The Thread Killer

The main event was basically a garbage match. Now I don't mind a good senseless brawl, but I don't think it should have been in the Main Event of their second ever Live PPV. Lower on the card, maybe. Secondly, it was basically a New Jack style match, staples, thumb tacks, etc. Not horrible for what it was, but I expected better. The tag title match was fair to good in parts, but it was a spotfest with no psychology to speak of. And all four guys in the ring at the same time for the second half of the match - to hell with the standard tag team format, face or even heel in peril, tagging in and out, etc. Just a whole lot of kicking out of finishing moves and highspots.

I made the mistake of ordering Final Battle 2013 on PPV last night. That show was terrible - practically unwatchable. During the Moose vs. RD Evans match, I found myself waxing nostalgic about the greatness of the Heroes of Wrestling PPV back in 1999.

Okay, THAT was damn funny.

Back when I used to write for 411, I was some pissed off at the lead up to the Booker T/Triple H match at Wrestlemania. http://411mania.com/wrestling/the-skeptic-tank-03-16-03-by-any-other-name/ Holy crap, that was 11 years ago. Anyhow, I have never paid for any WWE programming of any kind since then.

Have you read "Wrestling at the Chase?" It's actually quite interesting - which in itself as a feat, since I find Larry Matysik's writing style to be maddening. The way Muchnick is painted in that book, he was pretty fair with the wrestlers regarding pay and what was there was there when it came to his word. Kind of reminds me of how people speak of Baba - but no Motoko for Sam. Flipping through the book again, I actually get the impression that Vince took Muchnick's retirement in January 1982 as a kind of greenlight to start his expansion. I wonder if Muchnick had stayed around - do you think things would have ended up any different for the NWA?

I find it hard to believe that Will mentions all these precious friendships and memories he has from PWO and fails to mention the greatest gift of all he ever received, a personally autographed picture of Ricky Morton. Everything after that is just gravy.

OT and not trying to be nit picky, but McMahon didn't put Sam Muchnick out of business. He probably would have, but Muchnick quit after his wife passed away and he found it hard to motivate himself to go to work. He was also reportedly sick of being President of the NWA and having to referee squabbles between promoters. He was also unhappy with how the NWA Championship was being booked as he apparently saw it as devaluing the title. It's also very possible that Muchnick saw the writing on the wall and didn't want to go to war with McMahon, but technically, he got out before McMahon could push him out. And I personally think McMahon would have had a hard time getting Muchnick out, because the man was no dummy and he seemed to inspire a lot of loyalty from those who worked for him.

I don't know if he is or not. I do know that the four names he centered out for giving him a hard time in developmental were Snow, Malenko, Nova and Williams. And if I remember the interview correctly, he told Heyman that somebody who worked for WWE used the aforementioned slur. They may have been, and maybe they still are but in the interview clip I saw, Cabana did not seem like a big Nova fan. Remember, Nova got fired for screwing something up royally in developmental. Perhaps this was it. I don't know. You might have seen the same interview I saw, sek. I remember him saying that Williams made him read it, and then quizzed them on it! Anyhow... I have met the following wrestlers: Jake Roberts Johnny Valentine The Iron Sheik The blond Nasty Boy (I could never remember which one was Knobbs and which one was Saggs) Greg Valentine Jim Duggan Kerry Von Erich The Ultimate Warrior Ricky Steamboat Ted Dibiase with Virgil Bret Hart The Undertaker This was in my capacity as a Social Worker, WWF used to run shows every December 26 at Maple Leaf Gardens and Jack Tunney (in his role as Toronto promoter NOT "WWF President") used to give us a great deal on tickets and let the kids backstage to meet the wrestlers. This was the big Christmas treat for the kids, we'd go downtown to eat, go to the show and the kids would get to meet the wrestlers. We would also go to the odd house show at MLG and get backstage if we could. Jack Tunney was a nice man for that, he didn't have to do it, and wanted to extra thanks or credit. For the most part, the wrestlers stayed in character, but... Even though he was supposed to be all dark and mysterious, Jake Roberts was CRAZY nice to those kids. Johnny V ignored the kids totally and spent all his time hitting on my female coworkers who were thoroughly repulsed by him. The Iron Sheik was in and out, nice enough but CLEARLY high as a kite. This caused no end of hilarity for the kids, since they were all well able to spot the signs of somebody fucked up on drugs, from dealing with dear old Mom and Dad. The blond Nasty Boy spent all his time trying to get him out of the room as quick as possible. Greg Valentine was nice but the poor guy was incredibly tired, he told us he literally couldn't remember what city he was in. He had to fly somewhere else for another show the same day. Jim Duggan was just as nice as Jake Roberts, he actually talked to the kids at length, like asked them questions about themselves. Kerry Von Erich and The Ultimate Warrior just waved and said hello, but they were nice enough I suppose. Ted Dibiase and Virgil stayed in character, but Ted cut a promo for the kids and did his famous laugh and they LOVED it. I had to hear that laugh imitated for weeks after. Ricky Steamboat was super nice too. He was one of the only ones who was nice to the kids but also thanked the workers who brought them, which was really cool. The Undertaker stayed in character, but did something so incredibly nice for one of my kids, I'll never forget it as long as I live. It is a bit of a story, so I'll have to type it later. Bret was VERY nice to the kids and pretty damn rude to us. I also met Sabu once. He was rude, profane and gave me an autograph. It was funny. I met Balls Mahoney and Axl Rotten after an ECW show in Buffalo. They were cool, thanked me for supporting ECW, especially when they found out I had driven down from Toronto for the show. Oh, you know who was crazy nice? Carey Silken. Both ROH shows I went to, he worked the door, shaking fans hands on the way out and thanking them for supporting the product.

