The Thread Killer

Monday Mailbag with Mike Chioda 01/11/21 Hosted by Conrad Thompson Note from The Thread Killer: I am going to try something different and recap a Q & A. Also, I have never recapped something as I listen to it for the first time, but I am doing that now. That could turn out to be a mistake, because if this episode is boring I’ll have ended up wasting my time. However, Conrad Thompson claimed (and this could be, and probably is nothing more than carny hype) that some of the answers on this podcast are “shocking” and will probably get reported on Pro Wrestling news sites. So I figured...why not try it? If it doesn’t work, I won’t do it again. * * * * * Conrad welcomes everybody to the podcast and wishes everybody a Happy New Year. Conrad says that over the holidays, the Ad Free Shows subscribers have submitted a bunch of great questions for former WWE referee of over 30 years...Mike Chidoa, so let’s get to it. Question: What was a bigger shock to Mike Chioda, Dusty Rhodes coming to the WWF in 1989, Ric Flair coming in 1991, Hulk Hogan going to WCW in 1994, or Hulk Hogan returning in 2002? Mike says Hogan going to WCW shocked him. Hogan says after all the years he had worked with Hulk Hogan it was shocking to him that he would ever leave the WWF. Mike says he is happy that when Hogan returned, he got the opportunity to be the referee for the Hogan/Rock match at Wrestlemania 18. (Sidenote: Mike Chioda has said in a recent episode that match was one of the most memorable of his career, and he even did a “watch along” of the match with AFS subscribers.) Conrad follows up: Knowing that Mike grew up a WWF fan and worked with WWF exclusively, did he think it was a big deal when Dusty came to the WWF in 1989? Mike says that even though he hadn’t been an NWA fan, he understood what a big deal it was when Dusty signed with the WWF. Mike points out that some people might not realize it, but Dusty made an impact when he came into the WWF. Mike says he refereed at countless house shows, and he remembers that sometimes a WWF show might not draw many fans when they ran a show in the South, or in what might be considered “NWA Country.” Mike says as soon as Dusty was on the WWF roster, the attendance on those house shows increased significantly, just because Dusty was on the card and there were fans who were coming out pretty much just to see Dusty Rhodes live. Conrad follows up: What about Ric Flair? Mike says he was shocked that Flair came especially with the World Title, but he thought it was great because Ric Flair was an icon and a great performer. Question: Has Mike tried “Kojack’s BBQ” since he moved to Tampa? Mike says no he hasn’t but he will try it out, because he loves BBQ. (Ugh...I’m starting to regret this decision already and I’m only four minutes into the show.) Conrad follows up: Since Mike has been pretty much everywhere in the world during his 30+ year career, is there one place that stands out for having the best BBQ? Mike says there is a place in Texas that he remembers in Houston, but he forgets the name of the place. Mike says he lived in Texas for 14 years. Conrad follows up: Since he lived in Texas, does Mike like Brisket? Conrad says he knows most Texans love their Brisket. Mike says he does, but says he was surprised when he went to Montreal that they have excellent Brisket as well, except they called it “Smoked Meat.” Mike asks if Conrad has tried it? Conrad says no, he has never been to Montreal, but he would like to. Conrad says that Eric has told him that the Strip Clubs in Montreal are “out of this world.” (Sidenote: Well actually, he’s right about that. I hear. I’ve never been to a Strip Club of course. I mean...Strip Clubs are bad, and you should never, ever go to one. And you should especially never date a stripper, because it might seem like a good idea when you’re drunk...except she’ll probably end up being a coke head, and her jealous ex-boyfriend might attack you, and when you fight back the cops end up being called and then you end up spending the night in jail. I mean...hypothetically of course. I don’t know anybody who actually did that. ) Mike laughs and agrees Eric is correct. Mike says everything about Montreal is great, especially the Smoked Meat at Shwartz’s Deli. Mike says he had been going there for years, and he was introduced to the place by Pat Patterson. Question: Do you have any memories of working in Pittsburgh or Buffalo? The fan asking has lived in both towns and doesn’t think either town gets enough credit as being a “great wrestling town.” Mike says that is true. Mike says both towns were underrated, but both drew sold out houses. Mike says he remembers refereeing some great Rock/Mankind matches at house shows in Pittsburgh, and of course that is where the infamous Hell in a Cell match with Foley and The Undertaker happened. Mike says he will never forget running down to the ring after Foley fell through the cage. He noticed Foley had a big booger hanging out of his nose and he was going to tell him to wipe it, but then he realized it was his tooth that had somehow become lodged up his nose. Mike says he will never forget that night. Question: As a fan...not just as a referee, does Mike have a favorite match of all time? Mike says his favorite match is Rock/Hogan from Wrestlemania 18. He says he doesn’t understand why that match was not the Main Event. Question: Does Mike have a favorite era in Pro Wrestling. Mike says “The Attitude Era” without a doubt. Conrad says that surprises him. Conrad says what made The Attitude Era better than the Hogan Era in the 80’s? Mike says the fact that the content was more for adults, not just kids. Mike also says that the roster was much better in The Attitude Era, there were more stars it wasn’t just Hogan. Mike says he remembers the crowds being better during The Attitude Era. Mike says it felt like you could do whatever you wanted then. Mike says he liked that women were always flashing their boobs at DX and it was a lot of fun. Question: Does Mike have any good Brodie Lee stories, and what was Mike’s experience like working with him? Mike says he has a lot of fond memories of Brodie Lee backstage, he was a great guy. Mike says he loved his look. Mike says that Luke Harper really stood out, especially when you compared him to guys like Randy Orton, with the short hair, and muscles. Mike says Luke Harper had a great look for Pro Wrestling, and as far as he’s concerned, that is what Pro Wrestlers are supposed to look like. Mike says Luke Harper was old school. Mike repeats that Luke Harper was just a really good guy and treated everybody backstage nicely. Mike says he spent a lot of time talking to Brodie when they did European tours, and was so excited to see him again this past August in AEW. Mike says “God Bless Him” and gets a bit choked up at this point. Conrad follows up: Did Mike ever meet Danny Hodge? Mike says that he did meet Danny Hodge, and the thing that stuck out to him right away is that Hodge’s hands were huge. Mike says he saw Danny crush an apple with his hand once backstage, when somebody asked him to. Mike says he tried to crush an apple with one hand later, to see if he could do it and he couldn’t. Mike says at first he thought it was a work...but it wasn’t, Danny Hodge just had amazingly strong hands, even in his later years when Mike met him. Conrad agrees. He says if anybody wants to see him do it, they should check out YouTube. Hodge still hand unreal hand strength as a Senior Citizen, and Conrad says he was a “different level of human being.” Question: Aside from the Screwjob and Jerry Lawler’s heart attack, does Mike have any memories of Montreal? (More Montreal? What the hell?) Mike says he loved working with Dino Bravo and Frenchie Martin. Mike says you wouldn’t believe the crowd reaction Dino Bravo used to get in Montreal. Mike remembers that before Bravo even signed with WWF full time, they would bring him in for their Montreal house shows and he would end up being the most popular guy on the show. Mike says it was a similar situation with Jacques Rougeau, but in reverse. Mike says when Rougeau was “The Mountie” in Montreal, the fans absolutely hated him, which Mike always found odd because he was from Montreal. Conrad follows up: Does Mike remember the ovation Hogan got the night after Wrestlemania 18 in Montreal, when he came out in the “Red and Yellow?” (Sidenote: Not to be a nerd here...but Conrad is confusing his “Hulk Hogan Montreal ovations.” Hogan did come out the night after Wrestlemania 18 in Montreal, and got a massive, sustained ovation...but he was still wearing his NWO gear that night. As big as that ovation was... What Conrad is thinking about is when Hogan appeared on Smackdown in Montreal in 2002, wearing the Red and Yellow. The crowd literally cheered for five minutes straight and wouldn’t let Hogan talk, and Hogan has since said that it was the biggest, loudest crowd reaction he ever got in his career. I watched that on YouTube once and it still gave me goosebumps. And of course, you can’t see it in it’s proper context on the WWE Network, because they edited out his theme music.) Mike says he remembers that ovation, because Hogan was supposed to cut a promo but the crowd literally wouldn’t let him speak they were cheering so loud. Mike says it gave him chills. Conrad follows up: Does Mike remember the reaction Elias got a few years ago when he cut a promo in Seattle, making fun of the their Basketball Team moving to Oklahoma City? Mike says he does remember that, and he was shocked because it was pretty typical “cheap heat” but it was one of the loudest negative reactions he can remember hearing from fans in a long time. Question: Does Mike have any stories about Pat Patterson? Mike says he knew Pat Patterson for 35 years, and they got along great. Mike says that Pat loved the way Mike worked, and he once told Mike “when the referee is not even seen in the ring, you’re doing your job.” Mike says Pat was very complimentary towards him. Mike says Pat used to rib him all the time, and always used to get him with the old joke: “Hey Mike, do you know who was just asking about you?” “No.” “Absolutely nobody.” Mike then tells a story about how one night, he was in a nightclub in Philly, when the bouncer came up to him. Mike says the bouncer was one of the biggest men he had ever seen, and as soon as he saw him, he thought it was the second coming of Andre the Giant. Mike says he remembers how big the bouncer’s hands were, it reminded him of Andre. Mike says he knew Andre, and thought he’d never meet anybody like him again, but now he had. Mike says the bouncer told him that he knew who Mike was, and asked if he would pass his contact information to the WWF because he was interested in becoming a Pro Wrestler. Mike says the bouncer gave him his phone number. Mike says the next time he went to work, he went straight to Pat Patterson and gave him the phone number. Mike says he told Pat that he absolutely had to see this guy, because he looked just like Andre the Giant and that the WWF should take a look at this guy, right away. Mike says Pat told him that he would look into it, but Mike never heard anything more about it after that. Mike says much later on, he was passing the “Gorilla Position” backstage, and they had a monitor on which was showing WCW Monday Nitro. “The Giant” was on the screen, and Mike says that Vince was marvelling at The Giant’s size and that he couldn’t believe WCW had signed him. Pat Patterson was there, and agreed with Vince. Mike says he interrupted Pat and Vince McMahon and said: “Hey Pat...that’s the guy! That’s the bouncer from the nightclub that gave me his phone number, and I gave it to you! I can’t believe you never called that guy.” Mike says things got very quiet, Pat’s eyes bugged out and Vince slowly turned and looked at Pat Patterson and said: “What the fuck, Pat? We could have signed this guy?” Before Pat could reply, Vince turned and asked Mike to excuse them, so Vince and Pat could talk in private. Later that night, Pat Patterson came up to Mike and chewed him out for getting Pat in trouble with Vince McMahon. Mike says he apologized, but he reiterated that he was shocked that Pat never called the guy after Mike had begged him to call him and talked about how big the guy was. Pat replied: “I just thought you had run into Giant Gonzalez!” A couple of years later, Paul Wight finally came to the WWF as “The Big Show” of course. Mike says that the first time he saw The Big Show backstage, Mike just so happened to be standing with Pat Patterson. Mike says The Big Show came right up to him, and shook his hand...but he said sarcastically: “Nice to see you again. Thanks a fucking lot for passing on my phone number.” Mike says he put his hands up in the air and said: “Hey, don’t blame me. I gave your number to this guy right here, he’s the guy you should talk to.” Mike then pointed at Pat Patterson. Mike says Pat got a confused look on his face, looked at Mike and then The Big Show innocently and said: “I have no idea what you’re talking about.” (Sidenote: I have seen a couple of interviews with The Big Show where he said he had reached out to the WWF before he got signed by WCW, but they had no interest. I guess now we know that story is true, and the details. I hope I did this story justice by recapping it, because it was really funny.) Question: While refereeing a match, when both wrestlers are outside the ring and the referee is required to do a ten count...does the referee have to “work” the count to make sure that both guys get back into the ring in time, or is it the responsibility of the wrestlers to listen to the count, and make sure they both get back in before the count of ten? Mike laughs and says: “always.” Mike says you pretty much always have to work the count, and says there have been many occasions when he got as high as counting to eight but the wrestlers were still not in the ring, so he would have to break his own count, roll out of the ring and under his breath he would tell the wrestlers to get back in the ring. Mike says there were also occasions that the wrestlers were too far away from him to hear him if he talked quietly, he would have to yell at them to get back in the ring. It would look to the fans like he was just being a tough referee, but in reality he really was yelling at them because they were spending too much time outside the ring, and he was being told in his earpiece to make them get back in the ring. Mike says that at one point for years, just one wrestler could roll back in the ring to break the count, but then roll right back out. Mike says the WWF changed the rules so that was no longer allowed, and both wrestlers would have to be back in the ring by the count of ten, otherwise it was a countout. Mike says literally 95% of the ten counts you see are worked. Question: What was Shawn Michaels like to work with, prior to his back injury in 1998? Are the rumors of him being hard to work with true? Mike says Shawn was always good with him, but he was extremely particular about his referees. Mike says Shawn was a big fan of what he called the “one...two...not today” spot, which was basically Shawn kicking out right before the three count. Mike says that Shawn really liked doing that spot so it was important to him that he meet with the referee before the match and plan it out in advance. Mike says that Shawn really liked cutting it as close as possible and kicking out at the last microsecond, so Shawn was very particular about the referee being able to handle that spot, otherwise it could wrong. Mike admits that there were a few times that he screwed up spots in the ring during a Shawn Michaels match and that Shawn would yell at him, either in the ring or backstage after the match. Mike says that they always got past conflicts like that, and that Shawn understood accidents happened when you do the same spot over and over, there are bound to be times things get screwed up. Mike says Shawn was a perfectionist and despite the fact that there were many times that Shawn freaked out on him, he still knew Shawn respected him. Mike says that outside the ring, he and Shawn always got along well. Mike says that when he was younger, back during the days of The Rockers, Mike would always try and find out what nightclub or bar The Rockers would be going to after the show, and then he would go there too because it was guaranteed that the place would be packed with good looking girls. Mike says it was not uncommon to walk past The Rockers hotel room and there would be five women in there with them. Mike says he would have a hard time picking up women but The Rockers would have women to spare, so he would knock on their hotel room window begging to be let in. Conrad follows up: Conrad had heard rumors that The Rockers had so many girls trying to come back to their room, that Shawn and Marty started coming up with all sorts of outlandish conditions or tests the girls had to pass, in order to be allowed to come back to the hotel with them. Conrad said the craziest rumor