The Thread Killer

I disagree with your opinion that the show hasn't changed, and I disagree that 205 Live was as good as the CWC, but I concede your point regarding Neville. His reign was not only a high point for 205 Live and the Cruiserweight Division, it was a high point for all of WWE. I agree his matches with Gallagher and Aries were outstanding, but I guess I kind of lumped them in as WWE PPV matches in my mind, not 205 Live. One of my issues with 205 Live was Gran Metalik's pointless banishment, and the overuse of Noam Dar, Tony Nese and the other Daivari. The division did badly need an influx of new blood, and it appears to be getting it - starting with Itami, and it appears to be growing on a weekly business with this tournament. If Gargano ends up here, he could easily carry this show on his back like Neville and Enzo did. I do wish they'd tape the show at Full Sail or somewhere else, but I understand why they do it after Smackdown logistically.

I don't always buy everything I read online for obvious reasons, but this story about a change of control and a in direction is making sense, especially if you watch the show. I tuned into 205 Live the week Enzo was fired, and was very surprised about the quality of the matches. It was a marked improvement over the last time I had seen the show. The matches (with the exception of Itami/Gallagher) seemed different somehow. Faster paced and more action, I couldn't figure it out. Now they are saying that there has been a change in creative and the CW's are being told to just go out and do their thing unencumbered - the timing lines up and it makes sense. If you don't believe the theory, go back and watch an older episode of 205 Live (if you dare) and then watch one from the past couple of weeks, and you tell me if you don't notice a significant difference. My complaint with 205 Live was always that it existed because of the CWC but seemed nothing like the CWC. That first show after Enzo and the shows since seem much more in the spirit and style of the CWC. If it really is true, thank goodness. I will see that there have been more high quality "must see" matches on 205 Live in the past three weeks than I can remember in the entire run of the show so far. Maybe it will finally end up being the wrestling focused alternative I always hoped it would be, rather than bland generic matches with plenty of restholds, and pointless backstage skits. I'd love to see this brand succeed. I don't know if there is a big enough audience for it, but I hope there is.

Sure El-P, if you have time I would do the watch-along for the Royal Rumble 1988. It's fun. It's not their best episode (I personally think Episode 46 on WWECW might get that nod) but it's entertaining enough. I would NOT recommend the Survivor Series 1987 watch-along episode. There is nothing all that interesting revealed, Bruce and Conrad do a fair bit of bickering (and not in an entertaining way either, just annoying) and at times there are actually periods of silence where they obviously can't find anything to say. And having watched SS87 along with them, I can say honestly that sumbitch was BORING. When Bruce and Conrad are talking about how bad the show is, (not the PPV but their podcast) you know it's bad.

I did the watch-along episode for Royal Rumble 1988 last night. I was reluctant at first because the Survivor Series 87 episode was pretty awful. I am not all that big on the watch-along shows in general, since I like to listen to shows when I am doing other things and don't like to be stuck sitting watching a monitor while I listen. I understand why Conrad pretty much has to go that route with Tony on What Happened When, but I wasn't thrilled when they did it on Something To Wrestle. Hell, even Conrad said during the watch-along for Survivor Series that it was the worst show they had done since "Austin Walks Out." I found this episode a lot more entertaining. Firstly because the entire show wasn't a watch-along, just the Rumble itself was. Secondly, they seemed to be a lot more funny and relaxed the second time around. There was a couple of things I found surprising about this episode. Firstly, the fact that Bruce openly and freely admitted that the main reason they even had the Royal Rumble 1988 was to counter-program JCP and the Bunkhouse Stampede. Everybody knows it is true, but that is the kind of thing that in the past Bruce has tried to deny or downplay. The way he made it sound, USA wanted them to do a show, they wanted to have a televised contract signing between Hogan and Andre, and this seemed to be a great way to do that, and screw with JCP at the same time. I agree with Cox when he says the actual Rumble almost seems like an afterthought. The second thing I found amusing upon seeing the Rumble again, was how little was made of The Ultimate Warrior. He had just barely joined the company I guess? He appears in the match, exchanges some pretty lame looking chops with some guys, and gets eliminated. He's pretty much a non-factor. You could tell that they didn't know what they had at that point. Funny sidenote, by the way. I live in the Toronto area. This show was filmed in Hamilton, which is pretty close to Toronto (within easy driving distance.) It was shown live in the United States on the USA Network, but even though it was shot in Canada...we couldn't watch it. The USA Network wasn't available in Canada at that time. The WWF was red hot in the Toronto area (remember, 74,000 fans had gone to see "The Big Event" when Hogan fought Orndorff just a couple of years prior) so it was a bit of a slap in the face that the WWF would film a major show like that in the area but not make it available for viewing until it came out in VHS.

