The Thread Killer

Agreed. Do you remember when The Sandman went to WCW in 1999? After he left WCW in October 99, he made a surprise return to ECW to save Tommy Dreamer from a beating from the Impact Players, in ECW arena. The crowd reaction was absolutely insane. I've heard Lance Storm say that was hands down the loudest crowd reaction he's ever heard or witnessed. The whole reason the crowd went so nuts is because the arena light went out, and Enter Sandman started playing. When they show that clip on the WWE Network, they have edited out the music, which totally kills the whole thing. Sometimes, the music is almost a big a part of the moment as the action.

Ad Free Shows Exclusive edition of 83 Weeks: March 28, 2020 "Eric Leaves WWE" Part Two: Executive Director of Smackdown - Conrad says that he understands Eric Bischoff does not (or likely cannot) discuss the financial terms of his return to WWE, but Conrad is curious regarding the other details of Eric’s new contract. Specifically, was he originally just hired to come in as an executive, or did he know coming in that he was hired for the task of being the new Executive Director of Smackdown? - Eric says Vince McMahon had made it very clear during their second meeting exactly what his job title, duties and responsibilities would be going in to his new position. - Conrad says the reason he asks is because he knows that job titles and labels really don’t seem to mean much to Eric. Conrad asks exactly what did Vince McMahon tell Eric his new job was going to be? - Eric said his title was Executive Director, and that was a brand new role that was being created when Smackdown debuted on Fox. Eric says his primary job responsibilities were two-fold. His main job was to be the supervisor of the Smackdown writing staff, and be the liaison between them and Vince McMahon. His other job would be to supervise marketing, branding, digital media and public relations for Smackdown as they moved to Fox. Eric says the only aspect of the Smackdown brand that he was not supposed to be supervising was Live Events. - Eric says that it was reported by the dirt sheets and most Pro Wrestling news websites that Eric Bischoff had been hired to be actively involved in the creative process for Smackdown, but that was never the case. Eric says Vince McMahon was very specific that he did not want Eric Bischoff coming up with stories or angles of his own...he was just supposed to oversee the creative team and report back to Vince McMahon. - Conrad asked why there was a gap in between the time Eric was hired and when he actually started work. Conrad asks (already knowing the answer, I assume) if the reason for the delay was due to family responsibilities. - Eric pointed out that he had certain events and responsibilities he was legally booked for, before he took the job with WWE. He basically said he couldn’t just drop everything and start work for WWE because he had obligations. Secondly, Eric pointed out that the process of closing your house up and moving all your stuff across the country takes some time. Eric said when he left, he thought he was leaving for a couple of years. - Eric admits that WWE did want him to start work pretty much right away, but due to his commitments he wasn’t able to start work until July 20, 2019. - Conrad asks about Eric’s new home, and if WWE arranged it? - Eric confirms that WWE owns several corporate apartments, and that WWE arranged all of that for him. Eric says the apartment was okay, but in the end “it was a corporate fucking apartment” and that going from a 5,000 square foot ranch house on 23 acres in Wyoming to a corporate apartment in Connecticut next to the University of Connecticut, in downtown Stamford was a big adjustment for he and his wife. - Eric says that before the move he thought he was capable of adapting to pretty much anything, but adjusting to life in Connecticut after living on his ranch in Wyoming was very tough for him, much harder than he had expected. Eric says it made him feel claustrophobic and uncomfortable. - Eric says when he began on July 20, 2019 he started work at 9:30 am and had to undergo orientation. - Eric says his apartment was only 10 minutes away from WWE Headquarters so the commute was easy. - Eric says for his first two weeks, all he did was attend meetings with the different WWE department heads and get familiar with the inner workings of WWE, and learning which department was responsible for what, and who answered to who. - Eric says his first 3-6 weeks in the job was nothing but meetings, he didn’t even have a meeting with the creative team until almost before he was fired. - Conrad asks if it was a major adjustment for Eric to go from working at home, for himself and being his own boss to having to put a suit on and go to endless meetings. - Eric said that Bruce Prichard had warned him specifically that he would have to attend so many meetings that he would end up being overwhelmed and feel he was “trying to drink water from a fire hose.” Eric says that he found that analogy hilarious and it ended up being absolutely true. - Eric says that (aside