The Thread Killer

Here is my big question pertaining to why WWE broke them up: Why? I want to believe that they have ideas & directions for them both but I think we all know that isn't true. WWE doesn't exactly do a lot of long-term planning, thinking or booking anymore. So after Enzo/Cass feud with each other, then what? Cass gets fed to the top face and Enzo does nothing? It just seems exceptionally short-sighted to me. That being said, yeah, that Enzo promo was money. I watched it on YouTube and was like "this dude gets it." I always knew he was a good talker, I was just concerned that he was going to get shoehorned into just being repetitive catchphrases. Maybe that's why WWE pulled the trigger on splitting them up, because they were concerned that they would grow stale way too quickly? A lesson that they never seemingly learned from the New Age Outlaws. I still believe that Enzo's true calling in the world of professional wrestling is being a Jimmy Hart style swarmy, chickenshit heel manager that can take bumps when needed. I couldn't agree with you more. Why break them up? I have to admit, I really liked Enzo and Cass. I know it's not a popular opinion, but for some reason, something about them really entertained me. I don't know why they never got a run with the titles, because based on crowd reactions and merchandise sales, they were red hot for a while there. Even a token run. Hell, Gallows and Anderson got one, and Enzo and Cass were undoubtedly bigger than them. I think around the time they had the feud with Rusev and Jinder Mahal, it became pretty clear that the creative team was running out of ideas for them, and their popularity started to wane. I was still hopeful that they were going to win the titles at Wrestlemania, but we all know how that worked out. I read somewhere that WWE only wants one popular babyface tag team per show. I didn't think that theory was true, but if you look at Raw having the Hardys and SDL having New Day...maybe it is true. Maybe creative didn't see a place for them. Which I think sucks, because I don't think they ever got their chance to be all that they could have been. We all knew they were going to break up eventually, but I think this was way too soon. I think it's possible Cass will go on to a moderately successful singles career, since he is a hoss. And it turns out he can cut a decent promo after all. Enzo is more problematic. I don't think he has much to offer as a singles wrestler. He can bump his ass off, but the only offensive maneuvers he ever had that I thought were impressive involved Cass hurling him at people. By himself, I'm not sure how that's going to work. The way I see it, there are a few options. They either find him another hoss as a partner, which is possible. Or they send him to the Cruiserweight Division, where he wouldn't be so small, which isn't a bad idea, since they could use a good talker/bumper on 205 Live and he would add some star power to that division. They could make him a commentator/manager which would work, I'm sure he'd be passable...he'd be better than Otunga or Percy Watson. But we all know how Vince feels about managers. Most likely is that he ends up as a scrub, losing on TV to big guys for the foreseeable future, until he gets future endeavored. I hate it when an act is crazy over in NXT, only to come up to the "big roster" where they manage to stay over, but still get flushed for unknown reasons. I can't help but wonder if there are forces on the main roster creative team who are sabotaging NXT guys when they come up. I know, it sounds like a stupid smark conspiracy theory, but I recently read an interview with Bruce Prichard who had this to say about CM Punk... I don't think it's unheard of for certain forces in creative to sabotage certain acts for reasons that have nothing to do with their abilities. I can't help but wonder if that is what happened with Enzo and Cass, since they were one of Triple H's pet projects.

Hot damn. That Enzo promo wasn't half bad. The "You're a catch-phrase that I wrote" line was gold. Finally Enzo is scoring back after being the victim two weeks in a row. I really wish they hadn't broken up Enzo and Cass so quickly, but I have to admit they have both done pretty damn well in the promo department with this story. I wonder if that teardrop tattoo and "New Life" tattoo of Enzo's are real, and if so I wonder if he got them because he and Cass broke up, and if so, I wonder if he's mental. Also, if I never ever saw Noam Dar again as long as I lived, I'd be A-OK with that.

Easy answer for me. Misawa from June 1990 up until the AJPW/NOAH split, really. An argument could be made that his peak was pretty much over up by 98, not to mention that I think it was around 97 when the match style in AJPW started to shift into an over-reliance on head drops...so if pressed I could scale it back to June 1990 - November 1998. I know, that is 8 years not 3-5...but this is Misawa we're talking about.

Dave Meltzer added his two cents on the Russo restraining order against Cornette, and confirms exactly what Bix said. Meltzer talks about how Cornette has every reason to hate Russo for screwing him out of his job in TNA using dishonest and scuzzy tactics. It's nothing Cornette didn't say himself, but Meltzer adds an interesting (and calmer, more rational) take on the issue.

