The Thread Killer

It's not so much the fact he was killed but the fact that him being killed resulted in a massive eulogy from Meltzer which helped to generate a myth of this great and legendary worker. The timing is arguably key: 1988. That was a time when a guy like Meltzer had a sizable audience but also a time when footage was not readily available and the tape trading scene wasn't what it was in, say, the late 90s. Received wisdom, once it is acquired, dies very hard. Look at Dynamite Kid vs. Tiger Mask. The idea that that is a great match is almost hard-wired into the minds of at least two generations of fans. If Brody doesn't die, he doesn't acquire this mythical status. He probably has a run in early 90s WCW or something and is remembered by lots of people as being a shitty brawling guy not too much better than Jim Duggan. If Brody does die, he doesn't get Meltzer working overtime to put him over as an all-time great. Point being: most fans don't go back and watch old 80s territories, or All Japan footage from 1981. Most fans will remember seeing one or two Brody matches they were ok with and be happy to go on rep. That rep is absolutely connected with his death and its timing. I agree. Had Brody not died the way he had, I don't think he would be remembered the way he is now. Not that I don't agree with a lot of the points blueminister has made, though. Brody did have tons of charisma, natural ability and a great look. So much so that it has been copied too many times by the likes of Duggan, Nord, Foley, Terkay, etc. And as an aside...I like the DK vs. Tiger Mask matches...so pfffttthhh.

I don't think Brody ever had any serious discussions or negotiations with McMahon about coming into the WWF. His wife and Matysik don't mention it in the book, other than to say it would have probably happened at some point or another had he not died. I don't think Brody would have been willing to give up on Japan, and that would have been a condition of his signing with the WWF, I am sure. According to DK's book, he and Davey Boy had to agree to give up AJPW before McMahon would put the Tag Titles on them at WMII. One thing people do seem to agree on is that Baba was building towards Brody vs. Hansen when Brody was killed. I love the reaction of the crowd and announcers during this match. Check out the reaction at about 1:10 into that clip, when it becomes clear that Brody is going to tag in while Hansen is in the ring...you can tell AJPW fans were salivating at the potential of the Brody vs. Hansen dream match and rumor had it Baba was planning on giving it to them.

I was worried that my post would come across as if I was trying to justify or rationalize his murder. I wasn't, but I can see how it comes across like that. There is no excuse or justification for what happened to him, at all. However, there is an explanation for what happened to him. Part of that explanation involves his infamous behavior in locker rooms all over the world. My post was in reply to Ditch, saying how it is hard to be critical of Brody in some circles because of the fact he was murdered and the circumstances of his murder. The fact of the matter is that some people have used the circumstances of his death to try and re-write history or change the perceptions of Brody that existed prior to his murder. My point was that his murder was reprehensible and tragic, but it doesn't change the truth about who he was inside or outside the ring. I find the blatant attempts to deify and canonize the guy irritating - and I consider myself a fan.