I have a question... I use the site https://art19.com/ to keep track of most of my favorite podcasts and access the archives. They had homepages for Something to Wrestle, E & C's Pod of Awesomeness, Jim Cornette's Drive Thru, and What Happened When. Basically, I think they had archives for anybody who was hosted by MLW and not Podcast One. I found this site really convenient because the archives were listed and you didn't have to be a member to get to them. Also, I don't use iTunes so for me, this was pretty much the best way to get to all my favorite podcasts. I know the individual shows must be okay with this site, because in Conrad Thompson's case, the URL for SomethingToWrestle.com actually redirected to art19. The site is still up, but all the individual pages and archives appear to have vanished since the weekend. I checked art19's Twitter feed and there doesn't appear to be a mention of any problems. Does anybody here have any idea what is up? If art19 is no longer an option, does anybody have a suggestion regarding a good way to access podcast archives? Most of my favorite shows have YouTube Channels so I may end up going that route. Just wondering if anybody knew anything...

That was my thought too. There is no way there could ever be a real payoff to this, so why do it? Then again, this is WWE creative. I've given up trying to figure out why they do (or in many cases, don't do) things. In furtherance of this issue, Corey Graves took a thinly veiled shot at Booker on Twitter today.

I heard Corey Graves on Edge and Christian's podcast and while he was complimentary to Booker, it was also pretty obvious that he was making fun of his commentary and if you read between the lines, he was implying that Booker isn't all that great at his job. You could even make an argument that it sounded like Graves was implying that Booker isn't all that bright. Lord knows, he wouldn't be the first person to imply that. Here is the clip from Booker's podcast, it's around 4:00 minutes. After hearing it, I lean towards thinking there may be legit anger there (at least on Booker's part.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOSLKrXfrLk

So apparently on his podcast, Booker T claimed that he has a beef with Corey Graves. He apparently blames Graves for his being removed from the Raw announce team, and says if he ever sees Corey on the street, he's coming for him, sucka. Is this a work, and leading up to something? Is it legit, and if so has anybody else heard anything about it via a reliable source?

I actually watched 205 Live last night for the first time in a very long time. I was curious if they were going to announce the new GM and the plans for the title. (Which they didn't, but whatever.) I kept watching because Gran Metalik was wrestling in the opener and I love that guy. The opening 6 man was okay. Nothing exceptional, but solid action. Then Hideo Itami fought Jack Gallagher. Oh boy. First off, I don't know why Gallagher is wrestling in street clothes, just because he is a heel now. Secondly, I don't know what happened, because the last time I paid any attention to Gallagher (which would have been during his angle with Neville, I guess) he seemed pretty popular and was getting some noticeable crowd reactions. We're not talking Road Warrior levels here, but he wasn't getting crickets, either. Now he is getting nothing. And I don't think it's just because he turned heel, either. He's not getting a negative reaction, he's getting nothing. I think this heel turn was a dumb idea, personally. I don't think people are going to buy Jack Gallagher as a "bad ass." Finally, I figured even though he has lost a step or two, KENTA would still be able to have a good match with Gallagher, considering the talent of both guys. Not so much. This match was boring, and the crowd was dead. There were some pretty loud BORING chants. I don't know if it is because of Gallagher's heel turn, I don't know if it's because KENTA has really gone downhill worse than I realized, or what the problem is...but this match was not so good. By the end of this, the crowd was pretty much out of it, so I thought. I kept watching, because I really like Cedric Alexander. I wasn't disappointed. Man, Cedric Alexander and Mustafa Ali did something I have very rarely seen two wrestlers do. They pulled a dead crowd back to life. By the end of this match, there were "This is awesome" chants, and loud cheers. On 205 Live! I was pretty shocked, to be honest. This was definitely the best match I remember seeing by the WWE Cruiserweights in a very, very long time and was probably the best non-CWC. non-PPV Crusierweight match I've seen in WWE. Definitely the best 205 Live match I remember seeing. I expected it to be okay, maybe even good...but this exceeded my expectations. This was a very, very good match. I am going to watch it again, because I am not sure if I am over-rating it because it surprised me. Sometimes, when a match I wasn't expecting too much from exceeds expectations, I tend to overrate them. So I want to watch it again, but if you can I would go out of your way to check this match out. It was damn good.