Boy, is Enzo ever gullible. That's the first time I've ever seen a guy have the same partner turn on him...two weeks in a row. He should call Sting so they can commiserate about what it feels like to be betrayed - repeatedly.

Mr. Wrestling II never looked that good in tights, either.

You might not care, and that's fine. I don't care in the sense that I have any sort of personal investment in the situation, but I freely admit I find the situation extremely humorous. Listening to Jim Cornette berate Vince Russo is never not funny to me. Maybe that means there is something wrong with me, I don't know. If so, that's fine. I don't think anybody is (or could) argue that either Cornette or Russo are acting like mentally well adjusted individuals. I believe that Jim Cornette legitimately hates Vince Russo, and I think Vince Russo honestly doesn't understand why. That is one of the most fascinating things to me about Vince Russo. I've never seen anybody who (albeit briefly) ended up becoming as powerful as he did in the world of Pro Wrestling, while at the same time seeming to have a total lack of understanding about the basics of the business. He never got it. He still doesn't get why people didn't like him, why he didn't succeed, and why somebody like Jim Cornette would despise him for what he did to the business. I don't think anybody with as little talent has ever done as much damage as he did. I think part of why I find his situation so amusing is simple. I am sure many of us at one point or another, have found ourselves working for somebody who was in a position of authority over us, that either got their position based on something other than skill, or clearly didn't know as much about the job as the people they were in charge of. Regardless of the line of work, that kind of circumstance is fairly commonplace. I just find somebody who is obviously and blatantly incompetent at something getting called out on it to be really funny. It's not the kind of thing you get to see or do in your day to day life. Plus, as a fan who hates what Vince Russo did to the business of Pro Wrestling, I enjoy seeing his bullshit exposed. It makes me sad that there are still lemmings out there who defend Russo, so I like to see people in the industry tell the truth about Russo. I don't like Jim Cornette and I don't like Bruce Prichard, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy seeing Cornette, Prichard, Bischoff and Meltzer call Russo on his bullshit.

I also quite liked that Black/Ohno match. As far as Mauro being in NXT...ugh. I was really excited that we were past the Ranollo era. I can't believe WWE is letting him work for Bellator and them at the same time.

As I'm sure some of you have heard, there have been some highly entertaining happenings in the world of Vince Russo over the past few weeks. As we discussed here, when Bischoff and Cornette were on Table for 3, they took some shots at Vince Russo. The fallout from this show has been pretty epic, and I daresay it garnered more of a reaction from Russo than Cornette or Bischoff could have hoped for. Russo apparently didn't much care for his name being brought up on Table for 3. In addition to reportedly contacting WWE to complain about it, he also allegedly took issue with the photo they used of him on screen when he was referenced on the show, as it was unflattering. The crux of Russo's issue is that Cornette and Bischoff "had no balls" because they would never say those things to his face. He made these statements in a couple of interviews he gave, on Twitter and on his own podcast. After hearing Russo's response, Bischoff tried to somewhat take the high road, and simply mentioned on his podcast that he doesn't hate Russo but also doesn't want anything to do with him and doesn't want to engage with him, because he's basically a pathological liar and there is plenty of documented proof of that. In response to what Bischoff said, Russo recorded a where he publicly "apologized" to Bischoff in what seemed like an attempt to be funny or clever. Of course, Jim Cornette wasn't quite as magnanimous. Upon hearing Russo's "say it to my face" speech, Cornette offered to do it and . This particular segment is so...venomous. In response, surprisingly, Russo didn't take Cornette up on the offer, and instead recorded another for Cornette, "apologizing" to him too. Cornette by "conceding defeat" to Russo. Russo apparently felt threatened by this particular podcast, and responded by . The thing I love most about this, is that Jim Cornette is going to be selling personally autographed copies of the restraining order on his website. This has all been hysterically entertaining, but even more hilarious is that while all this is going on...Russo has been embroiled in a huge podcast war with Bruce Prichard! Prichard recorded an epic length podcast critiquing the booking era of Vince Russo which seems to have unhinged Russo even worse in . Apparently, Prichard rebuts a lof of claims that Russo has made over the years, (including in Russo's book) where he has taken responsibility for certain things creatively which Prichard now claims are not true, or only partially true. Part of Russo's comeback was to call Prichard an alcoholic and pill addict. Dave Meltzer is apparently of the opinion that Russo is engaging in these podcast wars for publicity and attention, so I guess in one sense posts like mine are giving him the attention he wants...but I still find it really, really funny.