I know that Cabana is not a big Al Snow fan, based on how Snow reportedly treated him in OVW - Snow allegedly told Cabana that he couldn't get over as a comedy wrestler (which coming from Snow is just plain weird) and also allegedly said and did a lot of other unpleasant things to Cabana. Cabana also told Paul Heyman that somebody in WWE developmental called him "Kike Cabana" which caused Heyman to go on a rant about anti-Semitism in wrestling in general. The rumor I heard was that it was Dean Malenko or Nova that actually uttered the slur - but maybe Snow gets the heat for it, I dunno. Overall, to hear Cabana tell it, Snow, Malenko, Nova and Steve Williams all went out of their way to make Cabana's time in developmental shitty. From what I understand, it was a case of "I don't care if you were over in the indies, yer in the big leagues now, boy" by a bitter bunch of guys who never made it all that big with WWE themselves. (Coincidentally, Nova invented hazing rookies.) As far as I know, none of this can be proven. Also, in my own humble opinion Colt Cabana does kinda suck and comes off bitter about not making it big when his buddies did... But either way that is no excuse for anti-Semitism obviously. On the flip side, one of my best friends has had the occassion to interact with Al Snow on several occassions and says he's really nice and very funny. So who knows?

I was there. It was...not so good. The booking was odd (not one, but two triple threat tag matches? Plus the Fatal 4 Way for the TV title didn't get anywhere near enough time) and Adam Cole is just awful. Seriously bad. I was getting nostalgic for Xavier. Worst of all were the terribly obnoxious ROH fans. The ones behind me and next to me were so annoying, I may never go to a live wrestling show again. There is nothing worse than a fan who thinks he is clever and witty, but really isn't. Even if the show had been good...which it wasn't...the fans would have ruined it for me. Being surrounded by those people has made me seriously question if I have outgrown being a wrestling fan after 31 years. ROH has really gone down since the last time I saw them live, at Northern Navigation in 2008.They won't be getting my business again any time soon.

I give you Goldberg & Mutoh vs. Kronik. So bad for so many reasons. It was the Main Event, it was just horrible. It was the match that didn't end, it just went on and on my friend. Some people starting watching it not knowing what it was, then they wanted to gouge their eyes out just because, it was the match that didn't end, it just went on and on my friend... A little bit of me died when I saw it, never to return.

I disagree. Two of the top contenders (Machida and Rua) were offered that fight, and turned it down. If there was a ranked contender who wanted the fight, and Sonnen got it over them, that would be one thing. (Like when Hendricks clearly deserved the shot at GSP but GSP wanted and got Diaz instead.) Dana White made it clear that Sonnen was the only one ready and willing to take that fight at that time. Everybody else had unreasonable demands which would have resulted in the fight being delayed by as many as 6-9 months.

