Resident Evil

Well, not strictly speaking, no. But people don't pick their favorite wrestlers by throwing darts at names on the wall. It's not completely arbitrary. People base their opinions on something. And sometimes that basis might not make any sense, or might not jibe factually with what that wrestler actually did. There are both objective and subjective elements to it. Yeah, people base their opinions on personal taste. Sure they do, but to just say "personal taste" by itself means nothing. In fact judging something purely on "personal taste" by itself is logically impossible, because it still has to be personal taste in something. And then that personal taste has to reflect what's being judged in some specific way. You never see a review of anything that just says "personal taste", it's always how personal taste reflected certain specific aspects of the work being reviewed. "Personal taste" means nothing when stripped of context. But people aren't always honest about that. Or they act like their personal hangups and biases are something more than that. In my experience, people who play the "it's just my opinion" card are almost always people who got into the argument stating their personal biases like they were fact, and that anyone who disagrees with them are crazy morons. Then, when the dissenters dissect their own opinions, they fall back on that old saw. I have no problem with people who disagree with me who can be honest about their opinions and can recognize their biases as such. It's everyone else who bugs me. Again, logically impossible, because subjective opinion requires objective fact for basis. Go ahead, try and have a subjective opinion right now about something that doesn't exist in objective reality. I wouldn't even know where to start. As best I can tell, opinions on professional wrestlers are formed when a wrestler's talent - an objective quality, unless you want to tell me that there's nothing Kawada can do differently than Giant Gonzalez that will make him a better wrestler, and that opinions on both men have no reflection on what they do in the ring whatsoever - are judged by a viewer through the prism of their personal taste - a subjective quality, and even then, one that usually falls within the usual range for our species or our given culture. And while that doesn't mean there's a "right" top 10, it means that any given top 10 is going to be based on a certain standard that, to some degree, will match up to other top 10's, even if the exact results don't. If it doesn't, that doesn't necessarily make the opinions "wrong", either. But it does mean that the person stating them will need to do serious explaining so as not to be misunderstood. Ok, I agree with most of what you say here. Wrestling talent is there. It exists so in that sense it is an objective quality but it is also a subjective quality. Because of it's purpose and what people think actual talent is. The range of personal taste though I think is biiig and should be accepted and treated as such. We see it in judging wrestling matches and the wrestlers themselves. I think this has shown has up to be as fact during the last few years in the IWC.

Who does all the commentary for Mid South Wrestling?

I've heard from an opinion I trust that Danielson has improved. I'm not an expert on ROH or Danielson though because I don't watch it enough.

Well, not strictly speaking, no. But people don't pick their favorite wrestlers by throwing darts at names on the wall. It's not completely arbitrary. People base their opinions on something. And sometimes that basis might not make any sense, or might not jibe factually with what that wrestler actually did. There are both objective and subjective elements to it. Yeah, people base their opinions on personal taste. The basis they explain for their opinion may not make sense but the actual basis they do have that makes a favourite a favourite does make sense otherwise they would not have that opinion. Now wether that basis is loyalty and the bias that comes with that (see sports in general) or it's just something that's difficult to explain is up to debate. See also the basis of bias and the loyalty towards dislike that works for someone disliking a wrestler or a sports team. I want to say I have no problem with someone saying Michaels is better than Kawada. I think he is in someways. I have no problem with someone saying that the great Rip Rogers is better than Kawada. Likewise, it is fine with me in saying that Kawada is better than Michaels or Rogers. I just don't like it when people say that Kawada/insert wrestler x is better than Michaels/Rogers/wrestler y like it's a fact. Wrestling is a unique art form cnd there's too many variables/factors that go into it. It's not a pure sport with rules and regulations (despite having sport elements) where it's easier to say who's better than who. A lot of it is taste. Even a lot of the so called objective elements are I find subjective.

When it comes down to it, it's really all about personal taste. There's no real right or wrong top 10 wrestler list.

I would like access to the projects and lists forum. Thank you very much. PM'd you. -- Loss, 01/09

Kinda off topic but yeah I gotta agree with that. It's a great match and all but I'm amazed at the worship it's gotten. I think just the aura and word-of-mouth it got right it happened knocked it up to classic match-of-the-decade contender. Just as an example, I ran a Top 100 greatest matches ever on another forum about a year ago and it ended up #2 overall. Would you have a link to that list please? I'd like to see it. Thanks.

Edit

Yup, that's how I did it. There were some placings that people placed higher than they would have due to them worried about them getting looked over with others. I know I did that a little bit myself.