Am I the only one who thought the Ziggler/Nakamura match tonight was better than their match at Backlash? I thought Nak looked sharper tonight.

I will openly admit that I used to actually pay for the weekly Pay Per Views, during their entire run for the most part. (In retrospect, I feel terrible about that, as it means I was inadvertently responsible for putting money in Vince Russo's pocket. I feel so dirty, and the dirt won't wash off.) When they stopped doing the weekly PPV shows and switched to Impact, I couldn't watch anymore because we didn't get Fox Sports in Canada. (We still don't, actually.) So that was the end of that, and by the time they got on Spike TV it was a;most 18 months later, by that time I no longer had any real interest in TNA.

I wonder if it's true that the Angle/Graves thing is leading to the return of Triple H? Because if it is...meh/bleh. (Meh being I partially don't care, bleh indicating that of all the people I was hoping to see Angle mix it up with upon his return, Triple H wasn't one of them. And I don't even dislike Triple H, but we've seen him and Angle already.)

I was somewhat surprised to see Enzo and Cass split up so quickly. I always figured they'd get at least a token run with the titles, since they seemed popular and from looking at the crowds, it appeared they were moving a ton of merchandise. I assumed this day was coming, just not so soon. I don't much like Enzo's chances from here on in. I wonder if maybe this was because he really isn't the most popular guy backstage. I read somewhere he rubbed some of the trainers the wrong way in NXT by refusing to listen to advice.

WWE would kill to have a midcarder as versatile and permaover as Disco today, you prick. So this guy shares his opinion about Booker mentioning Disco and gets called a prick for it? That's bullshit. He's entitled to his opinion, and as far as Disco Inferno goes, Glen Gilberti is an egotistical moron, who isn't anywhere near as clever as he thinks he is. You know...like you, you dumb shit.

Shit, you're right. I meant to say Kayfabe Commentaries, I don't even know why I said Highspots. Brainfart.

Current favorite wrestler to watch: I've been really enjoying Neville's run as King of the Cruiserweights, especially his run against Austin Aries, up until the submission match. Also, I think that AJ Styles is pretty much on top of his game right now. If The Revival were active right now, they'd likely be the top of this list. Last fun match you saw: That's probably a tie between Dunne vs. Bate at Takeover: Chicago, and I also really enjoyed the Hardyz vs. Cesaro & Sheamus match from Payback. Wrestler you want to see more of: There are a lot of guys on that list. Luke Harper for sure. I'm also curious about the development of Aleister Black. Last live show attended: The last live show I attended was Ring of Honor: Global Wars 2014. That experience was so horrible that I swore off ever attending live wrestling again. It's not because the show was bad (which it was) but the fans were such smarky dickheads that it totally ruined the experience for me. When NXT announced they were coming to Toronto, and were supposed to be appearing at the Mattamy Athletic Center (which is the old Maple Leaf Gardens) I changed my mind and bought tickets. I was really excited because I wanted to go back to Maple Leaf Gardens where I had seen countless shows over the years, and also I was hoping to see Nakamura live, in a small show environment. (They got rid of most of the seating from the old arena and the new venue is much smaller and more intimate.) Then of course, the tickets sold out in a heartbeat, so they decided to change the show into a Takeover, and move it to the Air Canada Centre. I cancelled my ticket because I didn't want to go to the damn Air Canada Centre, I wanted to go to a smaller show. And now I'll never see Nakamura in a small venue. Damn WWE. Match you're most looking forward to watching: I am looking forward to the Money in the Bank match itself on Sunday, it has potential. I am also looking forward to Joe/Lesnar, I am hoping they don't screw that up. Last fun interview/promo you saw: This may not count, but Jim Cornette's recent back and forth about Russo since the Table for 3 has aired has been highly entertaining - mostly because I hate Russo and it's obvious that Cornette (and Bischoff) are getting to him. Last interesting thing you read about wrestling: I haven't read a good wrestling book in a long time. The last thing I followed closely was Bix's coverage of the end of the Dixie era in TNA. He was right on top of that story as it unfolded. Last worthwhile podcast you listened to: I check out the highlights of Cornette's podcast on YouTube. I could never listen to the whole thing, it would drive me mad. However, I never miss an episode of Killing The Town with Lance Storm and Don "Cyrus" Callis. I love that show, it never fails to entertain. Cyrus cracks me up, he is so damn funny. I listen to Jericho and Edge and Christian's podcasts if I am interested in the guest, but I am hit and miss with them - I never miss Killing the Town. Most fun you've had watching wrestling lately: NXT Takeover: Chicago Favorite recent post on this board: In the "WWE Network...It's Here" thread we had a discussion about the Cornette/Bischoff/Hayes Table for 3, which morphed into a discussion about the merits of Vince Russo and Jim Cornette, and the creative limits of wrestling booking. That was a discussion I quite enjoyed. Favorite thing about the wrestling landscape in the past three months: The fact that Nakamura and Samoa Joe have managed to have any degree of success on the main roster in WWE has been enjoyable to me.

