The Thread Killer

I listened to the first episode tonight, and I thought it was excellent. It turned out exactly the way I hoped it would. Conrad was prepared and much more professional than he is on STW and WHW. Eric did claim he didn't remember quite a few things, but he also remembered quite a bit too. He provided some interesting details and insights I had never heard about the formation of the nWo. I really enjoyed this a lot.

Apparently Bret Hart brokered the peace, a condition of which was a public apology by Harry Smith.

That's an excellent point and Jericho is an excellent example. Chris Jericho is kind of the anti-Roman, isn't he? He's a guy who manages to stay fresh and relevant by pretty much constantly reinventing himself. There is no way Jericho would still be as popular as he is right now if he was still working the exact same character he had back when he first made his WWF debut all those years ago - or even if he had stuck with one of his previous incarnations. His frequent breaks from the business help him sure, but he is constantly evolving. It's actually quite amazing that he has done that right under their nose, yet nobody there has looked at him as an example and thought to apply some of those creative techniques to Roman Reigns.

I meant Gail Kim deserved to be famous like the current WWE Women's Division but also, it's kind of sad to me that she isn't part of the current WWE scene because she would have been able to showcase her talents against a higher quality of opponent than she did during her WWE run and in TNA. And also, she would have presumably made a hell of a lot more money had she been in WWE now. Sadly, she was just a bit ahead of her time.

I have to admit, I am looking forward to this. I listened to a few minutes of the preview clip, and Conrad sounds a lot more formal and organized than he does on STW, and miles apart from his shtick on WHW. That was a concern of mine. It's probably more formal because it's the premiere episode and I imagine with time and comfort he'll relax, but I liked the brief clip that I heard. Hopefully Conrad will use his research (which he apparently has people doing for him now) to call Eric out when he's B.S.ing, but he won't revert into dickjoke mode like he does on WHW. Like I said earlier, I actually like Bischoff in this setting from what I have seen. I'm going to give it a good chance, and the timing couldn't be better because I am rapidly getting tired of STW.

Yeah, I found it. From just a couple of weeks ago on "Fightful.com" Comments like that, I'm not sure she'd be welcomed back in WWE which is a shame. She deserves to be part of the recognition the women are finally getting, she was ahead of her time in that regard in WWE.

I could be wrong, but I think I read something somewhere about how Gail Kim made an appearance on a podcast recently and had less than flattering things to say about Stephanie and the WWE women's revolution. I'd have to search for it, but I'm pretty sure that Gail has decided now that she's retired she isn't going to hold back her opinions.

Loss and SomethingSavage make interesting points about the need for character evolution - how Reigns hasn't evolved and how some of the classic guys never did or never needed to. The only arguments I can see to those points are that the classic guys seemed to have characters that worked for them, so they didn't have to change. Reigns isn't really working now. Secondly, guys in the 70's and 80's weren't ridiculously overexposed the way they are now. Any of those big names would have become stale if they had been on a three hour show once a week in addition to monthly Pay Per Views. That was what was great about the territory system. Once a guy got stale he could go somewhere else for a few months, then when he came back he was fresh. Guys like Flair and Andre were constantly moving around. I know Flair had JCP, but I don't think he was being overexposed on TV the way Reigns is. Also, Flair would have been better if he had gotten a haircut and changed his name to Spartacus.

Seriously? I had no idea they were making that much money from this thing. If I am not mistaken, isn't Wrestlemania pretty much the financial cornerstone of their entire fiscal year? If this show made more than that...I guess we'd better get used to shows in Saudi Arabia.