That was awful. I haven't watched Raw in months, but I thought I'd check it out due to all the nostalgia acts and it being the go-home show for the Rumble. That show was a mess. If I was a fan who bought a ticket for the Manhattan Center I'd be wanting my money back too.

I thought the Rockers episode was somewhat dry, but I did end up laughing when Conrad recapped the number of times Marty Janetty was fired and re-hired. Even Bruce said only The Iron Sheik nears Marty's record for comings and goings. Also thought the 98 Royal Rumble episode from this past week was pretty good. I found it humorous that they spent 75% of the episode discussing the episodes of Raw before and after the actual PPV, and very little time re-capping the actual show. Next week is a watch-along, which I will probably skip.

Gotta love Vince being able to turn "Thank You Vince" chants into "Asshole" chants on a dime.

I would like to officially reverse my position on Enzo living his gimmick.

I am a big fan of the Breaking Kayfabe series, as I discussed earlier in this thread. I actually paid for the episodes with Sabu and New Jack, but you couldn't pay me to watch that crap. He's basically trolling people at this point. At least Oliver calls him on it, to a degree.

Exactly. If there was ever a guy in this "new era" that lives his gimmick, it's Enzo A'more. I think wrestling could use more of that, actually.

I always thought Seth Rollins kind of deserved the shit he got for being reckless and injuring people (including himself, I guess.) He broke Cena's nose, he gave Sting the turnbuckle bomb that ended his career and threw Finn Balor into the barricade and fucked up his shoulder so bad he was out for 9 months. (Which looking back, kind of ended up being the end of Balor's main event push.) I know "it's not ballet" and accidents happen, and okay once or even twice is a mistake but three big injuries involving the same guy? Not sure I buy that as a coincidence. All three guys (Cena, Sting and Balor) were quick to absolve Rollins of blame, which seems to be standard practice...but Bret Hart was one of the guys who came out and said he thought Rollins was too reckless.

If these news reports are to be believed, Paige's in-ring career is over.

WWE is saying that Joe's injury is a plantar fascia rupture, which is not good news. That's the tissue on the bottom of his foot. There is nothing that can be done surgically to repair that from what I have heard. It is a very slow healing injury. He'll be able to walk normally within a few weeks I would imagine, but athletic competition could be months away. I would think the Rumble is definitely out for him, and Mania might also be off the table which would be heartbreaking, since he didn't get to compete last year either.

I was really into in e-fedding for a long time. I was a member of The Shoot Project for years, and ran my own fed for a couple of years as well. I always played in feds that used original characters, not established or existing wrestlers. I handled the same original character for around 10 years, believe it or not. My experience was that you need a committed roster of around 25 players to make a fed workable and it got to the point where that got impossible to maintain after a while. You need players who are willing to put in the work, and not just write promos but help with matches, etc. Most of the people I wrote with "grew out of it" and fell off. The ones who are left are still with a fed called the EWA and I've come close a few times to picking it up again with them, but I never have. I love writing fiction and I love wrestling so it always was a great creative outlet for me, I miss it at times. I don't know if I could do it again due to my weird work schedule (I work a 12 hour continental shift pattern) so I don't know if I could meet the deadlines that usually come with e-fedding.