he had heard was that The Rockers would tell some girls that if they wanted to come back to the room with them, they would have to shave their heads bald, to prove that they were serious. Conrad asks if that is true or if it is just an exaggerated Locker Room urban legend. Mike says he personally witnessed The Rockers do just that. Mike says that some girls were so desperate to come back to the room with Shawn and Marty that The Rockers started to make all these outlandish demands to see how far they could push it, and yes...Mike personally witnessed girls willingly shaving their heads just for a chance to come to the hotel room with Shawn and Marty. Conrad is shocked at this revelation and actually yells “WHAT?” Conrad says he had always assumed that was just a myth. Mike said he saw one girl shave half her head, and then The Rockers told her to finish the job, so she went all the way and shaved her entire head. Mike says he couldn’t believe the lengths some girls would go to, just for a chance to go back to the hotel room with The Rockers. Conrad says that they should make it clear...Mike never saw The Rockers do this to a girl who was passed out, only to girls who would do it willingly? Mike says yes...he only ever saw girls do this to themselves willingly and he never witnessed anybody getting their head shaved when they were unable to consent, or against their will. Mike says The Rockers would always book rooms at a “Rodeway Inn” because they had hot tubs, and they would always have a cooler full of beer back at the room after the bar closed. Conrad says that he should clarify that Shawn Michaels is no longer the kind of person that would do that kind of thing and that he had changed. Conrad asks if he noticed a change in Shawn Michaels after his comeback? Mike says not really, but that is only because he and Shawn always had a good relationship to begin with and never really had any problems. Mike says that when The Rockers first came into the WWF, he was usually the referee in all their matches, and he can’t even count how many Rockers matches he worked. Mike says that Conrad might not know it, but Pat Patterson was actually the person in the WWF who saw The Rockers and brought them to Vince’s attention, and really advocated them getting a job. Mike says The Rockers had a bad reputation in the industry before they came to the WWF, but Pat convinced Vince McMahon to hire them. Mike says it is too bad Marty Jannetty went in a bad direction after The Rockers broke up. Conrad says that everybody he always talked to in the industry has always told him that when The Rockers broke up, it was assumed that Marty Jannetty was the better Pro Wrestler and was going to be the breakout star of the team, not Shawn Michaels. Conrad asks if Mike thinks one of The Rockers was better than the other. Mike says they were both great workers, but Marty went in a bad direction. Mike says it’s always inevitable when a Tag Team breaks up, one guy will “take off” and the other will flounder. Shawn did well without Marty, Bret Hart did great without The Anvil, and Jacques Rougeau did great without his brother Raymond. Mike says that he always thought that would happen when The Shield broke up, that Roman or maybe Seth would turn out to be the big star...but they all made it and that is one of the few stories of all the members of a team or stable going on to great individual success. Conrad asks if Mike ever heard the rumor that The Shield was actually CM Punk’s idea and he wanted to bring them up from NXT to be his goons, except with Chris Hero instead of Roman Reigns? Mike says he had never heard that rumor. Question: Mike Chioda was at the infamous “Public Workout” in Boston right before Wrestlemania 14. Does he have any memories of that crazy event? Mike says he does not remember that event. Conrad reminds him that shortly before Wrestlemania 14, the WWF held an outdoor show in the public square in downtown Boston. The whole purpose of the event was to shoot an angle leading into the Shawn Michaels/Stone Cold match. The crowd was very rowdy, and while Shawn Michaels was in the middle of cutting a promo a fan threw a battery and hit him in the head. Shawn stormed out of the ring, and had to be convinced to return because they had to shoot the angle where DX and Mike Tyson tied Stone Cold up in the ropes and kissed him. Mike says he doesn't remember that. Question: Does Mike have any memories of pranks or ribs pulled on him during the Attitude Era? Mike says that DX used to tease him all the time when they were in the ring. Mike says it was “so much fun.” Billy Gunn used to hit him in the nuts (Mike Chioda clearly has a different definition of the word “fun” than I do) and Chyna was always messing up his hair. Mike says DX did whatever they wanted to do, they were always trying to trip him up...but it was “good ribs.” Question: What was it like being in the ring on the Monday Night Raw, the night after Wrestlemania 30? Mike was refereeing a match between Sheamus and Randy Orton, and the fans were not into it, so they started chanting “Mike Chioda!” Mike says he remembers that night very well, “it was awesome” because that was the first time any fans had ever chanted his name, and he loved it. Mike says he really wanted to react to the chants, but he knew he was supposed to appear to be impartial, and if he reacted to the chants that would make him a babyface, and he would get into trouble when he went backstage. Mike says it was hard to maintain his composure, but inside he was eating it up. Mike said Randy Orton was very, very angry during that match, and he was actually complaining in the ring during the whole match. Mike says Randy kept complaining the match was stupid and never should have been booked, and kept saying “why are we even wrestling?” Mike said he apologized to Randy Orton but there is nothing he could have done. Question: Has there ever been a big moment or surprise that not only shocked the fans, but the wrestlers and referees as well? Mike says that very rarely happens, because referees are always told ahead of time about what is going to happen during the match, and how they are expected to react. Mike says you can’t really pull a surprise on a referee and expect them to do their job properly. Conrad asks if Mike was surprised by the appearance of Eric Bischoff in WWE. Mike says that yes...Eric Bischoff showing up at Raw definitely was a total surprise and very people backstage knew that was going to happen. Mike says that actually shocked him. Mike says that he was surprised Vince McMahon would want to work with Eric Bischoff after all the things Eric had said about Vince while he was running WCW. Mike says nobody should underestimate how much Vince McMahon hated Eric Bischoff. Mike tells a hilarious story about while Eric Bischoff was running WCW, he paid a ton of money and arranged to have a billboard advertising WCW Monday Nitro, right outside WWE Headquarters. Mike says somebody must have told Eric where Vince’s office was, because the billboard was directly facing Vince’s office window...so every time Vince looked out the window all he could see was a giant WCW billboard. Mike says he knows Vince had to look at it every day, and it drove him nuts. Mike says that he knows how Vince McMahon thinks. Mike says Vince would work with pretty much anybody if he thought it would make him money. However, Mike says if Vince ever hires somebody who has upset him in the past, Vince will always find a way to get revenge on the person and humiliate or embarrass them as payback. Mike thinks Vince hired Eric Bischoff partially because he thought he was a good talent, but also so he could screw with him, and humiliate him and get revenge. Mike says he was rarely shocked when Vince would bring back somebody who left the WWF under bad circumstances, but he definitely admits he never thought he’d see Eric Bischoff in WWE. Question: What does Mike Chioda think of the recent angle where Randy Orton set The Fiend on fire? Mike says he doesn’t know anything about that. Conrad fills him in on the “Firefly Funhouse Inferno Match.” Mike says he does not watch WWE, he watches AEW and based on what he has heard about the ratings lately, he isn’t the only one who isn’t watching WWE anymore. Question: How many years do you have to work in the business to earn the title “Senior Referee?” Mike says that when you look at cars, 15 years is a classic, 25 years is an antique. When it comes to referees, 15-20 years makes you a Senior Referee. Mike says it takes a very long time to learn to be a referee and it takes at least 15 years to learn all the different tricks. Question: During his entire WWF/E career, was Mike ever asked to do something that he was uncomfortable with, that he refused to do? Mike says yes, absolutely. “Be a stooge.” Conrad asks Mike to explain. Mike says that when a new Vice President of Talent Relations started in WWE, he met with all the referees and told them that it was now part of his job to basically spy on the talent, and inform the office what they were up to. For example, Mike was told he needed to start making notes about what time the wrestlers were arriving at the arenas for house shows, and report back to the office if they were late, and by how much. Mike says he was actually told he needed to hide in the corner and basically spy on the wrestlers and report back to the office. Mike says that was something that he would absolutely not do. Mike says that WWE have totally changed the responsibilities of the referees over the past few years. Mike says that the refs used to be the ring crew, drive the trucks, and then referee the matches. Mike says now, the office basically uses the referees as gophers and stooges, and that Mike does not think that is the job of a referee. Mike says that in WWE, referees do not get paid transportation or lodging. Mike says referees have to pay their own way everywhere, and pay for hotel rooms. Mike says that if you are friends with the wrestlers, they will split expenses with you, share a car and a hotel room. Mike says if the wrestlers know you are going to go back to the office and report on everything you see and hear, then they will not trust you and it won’t work. Mike says nobody wants to travel with a stooge. Mike says that when a referee stooges on the talent to the office, the office then turns around and fines the talent $500 - $1000 for being late. So why would a Pro Wrestler want to travel with or be friends with somebody who could cost them money? Conrad asks who were Mike’s favorite Talent Relations executives, and who were his least favorites? Mike says without a doubt, his favorite VP of Talent Relations, was Jim Ross. Mike says Jim Ross was a man, he was old school and his handshake meant something. Mike says that if JR told you something was going to get done, it got done. Mike says that JR took great care of the referees, because he understood how important they were. Mike says JR came up in the business and JR’s first job in the Pro Wrestling business was as a referee so he had respect for the refs. Mike says while JR was in charge of the referees, there weren’t even any employment contracts for the refs, everything was done on a handshake deal, but Mike didn’t feel insecure about that because he trusted JR. Mike says JR was in charge of the pay for the referees, and he paid very well and even gave performance bonuses. Conrad asks who was the worst? Mike doesn’t hesitate and says Mark Carrano. Conrad says he is not surprised to hear Mike say that, because he has never heard anybody say anything nice about Mark Carrano. Conrad asks why Carrano has so much heat with everybody? Mike says: “because he’s the shits.” Mike says Mark Carrano has paid no dues in the Pro Wrestling business. He never put together a ring. He never worked as a ring attendant taking robes. He never drove the truck. He never refereed a match. Mike says maybe Mark paid his dues in the office, but not with the boys. Mike says Mark Carrano is just that...a “mark.” Not his name, that’s what he is...a mark. Mike says he might as well be honest...he was talking about Mark Carrano when he just told the story about being ordered to “stooge” on the wrestlers in WWE. Mike says that is probably what cost him his job in WWE, the fact that he wouldn’t stooge on the boys. Mike says that you can’t trust Mark Carrano, he will tell you one thing but say something else behind his back. Mike says that when Carrano fired him, he was told it was because he was making so much money, because he had been there so long...but Mike knows for a fact it was actually because he refused to spy on the boys, like the other refs did. Mike says that’s why they got rid of a lot of the old school refs. Conrad asks for examples of some of the things Mark Carrano has done that the Pro Wrestlers and referees didn’t like. Mike says they don’t have enough time on the podcast to list that many things. Mike says he won’t even look you in the eye when he talks to you. Mike says he knows it was Mark Carrano’s idea to fire him and they just used the Pandemic as an excuse. Mike says he doesn’t think that Vince McMahon or Stephanie wanted him fired, but he thinks Mark Carrano did so he talked Triple H into approving it, and then Carrano fired him. Conrad asks what is was like for Mike working with Mark Carrano when he disliked him this much. Mike says he was professional with him, but he didn’t like him so he avoided him as much as he could. Mike says he understands that the VP of Talent Relations is a thankless job and that Vince always puts all the heat on whoever is in that position, but he just didn’t like, trust or respect Mark Carrano. Mike says this is the first time he’s talked about Mark Carrano since he was released,and he doesn’t like talking about him. Mike says: “when you put somebody’s name out there, you’re putting them over either way, bad or good” and he doesn’t want to do anything to put Mark Carrano over. Conrad says he can tell Mike is getting upset talking about this, so he apologizes and says they will move on. Mike says it’s okay...but he doesn’t even like to think about Mark Carrano because he didn’t pay his dues and turned the referee’s job in WWE into something Mike doesn’t agree with. Conrad says he will find a different question, so they can talk about something happier. Question: Was there a referee Mike Chioda looked up to when he was growing up and getting into the business. Mike says definitely Joey Marella. Mike says that although he ended up having a totally different style from Joey, especially when it came to counting, he really looked up to Joey Marella and emulated a lot of the things he did, and how he carried himself. Mike says Joey set a great example for a young referee. Mike says another example would be Dick Woehrle. Mike says he was very old school, he wore wrestling boots under his referee uniform and took the business and his job very seriously, and Mike really looked up to him for that. Mike says he grew up in the business idolizing Dick Woehrle. Question: Has Mike ever had to prevent fans from entering the ring to attack the wrestlers. Mike says that has happened many times during house shows. Mike says there are two different situations. Mike says sometimes kids will rush the ring because they are excited or want to touch their favorite wrestlers or get involved in the match. Mike says in cases like that, he would just grab the kid and hold them until security came to escort the fan away. Mike says he would never want to hurt a young kid. Mike said the other, scarier scenario is when a fan rushes the ring with the specific intent to harm somebody. Mike says that once when he was refereeing a Stone Cold/Triple H match in Germany, a crazed fan rushed the ring and tried to attack Stone Cold, but the Security Guard just stood there and didn’t do anything because he thought it was part of the show. Mike says Hunter managed to get the fan down and had him in a chokehold, but the guy was crazy and kept fighting. Mike says he tried to help and kept trying to kick the fan, but he kept accidentally hitting Triple H and Triple H finally yelled at Mike and told him to stop kicking him in the head. Mike says the incident is on YouTube, and if you watch it you will see Mike accidentally kicking Triple H in the head. Question: Is there any heat between Mike Chioda and the Hebner Brothers, since Mike pretty much took over the Senior Referee position in WWE after Earl and Dave Hebner were fired? Mike says he hopes not, because there is no heat on his part. Mike says he always got along great with Earl, who taught him a lot and he really liked Dave Hebner. Mike says Dave Hebner was an agent but he used to be a referee so he respected the refs. Mike says at one point, Dave Hebner was the agent in charge of all the referees and he always took very good care of Mike and paid bonuses. Mike points out the Earl’s son Brian is also a referee and is really good at his job. Question: What is Mike Chioda’s current status with AEW and would he want to