That's the thing - Brody's case is unique because his murder was so closely tied in with his reputation and behavior. This is really delicate and I don't want to come across sounding like a total asshole here, (which I still might) but if you read that book, especially the first couple of chapters, it comes across as a real defense against anybody who has ever suggested that Brody was anything other than a victim of a random attack. I wasn't there, so this is all just information I have read or things I have seen or heard from interviews (especially with Tony Atlas, Terry Funk and Gary Hart) but from what I understand Jose Gonzalez was the booker in Puerto Rico and by all accounts, Brody was making his life miserable. Brody and Gonzalez had a history together, having worked together in the WWWF, where Brody used to allegedly treat Gonzalez like shit and stiff the hell out of him when they were in the ring together. When he ended up in the WWC, Brody was working for Gonzalez but apparently ignoring his directions and changing matches on the fly, in the ring. He was openly mocking Gonzalez in front of the other guys in the locker room, yelling at him and humiliating him in front of people, and going over his head all the time to Carlos Colon and Victor Jovica. There is even speculation that Brody was still stiffing Gonzalez in the ring so much that Gonzalez turned himself face so he wouldn't have to fight Brody. Rumor is that Gonzalez had a daughter who died, but he kept working instead of taking time off to mourn. At the same time, Colon and Jovica were putting pressure on him to "deal with" Brody and reign him in. Gonzalez snapped, and stabbed Brody to death in the locker room. The only point of contention has been whether or not Brody and Gonzalez were arguing at the time of the murder, or if Gonzalez just lost his shit and stabbed Brody unprovoked. The sad thing is, even Matysik doesn't dispute most of those facts. His point is that even though Brody had been bullying Gonzalez, it didn't justify murder, which of course is absolutely 100% true. However, I guess some people have pointed out over the years that Brody treated so many people like shit, and stiffed and bullied so many guys over so many years, it was bound to catch up to him at some point. Nobody reasonable has ever claimed Brody deserved to die, but the entire book by Matysik seems to be an attempt to justify Brody's behavior throughout his entire career, and excuse or explain it away. On top of that, you have a ton of guys (Mick Foley being one of the biggest ones) who never knew the guy that claim he was a huge influence. I think that anybody "in the business" who would try and be critical of Brody would most likely run into the argument that "No, he was a legend" or "Hey the poor guy was murdered" without taking into account the fact that the way he lived his life seems to have had something to do with why he was killed. Once again, I am not saying in any way, shape or form that he "deserved" to die but objectively I don't think you can ignore the precipitating factors and pretend it was a totally random act of violence, either. Even his own friends don't think that.

You hit the nail on the head with the word "deified." As a bunch of us discussed a while back here, Brody had Meltzer and Larry Matysik working full time from the moment Brody died to the present day to portray him as a legend among other things. On top of that, Matysik claims that he and Brody were Meltzer's first ever inside sources and were pretty much his first friends in the business, so I imagine that Meltzer still looks upon Brody as the Golden Goose. Bottom line is, if you read the book by Matysik, take some dramamine first, because it can get damn nauseating at times. Brody had a natural look, athletic gifts and God given abilities which could have made him a candidate for GOAT - easily. Look at the dude's size, flexibility and charisma. From where I sit, the problem was that he was so selfish (some would say paranoid) and refused to put other people over (or even sell for them) that it made the classic matches he was involved in few and far between. Considering his potential he could have been and should have been SO much better. I don't hate Brody, I have a ton of Brody matches in my collection, I enjoy his and Hansen's matches against The Funks, or his matches with Abby - for what they were. I would even go so far as to call myself a Brody fan, but I can be objective - I don't think he was even half as good as Matysik and Meltzer make him out to be. Once in a while somebody like Bobby Heenan will come out and say that Brody was a total asshole who made life miserable for people he worked with, but for most others it seems like a taboo subject to speak ill of a dead legend who has been deified from on high. That makes an objective conversation about his career difficult.

So is anybody following the whole "Kobashi retirement/bunch of big names might be leaving NOAH/NOAH might be folding or basically ending up as AJPW again" story, or is that being discussed elsewhere around here that I didn't notice?

I was at that show. Just saying. Carry on.

I am way out of the loop on my puro news, so I was surprised to hear that Takeshi Rikio retired at only 39 due to serious neck injuries. The last thing NOAH needs is to lose another main event level guy, but I am heartened to see a star smart enough to understand that there is more to life than wrestling, and get out while he still has his health. I wish Misawa had done the same, and I wish Kobashi would get that message too.

I remember Kane having at least one very good (not great, but very good) match with Kurt Angle, prior to their WM18 match. I am fairly sure the date of the match was November 1, 2001. I do recall being subsequently disappointed with their WM18 match based on the quality of this one, as were Kane and Angle, reportedly. Also, I remember really enjoying the brief but memorable Brothers of Destruction vs. Rikishi & Haku feud. I remember there being at least one old school wild brawl that ended up being a no contest, and a first blood match (which research shows me was on February 1, 2001) as well. The basis of this feud was how Kane and Taker were eliminated from the Rumble that year, and then Rikishi and Haku costing them the WWE Tag Titles. It wasn't a long drawn out feud, but it reminded me of the old Brody & Hansen vs. The Funk Brothers matches I loved from All Japan, just out of control Tag Team brawls. My nostalgia probably colored my perception of their quality, mind you. I am not claiming these were great matches, but I remember them being quite good.