I have no proof of this of course, so it's pure speculation on my part, but I'd tend to call bullshit on that story. From everything I have ever read or heard, Raymond was the Rougeau Brother that you did not want to fuck with. I am 99.9% sure I remember hearing that Raymond actually had some amateur boxing experience as well. Even if Dynamite Kid and Raymond got into a fight, I don't think DK would have "cleaned Raymond's clock." I think Jacques was the one with the big mouth who was more liable to get negative attention from the other wrestlers. Not to mention as Phil pointed out, the Bulldogs were the ones who were universally known for shaving people's heads and eyebrows and stealing and destroying their property and clothes. Sounds fishy to me. Considering all the time that has passed, you would have figured that story would have come out by now if it was true, like most locker room fight stories tend to. (Dick the Bruiser vs. Brody, Spivey vs. Adonis, etc.) Not to mention, I am sure DK would have gladly crowed about it in his book, since he had no issues burying the Rougeaus or talking about what a big badass he was. If it had happened, that is where he would have talked about it.

Yep. Really, the whole Montreal crew story is fascinating and remains a story to be told (not sure the Pat Laprade book talks about this part of the story, I haven't read it). An 8 Part mini-series called "Bad Blood" about the Montreal Mafia recently aired here, starring Anthony LaPaglia and Paul Sorvino. It was interesting and I really liked it. It didn't touch any of the wrestling stuff, but it did get into just how much the mafia had their fingers in a ton of pies in Quebec. I should check out that book, assuming it's in English. My French is so bad it would take me about a year to read it, otherwise.

Apparently SPS and I answered the same post at the same time. I never heard that the mob actually had Billington's address. Creepy.

Close, but you're confusing two of his (many) backstage feuds. He was trained in England by a guy named Ted Bentley. After Dynamite made it big, he brought his trainer backstage and introduced him around to all the boys. Apparently, everybody in the locker room was very nice and accommodating (DK makes specific mention of Andre being nice, IIRC) with the exception of one Brutus Beefcake, who was rude, refused to give an autograph and blew Mr. Bentley off. Dynamite knew that he and Davey Boy had a cage match against The Dream Team coming up, and he was apparently planning on exacting terrible revenge in the cage, but before that could happen he suffered the back injury that pretty much ruined his career, in a match against Orton and Muraco. With Jacques, DK claimed that Vince asked him not to retaliate out of fear of the Rougeau's "making a phone call." Billington claims he agreed under the condition that the Rougeau's paid for the dental work he needed to fix his teeth. Raymond agreed, so the beef was supposedly squashed at that point, and after that the two teams were kept far, far away from each other. In his book, he makes it sound like the Bulldogs left the WWF not that long afterward, but I'm not sure how true that is. I know the Iron Sheik (I know, I know) claimed in one of his many shoots that after Jacques knocked out Dynamite's teeth, he lost a lot of the shine on his reputation as a tough guy in the locker room, which bothered him tremendously. I remember a lot of other wrestlers saying he was never the same again after that, because he had been such a bully, but Jacques knocked his teeth out and he never retaliated, so it really bothered him and drove him nuts.

I know about the stories of Dino Bravo getting whacked for smuggling cigarettes and not paying his tribute. (I love mafia lingo.) I also know about International Wrestling and Gino Brito being supposedly controlled by the Cotroni family. I was referring to Jacques and Raymond's uncle Jean (aka. Johnny) Rougeau being in bed with the Cotroni family when he used to promote All Star Wrestling. The rumors of Rougeau family mafia ties were so strong that after Jacques knocked out all of Dynamite Kid's teeth, Vince McMahon reportedly discouraged Billington from taking their real life dispute any further, out of fear about what he had heard about the Rougeau "family ties." (Pat Patterson was still Vince's right hand man back then, and he knew damn well about the rumors in Montreal.) Billington talks about that in his book, and several other wrestlers have alluded to it or come right out and said it in shoot interviews over the years. If I am not mistaken, in his 2004 RF Video shoot, Jacques pretty much admits it. All I'm saying is that if a member of the Rougeau family made money in business, especially construction or real estate, I'd wonder where the money came from. But I wouldn't wonder that out loud in the wrong company.

He's a Rougeau. Mob ties really help financial security too. Not that I think the Rougeau family is tied into the Montreal Mafia. I would never ever say that. (I live within driving distance and don't need a visit from Rock Machine MC.)