another four guys), but I can see him getting as high as #8.

Negro Casas might end up somewhere in my top 25. He's my #29 at the moment, but there's a huge battle from #16 to #29 and his stock is rising in my eyes.

LA Park is in my top 50, and I'm confident in him staying there. He's my #47 and I can see him gettin as high as #40. Tbh from #40 downwards my list is just a mess, big moves up and down could occur, but he's one of the guys I'm feeling more comfortable with.

Satánico and Dandy are in my 80s right now. I've never clicked with them as much as with the other three guys, but their catalogue is undenniable. Maybe Satánico gets in my top 75 because I still need to watch some of his most famous stuff from the 00s, but not farther than that.

Last, but maybe not least, Blue Panther and Atlantis are two guys I'm 99% sure I'll vote for them, but I need to rewatch some of their most acclaimed stuff first, it's been a long while. Panther is still adding to his case today (holy shit), which definitely helps. He's not reaching Satánico's level for me yet, but I believe it's a matter of when, not if.

Guys I need to dive deep before putting them on my top 100, but I definitely see their potential: Villano III, Mocho Cota, Virus, Hechicero. I simply need to watch more.

Posted

At the very least, I'm considering (not in order):

  • El Hijo del Santo
  • Negro Casas
  • El Dandy
  • El Satanico
  • Blue Panther
  • Sangre Chicana
  • Atlantis
  • Villano III
  • LA Park
  • Mocho Cota
  • Virus
  • Hechicero
  • Rush
  • Pirata Morgan
  • Black Terry
  • Fuerza Guerrera
  • Perro Aguayo
  • Jerry Estrada
  • Emilio Charles Jr
  • Gran Hamada
  • La Fiera
  • Mistico
  • MS-1

A lot of these candidates are here because of the 1980s DVDVR lucha set, which I've finished recently.

Posted

Locks so far:

Negro Casas

El Satanico

El Hijo del Santo

Atlantis

L.A. Park

 

Under consideration/need to see more of:

El Dandy

Sangre Chicana

Perro Aguayo

 

Admittedly lucha isn't my favorite style, but the best are really good.

Posted

Santo has a formula. It's a good formula, though, and it works. No matter how many times I watch a Santo match, I'm still awestruck by his signature spots. I think the other thing that adds to his mystique is that like an old-school territory attraction, he never really sticks around long enough to wear out his welcome. He'd disappear from CMLL TV then show up again and immediately prop up the match quality. And when he wasn't on CMLL TV, you had to rely on whatever footage you could find of him from the smaller Mexican promotions or overseas. 

Casas was a genius performer. I think he's a better worker than Santo when it comes to performing. Santo is a better worker technically. That said, Casas wasn't in the same boat as Santo in terms of being a masked luchador and carrying the heavyweight legacy probably in the history of wrestling. Peak Casas is an experience to behold. People went over the top with the hypebole for him in the early 2010s about being the best worker in the world for every year of his career. I'm in the mid-00s right now and he pretty much only shines when he's Santo's tag partner. 

I love Fuerza, but I can't see him as a top 5 guy. He did some great stuff but it was within the Pena camp and that was never my favorite style. Great comedy, though. I also think Virus is on the outside looking in, but there are a few matches I haven't watched yet. His best trios stuff was pure workrate lucha, as far as I recall. 

Dandy isn't championed as much as he was two decades ago. I guess two amazing prime years aren't really enough of a case. He did have some decent stuff post-prime, but you have to sift through a lot of mediocre stuff to find it. All of that 1990 stuff was new to us at the time. ironically, I was never much of a source for anything, but I did help unearth the matches against Pirata Morgan and the hair match against Emilio. 

Atlantis is a great tecnico worker, and in my opinion, the best tecnico trios match worker of all-time, but I've been watching his heel run lately, and it's not good. I'm not sure how good of a worker you are if you can't play the rudo role convincingly, especially after facing so many greats over the years. 

I guess the top three are Santo, Casas and Satanico. Satanico has his weaknesses too, but I think he's better than anyone else on the list in terms of available footage. 

 

Posted
On 8/6/2025 at 6:27 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

Dandy isn't championed as much as he was two decades ago. I guess two amazing prime years aren't really enough of a case.

I'm closer to Gramsci on this one. If you erased Dandy's 1989-90 from the record, you'd still have the Pirata match, the Casas match and feud, the Llanes match and feud, the Warrior match, the Santo/Casas threeway, the recently unearthed Monterrey Santo match and more. That's a strong top 100 candidate. With Dandy I sometimes wonder if he's hurt by the fact that his character doesn't immediately jump off the page to someone watching old matches. He's not a bombastic rudo or a masked superhero, even if he was a captivating performer to the crowds he wrestled for.

On 8/6/2025 at 6:27 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

ironically, I was never much of a source for anything, but I did help unearth the matches against Pirata Morgan and the hair match against Emilio.

