The Thread Killer

Sentence I thought I'd never type: "Thank God...it's Byron Saxton!"

Thank you for sternly lecturing us on how important it is to remember the rules of a Steel Cage Match, Michael Cole.

So apparently, that match was some kind of public relations thing for their "Be a Star" campaign?

Are people booing Nia Jax during this interview?

If WWE ever teamed up Mauro Ranallo and Coach, we would all be doomed as the entire planet would be pulled into a massive vortex of suck.

I was happy to hear them refer to the I/C Title as the "workhorse championship" too. Miz really did help restore some prestige to that championship, as goofy as that sounds.

To quote JR, that was helluva piece of business.

The finish to me is kind of spoiled, since I can't see Miz winning and taking the I/C Championship to SDL. I suppose they could do it, but if Raw doesn't have the I/C Title, they basically have no Men's singles titles.

I've seen a ton of Sheik matches, and if he ever took a legit bump I don't remember it. That was one of the things I found hilarious about the fact that he trained Sabu and RVD. Their styles could not possibly be any different from his. Somehow, I don't think The Sheik taught RVD the 5 Star Frog Splash. Although that visual makes me laugh and laugh.

Yeah, and in my opinion Percy Watson is improving by leaps and bounds. Yeah, this crowd is hot. Also, I am actually surprised how popular Rollins is as a babyface. He's crazy popular lately...since the Shield reunion, really. .

The thought of that scares me, because I remember what he was like when he was the WWE Champion, but maybe that is because of the stupid "authority" angle, which seemed to never end. I struggle to think of a commentator that is worse that has the amount of experience as Coach. You guys said it right there. He talks too damn much, on top of everything. There is an art to a three man booth, and Coach can't seem to figure out the rhythm of it. He seems to think he has to add his two cents to absolutely everything. He needs to let the situation breathe, and let the other two guys talk. Well, at least Graves.

I saw it and assumed she is starting a KISS cover band.

I think he adjusts his act depending on the situation. If you listen to an episode of each one of Conrad's three podcasts, you get three different Conrads. 83 Weeks (at least so far) features Serious Conrad. Something to Wrestle features Entertaining Conrad. What Happened When features Raunchy Conrad. So far, I prefer 83 Weeks, but it has only been one episode so far. I really enjoyed that episode, as it was a style and format I wish STW was now. Maybe in time, 83 Weeks will end up like STW, but I don't think so. Conrad and Bruce are good friends, and I don't know that he and Eric will ever get that familiar, but who knows.

Not too long after listening to the show (and turning it off after the Nikita joke) I sent Conrad an email. I basically just said that I was a listener of all three of his shows, and that I was disappointed in he and Tony for making that joke. I told him that judging from his responses to people who criticized him on Twitter, I assumed he would either ignore my complaint or be rude and sarcastic with me, but I wanted to let him know I thought the joke was in poor taste. I was pretty surprised to get a rather lengthy and detailed response from Conrad this afternoon. He said that he didn't know the details surrounding Nikita's wife's death and he was sorry I was offended. He said he was sorry that he alienated me as a supporter and listener of the show. He actually shared some personal details with me about how cancer has affected his life and things he has done to try and combat the disease, but that he was not sharing those details with me for credit, just that he understands and shares my feelings about cancer. He says that he and Tony have agreed that their personal philosophy on humor on "What Happens When" is "Tragedy + Time = Comedy" and realized that doesn't work for everyone, that they've made a ton of "over the line" jokes through the course of this show, and he understood that when one hits a nerve, it disappoints fans and that was not his intention. He reiterated that he and Tony are trying to entertain, "by any means necessary" and would never intentionally hurt anyone's feelings "in real life." Conrad wasn't apologizing for making the joke, but he said he was sorry it disappointed me and that wasn't his intention. I know he is a very busy guy, so his taking the time out of his day to write me a very detailed and personal response was a sincere gesture on his part. I am still disappointed in Conrad and Tony, and I don't think I am ever going to listen to What Happened When again - that show is clearly going in a direction I don't like. But I appreciated his response and the gesture.

Thanks, El-P. In further interest of full disclosure, while I really did have cancer...I was joking about herpes. I never had herpes, I swear.