The first fall in this match before the ring breaks is absolutely excellent. Sweet false teasing of stuff. Anvil's double clothesline spot was worked to perfection here. Judging by what could've beeen, this looked like it was going to be a best WWF tag team match ever candidate. I really liked some of the ideas they had here. It would've been interesting to see how it shaped up to something like Edge/Mysterio Jr vs Benoit/Angle or the Hart Foundation vs Demolition from Summerslam. I noticed Bret really arguing with the reff even before the ring breaks so it was initially storyline. Than real life happens with the ring breaking and it makes for more arguing with the reff later on. I thought the match was still a great showcase overall. However, the 2nd fall is all screwed up as they couldn't do what they want to and there are some messed up spots. Even in the 3rd fall, there's some visisble awkarkness that's not present in any of their other matches. Maybe the ring was still not perfect or perhaps both teams were messed up mentally from the 3rd fall. I too would not want the match to be shown on TV though the first fall is fine. Just do a rematch and tape that. Cool to hear everyone talking.

Does anybody have a hard time watching Kikuchi matches because of the dangers of concussions?

1. How big of a WCW fan were you during the company's actual run? Humongous. They were the anti WWF. After being a fanatic WWF fan for a while, I became disgusted with it. The manager interference, all the stuff that made you roll your eyes back in your head. It was hard to keep track of my favourites like Bret, Warrior, Rooster, Haku, Perfect. I wanted a more sportish and serious feel to my wrestling. I found the WCW (thanks Bret) thanks to their Worldwide show on at about 2 or 3 oclock in the morning on NBC after Saturday Night's Main Event which myself, my brother and sister loved. We didn't have cable at that time. At that time, I think cable may have just started becoming available. So it was only once in awhile when we'd leave the tape running all night long at a relative's place that we'd get to see WCW. And when I did I was blown away by the more serious feel, the angles, the wrestling and the intensity. I saw the Great Muta tap someone out with an Indian Deathlock/bridge and it absolutely blew my mind. Muta was unbelievably awesome at the time for a 13 yr old youngster. I saw the Road Warriors for the second time ever and they did an awesome squash of a smaller team. Flair vs Gilbert. Terry Funk/Cruise commentary. Actual competitive matches. Cool music. Pillman vs Stan Lane and a tennis racket to the throat. Highlights on New Year Knockout. I remember footage of Luger going crazy with Pillman in the torture rack. Joe Pedicino knows. Sting coming down to the ring on crutches and slapping Luger to motivate him to destroy Flair. I absolutely loved it. 2. Are you a bigger fan of WCW now or then? Definitely than. I taped every nonsquash match I could find on TV. I watched WTBS completely scrambled. 3. Best Year/Period for WCW 1989 perhaps 4. Best World Heavyweight Title run Not really sure. 5. Best United States Championship run Lex Luger or Ravishing Rick Rude 6. Best Tag Team Championship run Steiners by a long shot. 7. Best Television Championship run Regal. Regal vs Steamboat/Mark Starr/Pillman. 8. Best Cruiserweight Championship run Malenko. The matches against Dragon and Rey. 9. Best feud Don't know really. I liked a lot of stuff and one doesn't stick out from the others for me. 10. Most Underrated Feud Don't know 11. Best Angle or Storyline I loved it when Steamboat came back and teamed with Dustin. WCW vs New Japan was my personal favourite. 12. Most Underrated Angle or Storyline 13. Best Booker Way too many variables 14. Wrestler who had the most surprising run I don't think anyone surprised me. 15. A worker they could have done more with Rip Rogers, Benoit and Eddie. 16. The worker who's most synonymnous with WCW for you Sting 17. The point where Flair got old About 98or 99 is when he started to slow down but he was still really good even than. 18. Best Face Steamboat 19. Best Heel Ravishing Rick Rude. Check out his last match against Sting in Japan for a fantastic example of how to be a heel. 20. Most Underrated Face Sting. 21. Most Underrated Heel Ravishing Rick Rude 22. The worker who was most effective whether they were heel or face Benoit, Eddie 23. A worker who turned (heel or face) too many times Luger of course. 24. Favourite Commentating Pairing Ventura and Ross or Tony. Depends. Cruise and Funk. 25. Lasting Memory of WCW Fun through frustration at times. Especially after 94.

Well, I can't speak for Bix, but I assume he was saying either fuck the wrestlers for being dumb enough to risk brain damage or fuck the promotion for letting them do it (probably both). Yeah, I want to spark a discussion here. Throwing some points for discussion out here, not really opinions. Who else thinks "F*ck those guys"? And if we do presumably say "F*ck those guys" for giving each other concussions, than do we say "F*ck everyone"? Because every wrestler is going to get concussions. People get concussed getting whipped into the turnbuckles. There are lots of people out there who don't wrestle ROH style and are basically screwed concussion wise. Tracy Smothers has big problems from what I hear. Maybe Jerry Lawler's bad memory is due to concussions? I'm certain his ring time didn't help there. What's the answer? What style should people be wrestling? Give an example from the past or present Is ROH too over the top? Do their wrestlers need to be trained better or differently? What about Japan or old Stampede wrestling? Too rough? Well yeah, concussions are a part of the game, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a wrestler who has never had one. The point is that they wrestled THE NIGHT AFTER getting concussions, which is just plain dumb. I see. Yeah, wrestling right after a concussion is dumb for your health but I don't think any wrestlers out there are going to stop doing that. Bret Hart's story on what happened to him inside and outside the ring was pretty scary when he got all those extra concussions after the famous one.