Oh, cool, what's the story there?

On 8/6/2025 at 6:27 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

Atlantis is a great tecnico worker, and in my opinion, the best tecnico trios match worker of all-time, but I've been watching his heel run lately, and it's not good. I'm not sure how good of a worker you are if you can't play the rudo role convincingly, especially after facing so many greats over the years.

I don't know if that's fair. Would you hold that against Ricky Steamboat or Steve Grey? Or do you think they'd be good heels? Not totally Atlantis's fault he was booked to change sides and they weren't. He probably had gotten a bit stale when he started getting the Cenalike reactions, but he'd also been performing in the same arenas for twenty years by that point. Who else can say that? And twenty years after THAT, he's still around in the same arenas.

Posted

Clear greats:
7) Sangre Chicana
Strengths: There are wrestlers who shoot for big, theatrical selling and there are wrestlers who shoot for selling that's as realistic as possible, but Chicana's big theatrical selling was somehow as believable as anyone else's.
Weaknesses: Nothing about his style or abilities played well in a technical match.
Peak: Well, he certainly looked like one of the best in the world in the handful of matches we have from September 1983. Without consistent weekly TV from the era it's hard to say, but I'd guess that you could stretch it out through the Perro Aguayo match in early 1986, which would also cover the half-new Faraon match.
Best matches: vs MS-1 (1983), vs Faraon (November 1985), vs Perro Aguayo (1986)

8) Pirata Morgan
Strengths: Possibly the best 3v3 worker of all time. He did more with blood, both his own and his opponent's, than anyone else in wrestling.
Weaknesses: Once he turns thirty, he just isn't that good anymore. And his post-thirty work is hardly an insignificant portion of his career. He still works regularly today.
Peak: Top ten worker in Mexico from 1989-1992, probably 1988 as well. 1988 and 1989 might be the best of that run, because he captained a fantastic team in those years. Possible candidate for best in the world when he was with the Bucaneros.
Best matches: vs Dandy (1988), Bucaneros vs Brazos (1989, not the title match), vs Faraon (1990), Infernales vs Brazos (1991), vs Masakre (1992), vs Satanico (1993)

9) Espanto Jr.
Strengths: Major rudo talent who had an outstanding record in his 1v1 matches for which we have video.
Weaknesses: His three 1v1 classics are all against the same guy, who was possibly the best ever at having great matches. Two of those classics are just different variations of the exact same match. I have no idea what Espanto vs Celestial or Valente Fernandez or Super Muñeco would look like, as Espanto vs Santo matches were very much Santo matches, rather than matches that forced Santo to experiment.
Peak: It was certainly in the UWA, but the Santo feud seemed to elevate his stature a lot, so he probably reached his apex right around the time the UWA went into decline. The luchadb doesn't show him wrestling many 1v1s against non-Santo opponents until the late '80s. In 1992 he was one of the 5-10 best in the country.
Best matches: vs Hijo del Santo (1986), vs Hijo del Santo (1988), vs Hijo del Santo (1992)

10) La Fiera
Strengths: Big match worker who thrived on dramatic bumping, selling and offense. Better in Japan than a lot of his contemporaries.
Weaknesses: When you think of Fiera, what picture comes to mind? The hotshot prospect apprenticing under scuzzy rudos Chicana and Cota? The dashing tecnico brawling and bleeding in the second half of the eighties? The greasy dude in the sunglasses and leather jacket cracking his rivals with a steel chain? The veteran who could still get up for a big kick to the head or dive over the top? Fiera's career was fragmented by turns and disappearances that prevented a dominant image of him from forming, which leaves him as just a list of accomplishments to some extent.
Peak: Supposedly it was in the eighties before he started getting banged up (and with his style getting banged up was an inevitability). I'd have him in my top 5-10 for Mexico in 1992, maybe just short of best in the world consideration.
Best matches: vs Tiger Mask (1984), vs Babe Face (1986), vs Jerry Estrada (1991), vs Ultimo Dragon (1992), vs Negro Casas (1993)

11) Dr. Cerebro
Strengths: One of the best technical wrestlers in his country's history. If IWRG counts as an indy, possibly the best indy worker of all time.
Weaknesses: Like Virus, he's good at bumping and selling and making it funny, but he just doesn't have a big personality. Not a naturally dramatic worker.
Peak: I'm not sure. He was on fire from December 2000 to March 2001 with the Santo feud, and in the middle of that was a title defense against Felino that was possibly better than any of the matches he had with Santo. Likely one of the best in the country around that time. A linchpin of IWRG for the majority of that promotion's existence.
Best matches: vs Hijo del Santo (2000), vs Felino (2001), vs Hijo del Santo (February 2001), vs Multifacetico (2011), vs Virus (2015)

