The Thread Killer

I'm not going to argue that PRIDE doesn't pay more than UFC, because they clearly do...but I think there is more to it than that. Let's not forget that PRIDE does not test fighters for steroids (which is fine because I don't think they're illegal in Japan) but UFC does because they have to as mandated by the athletic commission. I honestly think that the major reason PRIDE has not sent any fighters to UFC, and the reason PRIDE still hasn't run the show in Vegas that they've been talking about for YEARS is because the PRIDE guys would have to piss in a cup, and DSE doesn't want that.

Oh my gawd, finally somebody agrees with me about Mir. UFC was promoting him as the Golden Boy, (which is why I loved it when Ian Freeman knocked his ass OUT) but I never saw him tested against anybody really good...mind you Pride has all the top heavyweights locked up. I think that Dana White badly wants a poster boy. For a while it was Tito, and he wanted it to be Mir. Mir was young, good looking, cocky, handsome, and from Vegas so he was over with the fans. I honestly think if you put him in there with somebody like Nog, Cro-Cop, or Fedor, he'd have been destroyed in two minutes. I always said about Mir...don't believe the hype.

Like Dave Fucking Batista knows what is and isn't wrestling. He's a juiced up dope who's about one or two more injuries away from being a historical footnote. I'm no huge fan of spot-fu, but the idea that Batista of all damn people is in any position to judge what wrestling is, that's what pisses me off. Who the hell does he think he is, Lou Freaking Thesz? Try having a match that doesn't suck, roidboy...then tell me about wrestling.

I agree with all of your points...but I must say that Abyss's music and Sabin's music is awesome.

I have a legit fondness for the DK/Tiger Mask Sayama Series. If I was to pick the greatest LHW of all time...I would probably have to agree about Liger, based on the length of his career and number of classic matches that I have seen. If you love LHW action, you really should check out NOAH. They have such an awesome Jr. Heavyweight Division right now...KENTA, Kotaro Suzuki (Mushiking Terry), Yoshinobu Kanemaru, Takashi Sugiura, Naomichi Marufuji, SUWA, Ricky Marvin, El Oriental, Abysmal Negro, and you could probably even throw Mohammed Yone and Go Shiosaki in there too, although they usually compete with the Heavyweights.

I have. It's awesome. I remember the first time I saw it, when the bell rang at the end, I said to my friend "There is no way that was an hour...there were no serious rest holds. They shaved time." We went back and rewatched it later with the counter on the VCR, and it clocked out to 62 minutes. John Williams from tOa said this about that match: If you can get your hands on this match, do it.

He does get a reaction...everybody hates him, just not in the way that heels are supposed to be hated. TNA fans seem to hate him in a "get off my TV" sort of way, not a "you're a bad guy" kinda way. As far as AMW, they're sucks. They whine all the time on television, and the only people who cheer for them are teenage girls...so that's probably the reason why nobody cares that they're heels now...nobody really seems to like them anyhow.

Am I wrong to think they did this so they can have him drop it back to Raven, or to somebody else on the Spike debut show?

Amazon.ca does indeed ship to the states...and you'll probably save money on it too.

In my opinion, the best place for MMA info is Sherdog. For example look HERE for a good rundown of all of the UFC shows. They also have an awesome fighter database with won loss records etc. Just beware the forums.

I know they aren't considered "the big leagues" but aren't some of Race's students in NOAH? Now that Modest & Morgan's Pro-Wrestling IRON is closing, I hear that Race's school will be the gaigen home base for NOAH...which is why Kenta and KENTA are heading there.

I agree. The guy runs the show and is very involved in this whole process. It's his baby, he has every right to be on it...it's not like he's all over the actual PPV's or anything. He's the guy who make the decisions, so it's logical to have him there. As far as the show this week? WEAK. I mean it was produced well, but two guys quitting set a bad tone, and the injury couldn't be helped...although you have to wonder if putting them through two 3 hour workouts may have contributed to the problem.