Excellent point, and I think when considering that information Loss, it can lead to only one of two possibilities. Either WWE is so reliant on their written, carefully scripted promos that they are now unwilling to let the actual character of the WWE superstar be shown unless it is one that they created...or poor Roman Reigns has Brad Armstrong syndrome. I often wonder that if Steve Austin of 1995/1996 came to the WWE of today, would Stone Cold ever have been born? I doubt it. Back then, they still allowed guys to shoot from the lip with their promos. Hence the "Austin 3:16" promo. Today, Vince would have sent Austin out there with a script, and I don't think the fans would have showed up to Raw the next day with signs that said "THE guy 3:16." I do believe that material is more believable if the guy speaking it actually thought it up himself. Maybe Roman isn't allowed to express his personality. I consider the promos he did against John Cena. They were hardly "shoot" promos but I think Reigns was getting legit pissed off that Cena was being allowed to go out there and tee off on him. I know what Reigns said was scripted, but you could tell he sure meant parts of it and - surprise - he came across as legitimate and convincing. It's such basic Pro Wrestling 101. If a guy is good on the microphone, let him talk. If he isn't, give him a mouthpiece. Vince's bizarre decision to stop using managers never made sense to me. Hell, in the 80's the WWF was crazy with managers. Aside from Jake Roberts and Roddy Piper, if you were a heel - you had a manager whether you needed one or not. Now, Lesnar gets Heyman...everybody else gets a script written by somebody who probably never even watched wrestling to begin with. OR... I have heard from a bunch of different guys (including Brian James himself) that backstage, Brad Armstrong was the coolest, funniest guy you ever wanted to meet. He was apparently hilarious, and Road Dogg went so far as to claim that when the cameras weren't rolling, Brad was much livelier and funnier than he was. But get him in front of a microphone or camera and he became like a deer in the headlights. (Which was a shame, because when you consider his work, imagine if Brad could cut a promo?) I have heard something similar about Dean Malenko of all people. Apparently, he was a total cut-up and hilarious backstage, but he froze up doing promos and became The Iceman. Could be that is the case with Reigns, but I'm more inclined to think they just don't want to take his training wheels off. Because if you can talk for yourself, then what does WWE need with a bunch of writers and writers assistants?