Later on in this thread, when I have time I am going to post about my first house show, and some other noteworthy shows I've been to, but let me tell you about the time I saw Lex Luger beat Ric Flair fair and square in a world title match, that few people ever heard about. NWA @ The CNE Coliseum Toronto, Ontario - June 27, 1990 This show was noteworthy for a bunch of reasons. Firstly, since Jack Tunney was the Toronto promoter, the WWF had Toronto locked up tight for years and no other promoter could ever get anywhere close to running a show in Toronto. There is an outstanding book which partially covers this topic called "Drawing Heat" which I cannot recommend enough. It is the story of the infamous "Bearman" Dave McKigney who ran independent shows in and around the Toronto area. The Bearman was famous because he used to wrestle a bear, which once got loose and mauled his wife to death. He kept on wrestling, and was eventually killed in the same car accident that killed Adrian Adonis. If interested, you can now get an updated version of the book at Highspots, including a new chapter about the death of McKigney and Adonis. I have the original, but it was out of print for years. It gives an interesting insight into the Tunney family, and Original Sheik and how nuts he was too. So this show was one of the first that broke the WWF stranglehold on Toronto, so about 3,000 hardcore fans show up - not as many as the NWA/WCW were expecting. Why? The NWA/WCW had no current TV shows running in the Toronto market. Like...ZIP. Zilch. Nada. I found about the show from an ad in the paper. If you had a satellite dish (and in 1990, who did?) you could get TBS, but aside from that, all you could get was old re-runs of the WCW Power Hour run at 1:00 am, and they were MONTHS behind. Like, they were behind the Apter mags, that's how out of date they were. So the ring announcer tries to hype up the crowd, reminding them that you can catch WCW action on the Superstation, and the crowd starts booing him and throwing shit at him. I almost died laughing. They booked the show in Toronto, and their own ring announcer didn't know that Toronto fans couldn't get the Superstation, and we didn't get current NWA/WCW TV. That explained the small crowd, and why the crowd was dead for some of the matches...they had no idea who some of these people were, or only knew about them from the Apter mags, like my friends and I. Anyhow, as for the show... Mean Mark defeated Nick DeCarlo - first time I saw The Undertaker live, I guess! Brian Pillman defeated Dutch Mantell - Pillman was over HUGE from being on Stampede Wrestling for the years leading up to this, and Mantell played off it brilliantly, getting on the microphone and bashing Canada, and Pillman, etc. Tracey Smothers & Steve Armstrong defeated NWA US Tag Team Champions Bobby Eaton & Stan Lane in a non-title match Rick & Scott Steiner defeated NWA Tag Team Champions Doom via disqualification The Junkyard Dog defeated NWA TV Champion Arn Anderson in a non-title match - JYD was always over in Toronto but he was so damn big by this point he could barely move. NWA US Champion Lex Luger defeated NWA World Champion Ric Flair in what turned out to be a non-title match... So get this...Luger gets Flair to submit in the torture rack, and the crowd loses it's shit...since this was NOT announced as a non-title match ahead of time. Then the ring announcer gets on the microphone and announces that the NWA World Heavyweight Championship CANNOT CHANGE HANDS IN CANADA. There was almost a riot, I swear. Good thing nobody told Harley Race that back on February 6, 1977 when he beat Terry Funk for the NWA World Heavweight Championship in Toronto. The next time WCW came to town, they drew around 500.

I hate to disagree Marty, but I distinctly remember the man being named the Invasion and Alliance MVP.