Well, I can't speak for Bix, but I assume he was saying either fuck the wrestlers for being dumb enough to risk brain damage or fuck the promotion for letting them do it (probably both). Yeah, I want to spark a discussion here. Throwing some points for discussion out here, not really opinions. Who else thinks "F*ck those guys"? And if we do presumably say "F*ck those guys" for giving each other concussions, than do we say "F*ck everyone"? Because every wrestler is going to get concussions. People get concussed getting whipped into the turnbuckles. There are lots of people out there who don't wrestle ROH style and are basically screwed concussion wise. Tracy Smothers has big problems from what I hear. Maybe Jerry Lawler's bad memory is due to concussions? I'm certain his ring time didn't help there. What's the answer? What style should people be wrestling? Give an example from the past or present Is ROH too over the top? Do their wrestlers need to be trained better or differently? What about Japan or old Stampede wrestling? Too rough?

Romero (squashing someone) and Danielson were back tonight. R-O-H! R-O-H! Fuck those guys. P.S. How many concussions must Danielson have had by now? 25? 30? 40? We'll never know for sure how many concussions Danielson has. The even scarier thing is how much he'll have in the future. But why "F*ck those guys"? I'm curious. This is coming from someone who was partially anti ROH (though not so much the wrestlers as they've always had talent) back in 2002

It depends on what you define large as. It gets complicated when you compare different people as everyone's different and what exactly you define an athlete as. For ex, not everyone can jump over a car like the unbelievable Wesley 2 Scoops Berry but he can't lift as much weight as a powerlifter his own size.(At least I don't think he can. Who ever knows with that superman????). There are all different physiques for atheletes out there. For ex, Bruce Lee was extrodinary strong and powerful per pound of bodweight and is someone who is built like a bodybuilder. Legendary bodybuilders envy his physique The reason he start building his muscle up because he didn't like how he was out of breath after a fight one time. Than you have some bodybuilders who aren't as strong as perhaps they look. Than you have bodybuilders like Mr. Olympia Franco Colombu and others who are as built as anyone and are as strong as anyone out there. Weightlifters - Olympics -- tend to be stronger per pound of bodyweight than anyone else. This is because of their training style Gymnastic people are great atheltes and have a very bodybuildish physique. However, it is different. The legs of sprinters are legs that bodybuilders wish they could have. Let me make myself clear. I consider all these people bodbuilders with a lot of them having large, defined muscles. It would be easy to spot these people as athletes. Anyone who builds their body in anyway is officially a bodybuilder. Personally, my bodybuilding keeps me from getting out of breath and has helped my endurance while doing demanding activities. It has helped me athletically. Oh for sure. Of course. You don't have to be physically intimidating. Some are big time and some aren't. Some strenthg and muscle always gives you an edge though compared to what you would be if you never did anything. Baseball is baseball. Boxers are bodybuilders. I actually don't watch much basketball but the point of Jordan is. that you don't have to be the Incredible Hulk in a different sport? For sure you don't. I think we may have different perceptions on what a bodybuilder is. Anyone who alters their body in in anyway to improve themselves is officially a bodybuilder. But yeah, this paragraph is pretty much right on target for the most part. But if a wrestler doesn't look fit, than it's up to them to prove they're an athlete once they're in the ring. Edit -- Just thought it was cool to note how bodybuilderish wrestling is as an activity. Wrestling is all out intensity for short periods of time which is what bodbuilding is. Also, Franco Colombu was in the Terminator movie playing the Terminator. They do have a weight and strength advantage!! but yeah they're not always better fighters. I think the WWE has allievated this some though. Look at the WWF in years past for instance.

Even if you can't get HD? I have no idea how HD works.

