The Thread Killer

For my next two picks I will select Rocky and Bob Della Serra.

Maple Leaf Wrestling selects: #17: Iron Mike Sharpe #18: Sweet Daddy Siki

I have to go out for a few hours and I won't be around for a while, so I am going to announce my next two picks ahead of @SirEdger. If I pick somebody he wanted to pick, he can appeal my pick and we can negotiate something...but I don't want to hold things up, so I will preemptively announce my next two picks, I hope that is okay and will help keep things moving. Maple Leaf Wrestling selects: #15: Whipper Watson Jr. and #16: Dominic DeNucci

Now that I have finally gotten around to transcribing the first half of the first episode of "Eric Fires Back" I will be curious to see how it is received...if people find it is interesting and lived up to their expectations, or if it wasn't worth the read. If you voted for it (or even if you didn't but you ended up reading it anyway) check it out and let me know what you thought? That's the one major difference between the other recaps I have done so far, and the "Fires Back" episodes. With the other stuff, they were pretty much just discussions, so I could listen to them and type out a summary of what was said. With the "Fires Back" series...the whole point is the exact quotes of what was said about the subject, so paraphrasing isn't really as much of an option if I'm trying to capture the precise nature of the Shoot Interview aspect, and the rebuttal. I can't really just type: "Jim Cornette says Eric Bischoff is a bitch." It works better as a transcription. I'm not sure if people will find that as interesting or as compelling to read. The "Fires Back" episodes are certainly compelling to listen to, and they are very popular with AFS subscribers, but I'm not sure how they'll translate into writing. I will probably finish the first episode of Eric Fires Back and transcribe the Mike Graham portion, since I've already got a start on it, and some of the stuff Graham spouts off is truly epic bullshit...but from there I'll wait and see what the general consensus is and what the interest level ends up being. No point in transcribing the stuff if people don't find it as interesting as the recaps. The other issue is, I have now recapped a good chunk of the stuff on the list I posted on Page 2 of this thread...and I have recapped all the best and most requested stuff (Eric Leaves WWE, Vader Goes Down, The Plane Ride from Hell, The Herd Interview, etc.) Soon I will run out of stuff to recap, unless people come up with requests from other podcasts or sources. It doesn't necessarily have to be from Ad Free Shows...if somebody wants a recap of one of Conrad's other podcasts or even something else, I'm pretty open to taking a crack at that as well. Of course, the new episode of "Conversations with Conrad" featuring Jim Crockett should be coming out soon...I am sure that will be interesting and will keep me busy.

Maple Leaf Wrestling selects: #13: Tony “Cannonball” Parisi and #14: Kelly Kiniski

Thank you very much for the positive feedback, good brothers.