I understand why some of you think Reigns is pretty much ruined as a character right now, and for the most part I agree with you. However, I do think he would be fairly easy to salvage with a reboot. And there are obviously people who work for WWE right now who are capable of pulling such a reboot off. For proof of this theory, I submit the case of Andrade Cien Almas. I remember in early 2016 when it was announced that La Sombra had signed with NXT, a lot of people were excited. I assume that was based on his work in CMLL and New Japan, which I did not personally see. But based on his reputation, I was intrigued to see him. They unmasked him, which I didn't see as a big deal, since we know that (aside from Rey) WWE doesn't really like masked wrestlers. He finally made his debut in June 2016, and I think it is safe to say the consensus was that his debut was disappointing. Whatever the "it factor" is, Almas did not seem to have it. It became to obvious to everybody that he wasn't getting over, so by the fall they turned him heel, but that didn't really seem to help him much either. He pretty much floundered in NXT from the fall of 2016 all the way until the Spring/Summer of 2017. If I remember correctly, Zelina Vega made her first appearance in July 2017 and then he was taken off the air for about a month. When Andrade Cien Almas returned with Zelina Vega as his manager in August 2017, that is when he became the Almas that we all know and love now. But if you look at the dates, he pretty much floundered in NXT for over a year. He was so unremarkable that I remember Triple H making reference to the fact that he wasn't adapting well to the NXT/WWE style in an interview, and they actually made his mediocre, underwhelming and disappointing performance part of his gimmick. They had the announcers referencing the fact that he had come into NXT with high hopes but had failed to impress. Look at him now. Almas has been involved in two legit MOTYC's so far in 2018 and his pairing with Vega is viewed by most as not only being a highlight, but a refreshing change to the entire dated wrestler/valet dynamic. Look at their performance during his match with Aleistar Black at the most recent Takeover. This from a guy that a year prior had been struggling in a feud with No Way Jose. My point is, somebody in NXT saw the problem, identified it, and came up with a plan to change it. They saw that Almas had all the raw materials, but wasn't getting over as he was being presented. They pulled him back, tweaked his character, repackaged him and sent him back out there - and it worked. There is no doubt whatsoever that it worked. Anybody who has seen Almas with Vega perform since last summer can't possibly confuse him with uninspired guy who was working the NXT undercards in the Winter of 2017. All this, and Almas doesn't even speak English well. (By the way - I say all this about Almas, being fully aware of the fact that now he has been "called up" to the main roster, whoever is in charge of making creative decisions about him either probably didn't see what made him succeed in NXT, or won't care. They'll give him a "main roster" makeover, I'm sure. He'll likely be presented as a babyface, feuding with Shelton Benjamin, and split up from Vega in less than six months.) If WWE has the resources and tools to reboot and repackage a guy like Almas, who can't even really deliver a solid promo - what could they do with Reigns, who has all the tools? His work is solid in most cases, to very good - depending on the quality of his opponent. (And assuming he can be taught to stop repeatedly making that ridiculous motion like he's "loading" his arm before using his stupid Superman punch that he does way too often.) His promos are decent, and serviceable, if unremarkable. With some changes and a couple of weeks off television, he could easily be salvaged. They could shave his head. They could take the stupid plastic Kevlar vest off him. They could put him in tights. They could give him a manager or valet. They could make him go silent and stop delivering promos altogether. They could get rid of his theme music, which at this point makes people boo automatically like Pavlov's dogs. Hell, they could modify or change his name. They could do any number of things to change him and represent him, and then make him a top guy again. Let's remember, this is a company that successfully took one half of the APA who was midcard at best, put an entirely new gimmick on him and made him the WWE Champion in a very quick turnaround. My point is Roman Reigns could easily still be a top guy and there is obviously somebody in WWE who knows how to do something like that, because they did it (albeit on a much smaller scale) with Almas. Hell, they might be in the process of doing the exact same thing with Nakamura as we speak. It can be done, I just don't know if it will be done. I don't know if they have the will to do it. Also, if rumors are to be believed, Vince himself books Reigns. I doubt it was Vince who repackaged Almas or Nakamura. Vince seems to be getting more and more oblivious and more and more stubborn with age. I don't know if his attitude is becoming "if they won't accept him as I present him, then they won't accept him at all." I've never liked the tried and true WWE talking point about their best characters being "themselves with the volume turned up to 10." I've heard Stone Cold, The Rock, and Triple H claim that in interviews and it has to be a WWE created buzz-phrase. But if there is even a shred of truth to it, I don't think they've applied to it to Roman Reigns. I don't think the character he portrays on television is close to the guy he is in "real life." I think he is probably an alpha male type, sure. But I don't think he is much of a talker and them putting him out there and having him spout off ridiculous catch phrases like "I'm THE guy" is doing him any favors. If they aren't going to let him be him, then they need to do a much better job of finding a character that he can portray convincingly. If they do that, I think he can still be presented as a top guy. Maybe even "the" guy. But not the way they are doing it now, and I don't know if they even see what needs to be done to change things.

El-P, you must be either a glutton for punishment or a very determined man. First you sat through the entire end run of WCW, and now you're voluntarily watching TNA in chronological order - of your own free will. I don't know if I could do that in my spare time, knowing already ahead of time how much of it was pure shite.

I agree. Neither of them has accomplished much of note so far in NXT, but they seem to have impressed people with those matches against each other. (And so they should have, because those matches were great.) I keep hoping that this team of theirs somehow breaks through to the next level. It could be that segment was used just to put the Undisputed Era over as big heels - but I don't know why Burch needed to come out for that. They could have got the point across by just having Cole, O'Reilly and Strong beat up Lorcan. When Burch tried to make the save, I really hoped that signaled a possible angle/title match for Burch and Lorcan against O'Reilly and Strong. Another reason I thought that might be the case, was just by considering the NXT Tag Team division and looking at who is available. With the AoP now gone to Raw, you have to consider Heavy Machinery the #1 face Tag Team in NXT, but they're clearly heading into a feud with War Raiders. I guess it would make sense to predict that Bate, Seven and Dunne might now feud with the Undisputed Era as a stable? Other than that, who are the logical contenders to O'Reilly and Strong? I don't see TM-61 or The Street Profits being at that level yet. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Burch and Lorcan getting the shot.