12) Satanico
Strengths: Great longevity, perhaps the premier bully in lucha, well rounded worker.
Weaknesses: For me it's aesthetics. There is nothing he does that is wondrous to observe for its form, and consequently he has a whole lot of matches for me that are no more enjoyable to watch than they are to read about. I expect NO ONE else to share that opinion, so I'll add that for a guy who's touted as a candidate for the top spot, only one classic match in the championship style just doesn't cut it.
Peak: Satanico would have to be uncharacteristically bad in the 1984 matches that we don't have video of to not be a candidate for best in the world that year. There are those who rate him at that level in 1990 and other years too, and maybe they're right, but even so 1984 was clearly his absolute peak.
Best matches: vs Atlantis (1984), vs Samurai Shiro (1984), vs Gran Cochisse (1984), vs Dandy (December 1990), vs Pirata Morgan (1993)

13) Emilio Charles Jr.
Strengths: The ideal rudo. Had an ineffable genuineness to him even though he was as over the top as any other rudo of the time.
Weaknesses: Sometimes too committed to the rudo cause of making the tecnico look as good as possible, and consequently he didn't feel like a threat to win in the third fall. Maybe that's fine for the promoters, but with more effort into making himself look good he'd have given fans like us some more exciting stretch runs.
Peak: In 1989 he's my pick for best worker in Mexico and one of the world's best. He was never as good again.
Best matches: vs Dandy (July 1989), vs Dandy (December 1989), vs Atlantis (1992)

14) Black Terry
Strengths: Had the people's champion appeal of 1980s Sangre Chicana, but in the more cynical setting of the 2000s-2010s indy scene. Possibly the best old worker ever.
Weaknesses: When you're in your fifties working indies, you're not going to get booked against many great workers, which limits how many classics you can put together. Like a lot of great old workers, his memorable old age run came after a midcareer slump (in Terry's case the CMLL years).
Peak: I think his peak was probably in the late aughts up through some point in the first half of the 2010s. His most revered classic came after that, though, so who knows?
Best matches: vs Multifacetico (2008), vs Aero Boy (June 2016), vs Wotan (2016)
(Maybe I should have said 2016 for his peak.)

15) Super Astro
Strengths: Astonishing to watch when he takes to the air, and his dives look like they hurt. Extremely consistent and a good entertainer. His act never gets old.
Weaknesses: The promotions with TV didn't seem interested in giving him many matches in the '90s. Not sure if he was much of a brawler.
Peak: Probably at some point in the 1980s, when he was a top middleweight contender and occasional champion. His case is more about consistency than peak or resume.
Best matches: vs Satanico (1984), vs Blue Panther (1992)
(I know that second one has gotten tagged as overrated, and once something gets that label it's hard to shake, but there was a time when Astro vs Panther was considered one of the classic old school AAA title matches. Anyway, I don't want to write out full 3v3 listings so I'll just add this and this as two of Astro's best.)

Posted
17 hours ago, cad said:

I'm closer to Gramsci on this one. If you erased Dandy's 1989-90 from the record, you'd still have the Pirata match, the Casas match and feud, the Llanes match and feud, the Warrior match, the Santo/Casas threeway, the recently unearthed Monterrey Santo match and more. That's a strong top 100 candidate. With Dandy I sometimes wonder if he's hurt by the fact that his character doesn't immediately jump off the page to someone watching old matches. He's not a bombastic rudo or a masked superhero, even if he was a captivating performer to the crowds he wrestled for.

Oh, cool, what's the story there?

I don't know if that's fair. Would you hold that against Ricky Steamboat or Steve Grey? Or do you think they'd be good heels? Not totally Atlantis's fault he was booked to change sides and they weren't. He probably had gotten a bit stale when he started getting the Cenalike reactions, but he'd also been performing in the same arenas for twenty years by that point. Who else can say that? And twenty years after THAT, he's still around in the same arenas.

Dandy jumped off the page for us when we watched the stuff originally. He was like a rock star. I kind of feel that we've reached a point where we're waiting for new matches to be discovered, then we consume them and wait for the next thing to come along. 

The Dandy/Pirata match was on a Japanese VHS tape that Jose Fernandez discovered in the Champion wrestling store in Tokyo. It was rental only, and I was able to rent it and convert it to DVD at my job at the time, which was a high level public junior high school. Little does the school know the part its AV equipment played in match culture. The Emilio stuff was on a random comp of 1989 lucha that a guy had. After I acquired it, Bihari was surprised that I had matches that weren't in circulation. Alfredo eventually sourced the stuff from Mexico, IIRC. My 15 minutes of semi-fame. 

I realize that it was a tough transition for Atlantis, but he looks lost. You can find lacklustre stuff from various points in his career, to be honest. I am a big Atlantis guy, but I think if I'm being honest, his best stuff was always against other top guys. He does hold together ragtag tecnico sides in trios matches, but it's the same routine 90% of the time. I don't know if it's because he goes on auto pilot or needs a fire lit under him, but I suppose it's also to his credit that he rises to the occasion when he gets to wrestle another great worker. 

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