work there full time? Mike says he is friends with Cody Rhodes, so after Mike got released Cody called him and said he wanted to bring Mike in to AEW on a part time basis. Mike says Cody told him he wanted an experienced referee for the big PPV and TV matches, and for important angles, because he trusted Mike. Mike says he does not have a contract with AEW but he would love to work there full time if the chance ever presented itself. Mike says the atmosphere backstage in AEW is totally different from WWE, it is so much more relaxed but still professional. Mike says he especially likes being around all the young talent who are still coming up in the business. Mike says he hopes to work more for AEW in the future. Question: Did Mike have a good relationship with Chris Benoit? Mike says he had a great relationship with Chris Benoit, and that he considered him a friend. Mike says Chris gave him the nickname “Coyote.” Mike says the main thing with Chris Benoit was that he was big on respect for the business and the Locker Room. Mike says that if Benoit thought you were being disrespectful to the boys or the Locker Room, he would kick you out and he saw Benoit do that several times over the years. Mike says that if Chris Benoit let you sit down next to him, then you knew he respected you, and he had sat down next to Benoit many times. Mike tells a funny story about a time Chris Benoit came up to him at a show, and showed him a picture. The picture was of Chris Benoit putting the Crippler Crossface on Brock Lesnar. Mike says Brock Lesnar had a big line of drool hanging out of his mouth, and then Mike looked at Chris Benoit and Benoit also had big line of drool hanging out of his mouth too. Chris told Mike to look at himself, so Mike looked at his own face in the picture. In the picture, Mike was yelling at Brock and asking him if he wanted to give up, and sure enough Mike Chiolda had a big line of drool hanging out of his mouth too. Mike says he and Chris Benoit laughed their heads off over the picture of all three guys drooling. Mike asked Chris to sign the picture and says he still has the hilarious photo to this day, of himself, Chris Benoit and Brock Lesnar all drooling. Conrad asks Mike if he ever saw signs of Chris Benoit having a bad temper or being a bit unbalanced? Mike says yes, he has to admit he did. Mike says one time WWE was on an extended European tour, and they were in England. Mike says they had been on the road for about 10 days at that point and everybody was very tired. Mike says they pulled into their hotel in Manchester and when they went into the lobby, there was a huge crowd of English Football/Soccer players in the lobby, and they were all drunk. Mike says as soon as the British Footballers saw the WWE wrestlers, they started mocking them and shooting their mouths off. Mike says that one thing lead to another, and soon enough there was a massive brawl going on in the lobby of the hotel between all the WWE wrestlers and the Footballers. Mike says it was hilarious, because Johnny Ace was there and was running around trying to get everybody to calm down, but nobody was listening. Mike does a humorous (and fairly accurate) intimation of Johnny Ace at this point. Mike says at one point during the fight, a huge footballer walked up to Dave Batista and squared off with him nose to nose. Mike says the footballer was talking all sorts of trash, claiming that he was the World Kickboxing Champion and that he was going to kick Batista’s ass, etc. Batista called the guy on, but before anything could happen, Chris Benoit showed up and physically inserted himself between Batista and the footballer. Mike pointed out that Batista was much bigger and more physically imposing than Benoit was, but the footballer wasn’t the least bit scared of Batista, in fact he was encouraging Batista to fight. Mike claims that as soon as Chris Benoit interjected in the fight, he got right up in the footballer’s face and Benoit looked absolutely insane with his eyes looking all crazy. Mike says as soon as Benoit got into the guy’s face, the guy looked terrified and he literally ran away from Chris Benoit because he looked enraged and insane. Mike says he couldn’t believe at first that the footballer wanted to fight Batista but ran away from Benoit, but when Benoit turned around and Mike saw the expression in his face, Mike understood because Benoit looked insane. Conrad says he has actually heard about that fight before. Conrad says that Hurricane Helms told him the story of that fight “off the air” and that Helms had told Conrad that Benoit was acting insane that night. Conrad says that Helms told him that Chris Benoit actually put the Crippler Crossface on a guy for real during that fight. Mike confirms that is true. Conrad says Hurricane Helms told him that the fight was in a bar, but Mike corrected him and said that the fight was in the hotel lobby, but there was a bar in the lobby. Mike says they are talking about the same fight. Question: Mike was a referee and was not involved in creative, but was there ever a time that he had a really good idea and pitched it somebody? Mike says not really. Mike says he kept to himself. Mike says he did help plan finishes, but storylines were up to the writers, producers and Vince. Mike says he did help contribute an idea for the finish for a Money in the Bank match. Mike says he envisioned two guys fighting on the top of the ladder for the briefcase, when the briefcase opens...one guy grabs the briefcase but the other pulls out the contract at the same time, and they both hit the mat. Mike said he thought it would be interesting since the briefcase means nothing without the contract, but the contract is not official without the briefcase. Mike says Pat Patterson loved the idea, and pitched it to Vince but Vince shot it down. Question: Did Mike ever referee a match where he had to tell the participants to pick up the pace because they were losing the crowd? Mike laughs and says yes, many times. Mike said if the crowd was getting restless then he would be told through his earpiece to tell the wrestlers to pick up the pace and get things going. Question: What was it like being the referee during a match involving Vince McMahon? Did Vince take his cues from Mike like the other wrestlers, or did he do what he wanted because he was the boss? How did it feel being able to boss Vince around during the match? Mike says when he refereed matches with Vince he would tell him how to do something, but not what to do. Mike said Vince actually relied on Mike’s perspective on things during his matches. Mike says nobody ever told Vince what to do. Mike says he was flattered when Vince wanted him to referee his matches, because that meant Vince had confidence in him. Question: Did the production crew hang out with “the boys” or did they stick to themselves? Also, did Mike Chioda ever go gambling with Gorilla Monsoon? Mike says he did gamble with Gorilla in the Atlantic City Casinos, but mostly with Joey since they were friends. Mike says everybody always hung out together, the crew and the boys because they all stayed at the same hotel. Mike said it was different for TV production, because they had their own bus and were on a different schedule from the boys...but if they could they all hung out together. Question: Do you think it would be feasible for WWE to go back to just running 6 PPV events a year? Mike says that when you only run 4-6 PPV shows a year, it gave the creative staff much more time to build up the storylines between the talent and you could keep guys apart until their big match. Mike says monthly PPV shows really hurts the buildup for the shows and it got repetitive. Mike says less would be better. Question: Was Mike there when The Undertaker got badly burned at Elimination Chamber 2010, and if so what was it like? Mike: “He was PISSED.” Mike says the pyro guy got fired for that. Mike says he remembers how angry The Undertaker was, but that the fault was totally on the pyro guy, he messed up the cues. Mike says The Undertaker could have literally been killed. Question: Was there any time Mike missed his “go home” cue and messed up the finish, so he got in trouble for it? Mike says no, not really. Mike said he used to mess up once in a while at Live Events but he can’t remember ever messing up a TV or PPV match. Question: Does Mike remember the first time he refereed a match on TV, and if so who was in the match and where was it? Mike says he made his TV debut in 1989, and he is pretty sure it was a singles match between Marty Janetty and Duane Gill. Mike says he has saved a program with a picture of the match, and he is pretty sure the reason he saved that program and picture is because he is in the picture and it was his first match. Question: Does Mike have any stories or insight into when Seth Rollins cashed in his Money in the Bank briefcase at Wrestlemania 31 and changed the Main Event, since Mike was the referee for the match? Did Mike know how that was going to go down? Mike says during the whole week leading up to the match, it was just supposed to be Reigns vs. Lesnar and he had been prepared for that, when all of the sudden the day of the show they totally changed it. Mike says of course he knew before the match that the finish had been changed, but he didn’t know prior to the day of Wrestlemania. Mike says he thought it was a great moment. Mike says he was really happy for Seth Rollins because he worked so hard and was always trying to improve every week. Mike says he is proud of Seth, he was a hell of guy and a good worker. Question: Was there anybody that Mike never got to work with, that he wishes he had? Mike says as he records this podcast, he is looking at a picture in his office with himself and Bruno Sammartino and he would have loved to work a Bruno match back when he used to sell out Madison Square Garden. Mike says he would have loved to referee a match involving Gorilla Monsoon, Blackjack Lanza or Renee Goulet. Mike says he wished he would have got the chance to work with Jesse Ventura as well. Question: What did Mike Chioda’s parents think when he told them he was going to get into the Pro Wrestling business? Mike laughs and says: “They didn’t like it!” Mike says he was refereeing when he was only 16 years old, working for Víctor Quiñones in the Philly and South Jersey. Mike says Gorilla Monsoon had set that up for him, since Mike grew up with Joey Marella and knew Gorilla when he was just a kid. Mike says he made a ton of money as a teenager and his Mom freaked out when she found rolls of money in his sock drawer. Mike says that his parents were worried because by the time he was 17 years old he owned four cars from all the money he was making. Mike says he had always wanted to be a professional baseball player, but then Victor started paying him $500 a night to sell programs and referee. (Sidenote: What the hell?! I smell bullshit.) Mike said that because his parents didn’t like him working in Pro Wrestling, he quit for a while and got a job as a machinist, but eventually he quit that and went back to Pro Wrestling. Mike says once his Dad saw him on TV, he was proud of him and accepted that Mike was a referee. Mike says his parents didn’t think Pro Wrestling was a serious job and they were very skeptical about it at first, but they came around. Question: Since Mike is from New Jersey, does that mean he is a Bruce Springsteen fan? Mike says he is a huge Bruce Springsteen fan. Mike says his favorite song is “Jersey Girl.” Mike says he has seen Springsteen in concert four times. Mike says he can’t believe it when some people say Jon Bon Jovi is the best performer from New Jersey because it is Bruce Springsteen, for sure. Question: What is the role of a referee during a Royal Rumble? Mike says there is not much for a referee to do during a Royal Rumble, just stand around the ring and make the call if somebody goes over the top rope, or if they go through the ropes. Question: What does Mike think of the last World Title run Hulk Hogan had in 2002? Mike says he liked that Hogan went back to the Red and Yellow, but that the highlight of Hogan’s final run was the Rock/Hogan match and maybe that should have been the end for Hogan. But he knows Hogan had a lot of fun during his last run, and he knows that the fans enjoyed the nostalgia. Mike says it couldn’t compare to the 80’s. Question: Did a wrestler ever do such a good job of selling during a match that Mike thought they were actually injured? Or did anybody ever pretend to be injured as a “rib?” Mike says no, he could usually tell. Mike says there were some guys that would rib him and pretend to be hurt, but all that stopped when WWE introduced the “Concussion Protocol” and everybody started taking in ring injuries much more seriously. Mike says after the Concussion Protocol was introduced, nobody would ever pretend to be injured if they weren’t. Question: During the Hogan/Rock match at Wrestlemania, was Mike involved in discussing the two men switching roles between heel and babyface during the match? Also, can Mike clear up the rumor that Hall and Nash coming down to attack Hogan was an “on the fly” decision that was made once Vince saw the way the fans were cheering for Hulk Hogan? Mike says Hogan and The Rock were totally surprised by the crowd reaction, especially when Hogan made his entrance. Mike says Hogan and The Rock talked between themselves during the match and decided to switch roles, and Mike didn’t really have anything to do with it. Mike says he was “marking out” during the match for the reaction Hogan was getting. Mike says it was always planned that Hall and Nash would get involved in the match, but he’s not sure it was always planned for them to turn on Hogan. But Mike is very sure it was always part of the plan for Hall and Nash to come down to the ring at the end of the match. Mike said Hulk Hogan was in a lot of pain during that match, and he actually broke a rib during the match. Question: Was Mike Chioda on “The Plane Ride from Hell?” Mike doesn’t know which plane ride was the plane ride from hell...was it the flight from Japan to Russia where they all almost died due to a snow storm? Conrad clarifies that the flight he is referring to is the flight back to the USA from England, when everybody got drunk and Michael Hayes almost peed on Linda McMahon, and somebody cut off Michael Hayes hair. Mike says he remembers Michael getting his hair cut off, but he didn’t think it was in 2002...he thought it was much earlier and Kerry Von Erich was there. Conrad says no, this was much later...and starts listing off all the things that happened on the flight. When Conrad gets to the part with Flair walking around naked, except for his robe... Mike says: “Oh yeah. NOW I remember.” Mike says he was sleeping during most of the flight. Mike says he remembers that was the last ever Charter Plane WWE booked where booze was served. Mike says that he had a few drinks and went to sleep, and when he woke up he couldn’t believe all the stories he heard about what had happened while he was sleeping. Mike says that based on everything else that was going on during that flight, he was relieved that nobody shaved his head or eyebrows while he was sleeping. Conrad asks why Mike thought Kerry Von Erich was involved. Mike says he used to travel with Kerry when he was in the WWF, and Kerry was a big fan of cutting people’s hair while they were sleeping...but Mike was thinking of a different incident. Conrad says that he has been told The Nasty Boys used to be famous for shaving people’s eyebrows while they were sleeping. Conrad says that on the package for the 1-2-3 Kid WWF action figure, Sean Waltman has no eyebrows because Brian Knobbs shaved them the night before the photo shoot. Conrad says that Brian Knobbs told him that he also liked to shave just one of his victim's eyebrows, and make them decide if he wanted to shave the other or walk around with one eyebrow. Brian Knobbs eventually shaved his own eyebrows off, because he was so afraid of retaliation. Mike says all those stories are absolutely true. Mike says that somebody once shaved one of his eyebrows off, and Bret Hart used a magic marker and tried to help him by drawing another eyebrow, because he was an artist. But Bret couldn’t get it to look right, so Mike ended up shaving both off. Mike thinks it was Davey Boy Smith who got him. Conrad says this has been the best episode of Mike Chioda’s Mailbag that they have done yet. Conrad says he and Mike will have to talk when they go off the air to decide if Mike wants Conrad to edit any of the things they have talked about out of the show, due to their controversial nature. Conrad thanks Mike for his honesty during these interviews,and says that he loves the fact that there is no filter and “no bullshit” from Mike on these shows. Mike says he is the one who should thank Conrad for the opportunity to share these stories and trust him...there are plenty more to come. Mike hypes his shirts at Pro Wrestling Tees...and we are out of time... ~End of Interview~