Here the thing though...it's a FIGHT. It's even an entertaining fight. I was wowed when I watched it...but isn't a the point of Mixed Martial Arts to showcase Martial Arts skills? I didn't see any real skills showcased in that fight...I just two guys repeatedly punching each other in the head. This is not about me deciding what is and isn't MMA, it's about what MMA really is. My problem is that Frye vs. Tak is exactly that kind of fight that gives ammo to the idiots who don't understand MMA as a sport, call it barbaric, and want to see it banned or off television. These people don't appreciate the training, strategy, skill, and knowlege of human anatomy you need to have in order to be an MMA fighter. I honestly don't think MMA is about pounding the hell out of your opponent (that's boxing.) It's about out-thinking your opponent, finding his weakness, and exploiting it. In my opinion, Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera is the greatest fighter alive today, because he can do it all. He can stand and bang, but he can also tap you out. Look at his fight with Cro-Cop. That fight showed what happens when you put a well rounded Martial Artist in the ring with a striker. I love Takayama as a wrestler. I loved his GHC title shot against Kobashi last year...but the man is not a Mixed Martial Artist. He's a brawler...and in my opinion (and this is just my opinion) the sport doesn't need guys getting in there and beating the hell out of each other in the head. All it takes is some moron like John McCain to see that, and MMA is off PPV again. I think the sport is evolving...past those kinds of things, that's all.

See, that's not a Martial Arts fight. That's two morons with no style taking turns hitting each other in the head. Anybody could do that. All that proved is that either it was worked (which with PRIDE is always a possibility...especially if a Japanese Fan Favorite is involved) or that both of them have really thick skulls and are hard to knock out. That was basically like early UFC...two untrained people with no technique clobbering each other. If you're going to talk about a probably worked PRIDE slugfest involving Frye, at least go with his match against Shamrock at PRIDE 19. At least that one had some leglocks and whatnot, instead of non-stop blows to the head. If you want a real MMA fight...with skill and technique, see Carlos Newton vs. Sakuraba from PRIDE 3 (6/24/1998) for an example.

I found his series with Sabin in TNA to be pretty damn cool. Other than that, I found him to be rather blah.

Nicely done, Sek. I actually laughed out loud at that one.