THANK YOU! I was complaining about just those issues to somebody else a while back. To me, Edge's pathetic hammy facial expressions and terrible promos made me taking him seriously impossible, but I had never heard anybody else say the same thing. I was starting to think it was just me. I know I should have cheered for the hometown boy who made it big, but I could never see the big deal with Edge. I liked his stuff with Foley, but that was more down to Foley than Edge. Other than that? Pffft.

Damn you. I was not expecting to read that, and just did a massive Diet Coke spit-take across my living room.

I'm sorry but I seriously question the intelligence of somebody who thinks that fight was fixed. You can question why the hell Silva was so stupid, but it's practically impossible to make a legitimate argument about that fight being fixed. Only people who have very little exposure to seeing real, legit fights would think it was fixed, IMO.

Mike Sharpe has been one of the worst wrestlers when viewing the 80s. Just unbearable. Okay, listen...that is Canada's Greatest Athlete you're talking about. Show some respect. The man had a serious forearm injury, you can't expect all his matches to have been 5 star classics.

I have to disagree there. He came across as pretty natural and relaxed on the mic, in my opinion.

It's not so much the fact he was killed but the fact that him being killed resulted in a massive eulogy from Meltzer which helped to generate a myth of this great and legendary worker. The timing is arguably key: 1988. That was a time when a guy like Meltzer had a sizable audience but also a time when footage was not readily available and the tape trading scene wasn't what it was in, say, the late 90s. Received wisdom, once it is acquired, dies very hard. Look at Dynamite Kid vs. Tiger Mask. The idea that that is a great match is almost hard-wired into the minds of at least two generations of fans. If Brody doesn't die, he doesn't acquire this mythical status. He probably has a run in early 90s WCW or something and is remembered by lots of people as being a shitty brawling guy not too much better than Jim Duggan. If Brody does die, he doesn't get Meltzer working overtime to put him over as an all-time great. Point being: most fans don't go back and watch old 80s territories, or All Japan footage from 1981. Most fans will remember seeing one or two Brody matches they were ok with and be happy to go on rep. That rep is absolutely connected with his death and its timing. I agree. Had Brody not died the way he had, I don't think he would be remembered the way he is now. Not that I don't agree with a lot of the points blueminister has made, though. Brody did have tons of charisma, natural ability and a great look. So much so that it has been copied too many times by the likes of Duggan, Nord, Foley, Terkay, etc. And as an aside...I like the DK vs. Tiger Mask matches...so pfffttthhh.

I don't think Brody ever had any serious discussions or negotiations with McMahon about coming into the WWF. His wife and Matysik don't mention it in the book, other than to say it would have probably happened at some point or another had he not died. I don't think Brody would have been willing to give up on Japan, and that would have been a condition of his signing with the WWF, I am sure. According to DK's book, he and Davey Boy had to agree to give up AJPW before McMahon would put the Tag Titles on them at WMII. One thing people do seem to agree on is that Baba was building towards Brody vs. Hansen when Brody was killed. I love the reaction of the crowd and announcers during this match. Check out the reaction at about 1:10 into that clip, when it becomes clear that Brody is going to tag in while Hansen is in the ring...you can tell AJPW fans were salivating at the potential of the Brody vs. Hansen dream match and rumor had it Baba was planning on giving it to them.

I was worried that my post would come across as if I was trying to justify or rationalize his murder. I wasn't, but I can see how it comes across like that. There is no excuse or justification for what happened to him, at all. However, there is an explanation for what happened to him. Part of that explanation involves his infamous behavior in locker rooms all over the world. My post was in reply to Ditch, saying how it is hard to be critical of Brody in some circles because of the fact he was murdered and the circumstances of his murder. The fact of the matter is that some people have used the circumstances of his death to try and re-write history or change the perceptions of Brody that existed prior to his murder. My point was that his murder was reprehensible and tragic, but it doesn't change the truth about who he was inside or outside the ring. I find the blatant attempts to deify and canonize the guy irritating - and I consider myself a fan.