Ad Free Shows Exclusive 83 Weeks Bonus Episode “Eric Fires Back” June 29, 2020 - Conrad Thompson welcomes us to an exclusive bonus edition of “83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff.” - Conrad says it's probably no surprise to Eric Bischoff that quite a few former WCW performers have “taken a payday” to sit in front of a camera and “shit on him” in what is known as a Shoot Interview. - Now Eric Bischoff is going to have a chance to listen to what different people have said about him, but Eric will be able to respond in an episode Conrad is calling “Eric Fires Back.” - Conrad asks Eric: When you first heard about the rise of this concept, of guys just shitting on each other on a videocassette through RF Video and it was being framed as a “Shoot Interview” what did you think? - Eric says: “Disappointed I think is probably the first thing that comes to my mind. I think most of the Shoot Interviews that I saw early on were a joke. They were really just a platform for talent that wasn't associated with a wrestling company, that really didn't have any relevance in the industry anymore, to get out and rewrite their own personal history or air personal issues. Most of them sounded like really bad wrestling promos.” - Eric says that the most frustrating thing was when he saw people talking about WCW, when it was clear they didn’t have an actual understanding of the inner workings of WCW. - Eric says: “So many of the interviews and I saw and heard were from people talking about things that they had no idea what they were talking about. Let's put this in context. 99.9% percent of the talent...I would say probably 100% percent but I'm leaving a margin for error there...99% of the talent in WCW had no idea how WCW operated from a corporate point of view. They had no idea where the problems were, or who was really causing the problems they were complaining about. They had no idea who people like Vicki Miller, or Terry Orchard or Scott Sasso were. They possibly knew the names, particularly someone like Scott Sasso because he was corporately pretty high profile internally, but so many of the people that were instrumental in actually pulling the strings for WCW or were trying to undermine WCW from a corporate point of view...you know Harry Anderson is another name that comes to mind. Let’s use Chris Jericho as an example. I don't mean to single Chris Jericho out, but he’s an example of someone who did a lot of talking about some of the dysfunction in WCW from an internal point of view as the recipient..but yet Chris had no idea who how or why these conditions existed. But people like Chris spoke as if they had really strong insight as to how WCW was working. I think Chris Jericho comes to mind simply because there was an incident where he got a merchandise check, it was like completely off the wall and nobody had any answers for him. And he was absolutely correct, and he was telling the truth...and I understand from a talent’s point of view how frustrating that would be, and how you would almost find humor in it, if it didn't affect your money. But experiencing the problems that existed internally in WCW is a far different conversation than a discussion as to how or why or who was responsible for some of those things. I think in all of the conversations that I've heard...most of the Shoot Interviews I heard, I heard so many people talking about the business side of WCW who have no fucking clue. 90% of the talent never even interfaced with anybody within corporate structure of the Turner Organization unless they happened to be at a television taping. So perceptions of what was going right, and what was going wrong, and who's responsible for how decisions made, were completely unfounded. At its core most of the conversations that I heard were people talking about things that they knew nothing about, and then weaving their own personal opinions and inventing things and trying to keep themselves relevant by doing a good wrestling promo and that's what most of those Shoot Interviews are to me. I don't watch all of them. I sampled a few of them and usually I can only get through 5 minutes before my head starts to explode...which doesn't forecast well for what this episode is going to end up being like. But I'm going to do my best not to let my head explode, or to overreact and not go off on rants and not get too pissed off. I've been preparing myself mentally for this show much like I would prepare myself for an IRS audit. I just have to be in the right frame of mind. Hopefully it won't require therapy or excessive amounts of Jameson. I don't know, we're gonna give it a try. I'm excited that we're taking a stab at this. Conrad, you and I were joking off air that so many people dislike me, we can probably do one of these every month.” - Conrad says he is very excited about this idea and has selected a few different clips to listen to. Conrad says he wants try to hit “a little bit of everybody.” - Conrad says that up first “we're going to go to the guy who probably has had the most legendary Shoot Interviews of all time...Jim Cornette.” - Conrad says this clip is going to be from an interview conducted by Sean Oliver at Kayfabe Commentaries. Conrad says he knows Eric has actually done some work with Sean Oliver before, and everybody pretty much agrees that Sean Oliver is the best in the business when it comes to Shoot Interviews. - Eric agrees and says that the reason he liked Sean Oliver and the reason Eric himself agreed to do an interview with him, is that Sean doesn't really have an agenda, and comes at the process from a pretty balanced perspective. - Eric says having said all that, Sean Oliver is a businessman and he was does these interviews to to make money and clearly the more controversial, bombastic and ridiculous these interviews were, the better for Sean and the more money he made. - Eric diverts for a moment and says the actual term “Shoot Interview” kind of “pisses him off” because you're kind of you're implying that you’re exposing the inner workings of Pro Wrestling and by calling something a “Shoot” you're characterizing it as real and honest and “out of character” and in the case of Jim Cornette it's not out of character. - Eric Bischoff says he thinks Jim Cornette isn’t playing a character, so there is no unique perspective to be had from Jim Cornette. Eric says it's not like we are only used to hearing Jim as a “character” that is 180 degrees from the real life person. Eric says Jim Cornette doesn't change whether he's out in front of a camera, or whether he's spouting off on social media. - Eric agrees that Jim Cornette is a great candidate a Shoot Interview because he is one of the more articulate and entertaining people out there. Eric says he often gets a kick out a listening to Jim's rants, not that he agrees with any of them...but just because sometimes they're so absurd, but they flow so well that they're entertaining. - Conrad says: “Well listen up...first is Jim Cornette describing the first time he met Eric Bischoff or at least had a conversation with him, and it wasn't exactly pleasant memories from his side of things.” - Conrad says in this clip, Jim Cornette is discussing his plans to come back to WCW in early 1993 and do an “invasion angle” when Smoky Mountain Wrestling “invaded” WCW. The plan had been agreed upon by Jim Cornette as the booker for Smoky Mountain, and Bill Watts who was in charge of WCW at the time. Jim Cornette Audio Clip “It on TV, but it was edited...that was actually the one thing that led to Bill Watts leaving. He called me to say I'm going home, because he was supposed to have full control. It was edited. They bleeped the audio of me talking about how bad I hated Jim Herd and I hated the company and how they screwed us around. And they neutered the angle. And they lied to Bill Watts and said the directional microphones didn't pick it up. And I said no...they've gone in post-production and taken the audio out. And I told him that and he was investigating it, and then that’s when all the other shit blew up, and he was about to go home. So my little birds told me well. Eric Bischoff is down in TV production he's the one who made that call. So Bischoff walks into the locker room and we’d never met and I said: “Eric, somebody buried you to me...would you like a rebuttal?” He said: “What do you mean?” I said: “Somebody told me you were responsible for editing the angle we did on TV.” “Well you know we we took something, that we thought that it was a kind of knocking in the company and it was kind of strong.” I said: “That’s what it was supposed to be, nimrod. We were trying to make it a shoot, we were trying to make people believe that we were really mad, because that's kind of thing that sells tickets. I already cleared everything I was gonna say with Bill Watts, the horse's head. I didn't know that I needed to clear things with the horse's ass. But you don't need to worry about that...because now that Bill Watts is gone we're out of here too, because I don't trust any of you motherfuckers. I never would have come back here except for him anyway, so this is the last time you're gonna see me...so good day to you, sir.” And I walked off, and left the little prick. Hi Eric. Fuck you. You bitch. You whiny little bitch.” Eric Bischoff Responds “I'm so glad you picked this one first. This is so much fun. Jim said a lot there. I hate to use the term “unpack” because it’s overused, but let's take that, let's break it down kind of one comment at a time, if we can. Number one...he suggested that Bill Watts left WCW of his own volition because he didn't have as much control as Bill Watts wanted to have. We know that's not true. Starting out, the very opening statement is complete fabricated nonsense. It's bullshit. So when when you start an interview out...this is supposed to be a Shoot Interview, which is the truth or the inside, or the unvarnished, unfiltered facts and truth about the situation. And in this case Jim Cornette has a lot more in common with Vince Russo than he cares to believe, in terms of believing his own bullshit. He is telling you a story that is fundamentally provable and in the end it and it is well documented as a lie. The very premise of his opening statement is a complete, fucking lie. That's number one. Number two...the incident that he described in such detail about first meeting me in a locker room? Never happened. If Jim Cornette had said something like that to me, my response would have been legendary. Not saying I would have gotten physical, but I would have pushed back verbally to the point where I would be hoping that he would throw a punch, or do something physical would which would have given me the ability to at least argue that I was defending myself. I would have enjoyed every moment of that. This isn't Eric thinks he's a tough guy, bullshit stuff I've said before. That's so far in my rear view mirror I can't even see it anymore. However in that moment, at that time in the early nineties...dealing with a guy like Jim Cornette would not have been anything more than recreational for me at that point. It never happened. It never freaking happened and that’s what I like about this. I ask you, if you saw the episode of “Table for 3” I did with Jim Cornette and Michael Hayes on the WWE Network? I don’t know if this part of the discussion made the air, and was included in the episode that was shown on the WWE Network, but Jim you know, reached into his bag of tricks...stories that he's told that he feels get a response or put himself over or whatever his agenda is. I really encourage people to go back to the WWE Network and watch it for themselves and look at the look at Jim's face when Michael Hayes says: “But wait a minute Jim...all these things you're describing, you’re saying about Eric editing out something that you and Bill Watts agreed to...Eric wasn't in charge then.” And I wasn’t. I didn't have the ability to change a television show then, so what Michael was saying was very true and 100% accurate. I'm not even sure what decision was ever made by the way, you know this big Smoky Mountain Invasion. I'm not saying none of it is true. There may have been the discussion, there may have been an attempt to book this between Bill Watts and Jim. I don't know. I was so far outside of the booking decisions and creative decisions and any decisions that were being made in WCW when Bill Watts was in charge that it could very well be they could have had a conversation. But my point is, my ability to walk into an edit bay and say “I don't think we want to do that” was so far outside of my scope of responsibilities, it's fucking laughable. I think it exposes Jim for what a carny fraud he really is. And he is. He is a carnival fucking fraud. And this is a perfect example of it. I'm gonna go back to the “Table for 3” episode. So as we're sitting there, I'm listening and you know Jim and I shook hands before and we agreed we're going to do this, and you know I was looking forward to it because I really haven't had any interactions with Jim Cornette, face to face. The truth of the story is, the only time that I was in physical proximity to Jim Cornette while he was associated in any way with WCW was very early on. I think it might have been in Chattanooga, shortly after I got there. Jim was sitting in a chair as I was walking by, and I think we both nodded to each other...and that was it. That was the only time I was in the physical presence at all of Jim Cornette. And so his description of the conversation, and the shit that he said to me is just him blowing himself. It's just bullshit. I had zero influence over what went on creatively in television after Bill Watts left. I didn't even get the job as Executive Producer until quite a while after Watts left...and in my scope of responsibilities as an Executive Producer, I can decide where we were going to shoot, I could decide the format of the show, meaning the structure of it. Not the content of it. The structure of it..how we open the show, how we close the show, if we're gonna use bumpers, new graphics, not new graphics...that type of thing. The technical aspects of television I had complete control over. Not the content of the show. Not what went