The "Eric Fires Back" series seems to be getting a lot of votes, but I could use a bit of a break from listening to Bischoff for a while. Plus, those "Fires Back" shows are going to be a bitch to transcribe because I'll have to recap both the Shoot Interview clips and then Eric's rebuttal. I will definitely do the first episode, but I'm going to put that on hold. Based on the reaction in this thread, I think next up I will tackle either an episode of Mailbag with Mike Chioda, or the Herd Interview.

In my 38 years as a Pro Wrestling fan, I've seen a fair amount of live shows...but sad to say there are a precious few that really stand out in my mind. That can mostly be attributed to the fact that from around 1984-1990, the WWF pretty much had a total stranglehold on the live wrestling scene where I live. The promoter was Jack Tunney (the kayfabe "President" of the WWF) and he was pretty notorious for going to great lengths to keep any other promotions off Toronto television and especially out of any of the major venues. So we got pretty much all WWF, all the time. The WWF ran house shows every three weeks at Maple Leaf Gardens from around 84-89 or so. I went to the majority of those shows, but sadly not many of the matches really stand out in my mind after all this time. That's pretty sad, when you think about it...but looking back most of those 80's WWF house shows were total crap. There was of course the record setting "Big Event" at the Canadian National Exhibition in 1986, where Hulk Hogan fought Paul Orndorff. They managed to get 74,000 fans at that event...people really wanted to see Hogan get revenge on "Mr. Wonderful" after Orndorff turned on him. But that is not the match I remember best from that show. Here are my Top 10 picks. Randy Savage vs. Tito Santana (Toronto, Maple Leaf Gardens - 06/15/86) This was for Savage's IC Title, after he had screwed Santana out of the belt by using a foreign object at the Boston Garden. I was "smart" at this point, and knew the title wasn't going to change hands at a non-televised house show. Also, I went into this match being pretty lukewarm on Tito Santana. I didn't hate him, but I certainly wasn't a fan. The heat for this match was so insane that I actually got caught up and thought for a moment Santana might win his title back. This is the match that totally won me over as a Tito Santana fan. I got to see Savage/Steamboat live at one point as well...but for some reason I found the heat and crowd emotion stronger for this match. At least that's how I remember it. The British Bulldogs vs. The Hart Foundation (Toronto, Maple Leaf Gardens - 06/15/86) These two teams fought each other a million times, but this was pretty early in their run. This was before Dynamite Kid's injury so the Bulldogs were both at 100% and I still remember being blown away by their athleticism. Ricky Steamboat vs. Jake "The Snake" Roberts ("The Big Event" Toronto, Canadian National Exhibition - 08/28/86) The SPCA wouldn't let Jake bring his snake to the ring for this match. To be honest, this match is the only one I have a vivid memory of from this show. I remember Hogan vs. Orndorff, but I liked this match more. Aside from the massive crowd, the only other major memory I have is seeing Andre The Giant (excuse me..."Giant Machine") up close. I was on the aisle and when he walked right past me I couldn't believe how big he was in person. The Southern Boys vs. The Midnight Express (WCW House Show, Toronto, 06/27/90) This was the first time WCW had run a show in Toronto since Jim Crockett used to run Maple Leaf Gardens in the early 80's. Even though WCW had no TV coverage in Toronto (I found out about this show from an ad in the newspaper) they managed to draw 4000 fans to the CNE Coliseum (which in those days was pretty much a glorified livestock arena. It has since been renovated and is now the arena WWE runs, but back then it was a total dump. But that's the only arena WCW could get into...the WWF sure as hell wasn't going to let them into Maple Leaf Gardens.) I think if I was to see this match now, I'd think it was nothing special but at least I can say I got to see Cornette and The Midnight Express once. Lex Luger vs. Ric Flair (WCW House Show, Toronto, 06/27/90) This was a good match, which Luger won with the Torture Rack. The fans went crazy. Then they announced that the World Heavyweight Championship hadn't actually been on the line...because the show was held in Canada?! Total "Dusty finish" (even though I don't think he was booking at that time.) But hell, just like with the match listed above...I got to see Ric Fair in his prime, live. For a fan in Toronto, that was pretty much an impossibility since Toronto was WWF exclusive. This show took place just a couple of months after Wrestlemania 6 had sold out the Skydome...and poor WCW only drew 4000 fans in a really crappy arena. RVD vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (RVD wins the TV Title - ECW TV Taping, Buffalo New York - 04/04/98) Me and my buddy used to drive down to Buffalo when ECW was in town because they didn't run Toronto at that time, and didn't have TV up here. I'm pretty sure this was the first ECW show I ever went to live. Noteworthy because RVD won the TV Title here, and went on to hold it for ages. Sabu vs. Terry Funk (Independent Show, Toronto 6/6/99) Once again, this match wasn't anything special...but it was Terry Funk, up close. This was held in a Strip Joint and there couldn't have been more than a couple of hundred fans. This was the last time Terry Funk ever wrestled in Toronto. The highlight of this match was Sabu doing that spot where he balances on the top rope and dives into the crowd, because my friends and I had to flee in terror because he would have almost landed on top of us. Sabu vs. 2 Cold Scorpio - Ladder Match (Independent Show at Medieval Times in Toronto, Summer of 99) Don't remember the date of this show, I just remember it would have been the summer of 1999. A local Independent Promotion called the "CWA" used to run shows at the Medieval Times on a fairly regular basis here in Toronto. I always used to go, and I got to see some big names in a small venue. I mainly remember this show because (as always) Sabu almost killed himself in front of a crowd that couldn't have been more than 1,500 people. Masato Tanaka vs. Mike Awesome (ECW November to Remember 99, Buffalo - 11/07/99) I loved N2R99. There were a bunch of great matches on this show. A highlight was when New Jack and Balls and Axl fought "Da Baldies." New Jack smashed one of the guys over the head with a computer keyboard, and all the keys went flying in the air and landed on my friends and I. But of all the matches on that show, Tanaka vs. Awesome was the best. Those two guys always used to kill each other, every time they fought. Kevin Steen vs. Nigel McGuinness (ROH "Northern Navigation" - 07/25/08) This was my first ROH show. This reminded me of the Santana/Savage match, because I went into it not being a big Kevin Steen fan, but I actually got caught up in it and found myself cheering for him to win the ROH Championship. This was a really good match. Hiroshi Tanahashi and Jushin Thunder Liger vs. Jado and Shinsuke Nakamura (ROH "Global Wars" 05/10/14) To be honest, this match was nothing to write home about...but I got to see Tanahashi, Nakamura and especially Liger live, dammit. Not many Canadian fans can say that. Plus I got a high five from Jushin Thunder Liger!

Instead of Greatest Wrestler Ever, we should do a poll of Greatest Big Man Ever. I assume Vader would win, but I think Bam Bam Bigelow would deserve some votes too.

I have to admit I was pretty shocked when I heard Arn say that Kane was his pick for the best big man of all time. But after thinking about it, there is a long history of Pro Wrestlers who when asked, seem to have a totally different set of criteria to determine what makes somebody "great." I think guys that worked with Kane thought he was a great big man because he never hurt anybody and was really easy to work with both backstage and in the ring. Whereas with Vader, it sounds like he was moody and temperamental, never washed his gear and smelled really bad (JR recently said the office had to officially order to him to wash his gear because he was making guys sick) he was impossible to move around, and oh yeah...if you worked with him you were pretty much guaranteed to get smacked around. No wonder actual Pro Wrestlers like Kane better. He might not have been as much fun to watch, but from a worker's perspective at least Kane didn't stink and knock you loopy on a regular basis.

I really want to see that documentary at some point. Once I do, I might actually recap that interview just for @C.S.