Somewhere in the neighborhood of a butt-load. We'll know when the Q2 results come out in August, but yes it's probably at least a butt-load and possibly even a fuck-ton. I'm not a mathematically inclined person, nor am I good with numbers - so I really don't appreciate Log and sek lording their fiscal knowledge over me by using all these technical terms that a layperson like myself can't understand. It's obvious they both have a better understanding than I of big finance, and they're using it to make me feel stupid. Elitists.

If what happened after the Cole/Lorcan match this week means that we're getting a Tag Title match between The Undisputed Era and Burch & Lorcan, then I for one am going to have a joygasm.

Thank goodness somebody else finally sees what I was seeing. I totally don't get the praise for those two. Poorly acted and unnatural is a perfect description of the vibe I've gotten from those two since their debut in NXT. To me (and this is just my opinion) they've always come across like they're pretending to be Professional Wrestlers - just goofy and fake, and not genuine at all. I was really surprised they got called up as soon as they did, since I thought they probably needed another good 9 months to a year of promo training in NXT. Whenever they came on screen in NXT I always had the overwhelming urge to not watch them. If you look at the difference between them and somebody like Alexa Bliss it's like night and day. It's times like this that the loss of Dusty Rhodes and his promo classes in NXT are probably most evident. I don't think you can teach charisma, you either have it or you don't. But you can teach convincing promo delivery, and those two just don't have it yet, in my opinion.

Fascist.

You're right. I'm clearly guilty of deformation. I deformed your myral chorchiture.

I was working yesterday and I work 12 hour shifts, so I missed the entire show live. I recorded it on my DVR, and was planning on watching it later. I was originally going to avoid spoilers, but I decided against that approach and checked out this thread. Based on the general opinions expressed in this thread (about the quality of the wrestling) I may give this show a pass. Sounds like the only good things I missed were Jinder Mahal taking a phantom bump and Titus deciding to try and slide into home plate, both of which are available in handy gif form. Having checked this thread out, (and sadly...Twitter) I have to say I was mildly surprised at the level of moral outrage over this show. Some of you people sure do care a lot about...stuff. (Well, you care enough to complain about it on the internet at least.) I'm probably older than a lot of people here, and as a result I have probably become jaded. I personally don't really care all that much where they run shows, and obviously all Vince McMahon and WWE care about is money - so of course they had no issue doing this show. It made them a lot of money. I'm trying to come up with an example of a time Vince or his company did something "good" that wasn't about making money or portraying a positive public image for their company, and I can't think of one. If the whole Moolah/Snickers debacle taught anybody anything, it's that if you can figure out a way to hit him in his wallet, he'll start caring about the "issue" very quickly. Otherwise, all the outrage seems to be wasted energy to me...but what do I know? If getting morally outraged over stuff like this makes you feel good, do your thing.

I watched about half of the network show this week (I guess if the acronym for the podcast is "STW" then for the network show it's SETW?) but I gave up on it. For somebody who has heard most of the original podcasts, this week's network show was really just a rehash of stuff they've already covered in much greater detail elsewhere. I know they are trying to appeal to a new audience but for people who have been following them for a while there really isn't much reason to watch if they're going to be re-visiting stuff. Also (and maybe this is just me) I'm finding the banter and interaction between Bruce and Conrad to be much more forced and less genuine sounding on the network show, as if they're trying too hard or something. I'll be curious if the show does as well this week as it did the first week. Glad they got the video issues sorted out, though. I already know next week's show will be a hard pass for me. I really don't need to hear Bruce Prichard pontificating about how great Shawn Michaels is (or was in 1996) for another two hours. I couldn't survive the six hours they devoted to him from 93-95 so I know for sure I can't do any more. No way, no how. I haven't been able to get through the entire RVD episode either, so maybe I'm starting to experience STW burnout. I may try the 92 Rumble watch-along they released this weekend as a YouTube exclusive bonus show, since that was a great Rumble. Then again, I still haven't recovered from their 87 Royal Rumble watch-along, which even Conrad admits was awful.