That's the thing - Brody's case is unique because his murder was so closely tied in with his reputation and behavior. This is really delicate and I don't want to come across sounding like a total asshole here, (which I still might) but if you read that book, especially the first couple of chapters, it comes across as a real defense against anybody who has ever suggested that Brody was anything other than a victim of a random attack. I wasn't there, so this is all just information I have read or things I have seen or heard from interviews (especially with Tony Atlas, Terry Funk and Gary Hart) but from what I understand Jose Gonzalez was the booker in Puerto Rico and by all accounts, Brody was making his life miserable. Brody and Gonzalez had a history together, having worked together in the WWWF, where Brody used to allegedly treat Gonzalez like shit and stiff the hell out of him when they were in the ring together. When he ended up in the WWC, Brody was working for Gonzalez but apparently ignoring his directions and changing matches on the fly, in the ring. He was openly mocking Gonzalez in front of the other guys in the locker room, yelling at him and humiliating him in front of people, and going over his head all the time to Carlos Colon and Victor Jovica. There is even speculation that Brody was still stiffing Gonzalez in the ring so much that Gonzalez turned himself face so he wouldn't have to fight Brody. Rumor is that Gonzalez had a daughter who died, but he kept working instead of taking time off to mourn. At the same time, Colon and Jovica were putting pressure on him to "deal with" Brody and reign him in. Gonzalez snapped, and stabbed Brody to death in the locker room. The only point of contention has been whether or not Brody and Gonzalez were arguing at the time of the murder, or if Gonzalez just lost his shit and stabbed Brody unprovoked. The sad thing is, even Matysik doesn't dispute most of those facts. His point is that even though Brody had been bullying Gonzalez, it didn't justify murder, which of course is absolutely 100% true. However, I guess some people have pointed out over the years that Brody treated so many people like shit, and stiffed and bullied so many guys over so many years, it was bound to catch up to him at some point. Nobody reasonable has ever claimed Brody deserved to die, but the entire book by Matysik seems to be an attempt to justify Brody's behavior throughout his entire career, and excuse or explain it away. On top of that, you have a ton of guys (Mick Foley being one of the biggest ones) who never knew the guy that claim he was a huge influence. I think that anybody "in the business" who would try and be critical of Brody would most likely run into the argument that "No, he was a legend" or "Hey the poor guy was murdered" without taking into account the fact that the way he lived his life seems to have had something to do with why he was killed. Once again, I am not saying in any way, shape or form that he "deserved" to die but objectively I don't think you can ignore the precipitating factors and pretend it was a totally random act of violence, either. Even his own friends don't think that.

You hit the nail on the head with the word "deified." As a bunch of us discussed a while back here, Brody had Meltzer and Larry Matysik working full time from the moment Brody died to the present day to portray him as a legend among other things. On top of that, Matysik claims that he and Brody were Meltzer's first ever inside sources and were pretty much his first friends in the business, so I imagine that Meltzer still looks upon Brody as the Golden Goose. Bottom line is, if you read the book by Matysik, take some dramamine first, because it can get damn nauseating at times. Brody had a natural look, athletic gifts and God given abilities which could have made him a candidate for GOAT - easily. Look at the dude's size, flexibility and charisma. From where I sit, the problem was that he was so selfish (some would say paranoid) and refused to put other people over (or even sell for them) that it made the classic matches he was involved in few and far between. Considering his potential he could have been and should have been SO much better. I don't hate Brody, I have a ton of Brody matches in my collection, I enjoy his and Hansen's matches against The Funks, or his matches with Abby - for what they were. I would even go so far as to call myself a Brody fan, but I can be objective - I don't think he was even half as good as Matysik and Meltzer make him out to be. Once in a while somebody like Bobby Heenan will come out and say that Brody was a total asshole who made life miserable for people he worked with, but for most others it seems like a taboo subject to speak ill of a dead legend who has been deified from on high. That makes an objective conversation about his career difficult.

So is anybody following the whole "Kobashi retirement/bunch of big names might be leaving NOAH/NOAH might be folding or basically ending up as AJPW again" story, or is that being discussed elsewhere around here that I didn't notice?

I was at that show. Just saying. Carry on.