Ad Free Shows Exclusive edition of "Arn": March 29, 2020 "Vader Goes Down" - Conrad welcomes us to this special exclusive edition of "Arn." - Conrad says he had asked Arn what notorious or infamous events that had developed any kind of urban legend that Arn had actually witnessed during his Pro Wrestling career. Arn told Conrad that he had been front row center for the legendary incident that took place in WCW between Paul Orndorff and Vader during the fall of 1995. - Conrad notes that this took place before Vader went to the WWF, and while Arn Anderson was still an active Pro Wrestler and not yet an “agent” working backstage. - Arn corrects Conrad that he was working as an agent at the time, even though he was still active as a Pro Wrestler. - Arn puts Paul Orndorff over in a big way. Arn says Orndorff was one of those guys who basically had it all. He had an outstanding physique but he could also work and cut a great promo. On top of that, Paul Orndorff had a legitimate athletic background and a reputation as a very tough man. Arn says that as a result of all those things combined, Paul Orndorff was very highly respected by all the guys in the Locker Room in WCW. - Conrad points out that Paul Orndorff was one of the top names in the Pro Wrestling industry in the mid 80’s when the “Hulkamania” boom began. Of course, Orndorff was in the Main Event of the very first Wrestlemania, but he also was involved in a lot of iconic moments during the Rock & Wrestling era. Orndorff had a very successful run against Hulk Hogan in 1986 (culminating in their match in Toronto that while only basically a house show, drew what was then an outdoor attendance record of 74,000 fans. And you know who was there in the 11th row? That’s right. ME.) - Conrad states that Paul Orndorff’s time as a legitimate Main Event level wrestler was brought to an end by a serious injury in one of his arms. Orndorff’s arm had massive nerve damage, so much so that it began to atrophy and he could barely use his one arm. - Conrad says Paul Orndorff was still wrestling despite his debilitating injury but by this point in Orndorff’s career, he had slowed down and like Arn, was working as an agent backstage in WCW and only wrestling sporadically. - Arn says that being an “agent” in Pro Wrestling is a very difficult job. Arn says that the other Pro Wrestlers have to respect the agents and for that to happen, the agent has to have experience and know what they’re talking about. - Arn says during the course of a work day backstage, the agents are relied on to keep things on schedule. Arn says that when a TV taping is going on it is very difficult to keep everything on track and timing is essential. Arn says the agents have to be respected, because the wrestlers have to listen to them about when promos need to be cut, time cues, etc. - Arn says most active Pro Wrestlers like to get to the building as late as possible and are bad for procrastinating backstage, and somebody needs to push them to get dressed and get ready on time, and do what they have to do. If the agent is not respected, the wrestlers won’t listen to them. - Arn says that a good agent has to know how to handle themselves and be professional. - Arn talks about the problem agents have, with one foot in the Office and the other foot in the Locker Room. Arn says that somebody who works for the Office will never be viewed as “one of the boys” but when you do the job of an agent...you have to do both. Especially if you’re still an active wrestler. - Arn says that Paul Orndorff was one of the very rare guys who had the trust of the office, but the respect of the boys in the Locker Room at the same time. - Conrad asks who was in charge of WCW at this time? - Arn says that Eric Bischoff was in charge at this point, but this was when WCW was still a very relaxed atmosphere and before “things started getting political.” Arn says at the time of this incident, the Locker Room in WCW was actually pretty harmonious and everybody got along, for the most part. - Arn says that at this point, WCW was a great place to work...you could go to work, have fun, do your job and go home. - Arn says WCW was hardly a high pressure atmosphere at this point. Nitro had not even debuted yet. - Conrad asks about Vader, what kind of reputation did he have? - Arn says “working with Leon was...well, you had to fight him, but in a working way.” - Arn says that Vader did have a reputation of being very “snug” in the ring and that when you worked with him, it could be rough. - Arn says that at that time in Pro Wrestling, there were a few cardinal rules. You never dump your opponent on their head, you do your best to avoid marking up their face or knocking out teeth, you always make sure that they land flat on their back, and you never hit them in the balls. As hard as Vader would hit his opponents, he generally followed those rules. - Arn says he doesn’t think Vader was one of those guys who was “ornery” and would “potato” guys whether they liked it or not. Arn says that Vader just got really “amped up” and would hit hard. - Arn says he worked with Vader many times, and says he got knocked around a lot, but Vader never actually hurt him. - Arn says he will only treat people they way they treated him, and he will only talk about people based on how they dealt with him, not based on rumors about how they have treated other people, and based on that he really didn’t have any problems with Vader. - Arn admits Vader’s punches did “waffle” him a few times. - Arn says that the day of the this incident, Vader showed up late. - Arn says that as soon as Vader showed up, Paul Orndorff went up to him and asked him to get his gear on right away because he was needed for a shot. - Arn saw nothing wrong with the way Orndorff approached Vader, Arn says Orndorff was very businesslike. - Arn says after Orndorff left the Locker Room, Vader sat down and started getting his gear out of his bag. - Arn says he doesn’t know why, but Vader seemed to be taking quite a long time to get his gear together, get it on and get out in front of the camera like he had been asked. - Conrad says that this fight happened on August 21, 1995 at the tapings for WCW Saturday Night that was scheduled to air on September 2, 1995. The tapings were being held at Center Stage in Atlanta. - At this point, Vader was scheduled to be on Hulk Hogan’s team in War Games, and the angle Vader was needed for was a segment on WCW Saturday Night where Kevin Sullivan (with The Giant) cut a promo saying that Hulk Hogan could never trust Vader, which would bring Vader out. - Conrad says that Dave Meltzer reported on the fight between Orndorff and Vader in the Observer, and said that as a result of the fight, Bischoff started negotiating with Lex Luger to return to WCW to appear on the debut episode of Monday Nitro on September 4. This would then lead to a match between Luger and Hulk Hogan on September 11, 1995. Meltzer claims this spot had originally been intended for Vader. - Conrad says that at the time of the fight, Vader was in the middle of negotiating a new contract with Eric Bischoff, rumored to be for $750,000 a year for three years. - Arn says that at the time of the fight, nobody knew about that. - Conrad says the rumor had been that Vader was even scheduled to defeat Hogan for the World Heavyweight Championship on September 11, leading to a couple of big Pay Per View rematches between Hogan and Vader. - Conrad says Vader was pretty much in a prime spot in WCW at this point. - Arn wonders if the negotiations were on Vader’s mind at the time of the fight. - Anyhow, getting back to the actual fight... - Arn says Vader was pretty much taking his time getting ready, so Paul Orndorff returned to the Locker Room. - Arn claims that Paul Orndorff came into the room, looked at Vader and looked at his watch. Arn claims that Orndorff said: “Leon, come on man. Jesus Christ, let’s go! Get off your fat ass, let’s get out there and get this done!” Arn says that is pretty much word-for-word what Orndorff said. - Arn said he could see Paul Orndorff was getting very irritated, so as a fellow agent he went to talk to Orndorff and he was going to volunteer to try and talk to Vader and convince him to hurry up. - Arn says that as soon as Arn got up to talk to Orndorff, he noticed Vader looked really angry that Orndorff had chastised him in front of everybody in the Locker Room. Arn says that Vader obviously felt disrespected. - Arn and Paul Orndorff had moved into the hallway at this point. Arn says Vader came charging out of the Locker Room and started screaming at Orndorff. - Arn says he was literally in between the two men, because he was standing in the hall talking to Orndorff and Arn had his back to the Locker Room door. Arn says that when Vader came out of the Locker Room, he was right behind Arn, with Arn positioned in the middle. - Arn says that he felt like a boxing referee standing between two fighters. - Arn says that as soon as Vader started shouting at Orndorff, Orndorff started shouting right back at him. - Arn says that at this point, Vader slapped Paul Orndorff in the side of the head with an open hand, very hard. Arn says the shot to Orndorff “really pickled him.” - Arn says the hallways backstage at Center Stage are very narrow and so when Vader slapped Orndorff, and sent him back into the wall and really “knocked the piss out of Paul.” - Arn says that after Paul fell to the ground, Vader stood over top of him and continued shouting at him. - Arn says “Leon was going into Vader mode and was basically cutting a promo on him.” - Arn says he intervened and tried to get Vader to back off. - Arn says Paul Orndorff popped back up and threw a punch at Vader that was so fast, it was a blur. - Arn says the environment in the hallway was so cramped, that when Orndorff threw the punch his arm literally went over Arn’s shoulder. - Arn says Orndorff hit Vader right in the chin, with one punch. - Arn says Vader’s reaction looked like a worked spot during a match...Vader slumped to his knees, and fell flat on his face. - Arn says at that point, he went: “Hmmm. We need to give this some thought, here.” - Conrad bursts out laughing at this statement. - Arn says that if Paul had been wearing street clothes and cowboy boots, then “we may have witnessed a death, right there. A murder.” - Arn says there might have been a problem with nerve damage in Orndorff’s arm...but “there wasn’t nothing wrong with his legs, because he started stomping Leon like a crazy man...right to his head. The only thing that saved Leon’s life that night was that Paul was wearing flip-flops.” - Arn says even with bare feet, Orndorff managed to stomp Vader 6-8 times. - Arn says that at that point, he could tell Paul Orndorff had totally lost it, so he pulled Orndorff off Vader and convinced him to go down the hall. - Arn says Haku was there, and helped get Orndorff away from the scene. - Arn says that he helped Vader back into the Locker Room, and Vader looked like hell. He was bleeding and his eyes were already starting to swell shut. Arn says: “Leon looked like he’d been dropped off a 10 story building and landed right on his face.” - Arn says that as soon as Vader regained his senses, he got angry again. - Arn says that Haku had managed to calm Paul Orndorff down, and Orndorff had actually gone into the office next to the Locker Room and was changing into his gear because he was scheduled to wrestle that night. - Arn says Vader charged and busted into the office. - Arn says that Orndorff and Vader basically “locked up” and started fighting again, thrashing around. - Arn says: “Thank God, Haku was there. He was the only man in the world who could have broken up that fight.” - Arn says Haku actually physically separated the two men. - Arn says he talked Paul Orndorff into just leaving the building before things escalated any worse, and Orndorff listened to him. - Arn says both men were asked to leave the building. - Arn says that when TV was over, he went to the Marriot hotel and when he walked in he saw Vader sitting at the bar. Arn says he didn’t want to do it, but the human thing to do was to go and check on Vader and see if he was okay and if he could do anything for him. - Arn said that there was an air of celebration in the WCW Locker Room after what happened to Vader. Arn says the enhancement talent were particularly happy, because Vader was known for being extremely rough with enhancement talent, taking liberties and hurting them. - Arn says the mentality of the boys was: “A bully got his today.” Arn says people wanted to make Paul Orndorff President. - Arn says that he decided to go up to talk to Vader in the bar, and that Vader looked like he’d been through a meat grinder. - Arn says Vader was crying and was remorseful about the incident. - Arn says he thinks it was starting to dawn on Vader that he was in the middle of negotiating a new contract and had been poised to fight Hulk Hogan on a brand new network TV show, and now he had basically blown millions of dollars in “one fell swoop.” - Arn says that was the last time he ever saw Vader in WCW. - Conrad says that he has discussed this situation with Eric Bischoff on an episode of 83 Weeks. (Episode #24: “Vader in WCW”) - Conrad says that Eric Bischoff had been having a lot of trouble with Vader at the time. - Conrad says Eric Bischoff claims that Vader was really dragging out his contract negotiations. - Conrad says at the same time, Eric Bischoff had needed Vader to attend a photo shoot to promote some merchandise. Conrad says Eric had signed a contract for this promotion, but for some reason Vader kept refusing to attend the photo shoot, and at the time of the fight, Eric Bischoff had told Vader if he did not attend the photo shoot, he would be fired. - Conrad says that Vader had finally done the photo shoot, the morning of the TV taping. Conrad says that it was because of the photo shoot that Vader was four hours late in arriving to the TV taping. Conrad says the problem is, Vader never called and told anybody he was going to be late. - Conrad says that Eric Bischoff told Vader he was going to be suspended for six months for the fight, without pay. Conrad says that would have amounted to a $400,000 fine. - Vader refused to accept the suspension, so Eric Bischoff fired him. - Conrad says that Turner corporate ended up getting involved with the legal process of firing Vader. - Arn says that is a big difference from when Bill Watts had been in charge. Arn says that if Watts had been in charge, his only question would have been “who won the fight?” - Arn says that the whole fight could have been avoided if Vader had called and said he was going to be late because he was finally doing the photo shoot that Eric Bischoff wanted him to do. That way, Paul Orndorff wouldn’t have been as upset that Vader was late. - It is also possible that Vader showed up to Center Stage in a bad mood because Eric Bischoff had told him that if he didn’t stop procrastinating and go to the photo shoot, he would be fired. - Arn says if somebody would have asked him, he would have met Vader at the door and helped facilitate the whole process. - Arn says WCW was a great place to work at this time, and that there was no need for this to happen. - Arn says that this is what happens when you have “two guys with balls as big as Egypt who refuse to back down.” - Conrad says that the legal and official reason Vader was fired was because he was unable to work due to a shoulder injury suffered during his cage match with Hulk Hogan at Bash at the Beach 1995. (This was the same shoulder injury which caused Vader to miss months in the WWF after his official appearance.) - Conrad says Dave Meltzer speculated that the fight with Paul Orndorff was not mentioned in Vader’s termination notice for liability reasons, since Orndorff had also been at fault. - Conrad says that Dave Meltzer reported that Paul Orndorff was disciplined for unprofessional conduct, but he was not fired. - Conrad asks why Paul Orndorff was not fired too? - Arn said that he and Leon White had never had a cross word...but he had to admit that he had witnessed Vader throw his weight around and bully a lot of people behind the scenes. (Sidenote: Eric Bischoff confirmed this in the aforementioned episode of 83 Weeks dedicated to Vader. Bischoff says that his biggest issue with Vader is that Vader treated the backstage production stuff and employees very poorly and was constantly bullying people and treating them badly.) - Arn says he has always hated Locker Room fights, because afterwards the Locker Room ends up being split, and everybody takes a side. Arn says this is the only Locker Room fight he can remember in his career where everybody took one side. Everybody supported Paul Orndorff it was universal that everybody thought Vader got what he had coming to him. Arn speculates that might be why Orndorff was not fired...because it would have been a very unpopular decision and upset the entire Locker Room. - Arn said this fight made Paul Orndorff into a cult hero in the Locker Room. Arn says that Paul Orndorff was already very widely respected by all the other Pro Wrestlers, but this just cemented it. - Arn reiterates that a lot of the enhancement talent loved Paul Orndorff even more after this fight, because it was like he was standing up for them. Paul Orndorff had a very good reputation with the enhancement talent, as he treated them as equals, never acted like he was better than them, and whenever one of them put him over he would always make a point to go and thank them after the match. Vader was conversely known for taking liberties with enhancement talent, and treating them like they were nothing backstage. - Conrad says the legend of this fight seems to grow every year. - Conrad says it is remarkable that a man with only one good arm, wearing shower shoes, was able to knock out the most brutal 400 pound man, the toughest big man in the industry. - Arn says not a lot of people know this, but Arn’s own career ending injury was very similar to Paul Orndorff’s injury. Arn says Orndorff’s injury was to his left arm, and that made things extra difficult because Orndorff was left handed, and he could barely use his left arm. - Arn says that unbelievably, the knockout punch that Paul Orndorff threw at Vader was with his injured and diminished left arm. - Arn says that Vader was so strong, that he had pretty much stunned Orndorff with the slap to the side of his head. Arn reiterates that he was literally standing in between the two men...he was right there. - Arn says that if Vader had followed up and continued to attack Orndorff, this fight might have had a different story. Arn says Paul Orndorff was in bad shape for a moment after Vader hit him, that’s why Orndorff went down...he was stunned by the slap from Vader. - Arn says he was just happy nobody was permanently injured as a result of this fight. - Arn says there are a lot of tough men in the Pro Wrestling business. Arn says it takes a tough man to put up with the travel, the exercise, getting banged around and beat up when you do your job and all the other demands. Arn says there are a lot of guys in the Locker Room could really hurt you. - Arn says the toughest guys in the Locker Room are guys like Haku, and The Barbarian...guys who are quiet and just sit there. Arn says the big, loud guys like Vader aren’t always the toughest, even though they might think they are. - Arn says a guy like The Barbarian could “kill you in a second...and then eat the evidence.” Conrad finds this comment highly amusing. - Conrad says that he has been told that Paul Orndorff bore no grudges against Vader after the fight, and did not want him to be fired. Conrad claims that Orndorff was fine with Vader coming back to work and was willing to work with him, and let bygones be bygones. - Arn says nobody wanted to see anybody lose their job. - Arn says he talked to Paul Orndorff about the situation several times. Arn says he and Paul were in a similar situation, both still wrestling but trying to work as agents at the same time. Arn says he knows Paul Orndorff did not carry a grudge and did not want Vader fired. - Arn says that when he first started out in the Pro Wrestling business two men took the time to give him advice and help him out. The first was Ted DiBiase, and the second was Paul Orndorff. - Arn says that when he was still learning the business, Orndorff pulled him aside and gave him advice about training, promos and how to work. Arn said he would always remember Paul Orndorff for that, because Orndorff had already signed a contract to go to the WWF and had no reason to be nice to a young wrestler. Arn says he has never forgotten the advice Paul Orndorff gave him, or the kindness he showed him. - Arn says Paul Orndorff actually felt bad after the fight. Orndorff knew Vader probably needed to be taught a lesson, but it bothered him that Vader lost his job. - Arn says Pro Wrestlers are a brotherhood and have to take care of each other and look after other. Arn says that’s how the business was at that point. - Conrad says it’s sad that Vader is no longer with us. Conrad says many people consider Vader the best “big man” in the history of Pro Wrestling. Conrad asks if Arn agrees. - Arn says that Vader should certainly be considered in the conversation...considering what you consider to be a “big man.” - Arn says his vote for the best big man of all time would be Kane. - Arn says Vader deserves credit for all the things he could do for a man of his size. Arn says there were a lot of positives about Vader. - Arn says there was another side of Vader not everybody saw, and that he could be “a big teddy bear.” - Arn says “God bless him, I’m sorry he’s no longer with us and I still think about him.” - Conrad says this is a weird story to go back and look at because the legend has kept growing as time has passed, but there was nobody better to tell this story because Arn was literally right there when it happened. ~End of Interview~

That's the whole reason I listened to it, for the Ric Flair stories. Thing is, she barely knows her father, sadly. She grew up in Minnesota with her Mom who Ric had already divorced when she was a kid. Ric was in to North Carolina, with his second wife (Beth) and Reid and Ashley (Charlotte.) Megan and David are his kids from his first marriage and they did not see him much at all growing up. (Not that his other kids saw him much either...but at least he "lived" with them.) It sounds like he basically felt guilty and spoiled the hell out of her when he did see her. She loves her Dad, but she very obviously resents him and she pretty much hates Professional Wrestling...so there's not a lot interesting in that podcast. You have to remember that most AFS subscribers are Conrad fanboys, so a lot of the questions end up being about what she and Conrad like to eat, and what shows they watch. Riveting stuff.

That's four votes already for the "Fires Back" series, so that is probably the one I'll tackle next. I would have figured that people had read enough about Eric Bischoff for now. I also would have thought the Jim Herd interview would have sparked a bit more interest. There has been a couple of votes for the "Vader Goes Down" episode and that one is pretty short, so I might do that first, just as a palate cleanser before listening to more Bischoff.

The Bischoff/Meltzer dynamic is so fractured at this point that it's comical. Meltzer could report that the sky is blue, and Bischoff would deny it, or claim that Meltzer has no first hand understanding of the sky, so his opinion doesn't mean anything. Conversely, Bischoff could come up with a cure for COVID-19, and Meltzer would give somebody else the credit, or make a bunch of snide comments claiming somebody else must have done it for him.

You were also at Joe vs. Kobashi, weren’t you?

This is a great idea for a thread. I'm a big fan of some of the discussion threads that have been popping up here at PWO lately, the Bret Hart/Bryan Danielson thread, the Greatest Rookie Thread, the Winning Streaks thread...and now this. For a while I was worried PWO was starting to die off, but it's great all these new interesting threads that are popping up now. I am going to have to give some serious thought to this question. I've been a fan for 37 years now and have seen a ton of live Pro Wrestling in that time, so I'll have to give it some thought before I answer. But I can tell you this...based on some of the responses I've seen in this thread so far, a lot of you guys have me beat.

We're coming up on three-and-a-half months since Conrad announced this new mystery podcast was coming...and still nothing. Not to mention on December 15, he said it would be announced in 10 days. Today is January 11 and still nothing. Conrad did an interview with Wrestling Inc. last week where he said again that he is about to debut two new podcasts, one exclusive to AFS and the other will be the infamous 6th addition to his Westwood One stable. I assume this will be the "big name" he's been teasing all this time...but as of today, still nothing. I have not listened to the ECW podcast. It is getting really good reviews from AFS subscribers. I have to be honest, I find it somewhat lame that Conrad has been saying for years that he's been dying to do an ECW podcast and tried to get Heyman and Styles...and the best he can come up with his Joel Gertner and The Blue Meanie? I may give it a listen at some point. All the feedback I've read talks about how impressed everybody is with Joel Gertner. He apparently comes across as extremely knowledgeable and insightful on this podcast. Who would have guessed? All that, plus he's the Quintessential Stud Muffin. Conrad did add a new Video Series to Ad Free Shows, and it's outstanding. It's not just audio, it's video. It's called "Title Chase" and it traces the history of Championship Title belts, shows details about how they were made, and then traces the lineage and shows where they ended up. The first episode was on the WCW US Championship, and I really enjoyed it. It was really professionally done and I found it interesting.