The shodate Manifesto 1) Post a comment which is clearly intended to bring attention to yourself. 2) Try and bring politics into your post - even if the topic being discussed has nothing to do with politics. 3) Make sure your comment is irrelevant and does not contribute to the discussion. 4) Make your comments brief, cryptic and pointless. 5) Do not use proper grammar/sentence structure (despite the fact that you have proven that you're capable of it.) 6) When people react (the way you clearly want them to) act indignant and morally wounded, as if you can't imagine why somebody could possibly be so cruel to you. Remember, you are the wronged party and are clearly the victim of unjust persecution. People are being mean to you for having opinions, not for being a semi-literate blatant troll. 7) Repeat this process in every possible thread. 8) There will be no repercussions for your behavior, because a vocal minority of other members at PWO enjoy your gimmick. They are your core audience so continue to play to them as much as possible, because Lord knows your act isn't getting old at all.

It's funny, when I first saw this thread I thought Daniel Bryan hands down. Then I realized that I really wasn't following WWE all that closely during the years Jeff Hardy had his World Title wins. From the sounds of this thread, he was a lot bigger than I ever realized...so I had to vote "I dunno."

This.

Here is the story as I understand it, based on witness accounts. A lot of it is based on things said back and forth on Twitter, so of course that means it's likely bullshit, but some of the narrative seems to fit... Jake Roberts was friends with Dynamite going back to his days in Calgary. From the numerous interviews I have seen and heard, Jake didn't have an issue with Dynamite, quite the opposite. He has said Dynamite is the best wrestler he ever saw. Hell, according to Dynamite, Jake gave him his first ever pill, a dose of amphetamines so he could go one hour with Nelson Royal. I think Jake Roberts pretty much took Dynamite's side when the Bulldogs broke up. If you believe Dynamite, Davey Boy left Dynamite on the eve of an All Japan tour to go back to the WWF without telling him. Also, Davey Boy and Diana Hart trademarked the name British Bulldog and wouldn't let DK use it. One thing I have heard Jake say in a couple of interviews is that Davey Boy Smith was a "shit disturber" behind the scenes, in that he would try an instigate fights between other wrestlers by spreading rumors, etc... "Hey did you hear so-and-so said this about you" kind of stuff. (Other wrestlers have said this about Davey Boy too, he loved to stir it up.) I also saw Jake once call Davey Boy a "dumbass." Which to be fair, even people who loved him have said that Davey Boy wasn't exactly the sharpest. Point is, Jake Roberts has never been shy about praising Dynamite and burying Davey Boy in his multiple shoot interviews and podcast appearances. Rumor has it that Jake Roberts, Davey Boy Jr. and The Honky Tonk Man were all at that big convention the weekend of Wrestlemania, signing autographs. According to several witnesses, HTM went to DBJ and told him all the stuff Jake has been saying about his father, and got him all wound up. DBJ then went to Jake's booth, and asked to speak to him. Jake refused. He challenged him to step outside and fight for the things Jake had said about his father. Jake refused and told him to begone, using profanity in the process. DBJ then threw a cup of hot coffee in Jake's face, and left. The police apparently investigated, but Jake declined to press charges. The cops are apparently pursuing the issue regardless. If you are to believe witnesses, Jake is just as pissed at HTM as he is DBJ. HTM and Jake have had heat ever since Jake's WWF documentary "Pick Your Poison" in which Jake blamed HTM's infamous Snake Pit guitar shot as being a factor in his becoming a drug addict. (Which is clearly bullshit, since he was abusing drugs before he ever got to the WWF, but whatever.) The two have been sniping at each other publicly ever since. Ironically, HTM pulled a play out of Davey Boy Smith's own playbook by instigating the fight just to screw with Jake, from the sounds of it. Apparently when the incident went down, HTM hauled ass and was nowhere to be seen. In closing, shodate is an idiot.