I will freely admit something rather personal here. My mother died of cancer the day after I was born, depriving me of a normal upbringing. Her mother, my grandmother died of cancer when I was a teenager. Both her sisters, my aunts died of cancer. My father is currently battling cancer and is losing the fight. And 10 years ago, guess what disease almost killed me? Herpes. No, just kidding. I had cancer. As I said, that was ten years ago but it took three major surgeries and a buttload of painful treatment to get me to this point. And I have never fully recovered physically, and suffer the aftereffects to this day - and will for the rest of my life. (I'm missing part of my right lung now.) It almost killed me, and given my personal history and my family's history, I suspect it will probably get me in the end. The disease seems to have a real beef with my family, for some reason. So yeah, in the interest of full disclosure I openly admit that when it comes to making jokes about people who have died of cancer, I am probably more sensitive than the next guy. I think it is in really poor taste, and it is unnecessary. I totally get that there is a school of thought in comedy that absolutely nothing should be off limits for jokes. I also know we are living in an age where people get offended at the drop of a hat, and start angry twitter trends demanding apologies for even the smallest slights. In my opinion, there has to be some happy medium somewhere. All I can say is that the whole thing just struck me as unnecessary. I didn't see why Conrad or Tony had to go there, and I thought it was beneath both of them. It's sad to see that what was once an entertaining and informative (at times) podcast has now degenerated into nothing more than a place to hear dick jokes and jokes made in bad taste while a comic flunky hoots and hollers in the background. I had kind of hoped both Tony and Conrad were better than that, but clearly I am the idiot. I keep forgetting this is the wrestling business and it seems to produce nothing but people to whom class and decency is a foreign concept. As I said, I fully maintain the joke was in poor taste, but I also admit I have a strong personal bias when it comes to cancer jokes. Maybe if my own background were different, I would have laughed at the joke, but I'd like to think I wouldn't.

I don't think I've been an "aggressor" and I don't think I've been following poor shodate around and harassing him, either. Clearly, this is a divisive subject. There are people who think shodate is trolling, either intentionally or unintentionally. There are those who think he is being unfairly centered out and picked on. Either way, it doesn't really matter what any of us think. Loss has clearly said that if shodate continues to make unintelligible and/or off topic political posts, he'll be banned. That's good enough for me and I take him at his word regarding that. He asked us to drop it, so as far as I'm concerned it has been dropped. I joined New Millennium Blues in April 2005, before it became Pro Wrestling Only. That means I've been a member here for 13 years. I daresay I've visited the site pretty much every day in those 13 years, even if it was just for a few minutes. I don't always post, but I'm always around. Hell, I've known Loss since meeting him on the Rantsylvania Delphi forum in 1999, which means he's been an online acquaintance of mine for 19 years. So obviously, I like him and I like this place. Maybe he doesn't always like me, maybe he doesn't like the way I have conducted myself during this situation, I don't know. Clearly, my definition of what constitutes trolling and what Loss thinks constitutes trolling are two different things. It's his board, so I defer to his decision, obviously. But more often than not, I agree with Loss and the way he runs this board. I don't agree with how this particular situation has been handled, but that's really neither here nor there. That is not my call to make. I'm certainly not going to escalate the issue any further. I'd hate to see members like Magnum Milano or gordi or anybody else (because I know there are others) leave or reduce their presence at PWO over a situation like this. Magnum been here 10 years, and has contributed a lot in that time. Ditto for gordi, he's been here almost as long as I have and has contributed much more. This place needs all the good contributors it can get and we all lose if guys like those and the others leave, or start posting here less. I am hoping cooler heads prevail and this situation can run it's course and resolve itself naturally. In the end, I'd like to see us all come together and find a way to blame Vince Russo for this entire situation. To me, that would be the best possible outcome.

Conrad himself said specifically that he thought Tony was making fun of Nikita's wife dying about two seconds after Tony did it. And how can you possibly talk about the "context" when you just admitted that you didn't even hear it?