from not being sure that he even really wanted the job when he took it) this is where he made a major mistake that might have cost him this job. - Eric says that when he worked for Turner Broadcasting, Bill Shaw had complemented on him on his ability to work to the specifics of whoever he answered to, and adapt to changing job requirements. Eric says he has always prided himself on his ability to adapt, thrive and give his employers what they want. - Eric says going into the WWE he seriously overestimated his own ability to adjust to working for WWE and adapt to such a radical change of environment. - Eric pointed out that after WCW was sold to WWE, he had basically been his own boss for almost 20 years. Eric says that he had become “set in his ways” and used to his own way of doing things. - Eric says that he has come to realize, mostly due to self-reflection after getting fired by WWE, that he has really changed over the past 20 years since he was President of WCW. Eric says he radically underestimated his own ability to work within the corporate environment of WWE. - Eric says that more than anything, what he didn’t realize is that he doesn’t work well within a corporate environment anymore...he is too used to working on his own and not having to work within that type of culture. - Eric pointed out that, “make no mistake about it” in the end, WWE is a massive money making machine. - Eric says that even though he had competed against Vince McMahon in business, and even though he had worked for WWE as a talent, that he never really understood the magnitude of the corporate environment in WWE. Eric says becoming part of the WWE corporate culture was really overwhelming. - Eric says that part of the problem is that when he arrived in July 2019, they were planning on resetting the “brand split” and doing a draft to separate the rosters of Raw and Smackdown before Smackdown moved to Fox...but literally nobody in management except for Vince McMahon knew what that meant and how that was going to affect their jobs or responsibilities. - Eric says that the management team and everybody else was basically sitting on “pins and needles” waiting for the announcement of the draft results and how that would affect them personally. - Eric says that just prior to his arrival, there had been some major changes to the creative team on Smackdown and the writing team and talent were still having a hard time adjusting to those changes when he arrived. - Eric says there was a serious “lack of synchronicity” going on in WWE management when he arrived. He says it wasn’t quite total chaos...but it was close. Basically, Vince McMahon knew what he wanted and what he was planning on doing, but he rarely shared that information with anybody until the very last minute. - Eric said that he was kept so busy going to business meetings, he barely got to attend meetings of the creative team. Eric said he was still trying to get a feeling for who was on the creative team...but it didn’t really matter because he knew the team was going to split up once the draft happened. - Eric says that he knew that after the draft, both he and Paul Heyman knew that they were going to be assigned their own writing teams for their own respective shows, but Eric and Paul Heyman had no idea who those people were going to be, when it was going to happen, and they were given no input on the decision. Both Bischoff and Heyman had particular writers they wanted assigned to their respective teams, but nobody asked for their opinions or input. - Eric reiterates that he was not expected to influence the creative direction of Smackdown, but only to ask questions and then take the information back to Vince McMahon. - Eric says that the Smackdown writing staff consisted of about 10-12 writers and he was slowly to trying to get to know them all and their strengths and weakness...but as he said, some of that was pointless because he knew at some point before Smackdown debuted, the writing teams were going to be changed. - Eric said it was very hard for him to make an accurate assessment of the creative team because of the uncertainty regarding the draft. - Eric says that the whole situation was very challenging and frustrating. - Eric points out that although WWE had split their two brands previously, this situation was going to be totally different and maybe not everybody understands that. - Eric says the deal with Smackdown moving to Fox meant that each brand had to have their own separate team and different structure, because both brands were now answering to totally different networks. - Eric says Fox and USA had totally different relationships with WWE. WWE had a longstanding relationship with the USA network and both sides were familiar with each other. Fox had a totally different management structure and different expectations of WWE. - Eric says the relationship between WWE and Fox was going to be totally different from the relationship WWE had with the USA Network. - Eric says that Fox had an expectation that their relationship with WWE would just like the relationship between a Television Network and any