Between that and the Mark Henry talk, it sort of got me thinking about perception of how bodies look in wrestling. Like, there have been plenty of fat jokes made about Kobashi back when he grew a bit of a paunch. With him apparently being such a fanatic about training, obviously there was nothing he could do (naturally) to get rid of those few extra inches. But still, a lot of people gave him shit about it. Same thing with Mark Henry: despite being one of the most awesome natural athletes in wrestling history, I've seen and heard god knows how many jokes about him being hefty. Same thing with Samoa Joe now; clearly he's got all the cardio he needs, what with doing 60-minute matches and such, yet the endless Fatboy Joe comments just keep on rolling. What caused this weird situation where a lot of fans don't take a wrestler seriously unless they've got a sparkling six-pack of roidapalooza abdominals? Is it just from the decades of WWE brainwashing that the real champions all look like Hogan? Yes and no to the WWE brainwashing. We've seen time and time again what brainwashing can do for a fan audience. Just look at the current WWE. There's no doubt that the WWE's brainwashing of all real champions having to look like Hogan influences people. However, with that being said there's a certain thing called believability. Believability is actually an extremely strong part of the makebelieve world of pro wrestling. Making the fans believe in what they're seeing. Wether it's through marketing, the wrestler themselves or other things it becomes a strong factor. The media is a strong force. Well built strong, more athletic people at first glance are thought to be more superior and thus more believable. Hercules is a mythological being. His believability or fandom would not be as strong if he didn't look like the "perfect" man. Steve Reeves wouldn't be allowed to play Hercules if he didn't look like a strong man. Comic books have every one built like the great strongman Franco Colombu. But it's aslo ingrained into people. Muscle allows you to do more stuff, jump higher, run faster etc be more athletic. People know this. So when someone apparantly looks like a superman they are a superman and thus taken more seriously. Believability. But that doesn't explain Mark Henry. Henry is believable because of his strength and size. Do people actually not take him seriously because he doesn't have a six pack? I always thought it was because some people didn't like his wrestling style. Something I would disagree with because I enjoy watching Henry in the ring. And for the record -- I'm directing this at various people out there -- Mark Henry is not fat. I always HATED that when people said that. I once heard the Kobashi was fat statement before while watching a Kobashi match and I sternly disagreed. I went on about how much great shape he was in. Maybe some people just like trying to put people down or just like picture perfect physiques? I don't know. I don't want everyone to be superman or Franco Colombu. You need variety.

Impressive.

Not a problem. This post probably did more to validate my claims than anything I ever could've written. This is what your post is like. Imagine you're supposed to go play hockey. Instead of making it to the hockey rink, you're out in left field with a baseball uniform on in the wrong stadium trying to play soccor while coaching people on how to play basketball. That's not worth responding to.

Henry is a legit strongman. Very powerful.

Even a long-winded son-of-a-bitch like myself isn't going to run down your entire history of creepy workout related comments in detail. I go to the workout bench one because it's the most memorable. Suffice it to say, you've had a long history of talking about wrestlers' workouts (and one wrestler moreso than the others) that tended to read like those ads on EBay for wrestling videos, with the seller focusing on how handsome and muscular the competitors are, basically selling it as gay muscle porn. God, look at your other post: Ignoring the fact that there is nothing "natural" about what these guys do to their bodies (you cited Kurt Angle's workouts, for crying out loud), what does being "mannish" have to do with anything? You know what wrestler's workout routine I'm curious about? Mark Henry. Dude is probably the strongest guy in the history of the world. How he got there seems way more interesting to me than how Bodybuilder X became studly enough to make a lesser man melt at his very touch. Congratualtions. This on so many levels just maybe the stupidest post on the internet. Stupidity? Check Lies? Check Nonsensical? Check Assumptions of things I said which I didn't to try to make some weird point? Check No knowldege of the subject you're talking about it? Check Obsession with trying to twist things around? Check Sterotypes? Check Leading a reader to think gay is creepy? Check Attempt at putting another poster down? Check Yup, sounds like a typical S.L.L. post for the most part. I could write essays about it but to be honost I don't think you're worth the time because I'll probably just get another stupid post. And please forgive me if I hurt your feelings.

I'm really not trying to harp on this.. But.. My previous point stands. Aren't you going offtopic here? This is a Kobashi thread. Training/Working out is an essential part of prowrestling. They are forever linked. Eh, how's that creepy to want to hear some workout stories? I love to workout. I love to hear workout theories. I love to hear fascinating workout stuff. I like to see th effect of stuff. For the person themselves and for the wrestling I like to hear stories about people pushing themselves as motivation. Wether it's Bruce Lee doing 1 finger pushups or Angle's insane workouts for the Olympics or someone doing breathing squats or a dojo wrestling story -- I want to hear about it. It's just curiousity about a natural mannish thing to do. l part What's so creepy about that? Am I just supposed to like and talk about Cabbage Patch Kids or My Little Pony or makeup or something? Not sure what point Spunk was referencing, but for me, there was a certain TMI story you once divulged involving a weight bench and a workout you loved just a little too much that makes your intense fascination with the subject a bit creepy to me. Yes, because of something uncommon that happened to me is the reason I'm obsessed with exercise. And therefore, that makes me liking exercise creepy. And I guess anyone else it's happened to before too. That makes absolutely no sense on any level besides some kind of CREEPY obsession you have with being negative about everything and trying to make sleaze or negativity out of thin air with no ingredients. There's no point to your statement in this thread.