I should clarify, Vic. Tony and Conrad (and the Casio Kid) never specifically made fun of Nikita's wife dying of Hodgkin's Disease, they just made fun of her dying. I know she died of Hodgkin's Disease because I once saw an interview with Nikita where he talked about how she got sick and died within a year, and how hard it was watching her suffer. It was years ago I saw that interview, but I never forgot it because it was pretty heartbreaking. From Mike Mooneyham: As for the context of "the joke" - you know they do the gimmick when they're doing a watch-along where Tony voices over promos, saying something goofy? Kind of like their version of Mystery Science Theater 3000, but not anywhere near as clever or funny? So Nikita is on his way to the ring, and Tony does a Russian accent and says: "I married Ms. Alabama, and she died on me." Conrad says: "And apparently, you like to make fun of this." Tony started laughing, Conrad asked: "What did she die of?" Tony: (Laughing so hard he can barely answer.) "What did she die of?" Conrad: "Maybe Nikita gave her the sickle, the Russian sickle." (At this point "The Casio Kid" is screeching with laughter in the background loudly.) Conrad and Tony start laughing hysterically, and Conrad adds..."Not sickle cell anemia, the clothesline!" (The Casio Kid continues to howl and repeat what Conrad is saying."Sickle cell anemia! The clothesline!") At that point, Tony starts laughing so hard he can't talk for a few moments, like he can't breathe. He finally says that he is probably going to hell for saying that, or getting hit on the top of the head by lightning, so he's sorry to Nikita... "But it's so funny!" Classy.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I don't think Meltzer and Prichard have the same agenda, really. Meltzer reports on what he thinks is wrestling news - that's how he makes his living. Prichard is now making a living off entertaining wrestling fans, not educating them. I don't know that we can really compare them, although when you think about it they are a lot more similar than you would think. I've lost count of the number of times Prichard has played the "Meltzer has never worked a match or promoted a show, so has no business even talking about it" card. In other words, he's accusing Meltzer of leeching off the Pro Wrestling business without being a part of it. Yet without Meltzer, Prichard loses most of his show. Conrad doesn't have sources for his show outlines, Prichard doesn't have anybody to rant about, and most of all...Prichard doesn't make money from his "Fuck Dave Meltzer" nWo parody shirt... Prichard is pretty much leeching off Meltzer at this point, really. Having said all that, once again I don't think it's Prichard who is the problem. It's these weird fans who treat everything he says as gospel and use it to troll Meltzer on Twitter, etc. Then again, Twitter Meltzer kind of deserves to be trolled, so I don't feel all that sorry for him. You reap what you sow.

You make a good point. After listening to the debut episode of Bischoff's show this past week, I had the same thought. I know Bischoff can and will be just as guilty as Prichard of being full of shit. He will also have an agenda he is trying to promote. But so does Meltzer. Don't get me wrong...I genuinely respect Dave Meltzer's work and abilities. However, the massive explosion in wrestling related Shoot Interviews and Podcasts over the past few years by people who are either insiders or in some cases were actual decision makers themselves, has damaged Meltzer's credibility somewhat. I never did take everything Metlzer reported as fact, but I think there are more and more examples of times he was just flat out wrong coming to light. (The whole "who is the third man going to be" story is a good example. I am of the opinion that some of Dave's theories about that story were just not right.) I also don't discount the fact that Dave has clearly gotten worked by some of his sources who obviously had agendas of their own. One thing Prichard is clearly doing is using his show to bury people he has a bad history with. To hear him tell it, Jerry Jarrett is an idiot, Terry Taylor is overrated and Paul Heyman was never as successful as his brainwashed fans think. Maybe all those things are true...but you can tell that (at least in the case of Jarrett and Heyman) there is clearly some jealousy happening.

Loss, I can see why some fans would be surprised and even concerned about the upward trajectory of Bruce Prichard's relevance to Pro Wrestling. He has been experiencing a pretty amazing, unpredictable and unlikely career resurgence that I don't think anybody could have predicted. My feelings about him have vacillated over the past couple of years. At first, I wrote him off as nothing more than a WWF/E shill and apologist, who was obnoxious to boot. If I didn't suffer from chronic insomnia, it's likely I never would have listened to his podcast. Eventually, I warmed up to him - but purely for entertainment reasons. After a while, his show grew on me...as comedy commentary. I found his banter with Conrad Thompson to be quite humorous. His show was easy to listen to, and inoffensive for the most part. Lately, I find myself becoming disenchanted with the show for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it is becoming incredibly over-exposed. His normal show is already famous for long episodes, and now we're getting bonus shows and the Network show on top of all that. It's getting to be too much Prichard, for me. Secondly, I am finding his act is kind of like Beavis & Butthead or the Three Stooges...funny on an embarrassing visceral level, but not the kind of entertaining that can be enjoyed without it wearing thin after a while. I can only hear so many Vince McMahon or Jerry Jarrett imitations before I get tired. (Although to be honest, his Terry Funk still cracks me up.) Also, his whole Meltzer-bashing act is getting beyond boring. It's the same damn thing every show now. The main thing that is turning me off Bruce Prichard is that people are starting to take what he says as a fact. That's kind of scary. Conrad Thompson has clearly stated on many occasions that the show is meant to be entertainment first, everything else second. If there are really people out there who take what Prichard says as gospel and use it as "facts" for the basis for an argument, that's kind of terrifying. A lot of other people in this thread have hit the nail on the head. Hearing from Bruce Prichard is the closet we're ever going to get to knowing how Vince McMahon's mind works. He can provide a peek into the creative process with Vince that can be very interesting. Do I think he's telling the truth some of the time? Sure. Hell, he might even be telling the truth a lot of the time. But there are also countless times where he's quite clearly full of shit. To be fair, Conrad calls him on that fairly regularly. Listening to a Bruce Prichard podcast and walking away thinking you got facts, is kind of like watching MTV News and thinking you got news. Technically it might be true...but not really.