other Television program, whereas the WWE/USA relationship was much more collaborative. - Eric says one of the major differences is that Fox was very insistent that Smackdown have their own dedicated management team and especially their own dedicated roster, and Fox did not want any of those people also working for the USA Network, and they especially did not want talent that was working for Fox showing up on any other networks. - Eric said that WWE was not used to that kind of relationship with a TV Network and WWE found it very challenging and it caused a lot of pressure. - Eric says one of the problems was that the majority of the writing staff in WWE lived in New York City and commuted to WWE headquarters in Stamford, Connecticut. The writers took the train to work from New York, and as a result most of them did not arrive for work until around 10:30 am. - Eric says that with very few exceptions, he would be working at WWE headquarters until 10:00 pm at the earliest. - Eric says that 2-3 days a week, he ended up getting home as late as 3:00 – 4:00 am. - Conrad sounds surprised at that. - Eric says that part of the job was actually not a problem for him, as he was used to putting in those kinds of hours. - Eric says for some reason, while he was working for WWE there was a narrative in the dirt sheets and Pro Wrestling online media that he was “lazy” but that was totally untrue. Eric says he put in extremely long hours when he was in WWE, and that is a provable fact. - Eric says he usually worked a 14-16 hour day. - Eric reiterates that the long hours didn’t bother him...what bothered him was the “downtime.” - Eric says that during his long days thete was far too much “dead time” when nothing was getting done. - Conrad asks why? - Eric is very hesitant at this point and is clearly trying to be diplomatic. After Conrad prods him, Eric says: “Let me put it this way...I wasn’t in charge of my own schedule.” - Eric says that he found working 14-16 hour days with endless meetings punctuated by long periods of time sitting around waiting for approval to work, was “sucking the life out of him.” - Eric says that conversely, Paul Heyman had no problem whatsoever working within the WWE corporate system, and that compared to Bischoff, Paul Heyman was “a fucking rock star.” - Eric says that in the 4 month period he worked for WWE he gained so much more respect for Paul Heyman. Eric says he really respects how Paul Heyman is able to work within the WWE system and not only endure it, and survive. Eric says Paul Heyman knows how to overcome the challenges of working within the WWE system. (Sidenote: Keep in mind...at the time of this interview, Paul Heyman had not yet been fired from his own Executive Director’s job with WWE.) - Eric reiterates how much respect he gained for Paul Heyman and his abilities, and one of his biggest regrets is that he didn’t get to work more with Heyman. - Eric says that he is also very disappointed that he never got the chance to work with Bruce Prichard, and that is one of the reasons he took the WWE job in the first place, to work with his friend. - Eric says at the same time that he was having all his challenges in WWE, Bruce was trying to sell his family home in Houston and move his family permanently to Connecticut, and also Bruce and members of his family were having major health problems. - Eric says that he met with Paul Heyman after his first meeting with Vince McMahon, before he had been offered the job after his second meeting. - Eric says Paul Heyman figured out pretty quick that Vince was planning on bringing Eric on board, and that Paul was very excited about it. - Eric says that once the Smackdown writing team was defined, right before the debut on Fox he finally knew who he was going to be working with. Eric says there wasn’t one person on that creative team that he didn’t like and didn’t want to work with. - Eric wants to make it clear that he got along great with everybody on the Smackdown creative team and he has nothing but respect for all of them. His relationship with the writing staff has nothing to do with the reason he was fired. Eric says he would never criticize such a group of “hardworking, dedicated and talented people.” - Eric says he has actually stayed in touch with a number of the Smackdown creative team since he left WWE. - Conrad asks how this whole situation affected Eric’s wife Lori Bischoff? - Eric says he is glad brought that up. - Eric says he is so lucky to be with his wife. - Eric talks at length about the history of his relationship with his wife, how they met when they were both professional models in downtown Chicago. - Eric says every time he has had to move due to work, from Chicago to Minneapolis, to Arizona, to wherever...his wife has always been totally adaptable and been right there with him, supporting him. - Eric says wherever they went, Lori found a way to enjoy it. - Eric says as much as he and Lori love their home and their life in Wyoming, there were things that they did miss about living in a big city or urban center. Eric says he and Lori love fine dining in great