in the show. Not the wrestling matches. I had no ability to hire and fire, I had no influence on creative. Nobody even asked my opinion about creative! That wasn’t my role yet. That changed over time certainly, when I was promoted from Executive Producer of TV to Vice President in 1994, obviously afterwards. But at the time, the specific time frame that Jim Cornette claims, during that period of time I had absolutely no control. He really is he really is a weak minded individual and you can always tell when guys talk like that. You know Conrad, you and I had an incident about a year ago where I said something about Jim Cornette that he took huge offense to. He started threatening me, was gonna beat my ass with a baseball bat. You called me and told me. What was it...he gave me two choices, either I had to apologize to him or he was going to attack me with a bat. One of these days, somebody's going to call that punk ass little bitch out, and just beat his ass. He's a gutless little punk that tries to intimidate and bully people. Well what you really are, is a gutless little punk that tries to intimidate people so you don't really have to confront anything. Probably works with the “little birds” that Jim and his wife like to hang out with in the hot tub. I'm sure those those people love to feed Jim information to kind of stay in the universe of the Jim Cornette cocoon, but it was all such absolute horseshit and provable fiction. It's more funny than anything.” Conrad says: “I don't know if I regret this yet...but let's keep going. What’s next is the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be. Bret Hart says Eric Bischoff killed Professional Wrestling...so let’s take a listen. Bret Hart Audio Clip “They were so bad. They’d kill hope in anybody. They’d destroy anybody. I don't have a good thing to say about Eric Bischoff, for anything he ever did. The guy with the midas touch? He was the opposite, he could kill your career. He was too stupid to know what a career was. You have a passion for your matches? You have a genius for wrestling talent? Didn't mean anything to Eric Bischoff. He was the worst loser, maggot that ever got into wrestling, he was just the worst...I have nothing he good to say about him. He’s a nice enough guy, but he was he was just the worst. I feel so bad because I went to WCW really wanting to make a difference, and I think if you look at WCW and all the names that they had, and all the wrestlers and all the other things they had...everything. All they needed was somebody that knew what to do, like someone with half a brain. Eric Bischoff...I've heard his quote which is probably why I get pretty hostile towards Eric Bischoff. He said “Bret Hart came here, he was like a broken toy, he didn't have the same fire.” I could strangle him when I hear him say that, because that is so not true. I was on fire, I wanted to take the world on. I wanted to take that whole company over and kick Vince right in the teeth and have the best matches. Give me Booker T. Give me Benoit. Give me Sting. Give me Hogan. Give me all these guys and we’ll get this thing really rocking here. And he was such an idiot, I mean, I would say all that right to him if he was sitting here. You are an idiot and you cost everybody. Look at Wrestling today. It's a monopoly, so the wrestlers themselves have no leverage of any kind...like “If you don't pay me I'm gonna go to WCW.” Like the old days, that was so much better for the wrestlers because then we had a bargaining table. But not today, and that’s all Eric Bischoff’s fault. He killed the Pro Wrestling business. He’s the worst.” - Conrad Thompson says that clip is courtesy of Sam Roberts and his great “Not Sam” podcast. - Conrad says: “I can't wait to hear what you have to say about Bret. I think a couple years ago in the U. K. you guys sort kissed and made up? Then we hear something like this floating around...that's gotta sting a little bit? Eric Bischoff Responds "It really doesn't. It doesn't, and I think anybody that's a Bret Hart fan, you're gonna believe every word. You're going to agree with his point of view. If you’re a hardcore Bret Hart fan, you're probably not going to think, or listen objectively to those comments...and that's okay. That’s just life right? It doesn't make me mad at all. I think anybody that is objective...which is hard to do in wrestling because by design, it's a devise kind of form of entertainment and people thrive on that divisiveness, which is why things like Shoot Interviews have a niche in the marketplace...but if you listen to Bret Hart's interviews over the years? Bret always has to have someone to hate. He has to have someone to blame. He has to have someone...whether it's me, whether it's Hulk Hogan, whether it’s Bill Goldberg, whether it’s Vince McMahon, whether it's Shawn Michaels, whether it's Ric Flair...it doesn't matter. It's just...who does he have heat with today? Who can he go out and have these kind of interviews, that make him feel above it all, and that it's everybody else's responsibility. Everything is everybody else's fault. Nothing that went wrong with Bret Hart's career...including in the WWF...has anything to do with him. It was Vince’s fault. It was Shawn Michaels. It was Hulk Hogan. He's always blaming somebody else. There is a big hole in the soul of Bret Hart, that he's trying to fill with hate and blame. In the end it doesn't make me angry. It doesn't make me mad. It makes me sad for Bret Hart, because I can't imagine walking around with all of that contempt and anger and resentment in in my mind. I couldn't imagine carrying that around. It must be very dark most of the time to be Bret Hart. It must be a cloudy day in his universe, almost every day if you're walking around with that. If you look at Bret Hart, here’s a guy who had absolutely zero knowledge of how WCW was structured, of how it operated, of what the business challenges were. Zero. The guy would show up looking like he hadn’t slept in three days, looking like a wet afghan. He’d mope around...and this was right from in the beginning! He didn’t come in full of fire. He didn’t say “Hey give me this guy, give me that guy.” I do believe that when Bret first made the move to come to WCW, I believe him when he says he wanted revenge and he wanted to teach Vince McMahon a lesson. But I mean...he was like the walking dead. Whenever you would see a Bret, he was expressionless. He didn't engage, he didn't assert himself. One of the criticisms you'll often hear about me...and I think to a degree it's true, is that I was too influenced by the talent in WCW. That's a valid criticism, by the way. I don't deny that. I was learning on the job. I talked to as many people as I could possibly talk to, I listened to ideas from a lot of different people, and I was influenced by ideas from a lot of the talent, as I was kind of traversing this this arc of becoming more and more involved in the creative side of the business, which I had no experience in up until around 1995. I had no confidence in myself until probably well into 1996, before I started feeling like I really deserved to be even at that table. And as a result of kind of learning on the job, yeah I did talk to a lot of different talent and take suggestions for angles and stories and matches..but guess who wasn't one of those people? Bret Hart. Bret Hart never spoke up. He never came to me with ideas. He never tried to change or improve or add things like Hulk Hogan or Scott Hall or Bill Goldberg or even Chris Jericho. A lot of top talent would come and say: “I know you want to do this...but what if we do it this way?” He was never one of those guys. He would find out what he was supposed to do that day, he would mope around for a little while or he would disappear. He would show up half an hour before show time, instead of when he was supposed to be there. His heart wasn't in it. And I'm not critical of him. I understand it. Bret went through a lot. He really saw himself is this massive Canadian hero, and he really believed it. He probably still does, in his own mind. He actually believes he let down an entire country because what happened in Montreal. I mean it affected him to the point I'm not even sure it was healthy. I'm pretty sure it wasn't. But he was a shell of his former self and although I do believe him when he says he wanted to kick Vince McMahon’s ass, that's not necessarily a productive way of doing things. That was just a feeling that he had, but he didn't act on those feelings. I went to him, and I said: “I’m going to do this thing with Larry Zbyszko and I want you to be the referee, because given what happened to you at Montreal, if there's ever anybody that's going to be a referee that's going to call it down the middle it would be Bret Hart.” We weren't ready yet to introduce him yet into a story line because he was injured. And I’m not saying that was a good idea. It wasn’t. It was a bad idea...I'll stipulate that right off the bat, your honor. However Bret never said he didn’t like the idea. He never said I have a better idea..let's do this instead. He didn't express any ownership over his own creative. He never expressed any ownership and he certainly never expressed any responsibility. As a professional, and as a performer, and as a human being Bret’s first tendency is to lash out at somebody. He's got to have someone to hate, or he doesn't know how to start his day. And that's just unfortunate. As far as the moment when Bret and I “kissed and made up” as you put it? We just kind of crossed paths, but it was intentional on my part. I waited for him to get away from the group, because we were sitting at a table and Bret was one chair away from me. We were sitting at the table, everybody was having cocktails and the mood was very good, everybody talking about the old times and having a blast, and you know there was no negativity at all, none whatsoever. Everybody was in a very festive mood. It was a group of guys getting together and having a couple beers. It was early in the evening, and Bret got up to use the restroom. And I felt like...you know there's an elephant in the room. It's awkward for both of us, so I decided I'm going to try and make an attempt. He was with his grandson. I said I'm not gonna get up and leave but I will make an attempt to at least make it more comfortable for everybody. So I went to him and I said: “Bret, I’ve heard all the things you said about me. You know, you do whatever you want to do but going forward, publicly I'm just not gonna take the low road with you. I'm just not.” I guess maybe to a degree I'm probably going back at that right now. I don't mean to. I don't know Bret Hart real well, and I don't know him at all as a human being. All I know was the experiences I've had with him, and we did have some very deep, very personal conversations especially following the death of his of his brother. So maybe I feel like I know him a little bit. I think Bret’s intentions are really good and I think he he is a good human being. He certainly was from a technical perspective...not from a character perspective but from a technical perspective...one of the best ever that's performed in the last 40 years, and I respect the hell out of him for that. But I don't respect the tendency to blame everybody else, and take no responsibility for the shortcomings in your life, or your career. Most people that listen to Bret's interviews feel the same...you know he's very bitter. But I understand he’s making this change now. I know he's got a new social media platform, where he’s gonna talk about his life, and his childhood and whatever else he's going to talk about. I hope for him it works out, like it did for me. Much like doing this show with you, Conrad. For me you know, in the beginning doing 83 Weeks and going back and revisiting all this stuff and listening to what Dave Meltzer said about me...it was hard for me the first few months. Once I put it all into context, it became a cathartic experience for me...meaning the more I talked about it, the more I went through everything and acknowledged my own shortcomings and my own mistakes, and for lack of a better word I actually had fun with it? All of the sudden it took a whole different meaning for me, and now there's very few things that I enjoy more on a personal level as much as I enjoy looking back at WCW with you on 83 Weeks. Even when it involves some dumb shit that I've done. But being able to take responsibility for your own shit is an important part of growing. I hope that Bret is there. Part of me really likes Bret. I do. I miss Bret Hart. Bret and I had a lot in common. I love the history of the Old American West. I love Native American history. I still do to this day. One of my favorite books of all time is “Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee.” It is a big book, it’s an extensive history and I probably read that book no fewer than ten times over the last few years. I'll probably read it again over the course of the next year. And Bret had a lot of the exact same interests. And he sent me that book, about the history of the west...with a nice inscription on it. Not only that...as a gift he gave me a lever action model 1894 Winchester that is in absolute mint condition. The serial numbers on it identified it as a rifle that had been made in the 1890’s and it belonged to a local sheriff in California. There was history to it, and he sent me that because he knew I loved the history of the Old West like he does. I miss that Bret Hart. Because that Bret Hart is a really enjoyable person to be around. But as soon as you get into the conversations about his career, and how he was wronged and “I was screwed by this guy and that guy screwed me?” It gets kind of uncomfortable...at least for me. But I still like Bret. I know people might not think so after hearing this but I gotta be honest about this stuff. I can't sugarcoat the response when when responding to something like what I just heard Bret Hart say about me, and what he called me. But I do like Bret. And I wish him the best. And more than anything, I hope he’s happy...I want him to find happiness, in whatever he does." ~End of First Half~ Next time: Eric Fires Back at Mike Graham