I was a hardcore TNA mark for quite some time. When they got the IMPACT slot on FSN, I stopped ordering the weekly PPV's, because I wasn't interested in paying ten bucks a week to hear ads for a show I couldn't see. (My satellite provider doesn't carry FSN.) Now that they're coming to Spike, I decided to give them another shot. Here's my 2.5 cents on the show... Chris Sabin, Sonjay Dutt & Shark Boy vs. Simon Diamond, Elix Skipper & David Young Holy CRAP. When I last saw David Young, he was doing some losing streak gimmick, and he had a big pot belly. He has apparently started the Triple H workout program (insert needle in your ass 3 to 5 times a week...repeat) and he is some buffed up. Also, when I was watching, Skipper was getting a push, and that seems to have died. Also, Simon Diamond was called "Irish" Pat Kenney. Things have changed. I admit that the Shark Boy gimmick makes me laugh, so I liked this match. It was a quick, inoffensive opener. Nothing spectacular, but too short to be bad. Sabin pins Skipper for the win, and afterward Simon Diamond and Skipper get into a heated argument. Alex Shelley vs. Shocker This was my first exposure to either guy, and I was impressed. Shocker seems to be pretty damn good on the mat, especially with inventive submissions. These guys are apparently 1-1 against each other...Shocker beat Shelley at the last PPV, but Shelley beat Shocker in the Super X Cup Tournament. This was a solid match, good mat wrestling, nice back and forth action. This match alone was better than anything I saw on the GAB. Shelley wins. Abyss with James Mitchell vs. Lance Hoyt James Mitchell is GOLD on the mic...GOLD I tell you. He's perfect to be teamed with Abyss. Hoyt is CRAZY over with these people. Last time I saw him, his name was Dallas and he was teamed with Kid Kash. This started off as your standard big man match...and then kicked it up a notch for the last few minutes, right when I assumed it was over! A very good match which surprised me considering the participants. Abyss goes over but needs two Black Hole Slams to do it. He looks great, he's dropped some weight and got some new ring attire. This match had about three HOLY SHIT spots in the closing moments, most notably a Van Terminatior from Hoyt! These guys in TNA are really using the smaller 6 Sided Ring to their advantage. Kip James & Monty Brown vs. Konnan & Ron "The Truth" Killings This was the worst match of the night, but at least it had the whole "who will the Road Dogg side with... 3LK or Billy Gunn" angle going in. They did a great job of reviewing the whole angle before the match for those of us who hadn't seen it. Gunn looked motivated here believe it or not, and was actually very funny playing the over the top heel. Monty Brown looked bored. Killings looked good, and Konan (new spelling I see) looked injured. 3LK wins with help from the D-O-double-G. Meh. I've seen worse. Christopher Daniels vs. Austin Aries Apparently Aries won some fan poll online to get this match. He was pretty good, nothing spectacular, but not the usual independant spot-fu I've come to expect from a lot of these generic indy guys. Man, Daniels is good. His facial expressions and ability to play to the crowd is just out there. The fans were into this match HUGE with dueling chants. Daniels wins. Solid match. Sean Waltman vs. Jerry Lynn Once again, TNA does a great job of hyping this match and telling everybody the history between both guys...including clips of them fighting in Global 13 years ago. Lynn is very popular with TNA fans, known as "The Pioneer Of The X Division." This is his return match after a year's absence due to a shoulder injury. I went into this match expecting to hate it. I can't stand Waltman, and Lynn is hit and miss for me. I have to say, this match won me over big time. This was a very, very good match and considering it had Sean Freaking Waltman involved...man that's saying something. Lynn wins, and Waltman attacks him after the match, inspiring Mike Tenay to do his best Jim Ross imitation as he freaks out. I can't believe I'm saying this...but Waltman looked good. I'd like to see these guys fight again. Now I understand why their feud is talked about...they have chemistry believe it or not. This match had a couple of HOLY SHIT moments, the best being a spot when Jerry Lynn suplexed Waltman to the outside! Team Canada vs. The Naturals and AMW This match was okay...and had a couple of serious spots in it, including one where Eric Young did a face plant to the outside, from the top rope. Serious HOLY SHIT territory. I find eight man tags are usually pretty cluttered, and this was no exception...but it wasn't bad or anything. Just too much going on and no real chance to tell a story. Team Canada wins which leads to arguments between AMW and The Naturals. Okay...these guys were feuding months ago when I stopped watching TNA...seriously. And I still don't like AMW. They play very whiny faces, and they're pretty boys which doesn't endear them to the male fans. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe Not to sound like a broken record...but TNA did a great job updating us on both the entire Super X Cup Tournament, but also the momentum of Samoa Joe since his arrival in TNA. I'm big fans of both guys, so I was looking forward to this. Christopher Daniels was on commentary, and he was GOLD. Man, this guy is awesome, and I'm glad he's finally getting the chance to shine as the X Division Champion. When I was watching before, he wasn't getting any microphone time. He is now, and it's paying off huge. I think TNA might finally be the place for his talents to shine. This was the match of the night, hands down. The crowd was actually chanting "This Is Awesome" during this match. Styles brought his "A Game" which for him is really saying something, and Joe looked motivated and hit all his moves perfectly. They are really using Joe to his best potential in my opinion. This was going very well, until it was marred by a run in from Daniels, as he attempted to lay out both guys, and it backfired. I agree that the run in ruined the flow of the match, but from a booking standpoint, it made sense. Styles is pretty much the franchise in TNA (sorry Jarrett) and they didn't want him to lose without some wonkiness. Joe was pushed to his limits, and came out on top. Man, this was a helluva match. Raven & Sabu vs. Jeff Jarrett & Rhino This match had the added drama of the stipulation that if Jarrett pinned Raven, he got the World Title Match at the next PPV, but if Raven pinned Jarrett, Double J wouldn't get any title shots for a YEAR. Obviously, this increased the tension nicely, since there were a lot of people who would love to see that. Just like in the X Division Matches and Abyss vs. Hoyt, the smaller ring was made for Sabu. He got in all of his trademark spots, and didn't botch any that I recall. Raven looks good. He's dropped some weight and make a great champion...and HOLY CRAP is Rhino ever BUFFED UP. Nice spot where Raven slices Jarrett open with a pizza cutter. This was a clusterfuck but in a good way, where it was a sloppy old school brawl all over the place. It reminded me of The Funks vs. The Sheik and Abdullah back in the day...no strategy, no wrestling but it sure kept your interest. Oh yeah, Jeff Hardy is back. He did a run in and hit his Swanton on Abyss who ran in to attack Raven. I guess the Hardy/Raven feud is still on. Rhino gores Raven through a table, and gets the pin...so HE gets the shot at the next PPV! Double J is NOT happy! Closing Thoughts This was an excellent show. The Waltman/Lynn and Styles/Joe matches were both very good matches, and aside from the 3LK stuff, there wasn't a really bad match on the card. Hoyt/Abyss was way better than it had any right to be, and Shocker/Shelley and Daniels/Aries were both solid matches. You know what I liked about this show? It was a clear alternative to the WWE. It didn't look like a WWE show. Universal Studios is an interesting looking venue, unlike a generic arena, and I don't care what people say about the 6 sided ring...that and the X Division where guys are actually allowed to use their signature spots makes it DIFFERENT. The Spike Deal was announced, and all night Jarrett was going around backstage claiming that the released WWE guys were going to be coming in and stealing all the jobs from the TNA guys now that TNA has TV deal. He made a not so veiled reference to the Dudleys coming in as well, when he told AMW that some new tag teams would be coming in...some good, some not so good...and some DUDS. I can't help but wonder if they're planning some sort of stable of the former WWE guys vs. the TNA guys or something? Man, Tenay is so much better than JR now it's not even funny. It's not even that Tenay has gotten better...it's that JR has got worse. Don West still needs to take a chill pill, but I have to admit I enjoy his enthusiasm for the product, because it comes across as REAL and sincere. You can tell that this guy really loves TNA, he's not just a shill like Schiavone back in the day. It cracks me up to see him jumping up in excitement during matches, it really does. This was not the best PPV I've ever seen or anything, but I've seen every WWE Pay Per View since WM21, and in my opinion, this was better than any of them. These guys looked very motivated, and there seemed to be a real air of excitement about the October 1st Spike TV debut. Maybe it was because I got to see Cruiserweight Style wrestling without any restrictions placed on the workers (there was a serious amount of HOLY SHIT spots on this show) or maybe it was because there was a lot of wrestling and no retarded angles about child custody, or diva searches...but I really liked this show.