restaurants, and the arts and museums...and obviously they did not have much access to any of those things living in rural Wyoming. - Eric says that the idea of being so close to New York City was definitely one of the reasons he took the job. Eric points out that if you look at his career, he has spent very little time on the East Coast and both he and his wife were looking forward to everything New York had to offer, since it was only an hour from their home by car. Eric and Lori wanted to “explore” New York. - Eric said that he Lori had planned to fly their children in for Christmas and have the holiday in New York City. Eric says that was very exciting. - Eric says Lori kept very busy during this time. Eric points out that his wife is a published author and “life coach” who had her own established business, most of which she was able to do remotely. Eric says his wife was looking forward to seeing how their new proximity to New York could help grow her already established business. - Eric says his wife was very positive during this entire process, so worrying about his wife’s happiness was not one of the challenges. - Eric says that when his schedule ended up involving him getting home at 3:00 or 4:00 am and crawling into bed, and then having to get up the next morning to be back in the office by 9:30 am was definitely challenging for Lori, but she never complained or didn’t support him. - Eric says that he did have weekends off to spend with his wife...technically. - Eric says that even though he was not expected to be in the office on weekends, he was required to have his phone with him at all times, and it was not unusual for Vince McMahon to call him regarding something work related in the middle of the night. - Eric says when you work for WWE, you are “tethered” to the business constantly. - Conrad asks for an example. - Eric says that he cannot get into the details about any of the reasons that he would receive a late night call, because discussing the particular information about any drafts, or contracts or scripts that were being sent back and forth on weekends or in the middle of the night would violate his NDA. - Eric says that when he was hired he was given a very strict warning that he must never turn his cell phone off, and that part of his job expectations was to always answer his phone, no matter what. - Eric says he was prepared for that, and worried about it more than he should have. Eric says that it didn’t happen all the time, but it did happen. - Eric says that the fact that when you work for WWE you are “never off duty” is something that he knew going in, but he underestimated the impact it was going to have on him. - Eric said he was fine with being asked to work 16 hour days, but he thinks it would have been nice if he could have been given just one day, like Sunday...where he could not worry about work and could spend quality time with his wife. - Eric says that never happens. - Eric says that if you ever see a picture of the corporate WWE jet, you will see the registration number painted on the jet: “WWE247” and there is a reason for that. “It’s not just a cool thing to say...it’s 24/7 when you work for WWE.” - Conrad says it’s time to talk about when the wheels started to come off... To be continued. Next time...

Thanks very much brothers, I really appreciate it. Like I said before, I don't mind doing this as long as I know people are actually reading them. I just didn't want to go to all the trouble if people weren't interested.

Okay, I started a thread. Here it is! The first recap I posted is the exclusive podcast where Eric Bischoff talks about the circumstances around his return and very quick departure from WWE in 2019. Hope you guys enjoy.

So here is a new recap. This is only part one of the recap, since it's pretty damn long I wanted to break it up a bit... Ad Free Shows Exclusive edition of 83 Weeks: March 28, 2020 "Eric Leaves WWE" Part One: Eric's journey back to WWE - Conrad says that today is the debut of his new "Ad Free Shows" Patreon site. Conrad says that members will not only get every episode of all of his podcasts with no ads, but each host will also be providing an exclusive bonus "members only" podcast once a month. - Conrad says that for the very first bonus episode on Ad Free Shows, he has convinced Eric Bischoff to do something that he had previously refused to do...namely to discuss the details surrounding his being hired by WWE as an Executive Producer for Smackdown in June 2019, and his subsequent firing four months later, on October 15, 2019. - Conrad points out that Eric had previously refused to discuss this topic, and asked why Eric had changed his mind? - Eric jokes that it must be because Conrad is so charming and persuasive, even more so than Vince McMahon himself. - Conrad asks all Ad Free Show members to not circulate this podcast online, and to keep it behind the paywall because there could potentially be legal ramifications for some of the things they talk about during this podcast. (Sidenote: I actually didn't recap this interview at the time out of respect for Conrad's request. However, this