I don't hunt (I'm an animal rights guy...even though I've never been able to stick to a vegetarian or vegan diet, despite a couple of attempts) but I do fish. Even still, I have to be honest...the idea of living on a ranch in the middle of nowhere does appeal to me. Besides, I don't know if anybody ever saw that documentary WWE did on Bischoff: "Eric Bischoff - Sports Entertainment's Most Controversial Figure" but they filmed the interviews with him at his place in Wyoming. There is footage of him fishing, sitting on his porch, at a bonfire and sitting in his living room and I have to say...it looks like a pretty nice place and beautiful area. If I could afford to live somewhere like that, I would. Just probably not in the dead of winter.

Thanks very much for the positive feedback brothers.

Okay guys, now that I have recapped the saga of Eric Bischoff's departure from WWE, I am ready to consider tackling my next epic recap. I wanted to get some feedback from you guys, so I figured I'd make a list of what podcasts/interviews I have available and see if any particular one jumps out at you, that you'd like to see me tackle first. Of course, if there is something that is not on the list that you'd like to see me take a crack at, feel free to ask and I'll see what I can do. Here's what I have... "Vader goes down" Recapped on 01/11/21 Arn Anderson gives Conrad Thompson his eyewitness account of the infamous night he witnessed Paul Orndorff giver Vader a beating in the WCW locker room. This of course is the incident which resulted in Vader being released from WCW. "The Plane Ride From Hell" Recapped on 01/29/21 Jim Ross was the Vice President of Talent Relations and was a passenger on the infamous flight from England back to the United States on May 5, 2002 when...all hell broke loose. They still talk about this flight, 18 years later. If rumors are true, you had drinks getting spiked, Ric Flair showing off his "little Naitch", Curt Hennig and Brock Lesnar wrestling in the aisles, Goldust getting drunk and serenading his ex-wife over the PA system, flight attendants getting sexually harassed, and most infamously...Michael Hayes getting his mullet cut off. JR was there to witness the carnage, and had to deal with the fallout, which included more than one talent getting released. Eric Bischoff interviews David Arquette Recapped on 01/24/21 On the anniversary of David Arquette's "historic" WCW title win, he sits down with Eric Bischoff to discuss his win, his love of Pro Wrestling, "Ready to Rumble" and his upcoming documentary. "Four Star Summit" Dave Meltzer, Bryan Alverez, Wade Keller and Bruce Mitchell sit down together for a round table discussion on the business of Pro Wrestling journalism. I included this on the list because it is not available anywhere aside from Ad Free Shows and Fite TV, so it's exclusive content. If you guys vote to hear about this, I will recap it...but if you really love me, you won't make me listen to this. "The Monday Night Wars Debate" Eric Bischoff and Bruce Prichard debate The Monday Night Wars in front of a live audience. I haven't listened to this, but I'm betting my bullshit-meter will explode if I do. "War Games Revisited" JJ Dillon, Tully Blanchard, Lex Luger and Road Warrior Animal are interviewed regarding the original War Games. "The Death of WCW Debate" In front of a live audience, Eric Bischoff debates RD Reynolds regarding the accuracy of his book "The Death of WCW." (RD Reynolds was the co-author with Bryan Alverez, who despite being in attendance, declined the invitation to participate in this debate.) "Eric Fires Back" I love this series. Conrad plays clips from various Shoot Interviews of people talking shit about Eric Bischoff, and gives Bischoff the chance to respond. In this first episode, Conrad plays clips by Jim Cornette, Bret Hart and more. I don't know how well these would come across in transcript form, but they make for highly entertaining listening. "Eric Fires Back: Part Two" This show was supposed to be a "one off" but the fan response to the first show was so overwhelmingly popular that Conrad did a second episode. This show features more bitterness from Bret Hart and some truly delusional nonsense from Greg Gagne, which prompts a truly epic reaction from Eric Bischoff. Anybody who has ever heard or seen a Shoot Interview from either Greg Gagne or Mike Graham knows that for years both of them took credit for bringing Hulk Hogan into WCW. At one point, Greg Gagne actually took credit for the creation of the NWO as well. Now Bischoff gets a chance to tell his side...and he is not pulling any punches, trust me. Eric Bischoff meets Tony Khan Conrad Thompson introduces his two friends Eric and Tony to each other, and then basically rolls tape and records their conversation for about 90 minutes. It's a bit of a mutual admiration society, but it's not without interest. Jim Ross interviews Cody Rhodes Pretty much what the title says. This was recorded right after "All In" when Cody won the NWA World's Heavyweight Championship, and he sits down to talk to Jim Ross. "JR Fires Back" Based on the overwhelming popularity of the "Eric Fires Back" series, Conrad Thompson tries the same formula with Jim Ross...he plays clips from various Shoot Interviews over the years with Pro Wrestlers shitting on Jim Ross...and then gives JR a chance to respond. I didn't enjoy this at all. Firstly, many of the "talents" who are highlighted are pretty much lowlife scumbags like Road Dogg and Bryan Clarke, and they spend time mocking JR's facial paralysis which is just sad. You can tell by JR's reaction that it just upsets him and kind of depresses him, so he is very calm and diplomatic in most of his responses. The whole appeal of the "Eric Fires Back" series is that for the most part, Eric Bischoff gives ZERO fucks and he lets loose on most of the rebuttals in fashion that would rival Jim Cornette. When JR doesn't rise to the bait, the whole idea just doesn't work. Conrad later commented in one of his "Ask Conrad Anything" podcasts that he knew this episode was a major misfire. He assumed that because JR is so damn crabby all the time that this would make for entertaining listening, but it really doesn't. This podcast formula is awesome for Eric Bischoff and even Tony Schiavone but this didn't work out well at all. "Tony Fires Back" You have to say this for Conrad Thompson, when he finds a formula that works for him...he goes with it. As I said, the "Eric Fires Back" podcasts are some of the most popular shows he has ever done behind the paywall, so he wastes no time trying to duplicate the success...here he tries with Tony Schiavone. This goes much better than "JR Fires Back." The only problem is, there really aren't that many people who have anything bad to say about Tony, so there isn't as much to work with. Interesting sidenote: Conrad says that he absolutely cannot wait to do an episode of "Bruce Fires Back" where he plays all the shit people have said about Bruce Prichard over the years and lets Bruce respond...but Bruce is legally prohibited from doing something like that by WWE, as long as he is an executive there. Conrad has claimed that as soon as Bruce leaves WWE, that is one of the first things he wants to do. "Ask Megan Anything" This is a Q&A, where Ad Free Shows subscribers sent in questions for Conrad Thompson's wife to answer. As you would expect, 99% of the questions are about what it's like growing up with Ric Flair as a father, and what it's like being married to Conrad Thompson, aka: "The Podfather." "Ask Lori Anything" Lori Bischoff takes questions from Ad Free Shows members about what it's like being married to "Easy E." For those of you wondering...yes somebody actually gets up the nerve to ask her about posing for Playboy, the "Atlanta Gold Club" scandal back in 2001, and the subsequent rumors about her and Eric's relationship with Dallas and Kimberly Page. She expertly dodges the question about the Gold Club (probably because Eric admitted under oath that the allegations were true) but flatly denies the rumors about DDP and his wife. Then again, those allegations came from Scott Steiner...so I don't know how much stock I'd put into them anyhow. "Ask Erin Anything" This is a Q&A with fan submitted questions for Erin Lundy, Arn Anderson's wife. The main takeaway from this is that she sounds like pretty much the sweetest, nicest woman you'd ever want to meet...and he has little to no clue about anything about Arn's career. I'm not surprised, but I guess Arn was one of those guys who left his work at work. "Ask Lois Anything" Anybody who has ever listened to even a couple of episodes of Tony Schiavone's podcast knows that his wife Lois is...quite a character. She's almost become a legendary figure in Conrad's little podcast world. The woman is extremely opinionated, quite funny at times and has a sharp answer for just about anything. I chose not to listen to this because I don't really listen to Tony's podcast all that much (I'm not a big fan of the "watch along" format.) Also, Lois Schiavone is a full fledged, die hard MAGA hat wearing, Trump supporter. While I am not a left wing person at all, I don't much care to hear from Trump supporters, either. I find both the far left and the far right very obnoxious, and I tend to avoid both if at all possible. I don't know if Lois used this podcast as an excuse to start ranting about politics, but I figured it would be safer for me to avoid it. I don't want to hear Lois Schiavone praising Trump any more than I want to listen to Jim Cornette bash him. I find political talk tiresome, so this was a hard pass for me. But if anybody really wants to hear it...I'll recap it. "Eric Fires Back: Part Three" Conrad his back with his third instalment of this incredibly popular series. This is good shit, pal. "Behind The Paint With Sting" Tony Schiavone sits down with Sting and does an fairly interesting interview. Sting is a lot more engaging and entertaining during this interview than he has been in most other interviews I've seen him give, probably because it was before a live crowd and he's very comfortable talking to Tony. "Rob Van Dam and Jerry Lynn: An Extreme Rivalary" RVD and Mr. JL sit down in front of a live audience and discuss their famous rivalry in ECW. "Eric Fires Back: Part Four" This is pretty good, but unfortunately they are running out of clips of people bashing Bischoff for him to respond to. Conversations with Conrad featuring Jim Herd Recapped on 01/21/21 This is one of the exclusive interviews I alluded to when I first talked about starting this thread and doing more recaps. Conrad managed to land an exclusive interview with one of the more controversial figures in the entire history of WCW, former WCW President Jim Herd. This interview was somewhat noteworthy because Herd had pretty much vanished and not given an interview in over 20 years...and a couple of the things he said during this interview ended up making some of the Pro Wrestling "newz" sites. "I Quit" with Magnum TA and Tully Blanchard Tony Schiavone sits down with Magnum and Tully to discuss their feud and this classic match. Mailbag with Mike Chioda Starting at the beginning of November 2020, former WWE referee (of 30 years) and current AEW referee Mike Chioda started doing a weekly Q&A podcast, taking questions from Ad Free Shows subscribers. This show has been surprisingly entertaining, and has actually resulted in a few newsworthy revelations regarding payoffs and other backstage goings on in WWE. This has been way more interesting than I ever would have expected. If anybody actually wants me to recap some of this show, I would do it. Mailbag with Gerry Brisco Gerald Brisco alternates weeks on the "Mailbag" podcast, with Mike Chioda. I have to be honest, I don't much care for this and I rarely listen to it. Brisco is like a lot of old school guys who want to cash in on the whole podcast and Shoot Interview phenomenon. They want the money, but are pretty stingy with the details and are very careful about what the say. I swear some of these older guys are still trying to maintain "kayfabe." There's not a lot of substance here and this podcast hasn't ended up being anywhere near as popular as I think Conrad was hoping it would be. I think the original idea was that this was going to be huge and the Mike Chioda episodes were going to be filler basically, but it's ended up being the other way around and Chioda's is actually extremely popular. Having said that, Brisco's tribute to Pat Patterson was apparently quite good, as you'd expect. Ask Conrad Anything Ever since Ad Free Shows launched, Conrad has been doing regular "AMA" podcasts with the members. Surprisingly, these have ended up being some of my favorite shows to listen to. They are a mixed bag. Conrad knows his audience, so he is extremely transparent and is willing to discuss pretty much anything as long as he is legally able to do it. That's why I was able to post lengthy recaps about his relationship with Vince Russo and Jim Cornette...it was all based on information from this show. Conrad is totally up front about the technical and financial details of his podcast empire, and if you're interested in that kind of thing it can be a really intriguing listen. He also ends up giving a ton of financial and mortgage advice, which is less interesting to me...although his explanation of the housing collapse in 2008 was a damn entertaining episode. He also gets a lot of those ridiculous "who is on your Mount Rushmore" and fantasy booking questions too. And finally, just posted today as I write this... "Sharpshooter: Bret Hart in his own words" Bret Hart sits down for an in depth interview with Sean Mooney, in front of a live audience. * * * * * EDIT: In the interest of full disclosure, there are a couple of interviews with The Young Bucks on Ad Free Shows...but here's the thing. I would rather take a red hot flaming poker right in the ass than listen to a Young Bucks interview...never mind going to all the trouble of having to recap it, because that means you have to listen to it twice. So as much as I love PWO and as much love as I have for all my PWO Good Brothers? Me recapping a Young Bucks interview is never going to happen. I'd just as soon listen to Nickelback, dammit. Not gonna happen. * * * * * So there's the menu, so far. Like I said, I am also willing to consider requests to recap any other podcasts or interviews you might have seen elsewhere, but otherwise if anybody reading this wants to see a recap of anything listed above...please reply in this thread and let me know. Thanks!