Great post, shodate. Let's check The shodate Manifesto and see how you scored... Now please respond the way I know you're going to, so I can check off #6 as well. And for the record...yes I know what I just posted is "deformation."

I turned this week's episode off long before they got to the Main Event. It was bad enough that Conrad had his friend "The Casio Kid" (who is apparently a "morning man" disc jockey in Alabama) hooting and hollering in the background, laughing hysterically at everything Tony and Conrad said. But they bottomed out nicely when Tony started joking about Nikita Koloff's wife dying of Hodgkin's disease - while Conrad and The Casio Kid whooped it up. Because somebody dying of cancer is hilarious, apparently. I guess Bobby Heenan was right about Tony Schiavone after all.

I collected the entire run of AJPW from 1990 up until the AJPW/Pro-Wrestling Noah split. I then collected the first couple of years of Noah. Unfortunately, this was all on VHS, which means in my crawl space I have a massive box of VHS tapes which I haven't touched in almost 10 years. I also collected the first 25-30 ROH shows on VHS. I got out of the promotion to a degree when the Rob Feinstein scandal broke, then I came back later. I purchased all the "big shows" like the Joe/Punk Trilogy and Joe vs. Kobashi. I have a ton of ROH DVD's that are unopened, that I got a great deal on at an ROH show in Toronto back in 2008. I think those are in a giant plastic tote in the back of my closet. This is all from back in the days when I made a lot more money and had disposable income. It's been a while since I've watched either promotion. Whenever I get a yearning to see some 90's AJPW, I watch it on YouTube. I've never really had an overwhelming desire to see any of that early ROH again...certainly not enough to pull that massive box out of my crawl space (and suffer the inevitable allergy attack from the dust and mites which must be covering that box now) then buy a VCR and hook it up. But I remember that stuff pretty clearly. I watched some of those early ROH shows repeatedly before VHS went the way of the dodo. To be honest, I don't think a lot of that early ROH would hold up all that well. Also, I think it may have kind of set the template for a lot of the spot-heavy independent stuff which still permeates the scene to this day. I could die happily having never seen another Xavier match, or especially a (shudder) "scramble." Don't get me wrong, there is some great stuff in there, but there is also a lot of dated nonsense. I can't even imagine how the "Christopher Street Connection" would go over with Twitter today. Some people might disagree with me, but I think the 90's AJPW stuff is pretty timeless. You can watch a Jumbo & Company vs. Misawa and Friends 6 Man match, or any of the "Four Corners" matches today and they're just as dramatic and compelling as they were at the time. And that's not even getting into the Misawa/Kawada rivalry or Misawa/Kobashi matches. As far as negatives, you could aim the same complaints at them that some do at current NJPW...the matches are long and take a hell of a long time to get where they're going. Also, the style is undeniably brutal. It's not a coincidence that Misawa died in the ring from a neck injury and Kobashi had to retire after missing years of action due to injury. It can be hard to watch that old stuff now, knowing what those guys were doing to their bodies. But from a quality standpoint, I can't really see a compelling argument that would convince me ROH was any better than AJPW. If nothing else, based on the sheer volume of the work. If you believe in Meltzer star ratings, then check out this famous list. Like I said, the sheer volume of high quality matches is unparalleled. I don't think we'll ever see a single promotion produce so many classic matches in such a time frame ever again. To me, it's AJPW and it's pretty much a no-brainer.