I heard this clip with Jim Cornette discussing the new shoot that Highspots is doing with Savio Vega, where apparently there are never before revealed details about the murder of Bruiser Brody. I may have to check this out...

I'm not sure...maybe. I had tapped out on WWE programming by the time they did the heel Michael Cole angle. He was always a heel to me from the moment he replaced JR, due to the fact that he sucks. In all honesty, I don't even know what they're trying or hoping to achieve with the Borash vs. Mathews angle. Unless the idea is to irritate and alienate the few remaining hardcore fans who were still giving them a chance. In which case, it's working brilliantly.

I'm a little bit excited about the match, but I'm also nervous, because honestly I can count on one hand the legitimately good Brock Lesnar matches that he's been involved with since his return from UFC. I think it boils down to how much Brock really wants to work with Joe. If he wants to, the match could be awesome. If he treats Joe the way he treated Ambrose, then...oh boy.

One of the many things that astounds me about TNA - I'm sorry, I mean IMPACT - right now is this... You have two hours of TV a week. You have a young, and in many cases virtually unknown roster to try and get over. So what do you do? Devote a ridiculous amount of TV time to an absolutely pointless and cringe-worthy storyline involving your two ANNOUNCERS feuding. Do they actually think people are going to tune in to see what comes of the amazing Jeremy Borash vs. Josh Mathews feud? Are they really that dense?

It strikes me that I am coming across as the defender of all things NXT in this thread, or implying that I think that every new hire needs to go there for re-programming or something, and that's not the case. The most obvious example would be AJ Styles who never set foot in NXT, and his WWE career obviously hasn't suffered for it. Now of course, an argument could be made that at the time WWE signed him, AJ Styles was the best active Professional Wrestler in the world, so why the hell would they send him to developmental...but I'm not so sure WWE felt that way about Styles at first. I know they're not that popular around these parts, but Gallows and Anderson would be another example of a team who really didn't need to go to NXT. They haven't set the world on fire on RAW by any stretch, but I don't think a stint in NXT would have made much difference. I was going to speculate that maybe WWE creative thinks people who have spent extended time in NJPW and have worked the big dome shows and done their TV might be better prepared to go straight to the main roster, but the argument against that would be how long they sat on Balor before calling him up.

Interesting perspective. Bobby Roode hails from my neck of the woods, so when NXT came to Toronto, he did a ton of local media. During one of the interviews, they asked him if was insulted that he was sent to NXT rather than straight to the main roster. Roode answered that he was glad he had gone to NXT, because even though he had tons of experience in TNA he was actually shocked at how much of the production and creative aspects of the business he was still unaware of. He used his whole "Glorious" theme as an example. He talked about how the song had originally been done for Nakamura, but Nakamura rejected it. They put the song on the shelf, but when Roode came in they presented it to him. He said that he hated the song at first listen, but once he sat down and discussed how to incorporate the song into his gimmick, with the robes and the exaggerated and incredibly vainglorious ring entrance, he loved it. He talked about how when he gets to the main roster eventually, he will feel like a much more practiced and well developed all around character. Not to mention, he'll probably be over already due to the percentage of crossover fans who watch NXT and the main roster - much like the anticipation for Nakamura was so amped when he finally showed up. The bottom line was that Roode said that his time in NXT so far has been invaluable and he's glad that he didn't debut on the main roster right away. Now of course, he'd have been a total idiot to say otherwise. Even if he was unhappy to go to NXT, he's not going to sit there and say that to some sports talk radio jock in Toronto. But with the way he elaborated and explained how he feels being in NXT has helped him, I actually believe he meant it. I personally think Samoa Joe needed his time in NXT to get back in shape. He had kinda let himself go a bit in TNA. Besides, keep in mind he was originally hired exclusively for NXT and was never intended to go to the main roster. If you believe what he said on Jericho's podcast, they originally hired him to be a cornerstone of NXT when it became it's own touring brand. I found it humorous when he talked about how some guys in NXT consider the money and accommodations to be inferior to what they anticipate they'll be getting on the main roster, when he found it all to be quite luxurious compared to what he was used to both on the indies and in TNA. I really had no issue with how Nakamura was used or presented in NXT. As far as the main roster, I think it's still too soon to say. I thought the Ziggler match wasn't much of a showcase for him, and that Ziggler got way too much on him. I am holding judgement to wait and see how he does at Money in the Bank, and if he wins. If he starts stagnating in the SDL midcard, then we'll know for sure how bad the difference is between NXT and the main roster, creatively. Because say what you want about how Nakamura was used in NXT, but he was always at the top of the card, pretty much from the get go. On the main roster, the jury is still out.