I saw the show, and it was damn good, way better than any WWE PPV I've seen lately. I might do a brief review later if I have time.

I meant to mention, that is an excellent point, Charles. I honestly think that in terms of Bret's regaining his popularity with American fans, and even with Canadian fans, Vince did Bret a HUGE favor. Make no mistake about it...WCW was NOT popular up here...not even close...ever. When both were running on TSN, even when RAW was getting killed in the ratings down there, it was beating Nitro in Canada. (Granted...Nitro had a shit time slot...but still.) If Bret had simply jobbed, or handed over the title to whoever, and then gone to WCW, he would have had to deal with a huge backlash from many die hard WWF fans who hated WCW. Keep in mind, many of the fans who filled the Silverdome for WMIII were from the province of Ontario. We're very close to Detroit, when you look at it. Also, don't forget the previous record holder, "The Big Event" in 1986, where Hogan fought Orndorff for the first time after the heel turn. That was in Toronto, and it drew like 62,000 fans. Canadians love them their WWF/E.

The whole difference between a Celebrity and Hero point is interesting. I agree that there is, and should be a huge difference. That would be an good topic for discussion elsewhere. I don't mean to speak ill of Bret Hart, either. He seemed to be a very kind and patient man at the Wrestling With Shadows premeire. He has also done an almost incalcuable amount of charity work in Canada. The entire Hart family are indeed legends in the town of Calgary. I don't want to take away from that. I know why Bret was so popular. The thing is with Bret, is that he was never really playing a character. He yelled in his promos, but other than that, what you saw was what you got with him, in or out of character. He was pretty much a straight up wrestler...that's his real name and everything. So, people tended to take him more seriously than somebody could take The Rock, The Undertaker, or Hulk Hogan, because Hart seemed to have an everyman type of personality, whereas those other names come across as larger than life. I am willing to bet that if Bret had jobbed clean to Michaels that night, the fans would have freaked. Canadian fans hate Shawn Michaels, and they hate Earl Hebner. (Amusingly enough...they seem to have forgiven Vince for the most part.) Shawn stuck the Canadian flag up his nose, and humped it on television. He's also said some very unflattering things about the Hart family, (especially Stu) and Canada in general. So if Bret had dropped that strap in Montreal that night...there would have been some serious anger. However...I honestly don't think there would have been a fuss if he had dropped it the following night in Ottawa to somebody else, say The Undertaker or whoever. I know for a fact...because he said it right in front of me...Bret's first choice was to walk down to the ring, and hand the belt over. I honestly think if he had done that, he would have got a ton of "you sold out" heat...Canada or no Canada. The bottom line is this...Bret Hart is probably the most popular Canadian Wrestler in history (I suppose some argument could be made about Whipper Billy Watson back in his day) but at the end of the day, while most Canadian Wrestling fans I know admire him...they don't consider him a "hero." They're proud that he represented Canada with class, and dignity, which is next to impossible to have in the world of Pro Wrestling. When I think of Canadian Heroes, I think of Dr. Frederick Banting who discovered insulin and it's effect on diabetics. I think of Dr. Roberta Bondar. I know that many Canadians admire and respect our veterans from World War II. I don't think it's any big secret that many Canadians have resented the U.S.A. for waiting so long to get involved in WWII, and the fact that it looked like the only reason they did was due to Pearl Harbor. I know it is a point of pride for many Canadians that our country went to fight the Nazi menace much earlier than our friends to the South. If you asked most Canadians who they thought our greatest hero was, I'm betting they would say Terry Fox. Terry Fox is a household name in Canada, and is considered a National Hero for good reason. As I said...and I wasn't kidding...many Canadians feel that Paul Henderson is one of our greatest heroes due to his immortal performance in the 1972 Summit Series. Most Canadians live, breathe, eat, and sleep hockey...and that series and that goal were pretty much the apex of National Pride in Canada. For more info about this, and a summary of what it meant to Canada, CLICK HERE. That should explain how important that moment was to Canada, and why today it is still felt to be one of the defining moments in Canadian History, 33 years later. So a Pro Wrestler who refused to job to Shawn Michaels, while a popular and sympathetic figure is hardly considered a hero. Anybody who says that really doesn't understand the way Bret Hart is viewed by Canadians. He's loved, but in the end, he's just a guy in spandex pretending to beat people up, and even the biggest marks realize that deep down.

Uhhh...maybe Marty and any other Canadians who might post here can back me up...but Bret Hart is HARDLY considered a National Hero. He's probably the most popular Canadian Wrestler in history, and out west he's very famous. I'd say in Calgary, or even in Alberta he might be a household name...but he's not a national hero. You guys need to understand that Canada and the U.S.A. are totally different in terms of national identity. Canada is very regional. This explains our electoral results. Different regions elect different parties. So somebody who is popular or known in Western Canada might get a "who?" from somebody out on the East Coast. If you walked up to somebody in Toronto and said who is Bret Hart, they'd probably think you said "Brett Hull" wrong. If you said "Paul Henderson" practically everybody would know who he was. Being popular with wrestling fans, and being a National Hero are two totally different things. If Canada has any national heroes, they're probably hockey players. Interesting thread/discussion by the way.

I attended the World Premiere of Wrestling with Shadows in Toronto. Bret was there, for a QnA. He stated that he was not willing to drop the title in Canada, and that he wanted to wait until the next week. He also said he would not have dropped the title to Michaels at all. He would have been willing to drop the belt to the Undertaker or pretty much "anybody else" but what he said he really wanted to do was just hand the title over. Also, trust me on this one...Bret is as popular as ever in Canada...maybe even MORE than he was before due to Montreal.

With the "creative" process the way it is right now in the WWE...how could anybody be OVERLY critical?

The plane that crashed was coming in from France, so I doubt he was on that one...but who knows. Maybe he came from France, to Toronto and then went to WWE headquarters.

Take comfort in the fact that while Dusty's booking is wonky...it usually involves wrestling. Anything he books couldn't be much worse than the shit they're cranking out right now.