As I recall, the Main Event at Uncensored 1999, a Steel Cage match was quite good. If I remember correctly (and I might not be, since it was over 12 years ago and I haven't seen it since the night I saw it live) the match was a double turn, with Flair turning heel, Hogan turning face, and Flair going over. I recall being shocked at how much I enjoyed that match because I agree with DBA...Flair/Hogan matches usually disappointed, which they shouldn't have. I always chalked it up to Hogan being jealous of Flair's GOAT rep and not wanting him to look good - but anyhow - I remember Uncensored 99 being the exception to the Hogan/Flair "bad match" rule and being pretty good. If I am wrong or if others have seen it and disagree, feel free to chime in.

I have seen online today some fans saying that there is no way Brock could have legitimately lost that fight, so it must have been fixed. I have also seen the conspiracy theory floated that Lesnar threw the fight so he could back to the WWE and fight UT at WM, after their post match confrontation. There is so much wrong with both those theories that they call for the biggest facepalm gif in history.

Ugh, I was at that show. It was awful. There were a bunch of no shows, and I remember because of it, Koko B. Ware had to wrestle twice. *shudders* My favorite part was when Duggan tried to get a "USA" chant going...when he was fighting two Americans and a Canadian...in Toronto.

I suspect some of these releases may have also been Wellness related.

Well, we all can't be blessed with a face like that handsome devil, Gabe. Having said that, I have never heard a story about Mil Mascaras that paints him in a flattering light. In the post-Foley wrestling book boom, the one guarantee you had was that if they told a story about Mil Mascaras, it was negative. Not that his ethnicity would have anything to do with that. A jerk is a jerk, regardless of race, age, or sexual orientation.

I wouldn't say that Eddie Gilbert has been considered a great one, has he? If anything, people always seem to see him as a guy who had potential to be better, but blew it by being unpredictable and wasting his life on drugs. From what I have read (so it could be totally wrong) Gilbert had a good mind for the business and could have been a good booker under the right circumstances, but his own self destructive behavior always prevented him from accomplishing what he could have. From what I recall, he was fairly well known for starting off well, but then getting into disputes with owners and promoters before he could finish what he started. As far as his in ring ability, I would imagine that he'd be best remembered for his feud with Tommy Rich, or with Lawler or maybe his time in Mid South in 1987...I know his hardcore matches with Foley on the independent circuit got a lot of praise, but they're more legendary from word of mouth and Foley talking about them in his book, aren't they? I don't even know if they're available on video. Bottom line, I always saw Eddie Gilbert as somebody was was respected to a degree for his mind, not for his in ring accomplishments, which were negligible, and he was ultimately seen as wasted potential, not a great one who died too young. But once again, that's just my perception.

It doesn't help that Brody himself, Matysik, and Meltzer all helped perpetuate the story that Brody was shooting on the inexperienced, unprofessional rookie...when it is pretty damn clear who was being unprofessional in that match...and it wasn't Luger.

I should clarify...Ron Bass tells a story in his Shoot Interview about how he and Brody were both carrying on a sexual relationship with the same female fan in Japan during the same time period but she was trying to hide it from both of them, and they used to joke about it with each other. He also tells a story about partying with Brody that ends up with Bass throwing up out a window. Nothing is suggested about hard drugs, but Bass's story indicates that Brody did drink and mess around with women on the road. Also, I remember Bob Barnett once saying that he knew that Brody had been up all night partying before his infamous cage match with Luger, where Brody refused to sell anything so Luger just climbed out of the cage and left. In the book, Matysik makes it sound like Luger wouldn't sell for Brody, so Brody turned the tables on him, stopped selling for Luger, and stiffed him in order to "teach him a lesson." Another example of the rose colored glasses of Matysik when looking at Brody. I've seen the match in question, and from what I saw, Brody wouldn't sell a single thing Luger did from the get go. Also, Luger claims he and Brody had it out in the dressing room after the match, and that Brody said it was nothing personal...whereas Matysik claims Luger fled the arena in terror. In the book, it is strongly implied that Brody spent all his time in his room eating cold green beans and tuna straight out of the can, pining away for his family. I'm not saying he wasn't a good father...but sounds like he had his share of fun on the road. Barbara Goodish even mentions that women would call their house claiming to be Brody's girlfriend, but that they did that because promoters would put them up to it, to try and get revenge on Brody for all the problems he caused them. The book mentions that Brody tried steroids early in his career, but they made him really sick so he stopped. He took aspirin before every match, but that was due to pain he had in his joints from doing his big knee drop. (I had heard he took the aspirin to thin his blood out so he'd bleed better.) The book also admits that Brody was a regular pot smoker...but he did it to fight the constant pain he was in.