I never would have guessed that the first pick on my draft list that would get picked by somebody else first, would be Bobby Bass of all people. If I had known he was going to be a hot commodity I would have drafted him earlier. Anyhow... For my 11th Round Pick, Maple Leaf Wrestling selects: The Destroyer The #12 selection is: Mr. Fuji

Replace The Masked Superstar with The Sheik, please. Maple Leaf Wrestling Draft Pick #10: The Sheik

Maple Leaf Wrestling selects: Pick #9: Billy Robinson Pick #10: The Masked Superstar

I'm officially confused now. Who has next pick and what round is it?

I took Dino Bravo and Dewey Robertson.

Maple Leaf Wrestling selects: Dino Bravo in the seventh round Dewey Robertson in the eighth round

Maple Leaf Wrestling selects Big John Studd #5 and Blackjack Mulligan #6.

My third round pick is: Abdullah The Butcher My fourth round pick is: Rocky Johnson (Sweet Ebony Diamond)

For my First Round draft pick I select: Angelo “King Kong” Mosca. For my first Second Round draft pick I select: The Iron Sheik aka: “Hussein The Arab.”

I am going to try and duplicate the roster from Maple Leaf Wrestling in the early 80s as best I can but that is mostly because it was a really strong group.

So I have to wait for Dr. Dunk to go before I can make my pick right?

I’m still game.

So far, I haven't heard anything from The Casio Kid, but then again I have only seen the one episode of the 1986 JCP stuff. But I agree with you, 100%. That guy is an absolute deal breaker for me, then minute he shows up anywhere on one of Conrad's shows...I'm out. I don't give a crap if he is one of Conrad's best friends. I'd rather stick a whole Q-Tip into each of my ears as far as they can go than listen to one second of that guy. He's the absolute shits.

That is one of my all time favorite eras in Pro Wrestling as well. I think doing these shows with Tony was definitely a very smart decision. I am hoping they're going to do something similar with Arn.

My pleasure, thanks for checking it out. You definitely set the standard around here with your WCW thread, I'm just trying to live up to it. You've got that right. Just like some of the wrestlers on that flight couldn't figure out that drugging somebody is a criminal offence, Ric Flair doesn't seem to understand that showing your junk to somebody who didn't ask to see it is, in and of itself a form of sexual assault. Although, that story did provide me with one of my favorite quotes from Jim Ross: "I’ve seen Ric Flair’s erect penis a lot more than I should have in my lifetime."

It's quite remarkable when you think about it...in any other line of work other than Pro Wrestling, deliberately slipping somebody a highly dangerous narcotic without their permission and then shaving their head would clearly be considered assault, and you could easily be criminally charged for it. In the world of Pro Wrestling it's considered a joke. Jim Ross seemed really frustrated with the fact that a lot of the guys on that flight couldn't figure out why drugging somebody was a big deal.

I have mixed feelings about the whole Bischoff/Meltzer dynamic. I don't think it's any big secret around here that I am pretty much PWO's resident Eric Bischoff apologist. Hell, I've spoken with the man on the phone - twice. As far as I'm concerned, that makes us close personal friends, and I won't stand for somebody slandering my close personal friend. In all seriousness, as I have already ranted about extensively here, I have some major issues with Dave Meltzer. It drives me nuts that some fans (and I am not saying anybody here at PWO is like this) just assume if Dave Meltzer reports something, it's automatically true. If you look at Dave Meltzer's history as a reporter, there are several times he has reported things which are provably untrue. History has borne out the fact that a lot of the things Bischoff reported regarding the inner workings of WCW were just plain wrong. I also get annoyed when Meltzer mixes his opinion in with his reporting of the facts. This "Plane Ride From Hell" story is a perfect example. Meltzer reports that the reason the WWE talent acted up on the plane was because Vince McMahon wasn't there. Vince McMahon was there. Seriously, how hard would it have been for Meltzer to confirm that before reporting it? Having said that...Eric Bischoff clearly tried to control his relationship with Meltzer. Bischoff saw (rightfully so) that Meltzer was not above getting "worked" by some of his favorite sources, so Bischoff tried to use Meltzer to spread his own narrative about WCW and it didn't work. It almost seems like Bischoff resents Meltzer for not believing him when he tried to bullshit the guy or manipulate him and plant stories in the Observer. I think Bischoff resents Meltzer and I think it's pretty clear Meltzer just doesn't like Bischoff. Neither guy are ever going to give the other a fair shake. I have no use for the way Bruce Prichard talks about Meltzer, or even Tony Schiavone, to be honest. They both seem to blindly hate Meltzer just because he's Meltzer. Arn Anderson really doesn't seem to care about Meltzer one way or the other, and JR has openly admitted that he subscribes to the Observer and has even been a source for Meltzer before on certain stories. However, you can tell Jim Ross gets a little salty when Meltzer passes off his opinion or a theory as a fact in a news story.