interview took place 9 months ago and Eric Bischoff has since mentioned many of the things he discussed in this interview in subsequent podcasts. Plus, a reporter named Andrew Ravens posted an article about this interview on a website called "sescoops.com" a couple of days after the interview was released...so I am thinking that the genie is pretty much out of the bottle at this point. More importantly, I am not stupid enough to not see Conrad is being a bit of a carny by acting like this interview was really breaking any of the terms of Eric Bischoff's non-disclosure agreement. Conrad was clearly just trying to make the whole situation sound edgier and more controversial in order to hype up Ad Free Shows and persuade people to sign up. If there had even been the slightest chance this interview could have landed Conrad in legal hot water or cost Eric Bischoff a nickel, there is no way in hell either of them would have done it.) - Conrad runs down a bit of the history of how Eric Bischoff’s return to WWE unfolded. Conrad says that to understand the background of this situation, they need to discuss Bruce Prichard. - Conrad talked about how he and his wife were having dinner with Eric and Conrad's employee Dave Silva after an 83 Weeks Live Show in Rochester New York in February 2019, when they found out that Bruce Prichard had been hired back by WWE and was returning to work for Vince McMahon. Conrad says that while he might have seen that situation coming, he never would have guessed that Eric Bischoff would also end up going to work for Vince McMahon. - Eric says he remembers that dinner. Eric says that when it came to Bruce Prichard returning to WWE, he was "surprised...yet he wasn't surprised." Eric points out that a lot of people don't realize that he and Bruce Prichard have become very close personal friends over the years. (Sidenote: Eric Bischoff and Bruce Prichard had never actually met prior to Bischoff going to work for WWE as a talent in 2002. This topic was discussed at length during episode #48 of "Something to Wrestle with Bruce Prichard" entitled "Eric Bischoff in WWE." Supposedly, when Eric Bischoff first came into WWE, there were a lot of people who were not happy about it. Some were former WCW talent who had grudges against how Bischoff had treated them (Ric Flair being one.) Others were WWE talent who didn't like the idea of being forced to work with the guy who had basically tried to put them all out of business. Vince McMahon apparently assigned Bruce Prichard the job of being Bischoff's personal producer and acting as a buffer between Bischoff and the rest of the WWE locker room. Prichard has admitted that he went into the situation reluctantly, assuming that Bischoff was going to be egotistical, opinionated, stubborn and basically hard to work with. Prichard has claimed he was shocked at how easy going and open minded Bischoff was. During this time period, Prichard's wife was going through a very serious battle with cancer, and apparently Bischoff was extremely supportive and compassionate with Prichard. Bruce Prichard has said that the Eric Bischoff he got to know in 2002 was nothing like the person he had heard about from other people. Apparently their time working together in 2002 created a personal bond between Prichard and Bischoff, and as a result they remained friends and stayed in close touch, talking to each other a couple of times a week, even after both of them left WWE.) - Eric talked about how much Professional Wrestling and specifically WWE mean to Bruce Prichard. Eric says that working for Vince McMahon was Prichard's whole life, and that when Prichard got fired in 2008 it devastated him. Eric says that Vince McMahon was almost like a Father to Bruce Prichard, or at the very least a mentor and that Prichard looked up to McMahon. - Bischoff says that after Prichard left WWE in 2008 Bruce struggled both emotionally and personally, but also financially. - Bischoff pointed out that Bruce Prichard got his start in the business working in the Houston territory for Paul Bosch when he was just a kid and has never really done anything else. - Bischoff says that when you have worked your entire adult life in Professional Wrestling and then you can't do it anymore it puts you in a very bad position. Bischoff says that having worked exclusively in Pro Wrestling does not really give you a skill set that you can use to help you get a job in any other type of profession. It doesn't look good on your resume. - Eric talked about how Bruce went from making six figures working for WWE to having no job and no real prospect for a job...so when Bruce and Vince started talking again, Eric was relieved. Eric says once Bruce and Vince started talking again, he knew it would only be a matter of time before Bruce ended up going back in some capacity. - Once Bruce did go back to WWE, Eric was happy for him but at the same time he was worried for Bruce's health (he has had several heart attacks and WWE is not known as a low stress job.) Eric was also concerned because Bruce was starting to make a lot of money from his podcast and working