I could not agree with you more. I never saw the big deal with Crews when he got to NXT. His work was bland and unremarkable and he had the infuriating habit of grinning like an idiot 90% of the time. I'll never forget after he was called up, I forget who it was, but somebody attacked him backstage and beat him down, left him lying in a heap. A couple of segments later, out comes Apollo Crews who is not only NOT selling any injuries from the attack, but he's still got the big ass, shit-eating grin plastered across his face. I don't know about you, but if somebody kicked the shit out of me and left me in a heap, I'd likely still be a little put out by it 15 minutes later. I assume somebody in creative on the main roster liked him because of his big muscles. There might be those who say "at least he has big muscles" but I tend to think no...at most he's got big muscles.

I don't think that is a fair or accurate statement. I think after WCW and ECW died, NXT became a necessity. Lets say WWE becomes interested in a guy who is making a big buzz on the independent scene. Just because the guy knows a bunch of moves, and how to get a reaction from the crowd, it doesn't mean he's ready to be on RAW. A lot of those guys have never even been on TV before, they've never had to cut regular promos in front of a camera, or learned how to do any of the logistical things you need to learn to perform on television, knowing how to work to the hard camera, etc. Not to mention, WWE has their own massive list of things performers aren't allowed to do or say. What moves are banned, what phrases and words they can and can't use, and all that nonsense. Newcomers to WWE need to learn that stuff somewhere and they need somewhere to practice working "WWE style" before heading straight to the main roster. Plus, they get practice working a schedule of TV tapings and live events so WWE officials can evaluate them and see how they adapt. Plus, just the mere existence of the Performance Center as part of NXT is such a great way for guys to rehab injuries and get back into "ring shape" so they don't return from long layoffs and end up having to work out the kinks on the main shows. On top of that, NXT is a great place to rehab or reboot workers creatively into a more viable character. Whether you love him or hate him, Windham Rotunda had to go somewhere to undergo the transition from Husky Harris to Bray Wyatt, and NXT gave him that chance. Ditto Tye Dillinger. You can't just write off all of NXT as a Triple H vanity project. I think Vince has made it abundantly clear over the years that he couldn't give less of a shit what so-called "smart marks" think of his product, so I hardly think the purpose of NXT is to exclusively cater to them, either. The real issue with NXT is two-fold. Firstly, the crowd at Full Sail does tend to be a "smarkier" crowd, so just because somebody is popular with them it is not a guarantee of wider success on the main roster. But worse, there is clearly a difference in the creative teams between NXT and the Main Roster. It was obvious from the get-go that the creative team had no serious intention of pushing The Ascension. (And perhaps justifiably so, because I'm not convinced they don't suck.) Same with The Vaudevillians, same with Apollo Crews, same with Tyler Breeze up until about a month ago. I do wonder why they bother calling some of these acts up to the main roster if they already know ahead of time they aren't going to use them for much. But regardless, I really don't see a logical argument for claiming that NXT is not a viable developmental program.

I remember waaayyy back when they used that gimmick to get Cactus Jack over during his initial run in WCW. He'd team with some scrub against an established team, his partner would take the fall, and then after the match he'd go batshit on his partner and give him a beating, which would usually culminate with that wicked elbow drop from the apron to the concrete outside. (You know...the move which was most likely the key reason Mick Foley just needed a hip replaced.) Anyhow, that was what...27 years ago? And I still remember it, without having ever seen footage of it since. Maybe that idea would work on getting Lars over, who knows.