Ad Free Shows Exclusive Grilling JR “The Plane Ride From Hell” March 29, 2019 - Conrad Thompson welcomes us to another Ad Free Shows exclusive podcast. Conrad says he is happy to be bringing us a special exclusive episode of “Grilling JR” with Jim Ross. - Conrad says that this episode is noteworthy, because the subject is the most requested topic in the history of any of Conrad’s podcasts. Conrad says that for years, fans have been begging him to devote an episode to this topic, but up until now he has been unable to do so. - The topic for this podcast is “The Plane Ride From Hell.” This refers to the WWE charter flight from England to the United States, which took place on May 5, 2002. The behavior by some of the WWE talent during this flight was so bad that it ended up resulting in some wrestlers being released, others fined, and it also resulted in damage being done to the actual plane and lawsuits being filed by the Flight Attendants who were unlucky enough to be working on this flight. - Conrad says that listeners of “Something to Wrestle with Bruce Prichard” have been asking Conrad and Bruce to cover this topic for years, but that has been impossible because Bruce Prichard was not on the flight and had no actual firsthand knowledge of what took place. - Conrad says Jim Ross is the perfect person to talk about this infamous event, because not only was he on the flight and witnessed much of the chaos that took place...but as the Vice President of Talent Relations for WWE, Jim Ross was responsible for dealing with the subsequent fallout from the flight. And now since JR no longer works for WWE, he is free to tell the whole story about what actually happened on this flight. - Jim Ross says that as soon as Conrad told him that they would be discussing this incident, JR began to dread it. “This is not a story I enjoy telling. This was a low point for a lot of things. You just didn’t think the bottom would fall out like this, and that a bunch of guys would start acting like children. How could I have predicted this? But it was real, and it happened in front of my eyes.” - Conrad points out that this flight happened the day after a UK Exclusive Pay Per View event called “Insurrextion” which took place on May 4, 2002 at Wembley Arena in London, England. - Jim Ross says that the reason the WWF chartered a flight from England back to the United States, is because the Insurrextion Pay Per View took place on a Saturday in London, and that gave the entire WWF crew and talent only one day to get back to the United States in order to broadcast RAW on Monday May 6, 2002. - JR points out that the Pay Per View was the final show of what had been a gruelling European tour for the WWF talent and crew. - As an interesting sidenote, the Insurrextion Pay Per View was actually the final event to be promoted under the name World Wrestling Federation. The WWF had just lost the lawsuit filed by the World Wildlife Fund, and after this Pay Per View they changed their name to “World Wrestling Entertainment” as of the May 6, 2002 episode of RAW. - Conrad asks what the flight looked like. - Jim Ross says the plane was not a typical plane. JR says that it was a 747 which had been customized and modified for use by a Professional Sports Teams. JR says the seats had been widened and moved so there was a great deal of leg room and space, a lot of seats had been removed in order to create more space. - JR said the flight had executive catering and (unfortunately as it turns out) an open bar. JR jokes that the food was excellent but when it comes to feeding a plane full of Pro Wrestlers, that doesn’t really matter...when it comes to feeding wrestlers the quantity of the food is what matters, not the quality. - JR says the Charter flight had been arranged in order to make things easier for the wrestlers after a tough European tour, so they could have a meal, a drink to relax and then get some sleep to unwind after the Pay Per View and before they had to do RAW the next day. - JR says it would have been really hard on the talent if they had to perform on a Pay Per View after a long tour and then fly commercial on an international flight and rush to Television the next day. JR says the whole idea of hiring such a luxurious plane with so many perks was to make things easier for the talent, but it ended up backfiring in a big way. - Conrad asks who was on the flight? - Jim Ross says that all of the talent, some of the crew and of course Vince and Linda McMahon were on the flight. JR says he’s not sure if all of the ring crew and production staff were on the charter flight, he says he thinks some of them may have had to fly commercial. - Conrad asks if the talent all flew to Europe at the start of the tour on the same Charter Jet, or if they flew commercial over there and just took the Charter back. - JR says some of the talent flew commercial to get to Europe, but a lot of them took the Charter both ways. - Conrad wonders why the wrestlers behaved themselves on the way to Europe, but not on the way home. - Jim Ross says there are a few reasons for that. JR says that it’s possible many of the talent didn’t realize until the flight on the way over what the plane would be like. JR says once everybody figured out on the way over that there was unlimited booze, they decided to make sure and take advantage of that on the way back. - JR says the flight over to the UK was very quiet and most of the talent were sleeping. JR says he thinks their attitude on the way over was that “they were on their way to work” whereas on the way home they were celebrating the end of the tour and successful Pay Per View...which didn’t really make much sense when you think about it, because they still had to go back to work the next day. - The other factor which probably contributed greatly to what happened on the flight home, was an incident that took place on the flight over. JR says that for whatever reason...on the flight to the UK, Vince McMahon thought it would be a good idea to engage in physical horseplay with the wrestlers on the plane. Specifically, Vince had a “takedown competition” where he challenged the wrestlers to take him to the floor. - Conrad says he has heard stories about that incident, and asks if this was the same incident that The Undertaker talked about during “The Last Ride” documentary, where he woke up and saw Kurt Angle and Vince McMahon rolling around on the floor in front of them, and he broke it up because he thought it was a legit fight? - Jim Ross says that is the same incident. - On the flight home, a fight broke out between Brock Lesnar and Curt Hennig, where both men were trying to take each other down. JR says that Vince was furious about this, and JR claims he told Vince that he really couldn’t say too much because Vince himself had engaged in horseplay on the flight over, which obviously sent the message to the talent that it was okay for them to act like that, since Vince had done it. JR claims Vince reluctantly agreed with him that wrestling with the talent, in the aisles of the plane while in flight was not a good idea, in hindsight. - JR says that when he and Vince met the next day, he told Vince: “You know...all that shit with you and Kurt, you didn’t help things.” - Jim Ross says that unfortunately, the stories about what happened on this flight have become so infamous that it sounds like everybody on the plane was out of control. JR says that is not the case. “Not everybody on this flight was acting like an asshole.” Jim Ross says that if you listen to the stories, it was always the small handful of people that acted like idiots. - JR says many of the talents who acted up on this flight tried to use the excuse that “we work hard so we deserved to blow off steam” but he does not buy that. He said everybody on the flight worked hard on that tour, but not all of them acted irresponsibly. - Jim Ross goes on a typical cranky old man JR rant at this point, talking about how when he came up in the business, they would have four guys packed in a car...they didn’t get custom chartered flights and catered meals and free booze, dammit. - JR says the entire plane was classified as “First Class” but he and Vince and Linda ended up sitting nearer to the front of the plane, with the talent sitting in the back. JR says he now realizes that a lot of them did this so they could do drugs where they couldn’t be seen by management. - JR says the main reason he selected his seat was because it was close to the bathroom. JR jokes that is a the real scoop for the listeners: “JR had to sit near the bathroom because he’s an old man.” - At this point, (for whatever reason) Conrad decides to run down the results of the Insurrextion PPV. I am not going to recap the results, because there was absolutely nothing noteworthy about the show and it isn’t relevant to the flight home. - The only point of interest of this portion of the podcast was when Jim Ross praised William Regal for being the consummate professional. JR pointed out that in keeping with WWF tradition, William Regal was booked to lose a European Championship match to Spike Dudley, in under five minutes. Since this was William Regal’s home country, of course he was extremely popular with the crowd and had friends and family at the show, but JR claims Regal didn’t bat an eye when he was told he was losing to Spike Dudley in under five minutes. JR really goes to great lengths to praise William Regal as a Pro Wrestler and as a human being, especially for being able to conquer his addictions. - Conrad wraps up his quick recap of the Pay Per View results, and gets back to the topic of the flight. - Conrad asks Jim Ross, who was he sitting with? - Jim Ross says: “Nobody.” JR says the plane was so big and there was plenty of room so he had a whole area to himself. - JR says he had been looking forward to relaxing on the trip home, but he spent more time at the back of the plane than he did sitting in his seat, trying to deal with the chaos that broke out. - Jim Ross says he was very disappointed by the behavior of the some of the agents/producers on this flight. JR says that instead of helping to control or discourage some of the disruptive behavior that was taking place, some of the agents were actually participating in it or actively encouraging it. - JR said that a lot of the agents on the flight were new to the job and were “still stuck in that Pro Wrestler mentality...they didn’t want to be a heel to their peers.” Jim Ross says he was very upset with the agents on the flight, because he feels that if some of them had done their jobs, a lot of the chaos on the flight