For what it's worth, having listened to pretty much every episode of 83 Weeks and this episode in particular a few times, here is my take on what happened between Eric Bischoff and WWE... 1) I think it's pretty obvious that Bruce Prichard talked Vince McMahon into giving Eric Bischoff a job, because Prichard knew that Bischoff was in financial trouble and was on the verge on bankruptcy. If Bischoff wasn't getting his ass kicked financially at the time, I don't think he would have taken that job. 2) The whole deal started off on the wrong foot. Bischoff admits that WWE expected him to sell his home in Wyoming and move to Stamford and start work, right away. Bischoff admitted that WWE basically wasn't happy with the fact that he was hired in the middle of June but wasn't able to start work until the end of July. When you work for WWE, it sounds like it's the same as joining a damn cult. You're expected to sell your home and all your worldly possessions, and move as close to WWE Headquarters as you can possibly get and be available to them 24/7 with no exceptions. There is evidence to support this theory. I remember an interview I saw with J.J. Dillon years ago, where he talked about when Vince hired him to be the Head of Talent Relations in the WWF. Vince supposedly insisted that J.J. move to Stamford, even though Dillon could not afford to do it. (Dillon had some serious financial limitations because he was caring for a child with Special Needs.) Vince actually arranged a very expensive mortgage on a home in Stamford and pressured Dillon into taking it. And then, in an extra special example of Vince being a scumbag...McMahon turned around and cut Dillon's pay. If you don't believe that story, all you have to do is listen to others. Jim Cornette, Jim Ross and even Bruce Prichard have all given interviews where they talked about how the condition of their job was to move to Stamford and be available to Vince 24/7. And I don't think it's any coincidence that after Cornette insisted on moving back home to Louisville, he wasn't around too much longer...and the time he was still with WWE, he was out of political favor with Vince. JR insisted on moving back to Oklahoma, and that was pretty much the beginning of the end for him in WWE. And even Bruce, the first time he moved back to Houston and started working from home a lot of the time? He ended up getting fired in 2008. As soon as you show that you don't want to live in Stamford and be at Vince's beck-and-call 24/7, that's pretty much it for you. Bischoff made it clear that he was only willing to sign a two year deal, and he wanted to go back to Wyoming once he turned 65. So not only did he not drop everything and come running when he got hired, he had the audacity to say that he knew when he wanted to leave. 3) I think @NintendoLogic pretty much hit the nail on the head...Bischoff "being unable to adapt to the WWE system" is basically code for the fact that he wanted days off, and wasn't a big fan of getting calls in the middle of the night. Like I said in my recap, Bischoff admits he got "one of the those calls" in the middle of the night the day before he was fired, and then the next day when he went into work, they fired him. If you read between the lines, I think it's pretty obvious that the way he reacted to that call directly caused what happened the following day. That's why Bischoff doesn't (vocally) blame WWE. He knows that was what was required of him to work there, he just didn't want to do it. Bischoff admits that he took the job for the money, but another big part of it was so he and his wife could have easier access to New York and experience the fine dining and performing arts in the city, stuff they had no access to in Wyoming. As soon as he figured out that he would be working 14 hour days and getting calls in the middle of the night, I have no doubt he started copping an attitude over it and everybody could tell he wasn't happy. I've heard Prichard say it countless times...when you work for Vince you're not allowed to care about anything other than WWE. You can't sneeze, you can't be sick, you work 14 hour days and take calls in the middle of the night. Eric said he was told, he must have his phone with him at all times and he must never turn it off. What normal person would be happy working under those conditions, especially after you ran a company of your own? I think a big part of this probably has to do with the fact that Bischoff used to run WCW and had everybody answering to him, and now he was answering to Vince because he had to, and that probably didn't sit well. And Bischoff himself admitted that the way WWE does things was "completely fucking alien to him." But I don't doubt that Eric Bischoff had a hard time taking orders in WWE because he was used to being the boss himself. 4) That's not even taking into account the idea that Eric Bischoff was never really supposed to succeed in this job anyhow, no matter what he did. Conrad Thompson made it clear during this interview that he thinks Eric Bischoff was only hired to placate the shareholders who were pissed about how much money and time Vince McMahon was devoting to the XFL. Conrad also said that he thinks Vince hired Bischoff to be a scapegoat in case things didn't go well with Fox...Vince could blame it on Bischoff. There is another interesting theory about this whole thing, that was never mentioned during this interview. Tony Schiavone was irate when Eric Bischoff got fired. He and Jim Ross have both publicly speculated that the only reason WWE hired Eric Bischoff and Paul Heyman was to keep them away from Tony Khan and AEW. Schiavone has talked openly about how in the years leading up to his signing with AEW, he himself was having serious financial problems. He was in so much trouble, he ended up taking a job at Starbucks...a fact that Britt Baker referenced in one of her promos during her heel turn. Schiavone also admits that he had called WWE several times pretty much begging for a job. He didn't want to be an announcer, he was just hoping to get on as a producer...hopefully with the WWE Network. Schiavone finally got a hold of Triple H one time, and Triple H said he'd call him back...but he never did. All of the sudden, rumors start to fly about Tony Khan starting AEW, and of course there is all sorts of wild speculation about who will end up getting hired. There are all sorts of names that get thrown around...Jim Cornette, Jim Ross, Paul Heyman, Tony Schiavone and Eric Bischoff. Schiavone says (and I believe him) that no sooner did the rumor start to go around that he was going to be hired by AEW and he started negotiations with them...when a miracle happened. All of the sudden WWE contacted him and offered him a job. This is the company that wouldn't even return his calls, but as soon as it looked like he was going to AEW, they wanted him. I have zero doubt that one of the main reasons Vince hired Eric Bischoff was to fuck with AEW. Furthermore, I honestly feel that Vince never intended to give Bischoff any real authority or for him to succeed. I know it sounds like a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory, but I think there is enough evidence to suggest that it is just like Vince McMahon to hire somebody to keep them away from the competition, and then fire them in disgrace, thereby devaluing them to any future employers. If AEW were to hire Eric Bischoff now in any capacity, you know the first reaction would be: "LOL he couldn't even make it in WWE for three months before he got fired for being clueless and lazy and spending all his time in catering." I think Eric Bischoff knew all that damn well going in, but he didn't care because he wanted the money. It wasn't during this interview, but I can tell you that in subsequent episodes of 83 Weeks, Eric Bischoff has alluded to the fact that he got one of those proverbial "golden parachutes" when WWE fired him. Like him or not, Eric Bischoff is not stupid. This guy was represented by CAA, the most powerful Entertainment lawyers in the industry. You can't tell me he didn't have it written into his contract that if WWE fired him before his two years was up, they were going to have to write him a big, fat cheque to go away. Eric Bischoff came off looking pretty bad in this whole mess, but in the end I am betting he was laughing all the way to the bank.

Reading that article, Bischoff might take some issue with the accuracy considering... 1) His "entire family" consisted of himself and his wife, because both his kids are grown adults and don't live with him anymore and... 2) He never lived in Oklahoma. He is right about Smackdown on Fox being totally Vince's project, and Bischoff confirmed that. But can anybody who has ever heard anything about Vince McMahon even be remotely surprised at that theory? I can't imagine anybody honestly believing that Vince McMahon of all people would take a back seat and hand over the responsibility of overseeing the biggest Pro Wrestling TV deal in the history of his company (and the entire industry) to the guy who literally tried to put him out of business.

He pretty much makes it sound like he never even got the chance to touch the ball, never mind drop it. He didn't know who was on his creative team heading into the first episode on Fox, but it didn't matter because it sounds like Vince booked it himself. Within two weeks, Bischoff was fired. From the sounds of the interview I recapped, Bischoff didn't even really have any interaction with Fox, and that's not why Vince hired him anyhow...if you are to believe Bischoff.

Bischoff has claimed that the reason the nWo started adding members like crazy (Michael Wallstreet, Ray Traylor, etc.) is because they were preparing to split off and "take over" Nitro. He also claims the main reason he signed Bret Hart was to be the #1 star on Thunder, and pretty much they were planning on doing what WWE ended up doing with Raw and Smackdown, having two separate brands which compete at PPV's several times a year. From what I understand, the idea got killed for two reasons. They kicked off the idea with the 12/22/97 episode of Nitro, when the nWo "took over" and spent most of the show destroying the sets and rebuilding them nWo style. The problem is, when the ratings came in apparently they were down 25% from the previous week, and Raw actually beat Nitro during the 10:00 pm hour. That supposedly made everybody nervous and caused them to rethink the idea. (Who would have guessed fans wouldn't want to watch a glorified home improvement project while the nWo cut endless promos?) Secondly, I guess TNT and TBS weren't crazy about the idea of certain talents being exclusive to the other channel, even though both channels were owned by Turner. If you believe the rumors, the original plans were for Bischoff to beat Zbyszko at Starrcade and for WCW to "lose" Nitro to the nWo, causing WCW to start their own show on Thursdays with Bret Hart as the #1 star, but once everybody saw the ratings, they pulled the plug on the whole idea. In my opinion, the nWo angle started to really go into the toilet way back then, when they stopped being an elite stable made up of former WWE stars and started adding guys who were...not quite as big.

Via Getty is the member of a large crime family. His older brothers Spa, Alpha and Dyno are especially brutal.

Yes, Bischoff has talked about that several times on his podcast. The plan was for Nitro to belong to the NWO and Thunder to belong to WCW.

Thanks guys, it is much appreciated. Recapping this interview took a lot longer than I thought it was, it was a real marathon compared to the other recaps I have written up. By the way, it is nice to meet you @Perfectly Straightedge, I don't think I've seen you here before and it's always nice to see new names at PWO.