I've read it. It's not a great read, and it can be quite frustrating in parts. Matysik was a close personal friend of Brody, and an out-and-out Brody apologist, so a lot of stuff gets left out, glossed over, or told from Brody's perspective only. The book includes tons of quotes from people like Gary Hart and Meltzer who go to great lengths to excuse Brody's legendary backstage behavior. One quote that gets used multiple times is "that is just a locker room legend, Frank (Brody) never did that...and if he DID, then some asshole promoter must have given him a reason to act that way." At times he actually has the nerve to try and portray Brody as some kind of locker room role model who is standing up for the little guy against the evil promoters, if only others had been as brave as him. The funny thing is, that even friends of Brody's like Stan Hansen and Terry Funk have to admit in some quotes that Brody was a pain in the ass to deal with, but that the "real person" Frank Goodish was a nice guy. Even still Matysik's writing style is annoying, melodramatic, and he is also outright delusional about Brody's actual in ring abilities and what he would have accomplished had he not died. There is a chapter devoted to what might have happened had Brody lived, and Matysik basically had him headlining Wrestlemania. Stuff like Brody's refusal to sell, his refusal to do jobs, his drug use, and his womanizing all get left out. Of course, his widow co-authored the book, so they aren't going to sit there and talk about Brody partying or all the rats he banged. If you want stories like that, you should check out Ron Bass's Highspots Shoot Interview. The good thing about Barbara Goodish being the co-author is that she provides a lot of personal photos and some interesting background on who he was outside the ring. It's a pity that Matysik couldn't be objective and admit some of the things about Brody that are pretty much common knowledge now. If you read between the lines, you can see that he was a selfish asshole 99% of the time, but that sure isn't the way the book portrays him. Ironically, I am a Brody fan. I grew up watching his brawls with Abdullah in Quebec where Abdullah was actually a face and Brody was the heel, believe it or not. I also love his tag matches with Hansen against the Funks and some of his matches with Jumbo from AJPW. I just know that he was a dick, and that you're rarely if ever going to see him get pinned.

From 411: Shaquille O’Neal To Host Raw Next Week Posted by Larry Csonka on 07.20.2009 It was announced on Raw that the special celebrity host next week would be NBA star Shaquille O'Neal.

The other issue is that very few celebrities are going to want to appear on WWE programming. It's not exactly a sign that your career is on a huge upswing, I imagine that for agents, it's about as prestigious as telling your client you booked them at the auto show in the booth next to Adam West and Burt Ward. If there are famous people of any level that want to appear on WWE programming, then I would imagine WWE will jump on it. A lot of those names Loss mentioned (who for the record I have never heard of...what the hell is a Lady Gaga?!) probably would rather die than be seen on WWE programming.

I have been a ZZ Top fan for a long time...before they even had their heyday in the 80's...and I am very interested to see what Rick Rubin does for them. This is the guy that engineered Johnny Cash's comeback, talked him into doing cover versions which resulted in songs like "Hurt" and generally seems to have a good idea what will work and what won't. Rubin might put ZZ Top back on the map again...but even if he doesn't, I guess my point is that on the C list of famous people, they're not too far removed from the guy who played Scott Evil, honestly. sek makes a good point too...ZZ Top are actual fans of the WWE. I have seen them on television at shows tons of times. Since they already know and follow the product, it's not just a blatant plug for them, they actually want to be there I would imagine. I wouldn't be surprised to see guys like Shaq end up doing it too.

I think he knows that if he provided links, that would be feeding into some of these people. I do believe he is talking about people like the geniuses that leave comments at 411, and things like that. The RAW report on 411 and many of the comments after it are mocking ZZ Top. For whatever reason, some people check that site out...Mick Foley actually lashed out at them recently.