could have been avoided. - JR admits he met with several of the agents at RAW the next day and told them: “You don’t wear the same jersey anymore, guys. You’re not a wrestler anymore...you work for the office. That’s what you get paid for.” - Jim Ross says he kept getting called to the back of the plane and kept getting asked to deal with different situations, and that he asked some of the agents that were there for help calming things down, but unfortunately some of them were drunk as well, so he had no help. - JR said it was very frustrating to deal with, and the old saying applies: “The only person who likes dealing with a drunk is another drunk.” - Conrad asks if part of the problem on the flight is that the talent were divided into different “cliques.” Conrad says he has heard that The Undertaker had his own group that he hung out with a drank with, as did Shawn Michaels, etc. - JR said that some guys sat in groups with their friends, but other guys were able to sit off by themselves due to the size of the plane. JR said some of the talent on the flight weren’t interested in being involved in the kind of behavior that was happening and they didn’t really fit in with any particular group. - Jim Ross says that the problem was after everybody started misbehaving, the guys who were drunk or on drugs started trying to outdo each other and see who could act more outrageous. - Jim Ross says that this incident happened at a changing time for the WWF/WWE. JR says the company had just gone public a couple of years prior to this incident, and the corporate environment was changing within the organization. The kind of rowdy behavior that was traditional in the Pro Wrestling business was becoming unacceptable because WWE was now a publicly traded company. JR says many of the older talents had a hard time understanding that bad behavior in public could hurt the company. JR says that he was amazed that some of the talent on this flight actually thought there was going to be no consequences for their behavior. - Conrad asks Jim Ross if he knows what started all the trouble on the flight, or what was the first major incident that took place, if he can remember? - Jim Ross says that unfortunately, much of the trouble on that flight was instigated by Scott Hall...but not so much from his behavior on the flight itself, more by the way Hall had behaved the entire tour. - Conrad asks if it was true that the first person fired due to their behavior on the flight was Scott Hall. - JR confirms that Scott Hall was fired the day after this flight, and that his behavior on the European tour was the reason for his dismissal. - Conrad reads a report from Dave Meltzer regarding the release of Scott Hall. Meltzer is very critical of the WWF for hiring Scott Hall to begin with, and says: “This finalizes the decision to hire Scott Hall as the latest in a scarily predictable series of bad decisions made by WWF management over the past 17 months.” - Jim Ross responds: “Wow, that was stiff. I was part of that management team. So we screwed up for 17 straight months? Good to know that.” - Dave Meltzer continues to opine about how predictable Scott Hall’s failure in the WWF was, since his track record in WCW was obvious, and on top of that Hall had experienced problems during his brief tenures in both New Japan Pro Wrestling and ECW after WCW went out of business. - Meltzer claims the WWF has tried to pin Scott Hall’s problems on the chaotic atmosphere in WCW and that WWF ignored the fact that Hall failed in New Japan as well, even though New Japan have a “well structured system and Hall flopped there as well.” - Meltzer reports that Scott Hall’s behavior was out of control for the entirety of his return to the WWF in 2002. Meltzer says that both Scott Hall and the WWF had been claiming that Hall was taking a medication called Antabuse which is supposed to discourage alcoholics from drinking, as it makes the user violently ill when combined with alcohol. Despite these claims, Meltzer reports that Scott Hall was seen making a drunken spectacle of himself the night before his WWF return, and in Toronto the night before Wrestlemania...not to mention during this entire European tour. - Meltzer claims that Steve Austin refused to work an extended program with Scott Hall because of Hall’s unpredictable backstage behavior and unreliability. - Conrad asks Jim Ross if Dave Meltzer is correct, that Scott Hall’s behavior on the Spring 2002 European was the proverbial “straw that broke the camel’s back” when it came to Scott Hall’s run in the WWF. Conrad says that Dave Meltzer had reported that Scott Hall had been out of control for the entire European tour and asks Jim Ross if that was true. - Jim Ross says that unfortunately, it was. JR says that Scott Hall’s behavior during the European tour actually led to what happened on the flight home. JR says that Scott Hall was drinking and taking drugs for the entire tour, and that the rest of the talent saw Scott Hall behaving that way and “getting away with it” so they thought they could do it too. - Conrad says that sounds like something a child would say. - Jim Ross agrees, but he says the mentality of the some of the talent on the flight was like a bunch of guys in Junior High trying to impress each other, thinking they were going to get away with it because somebody else did...or so they thought. - Jim Ross and Conrad Thompson divert for a moment and discuss Scott Hall’s entire run in the WWF in 2002. - Jim Ross has said that unlike practically every other talent contract, Vince McMahon made the decision himself to hire back Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash and Scott Hall and it was Vince McMahon who negotiated their contracts himself. Normally these decisions and negotiations were the job of Jim Ross and were only subject to Vince’s final approval. - JR says there were several factors that went into Vince McMahon’s decision to bring back Scott Hall. Firstly, JR says that Scott Hall was very well liked by Vince McMahon and that Vince sincerely wanted to help Scott. JR says everybody was well aware of the fact that Scott Hall had been struggling with substance abuse problems, but many thought that the WWF would be able to help Scott Hall deal with these problems. JR pointed out that the WWF spent many thousands of dollars sending Scott Hall to several different treatment and rehab programs, but despite their best efforts, it never worked. - JR says many in WWF management saw a lot of value in Scott Hall. Hall’s time in WCW made him a very valuable commodity and a hot property which Vince McMahon had hoped could be used to the WWF’s advantage. JR says Scott Hall had good “name identity and star power.” - Jim Ross says that ultimately, the worst thing they could have done was hire Scott Hall back because it put him in the environment where all his biggest temptations were at hand, but obviously the WWF had hoped that wouldn’t end up being the case. - JR says that bringing Scott Hall back to the WWF was well intended. JR says it is easy for people to say it was a stupid decision in hindsight. JR says: “We really wanted to help him. We tried to help him, but we did the worst thing we could have done by bringing him back.” - JR says that the moment the plane got back to the United States, Vince McMahon wanted Scott Hall fired, because Scott Hall was largely responsible for the problems that occurred during the flight, either by participating in the problems, encouraging them or inspiring them. - JR says there were other talents that Vince wanted fired, and JR says some he did, and some he was able to “save” from Vince. - JR says that a lot of people respect Scott Hall’s mind for the Pro Wrestling business and it was hoped that he would transition from this contract as a talent, into a Producer’s role or a spot on the Creative Team. Jim Ross says he has personally witnessed Scott Hall giving many young talents a lot of very good advice, and everybody had hoped he would become a coach or mentor for much of the younger talent that the WWF was planning on advancing into the spotlight. Jim Ross says Scott Hall has a great “mind for the business but unfortunately he is his own worst enemy.” JR says they had hoped Scott Hall would help get some other guys over, but that did not end up being the case. - Jim Ross says that when Scott Hall is sober, he can be one of the most funny, engaging and gregarious people that JR has ever met and has one of the best minds for Professional Wrestling that JR has ever been around. Unfortunately, Scott Hall is one of those people who when they have been drinking, become almost the exact opposite and become extremely obnoxious, confrontational and unpleasant to be around. - Jim Ross says that when he fired Scott Hall, Hall actually agreed with JR that the whole situation wasn’t doing him any good. JR says that Scott Hall had an image he had perpetuated about his life outside the ring and as a result he was constantly being encouraged by his peers to misbehave. - Conrad says Dave Meltzer reported at the time that Scott Hall had already been drunk when he got on the plane, but then he started acting out during the flight. Meltzer reported that at some point during the flight, Hall passed out and was in such bad shape when the flight landed that he had to be assisted in getting off the plane. Conrad asks if this was true? - Jim Ross confirms that story, and says that by the end of the flight Scott Hall was a “dead man rolling.” JR says that Sean Waltman and Justin Credible had to put Scott Hall in a wheelchair and wheel him off the flight, because Hall was unable to walk...he was literally unconscious. JR says Scott Hall’s condition was “embarrassingly bad.” - JR says that by the time Scott Hall got fired, his overall condition and addiction was so out of control that JR assumed he was going to die soon, and felt bad that no matter what everybody tried, nobody could help him. JR says he is so glad that today Scott Hall has finally turned his life around. - Jim Ross reiterates that Scott Hall was already drunk or under the influence of drugs when he got on the flight. Hall reportedly then started running up and down the aisles of the plane, spraying people with shaving cream and encouraging Curt Hennig who apparently went along with it. - It is alleged that at some point after that, Scott Hall made some very sexually aggressive comments towards the Flight Attendants, which resulted in them suing WWE. At some point after this, Hall passed out and slept the remainder of the flight. - Jim Ross says another major issue that started things