Ad Free Shows Exclusive edition of 83 Weeks: March 28, 2020 "Eric Leaves WWE" Part Three: "You're FIRED!!!" - At this point in the interview, Conrad Thompson kind of takes over for a moment. - Conrad says that he wants to provide the proper context to what happened next, after Eric Bischoff returned to WWE. - Conrad says that Eric Bischoff was not only hired to be the Executive Director, but he was also hired right before Smackdown is set to change networks and debut on Fox on what is the biggest Pro Wrestling TV deal in history, from a financial standpoint. - Conrad says the magnitude of Pro Wrestling returning to network television, especially in Prime Time cannot be overstated. - Conrad says that Vince putting Smackdown into Eric’s hands must have been a PR move, because Vince was worried that the WWE shareholders were worried about Vince trying to “stretch himself too thin” by debuting Smackdown on Fox while overseeing the relaunch of the XFL at the exact same time. - Conrad pointed out that around this time, a significant number of WWE stockholders had actually filed lawsuits against WWE because they thought Vince McMahon was reallocating time and resources from WWE to the XFL. - Conrad thinks that Vince hired Eric and Paul Heyman and named them Executive Directors tried to placate the stockholders because of these lawsuits, because Vince could turn around and point out that both Eric and Paul Heyman had previously run their own Pro Wrestling companies, which would leave Vince free to run the XFL. - Conrad says that if you read the press release WWE put out about Eric Bischoff and Paul Heyman being hired to be Executive Directors, it gives a totally false impression of why the two men were actually hired. - Conrad says that he feels based on inside information he has heard, basically Vince hired Eric and Paul just to get the shareholders off his back and fight off the lawsuits, but Vince never really intended to give Eric or Heyman any actual control over Raw and Smackdown. - Conrad says that he feels Vince McMahon was setting Eric Bischoff up to be a scapegoat because he knew Fox had very high expectations going into Smackdown’s debut...and Vince probably knew they were not going to be able to deliver on what Fox had been promised by WWE. - Conrad points out that Fox invested a huge amount of money into Smackdown and were going to expect a big return, so he thinks Vince hired Eric Bischoff to protect himself from the wrath of Fox if he ended up being unable to meet expectations. - Conrad asks if Eric agrees? - Eric actually seems a bit miffed at this statement and says no, he doesn’t agree with that theory for a split second. - Eric says if that theory was true, then why does Paul Heyman still work as Executive Director for Raw? (Sidenote: Umm...) - Eric does agree that Fox had extremely high expectations. - Eric says the first episode of Smackdown on Fox drew around 4 Million viewers, but Eric says that was to be expected considering the “insane” amount of money WWE and Fox invested in heavily promoting the show. - Eric says that when any new show debuts on network TV, you can always expect a 24-30% drop in viewership between the first and second episode. Eric points out he has a long history working in television and that is just the way things work. - Eric says viewers will tune in to see the first episode of something because it is new, but it is natural that a significant amount of first time viewers will not like it, and will not come back. Eric says that’s just the “nature of the beast.” - Eric says if you do a good job, you will hold a portion of your audience and Smackdown did. - Eric pointed out that a lot of things happened on the debut episode that WWE was not going to be able to follow through with on a weekly basis...namely the appearance of The Rock. - Eric says that the debut episode of Smackdown was not “Eric Bischoff’s Smackdown.” Yes, technically he was the Executive Director and yes “theoretically” he was overseeing the creative team, but there is one creative filter in WWE and “we all know who that is.” - Eric says that entire show was basically written by Vince McMahon, and “he threw everything he had at it.” - Eric pointed out that after that, the next episode did around 2.5 Million viewers...and after that Eric was fired. - Eric says he was only with WWE for just under four months, and he has to be honest...he knew after the end of the second month that this job was not going to work out. - Eric says after he had been there for about 6 weeks, he came home for work one night in the middle of the night, and told his wife: “Start packing. I know how to get back to Wyoming, and this stay is going to be a lot shorter than I thought.” - Eric says that he didn’t come to that conclusion based on anything anybody said to him, or even how he was treated. - Eric says that he needs to reiterate that WWE treated him very fairly and he really likes a lot of the people there, but he could tell very early on that this was not a good fit and the relationship was not going to last. - Eric says that he understands now that there is absolutely no way he would ever go back to work for WWE again. Not just because he wouldn’t want to, but based on what happened it wouldn’t be in the cards. - Eric says he didn’t fit into the WWE corporate culture. - Eric says he does not believe Vince set him up to fail. - Eric says it didn’t work out because he was unable to adapt to the WWE corporate culture and their expectations and that is his fault, not Vince McMahon. - Eric points out that Vince McMahon made a major financial investment in bringing Eric Bischoff into WWE corporate, and he wouldn’t have invested all that money in him if he hadn’t wanted the relationship to work. - Eric says there was never a time that he needed or wanted anything to do his job, that WWE wouldn’t provide it. - Eric says he the WWE corporate environment was “completely fucking alien to me” and he was unable to find a way to work within that environment and be successful. Eric says he thought he’d be able to do it, but he couldn’t. - Eric says he was always able to adapt to corporate changes or expectations in the past, but this time he just couldn’t do it, when he had been sure he could. - Eric says that both he and Vince McMahon knew things were going badly, and that is why when Vince fired him, “I was more relieved than disappointed.” - Eric says that when Vince fired him, he told Vince that he was disappointed in himself for being unable to adapt to the WWE environment and meet or exceed Vince’s expectations. Eric says he failed Vince and WWE, not the other way around. - Eric says his getting fired was not WWE’s fault, and not Vince’s fault. It was his fault. - Conrad says that during Eric’s time with WWE, Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alverez were reporting in The Observer the entire time that Eric was back with WWE he didn’t actually do any work and spent all his time hanging out in catering. - Conrad asks if Eric paid any attention to the “industry trade sheets” accusing him of being lazy and basically doing nothing when he worked for WWE. - Eric gets very testy at this point, and says that he takes exception to Conrad considering The Observer an “industry trade sheet.” Eric says The Observer is nothing more than a dirt sheet, a gossip column, and that the Pro Wrestling business doesn’t have a real “trade sheet.” - Eric says that The Observer is more like The National Enquirer. - Eric says that he is not saying that people like Wade Keller, Jason Powell, Mike Johnson, Dave Scherer, and Ryan Satin don’t work hard...they do. Eric says all those guys work hard at providing credible, sourced stories. - Eric says he is aware that there were stories going around that Eric wasn’t doing anything when he worked for WWE, and that he spent all his time sitting around in catering “eating fucking donuts” and that those stories are just not true. - Eric says that story about him having nothing to do and sitting around in catering is all attributable to Dave Meltzer, and reiterates that it’s not true. - Eric says that unless you have been backstage at a live WWE TV broadcast, you really can’t understand the way things work. The writing team is assigned an office at the venue, which is usually a very small room with a table for 10-12 writers. There is not enough room to put your backpack or laptop down. - Eric says that Vince McMahon is assigned a private office at the venue, as are the producers (agents) and then of course there is the “Gorilla Position.” The only area backstage at a venue during a live WWE TV broadcast where you can sit at a table with any privacy is the catering area, because there are usually rows of tables and chairs. - Eric says he was never assigned his own office, which made things a bit “inconvenient and uncomfortable” so the only possible place he could sit down with his laptop or meet with anybody with any type of privacy was in catering. - Eric says: “Did I spend a lot of time in catering? Damn right I did. I was working. There was no place else for me to sit. But for Dave Meltzer to suggest I was just sitting there twiddling my thumbs or I was eating fucking donuts? That’s just Dave Meltzer being a cunt.” - Eric says Observer readers love to hear gossip like “Eric Bischoff isn’t doing any work he just sits in catering all day doing nothing” but that doesn’t make it true. - Eric knows why he was fired, and it has nothing to do with the amount of work he did, or him sitting in catering when he met with talent or writers. - Conrad told the story about how right after Eric was fired, Conrad had arranged to throw a huge party for Tony Schiavone's birthday. The party was a very big production with all sorts of industry names in attendance, and there were speeches...it was almost like a "celebrity roast." (Sidenote: If I'm not mistaken, I think this was the party where Jimmy Havoc punched out Excalibur, right in front of Tony Khan.) Since Eric had just been fired, he was able to show up unexpectedly. Everybody was a bit uncomfortable because they knew Eric had just been fired, and many had read all the stories about Eric in the Observer. Eric walked up to the microphone and said: "I'm just here for the catering." - Conrad says the first episode of Smackdown on Fox went great...Rupert Murdoch was in the front row, Tyson Fury was there and posed for selfie with Ric Flair and Eric...Conrad says things must have felt very positive coming off that show? - Eric says it was a great show, and he doesn’t know how it could have gone any better. - Eric confirms that everybody was very positive backstage after the show. - Eric says his daughter Montana works in Los Angles and so she came to the show and actually brought her boss. - Eric says that at the after-party, his daughter got to see Ashley (Charlotte Flair) for the first time since they were kids and it was a very happy reunion. Eric remembers that back when he worked for WCW and they taped TV at Disney studios, his daughter and Charlotte used to play together for hours, running around backstage at Disney. - Eric says it was very fun, and a great night. - Eric says that the selfie Conrad mentioned with himself and Flair and Tyson Fury was actually taken in Las Vegas the following week...right before he was fired. - Eric says when the ratings came in, he was surprised. Eric said he thought the ratings would have been higher and thought they would be around 5 Million viewers. - Conrad asks how Eric found out he was fired, and was he shocked? - Eric says he got “one of those late night phone calls” in the middle of the night on Monday October 14, 2019. - Eric says he went into WWE headquarters the next day and was called into a meeting. (Sidenote: If you read between the lines here, it sounds like Eric’s reaction to getting another call in the middle of the night may have resulted in what happened the next day...) - Eric says at this point, he has to be very careful because his Non-Disclosure Agreement specifies that he is not allowed to discuss the details of his termination, so he does not want to violate it. - Eric says he was informed he was fired, and the meeting was “very uncomfortable.” - Eric says he apologized to Vince and told him that he was disappointed that he wasn’t able to deliver what Vince expected of him, and to be the kind of executive that Vince was used to having work for him, or to be the kind of employee Vince needed. - Eric stresses that this was not the kind of firing where there is a lot of animosity or yelling and recriminations and then the employee gets escorted out of the building by security. - Eric repeats that the process more uncomfortable and sad than anything else. - Eric says he was actually asked if he wanted to go and say goodbye to everybody, and he took WWE up on that offer. - Eric said he went around and told everybody that he thought very highly of them and the company, and that he wished everybody and WWE itself all the best. - Eric says the whole process took about 45 minutes, and shortly thereafter one of the first people he called was Conrad. - Eric was home by 11:00 am. - Eric says he walked in the door, and his wife Lori was on the phone. Eric says she looked at him in shock, and when she got off the phone she asked him jokingly: “What are you doing home so early, did you get fired or something?” - Eric's reply was "Yep.” - Eric and Conrad both laughed quite a bit about this. - Eric said Lori was joking, then she realized that he really had been fired. - Eric says Lori was shocked at first, but then she said that she understood this had been coming, since Eric had pretty much warned her it might. - Eric says he touched base with Conrad again, and then spoke to Bruce Prichard. - Eric says he and his wife went out for lunch, and as always his wife was incredibly supportive and positive. Eric says Lori’s first question was: “Okay...so where do we go from here?” - Eric said he spent the next two days just “decompressing” and deciding what to do next. - Conrad asks, did WWE ever explain specifically why they were firing Eric? - Eric reiterates that he is prohibited from repeating the exact terminology in his termination documents and he is not going to do that, but he thinks he can explain it without violating his Non-Disclosure Agreement. However, Eric says he is not embarrassed to discuss this situation and he is not trying to avoid it. - Eric says this was not like the type of firing where there was one particular incident or big confrontation that resulted in his dismissal. - Eric says the best way to describe the reason he was given for being fired by WWE, is that WWE came to view their relationship with Eric Bischoff as “trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.” Eric says that there is nothing wrong with a round hole, and there is nothing wrong with a square peg...until you try and fit them together. - Eric says that he has a hard time understanding why he feels the need to keep saying the same thing over and over again, but once again he is compelled to repeat this...he is grateful to Vince McMahon and WWE for the opportunity. - Eric says if he has to sum up why he was fired, it is because of a lack of chemistry between himself and WWE, and that is all on him. - Eric says he is trying very hard to be clear that he accepts responsibility for the reason he was fired, and he knows some people might get a hold of this interview and try and twist his words or report things “just to get precious clicks” and make it sound like he is angry with WWE or blames them for firing him. - Eric says he has no problem admitting that he made a mistake going back to WWE. - Eric says he couldn’t work in the WWE system, and that is his fault. Eric says he couldn’t expect the WWE system to change to adapt to him, it was Eric’s responsibility to adjust to work within the WWE system, but he failed because he couldn’t do it. - Eric says that from the moment it was announced that he was going to work for WWE there was a lot of sniping and insults directed at him, mostly from Dave Meltzer, before Eric had even started work there. - Eric says he knows that Meltzer has “stooges” on the writing staff in WWE who report things back to Meltzer to be reported in “his shit sheet.” - Eric implies that there might have been some on the writing staff in WWE who weren’t happy that Eric Bischoff had been brought in from outside the company to supervise them, and those writers could get even or try and hurt Bischoff by leaking false stories to Dave Meltzer, and he would automatically print them. - Eric says WWE is aware that there are writers on the WWE writing staff who are leaking information to Dave Meltzer, because Meltzer has reported a few things which only could have come out of private meetings with the writers...nobody else knew the information. - Eric says he is used to having to deal with this type of situation over the past 30 years. When he was President of WCW there were a lot of talent and even executives who used to leak information to Dave Meltzer in order to try and advance their own particular agenda, regardless of the truth. - Eric says he feels very bad because Bruce Prichard stuck his neck out to help Eric, and even Vince went out on a limb hiring him...and Eric didn’t make it work. - Eric repeats that despite of the fact that he feels guilty that he let Bruce and Vince McMahon down, as soon as he was fired he felt “relieved.” - Conrad says he wants to ask a question that might offend Eric. Conrad says he thinks he and Eric are friends so hopefully he won’t be insulted and he’ll understand what Conrad means... - Conrad asks if Eric thinks his age has something to do with why he couldn’t succeed in WWE? Like when Eric took over WCW he was young and full of energy and ideas and was willing to try anything, whereas now he is almost 65 years old and more careful and cautious. - Eric gave this answer some thought, but he replied that no...he doesn’t think that is the case. - Eric says that he actually thinks he has more to offer the Pro Wrestling business now than he did 20 years ago, because he made a lot mistakes when he ran WCW that he has learned from. - Eric says he is capable of delivering much more than he actually did, especially when it comes to creative and storytelling. - Eric says unfortunately, he was never given the chance to apply what he has learned over the past 20-25 years. - Eric says this has nothing to do with him being older. - Eric repeated that WWE is basically a machine, and they have a system. Eric says it is a system which has obviously worked well for them, but when you go to work for WWE you are expected to adapt to work within that system. - Eric says that he discovered that the WWE system is “counter-intuitive to what inspires me” but that is his limitation. - Eric said he knew going into the job that he would be expected to adapt to working within that WWE system, and that is what Vince McMahon expected him to do. - Eric says he underestimated and failed to understand how hard working in WWE was going to be. - Eric takes a kind of weird diversion from the interview here, and talks about how his good friend Sonny Onoo recently had a heart attack and almost died, and how that made Eric reassess his life and what is important. - Eric says he has allowed himself to get into very poor physical condition, and that if Sonny could have a heart attack considering what great shape he is in, then Eric could too. Eric says that he very aware that he is 65 years old and “the clock is ticking.” - Eric says ever since he was fired by WWE he has been concentrating on getting into better physical condition and he has been working out like a madman. Eric says that he has been spending a lot of time on a treadmill, and when he exercises it stimulates his endorphins and give him a high...almost like the first time he tried cocaine. - Conrad bursts out laughing at this. - Eric admits he tried cocaine and that the first couple of times you take it, it feels amazing but then it is never as good, and you have to keep taking more and more and that is why it is such a dangerous drug. - Eric says that he spends a couple of hours a day on a treadmill, and he knows that after about an hour-and-a-half, the endorphins kick in. Eric says he loves that feeling, and it provides him with a clarity of thought and great creative ideas. - Eric says he loves the creative process, sitting in a room with good creative ideas and creative people, sharing different concepts and stories and coming up with something interesting. - Eric says that creative process is “fucking fun” but in WWE, that never happened for him. - Eric says that he has remained on good terms with Vince McMahon since he was fired. He says he and Vince have texted back and forth a few times, and spoken on the phone. - Eric says since he was fired he was even been back to work on projects for the WWE Network, like a Dennis Rodman special. Eric says he knows he will do more projects with WWE in the future. - Eric says he has to be honest and admit that being fired by WWE hurt him. - Eric says he hates when people use the term “brand” but in his case, the Eric Bischoff brand “took a hit.” - Eric says he will back working in some creative capacity somewhere, and his career is not finished. - Conrad asks if Eric is worried how this whole situation affected his legacy in the Pro Wrestling business? - Before Eric can answer, Conrad says that Eric gets credit for how he turned around WCW and helped create the nWo. Conrad says that when it was announced that Eric was going to work for WWE, the first reaction of a lot of people was to mock the work Eric did while he was in TNA, and that should probably be the topic of a future interview. - Conrad says that when Eric was fired so quickly be WWE, a lot of the Eric Bischoff haters took delight in that and basically “took a victory lap.” - Conrad says that bothered him because a lot of people seem to confuse Eric Bischoff with the character he played when he was on screen in WCW. Conrad says that Eric Bischoff is a human being, and a real guy. - Conrad asks if all that bothers Eric? - Eric says no, it doesn’t really bother him. Eric admits it aggravates him at times, but he doesn’t let it worry him. - Eric says he is not worried about what his legacy is going to be and he never has worried about that. - Eric says he knows he has had some great success in his life, but he also knows he has had some terrible failures and that is just part of working in the entertainment business. - Eric says that there are very few movie directors out there who have directed nothing but hit movies. There are no actors or actresses who have always starred in hit films and never appeared in a “flop.” There are no writers or producers who have had every project they have ever been involved in turn out to be a hit. - This is the business, it is what it is and he accepted it a long time ago. - Eric says when he gets criticized by people, it is by people who are on the “lower end of the food chain” and don’t actually contribute anything positive. - Eric says the only thing that bothers him is when people like Dave Meltzer report something that is blatantly and provably untrue, but for some reason his readers just automatically accept it and believe it. - Eric says that at one point, 40% of people polled in the United States thought you could get the Coronavirus from drinking Corona Beer...because they saw it on Facebook. Eric says Corona actually had to come out and make a statement that it wasn’t true...but somebody had said that it was, so some people believed it. - Eric says Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alverez are nothing more than “jock sniffers” who need stooges to give them their false information. - Conrad groaned loudly at this statement. - Eric says that with AEW, at least Meltzer and his cronies are getting access and inside information directly from the management, instead of relying on stooges like they did when WCW was around. - Conrad says this interview has been very interesting for him, and asks Eric for his final thoughts on his run in WWE. - Eric says he is glad he did it, and met a lot of people that he made friends with and is going to stay in touch with. - Eric says that after he was fired, one of the first people to reach out to him was Kevin Dunn, who doesn’t have the best reputation socially in the business. - Eric says he learned a lot more about himself, especially about what he is capable of and what he is and isn’t willing to do for money. - Eric says he is still pulling for WWE, and for AEW for that matter. - Eric says he has no hard feelings, and that he can see himself sitting down for a beer with Vince McMahon one day, and for Vince to say: “Goddamn pal...that was a bad idea.” - Eric says he is glad he tried. - Conrad says he is glad they did this interview, and that he hopes this is not the last we’ve seen of Eric Bischoff working in Pro Wrestling. - Eric says he thinks “that train has pretty much left the station...but you know what they say, never say never.” End of Interview

I just want to say that I am incredibly jealous that you got to see The Midnight Express with Jim Cornette vs. Barry Windham and Ronnie Garvin live. I was a fan during that era and went to live shows all the time, but because I live in Toronto, JCP never ran shows up here. All we got was WWF shows. By the time WCW starting running shows in Toronto, it was the early 90's, not the peak 85-89 era. So you got to see stuff like this...and I got Hulk Hogan vs. Killer Khan.