off badly on the flight was the horseplay in the aisle between Curt Hennig and Brock Lesnar. JR says it started out as a joke, but neither guy wanted to back down and the two men started seriously struggling all over the place, and ended up repeatedly smashing into the emergency door while the plane was in flight. - JR says that he heard Sean Waltman dismiss this incident in several interviews, where Waltman has said it was technically impossible for that door to open while the plane was in flight, so people made “too big a deal out of it.” - Jim Ross says he is not sure who among the talent had the “aeronautical expertise” to make that determination. JR asks how anybody would feel if they looked back and saw “two big sons of bitches thrashing around and banging up against the door while the plane was in flight. I’ll tell you...it’s a little unsettling, quite frankly.” - JR asks: “Why wouldn’t you be worried when you see a guy the size of Brock Lesnar slamming up against the door of the plane?” JR says that the other issue was that Brock Lesnar could have easily been injured during the scuffle with Curt Hennig, which would have been a waste of his talent. JR says the WWF had big plans for Brock Lesnar and that was stupid to risk injury in that type of situation. - JR says the fight between Curt Hennig and Brock Lesnar was the first time he was called to the back of the plane to try and intervene. JR says at that point he was not interested in scolding anybody, he just wanted them to stop and settle down. - Jim Ross says the next major problem involved Michael Hayes. Hayes got extremely drunk on this flight, but JR says that Hayes started acting so strangely that it become obvious that somebody had drugged him, against his will. - JR explains that there was a popular “rib” that used to go on in Pro Wrestling called “The H-Bomb.” Specifically, Pro Wrestlers would drop tablets of the drug Halcion into an alcoholic beverage without telling somebody, and then have them drink it. The resulting cocktail of Halcion and Alcohol apparently results in extreme reactions like severe intensified intoxication, hallucinations, blackouts and eventual unconsciousness. JR says this practice was common with many Pro Wrestlers. - JR says that at the time of this flight, the drug Gamma-Hydroxybutyric Acid or “GHB” had also become very popular with many Pro Wrestlers because of it’s intoxicating effects and how easy it was to get. JR says it was very common for talents to secretly slip this drug into each other’s drinks as a “joke.” - Jim Ross gets angry when discussing this practice of Pro Wrestlers “H-Bombing” each other. Ross says that after somebody has been secretly dosed with Halcion it is not uncommon for them to froth at the mouth or end up drooling all over themselves, which the wrestlers think if hilarious...but JR says he wonders how funny they would think it was if somebody died as a result. JR says he is honestly surprised nobody ever ended up dying as a result of this dangerous prank. - Jim Ross said that based on the behavior of Michael Hayes on the flight, it seemed obvious that he had been drugged. JR says that at one point, Michael Hayes walked up to Linda McMahon, pulled out his penis and appeared to be preparing to urinate on her. JR says that Hayes kept repeating the phrase “wait a minute” over and over, and luckily some people stopped him and took him to the bathroom. - Jim Ross reiterates that Michael Hayes had a long, storied reputation for drinking too much and acting out. JR says Hayes “always wants to be a Freebird.” Despite this, JR says that Michael Hayes was not fired for his behavior on this flight because it seemed obvious that he had been drugged against his will but says Hayes is still lucky he was not fired...and there have been several times over the years in the WWF that Michael Hayes almost lost his job and this was one of them. - Conrad says the rumor has always been that Scott Hall and Sean Waltman are the ones who drugged Michael Hayes. - Conrad says that it has been reported that JBL and Michael Hayes actually became involved in a fight during the flight. - JR confirms that JBL was very drunk on the flight as well, and that he picked a fight with Michael Hayes. JR confirms that the story going around was that JBL punched Michael Hayes in the face and that is actually what knocked Hayes out in the end, but there was nobody who witnessed it and Hayes had no recollection. - Conrad asks if it’s true that somebody cut Michael Hayes hair while he was passed out. - Jim Ross confirms this happened. JR claims that it was Sean Waltman who cut off Michael Hayes hair and put it in a baggie. - JR confirms that Michael Hayes was extremely unpopular with a lot of the talent in the WWF at the time, and that it is obvious that somebody...most likely Sean Waltman and JBL...took advantage of the chaos on the flight in order to get revenge on Michael Hayes. - Conrad asks how Michael Hayes reacted to what happened to him. Conrad reads a portion of an interview given by Justin Credible, where he described Hayes waking up and discovering his hair had been cut, and then freaking out. - JR confirms this and says that the next day at RAW Hayes was still furious, but he had no proof of who drugged him and cut his hair off. - JR says that somebody taped the hair of Michael Hayes to the Locker Room door the next day at RAW. Jim Ross says that he ended up being the one who took the bag off the door and threw it in the garbage. JR jokes that he considered taking the hair to Hayes and asking him if he wanted it back, but he decided that probably wouldn’t be a good idea. - Conrad says that there obviously was not any long term hard feelings over the incident where he almost peed on Linda McMahon, because Hayes joked about it during his Hall of Fame induction speech. - Conrad says that Sean Waltman has since owned up to being the one who cut off the hair of Michael Hayes, but nobody has ever confirmed or admitted that they drugged him. - Jim Ross says there was so many things that happened on that flight were “fucking dangerous.” - JR says he loves Sean Waltman, but Waltman’s attitude about the flight and his behavior on the flight has always bothered him. JR says that Sean Waltman has always claimed that the WWF overreacted to what happened on the flight...but JR says he “respectfully disagrees.” - Conrad reads out a report that Dave Meltzer wrote about the flight, where Meltzer claims that the reason the wrestlers acted like that on the flight was because Vince McMahon wasn’t there, so they thought they’d get away with it. - Jim Ross points out that Vince McMahon was on the flight, as was Linda McMahon. - Conrad asks if it’s true that there was an incident involving Dustin Rhodes and his ex-wife on the flight, and if so, Conrad asks if JR remembers it. - Jim Ross says that Dustin Rhodes was one of the other talents on the plane who became very drunk. JR says Dustin Rhodes grabbed the Public Address microphone for the plane and started serenading his ex-wife over the intercom. JR says he had to go and order Rhodes to sit down. JR confirms that the entire incident made Terri Runnels very uncomfortable. - JR says that was not the only incident involving Dustin Rhodes on the flight. Jim Ross says that Dustin Rhodes was chewing tobacco on the plane, and instead of spitting into a cup, Rhodes had been repeatedly spitting tobacco juice into the pouch on the back of the seat in front of him, for some reason. - Conrad is disgusted by this revelation and asks what happened as a result. - Jim Ross says that after he went and spoke to Dustin Rhodes, Dustin was apologetic and sat down and behaved himself. JR says that the next day, Dustin was told that the expense of replacing the airplane seat was being taken out of his pay, and he was being fined an additional $5000.00. JR says that Dustin was also informed that he would be allowed to stay with WWE for the remaining six months of his contract with WWE on probation, but that his contract would not be renewed and he would not be offered a new contract. - JR says that if Dustin had not “sat down and shut up” he would have been fired the next day, but because Dustin was apologetic and stopped misbehaving, he managed to save his job...for a while. - Jim Ross goes out of his way to say that the Dustin Rhodes he knows now, is nothing like the person he was in 2002. JR confirms that Rhodes is now clean and sober, and is fulfilling the position now in AEW that Ross had always hoped he would in WWE back in 2002. JR says that he loves Dustin Rhodes and is very proud of him. JR says Dustin Rhodes is a “changed man” today. - Conrad asks if Vince McMahon was aware of what was going on during the flight or if he got involved. - Jim Ross says that Vince knew there were problems but he did not go into the rear of the plane where the talent were, instead he ordered JR to deal with it. - JR says that by this time, he was doing his best to avoid getting the WWF involved in lawsuits as a result of the flight. “And that was a failed attempt. We got involved in lawsuits as a result of this goddamn abortion.” - Jim Ross says that after the chaos broke out on the plane, the Flight Attendants let the wrestlers do whatever they wanted...and he does not blame them for that. - Jim Ross says that he does not blame the Flight Attendants for suing and that they deserved to be compensated for what they were subjected to. - JR says that he knew trouble was coming with Flight Attendants. - Conrad asks why JR thought there would be trouble with the Flight Attendants. - Jim Ross says that as soon as he saw some of the Flight Attendants acting in a flirtatious or inappropriate way with the talent, he was afraid some of the wrestlers would take that the wrong way and take it too far, and that is exactly what happened. - Jim Ross says: “The Flight Attendants partied pretty hard with the boys...and you know what that means. No good can come of that. Nobody was looking for a nice, romantic interlude and none of those guys was looking to meet the girl of their dreams. Those girls didn’t do a lot to help themselves, but that absolutely doesn’t give anybody the right to be sexually abusive.” - Conrad says that Dave Meltzer reported that both Arn Anderson and Gerald Brisco were disciplined after the flight because they were supposed to help manage the situation, but instead both of them were drinking and partying with the boys and did nothing to make the situation any better. Conrad asks if this was true. - Jim Ross (reluctantly) admits that is true. JR says both Anderson and Brisco got quite drunk during the flight, and instead of helping calm the situation down, they just added to the problem. JR admits that Brisco and Anderson are two of the agents he was referring to earlier when he talked about being disappointed with some of the agents on the flight. JR says Arn “fell into the trap of being one of the boys.” - Conrad says that Dave Meltzer reported that Ric Flair started to get out of control during the flight, and Arn Anderson (who could have calmed Ric down) did nothing to stop the problem, so Jim Ross ended up having to get involved. Conrad asks if this is true. - Jim Ross admits that Ric Flair did indeed get up to his usual antics during the flight, and Arn Anderson was doing nothing to discourage it. JR says that Fit Finlay was the only one trying to maintain order, and that Finlay was the one who came to JR to ask for his help in trying to control Ric Flair. - Conrad says that Meltzer also reported that one of the other major problems on the flight was Curt Hennig. Conrad says that Meltzer reported that Curt Hennig’s behavior was out of control on the flight...and that for some reason Hennig kept trying to provoke Brock Lesnar. - Jim Ross admits that is true. JR says that one of the reasons the WWF brought back Curt Hennig was specifically to work with Brock Lesnar. JR says they were both collegiate wrestlers from Minnesota and it was thought that Hennig would make a great mentor figure for Brock Lesnar, but the opposite ended up happening. - Jim Ross says that around the time of this incident in 2002, he had conversations with Vince McMahon about long term planning. Specifically, JR says that both he and Vince realized that they could not rely on talent from “The Attitude Era” forever. It was the intention of the WWF to start slowly bringing along some younger talent and introducing them into the mix. JR uses Brock Lesnar as an example of just such a younger talent. - JR says a very important part of this plan was the hiring of experienced veterans who had shown an aptitude for teaching, coaching and helping younger talent. The decision was made to hire several veteran talents who were nearing the end of their careers, and use them to work in the ring with younger, up and coming stars and give them the benefit of their experience and advice. The hope was then that these veterans would help by “putting over” the younger talent, and then transition into coaching, producing and creative roles behind the scenes. - Jim Ross says that three of the talents that were hired with this specific purpose in mind were Scott Hall, Curt Hennig and Dustin Rhodes. All three of these men were hired around the start of the year, and in the case of Hennig and Rhodes they were re-introduced during the Royal Rumble. JR said it was hoped that all three men would go on to become leaders in the Locker Room, but the behavior of all three men on this flight proved that would not be the case...and in fact the opposite was true. - Jim Ross says that unfortunately, what WWF management had failed to take into consideration was the attitude of some of these veterans. Specifically, JR says that some veteran talents can be prone to jealousy of younger talent and are reluctant to give up “their spot.” In some cases these veterans may actually do the opposite of what they were hired for, and attempt to sabotage the younger talent. - JR says that even though some veterans have the ability to help younger talent, many are stubborn and immature and won’t do it. Jim Ross says these problems can be amplified or exacerbated if the veteran in question has a substance abuse problem, as it can prevent them from thinking clearly. Scott Hall, Curt Hennig and Dustin Rhodes are all examples of this problem. - Jim Ross says that conversely, there have been a couple of people backstage who did understand their roles as veterans, and were happy to transition into a position of mentor and teacher. JR named Fit Finlay and William Regal as two examples of guys who towards the end of their careers, understood when it was time to “give back” and did not act selfishly or irresponsibly. - JR basically says that Curt Hennig was jealous of Brock Lesnar and instead of trying to help him, Hennig kept trying to provoke him into misbehaving. Due to Curt Hennig’s behavior on this flight and his inability to do the job he was hired for (act as a mentor for younger talent and transition into a producer’s job) he was fired the day after the flight. - JR says that Paul Heyman was on the flight and was sitting with Brock Lesnar, and that Heyman was encouraging Lesnar to ignore Curt Hennig as Hennig kept repeatedly trying to provoke Lesnar. JR says the problem was, the other wrestlers that were there kept telling Lesnar that he had to stand up to Hennig otherwise he would have no respect in the Locker Room. - JR says the entire situation with Curt Hennig and Brock Lesnar was an example of an outdated mentality by veterans in the Locker Room and it was sad that athletes of that calibre were conducting themselves like “jabronis and ham and eggers.” JR says he borrowed those phrases from The Rock and Bobby Heenan. - Jim Ross gets a bit upset at this point, and says one of the things that upset him the most about the flight was the attitude of some of the talent the next day at RAW. JR says many of the people who were on the flight weren’t embarrassed by their behavior and saw nothing wrong with what they had done. JR says after everything was said and done, there were still talent who thought the whole incident was funny, and that really disappoints him. - Conrad says that it’s time to talk about “The Nature Boy.” Conrad says that it is not uncommon for Ric Flair to get drunk and naked when he is on a non-commercial flight, and this was no exception. Conrad says that Ric is accustomed to making a scene, and that Dave Meltzer reported he did act out during this flight, and it was Jim Ross who had to get him to behave. - Jim Ross replies: “Yep.” - Conrad says two of the Flight Attendants ended up suing Ric Flair and WWE for Flair’s behavior on this flight. Flair is accused of being “sexually aggressive” by being naked except for a “jewelled cape” and flashing the Flight Attendants and “spinning his penis around.” Flair was further accused of attempting to grab the Flight Attendants and place their hands on his penis. - Conrad says that the lawsuit further alleges that Scott Hall propositioned the Flight Attendants, as did Dustin Rhodes. The Flight Attendants also alleged that several of the wrestlers on the flights were using drugs and gave the Flight Attendants empty syringes to dispose of. - Conrad says that Ric Flair has admitted being naked except for his robe and admits exposing his penis, but Flair denies ever sexually assaulting anybody during the flight. - Jim Ross says WWE did not have a leg to stand on in defending the lawsuit, and they had to settle it out of court because there was too much evidence against them. JR says he is glad that WWE did not try and defend the lawsuit because they were guilty and implies he is happy the Flight Attendants received a large settlement. - Jim Ross says when it came to the lawsuit: “WWE did not have a leg to stand on.” - JR says that he was sitting in his seat, after the fight between Hennig and Lesnar, after he had dealt with Dustin Rhodes, after the incident with Michael Hayes, when Fit Finlay came up to JR’s seat, put his hand on JR’s shoulder and said: “It’s Ric.” - JR said his reaction was to sigh and say: “Oh fuck.” - Conrad says JR must have known what that meant. - Jim Ross replies: “Of course. I’ve seen Ric Flair’s erect penis a lot more than I should have in my lifetime.” - JR says when he arrived in the back of the plane, Flair was standing in the aisle with a huge grin on his face, wearing alligator shoes, dress socks, his robe...and nothing else. - JR says he definitely saw Flair nude except for his robe, but he did not witness Flair interacting with any of the Flight Attendants. JR says the damage had been done before he had confronted Flair. - JR notes that Flair was trained by Verne Gagne and that Gagne had quite a reputation for showing his penis to people who hadn’t asked to see it. JR says Bobby Heenan had told him stories about Verne, and obviously Verne must have had an influence on Flair. - JR says that as soon as he saw what Flair was doing, he went to Flair and told him to get dressed and settle down. JR claims that Flair complied and got dressed right away. JR says: “Ric realized the error of his ways as soon as I confronted him.” - Jim Ross says he didn’t act the way Bill Watts or Ole Anderson would have...he didn’t yell or provoke a confrontation. JR says he tried to be reasonable and told Ric to think about what he was doing, and what the ramifications of his behavior were. - Conrad reads a summary of the all the incidents just described, as written by Dave Meltzer. - Conrad then reads a portion of an interview with Justin Credible, discussing this flight. Justin Credible says that this was the last time Vince McMahon ever provided alcohol to his talent. Conrad asks if this was true. - Jim Ross confirms this. JR says that because of this incident, WWE has never served alcohol to their employees on a Private Charter flight again, and that is now company policy. JR says this is because “these guys can’t control their goddamn urges.” - JR goes off on a bit of a rant again, and says that the Charter flight and open bar was provided to make life easier for the talent, but they became entitled and ruined it. - Conrad reads an interview with Sean Waltman that says: “This whole thing was brewing and it happened because everybody was doing GHB. Back then you could buy GHB legally in a health food store, but it really fucks you up.” - Conrad says Jim Ross has famously said that: “When that flight took off, Scott Hall and Curt Hennig had jobs. When it landed, they didn’t.” - Jim Ross says that in the end, Hall and Hennig were fired, Dustin’s was fined and his contract was not renewed, and JR says that he issued serious fines to several of the other talents and agents who were on the flight. JR says that he ended up personally handling all the discipline for everybody who misbehaved on the flight. - Jim Ross says: “This never should have happened and it will never happen again. And if Tony Khan ever comes to me and says he wants to run a tour of the UK and book a Charter, and asks me if I have any advice...I will say yeah. No booze.” - Conrad says he is glad they were finally able to discuss this topic, and hypes JR's new book as the interview wraps up. ~End of Interview~