with Conrad. Eric says he was worried that Bruce would be giving up that guaranteed income, and that he would be leaving Conrad in a tough spot as well. - Conrad asks what happened after Bruce went back to work for WWE, how did Eric end up getting involved? - Eric remembered that Bruce, Eric and Conrad had all committed to some podcast related Live Shows, and that Bruce had agreed to finish his commitment to the Live Shows before going back to WWE full time, which Vince McMahon agreed to. The day of their final live show together, Bruce and Eric had breakfast together. Bruce asked Eric if he was interested in coming to work for WWE in a management position. Eric says that he would be happy to discuss it, but he really didn't expect much to come of the idea. - Eric pointed out that he had gone out of his way to leave WWE on good terms after his on air role there was finished. After his departure in 2007, he had been back to WWE several times to contribute to different projects. They had also done a documentary on him. So as far as he knew, Eric Bischoff was still on good terms with everybody in WWE and everybody seemed to consider his time there from 2002-2007 as an on air talent as a success and there were no bad feelings or personality issues as a result of that. - Conrad says that he thinks that the last time he remembered sitting down with both Bruce and Eric was at their final scheduled Live Shows. Conrad says that he remembers that Bruce Prichard's final "Something To Wrestle" Live Show was at Starrcast in Las Vegas. After that, Bruce would have fulfilled all of his contracted Live Event obligations with Conrad, and it was highly unlikely that he would do any more appearances, due to his position with WWE...he would be too busy, plus WWE didn't want Bruce appearing at events like Starrcast. - Eric says that he did see Bruce at Starrcast in May 2019 at Bruce's final STW Live Show, and maybe that was the time he and Bruce discussed Eric returning to WWE. Eric says he can't remember the details of exactly when he and Bruce discussed his returning to WWE, but he can distinctly remember the breakfast buffet at Starrcast in Las Vegas, because the food was good. - Eric says that the reason he can't even remember when he and Bruce first talked about him returning to WWE is because he honestly never thought there was a serious possibility of it happening. Basically, Bruce is his friend and wanted to get him a job with WWE, but Eric thought there wasn't a big chance of it actually happening. - Conrad asks when the conversations actually did become serious? Eric says that he got a call from Bruce in the spring of 2019 and asked if Eric would be willing to come down to Stanford and meet with Vince. Eric said that he would be willing to talk. - Eric talked about how much things have changed in WWE over the years. Bruce called Eric before Eric flew down to WWE headquarters, and told Eric that things are much more formal and businesslike than ever before, so it was important that Eric remember to wear a suit. (Sidenote: I assume this was because one of the things Eric Bischoff was infamous for during his time as President of WCW was his casual dress attire. Eric has mentioned several times that other executives in the Turner organization didn't like the fact that Eric Bischoff wore jeans and drove his Harley Davidson to work.) - Eric says that he hadn't worn a suit in over five years and he had to find one buried in his closet. - Eric remembers the first meeting he had with Vince McMahon was in Vince's office in WWE Headquarters. Eric says the first meeting was very casual and was just a "chemistry check." Eric says that Vince was interested in finding out what projects Eric was currently involved with and if any of them would interfere with the possibility of his coming to work for WWE. There were no offers made in this meeting, or details discussed. - Conrad asks how Eric felt after the first meeting with Vince? - Eric says it was a great meeting. Eric pointed out that he hadn't actually seen or talked to Vince for quite a long time, since 2008. Eric says it was nice to see Vince again. - Eric says that his joking nickname for Vince is "the silver tongued devil" and then when Vince flips his "charm switch" he is very hard to say no to. Eric confirmed the longstanding story told by many others in the Pro Wrestling business, that you can walk into a meeting with Vince McMahon feeling angry or determined to make a point about something, or you can have an agenda...but Vince seems to have an amazing ability to disarm people and get them to do whatever he says and agree with him. (Sidenote: Jim Cornette has told some hilarious stories confirming this. Cornette says not only can Vince persuade people to do things his way, but he is such a good con artist that he can actually convince people that doing things Vince's way was their own idea all along. Cornette admits that even he fell for that when he worked with Vince, and Vince McMahon was successful on several occasions in convincing him to do things he never would have ever considered doing...and then after he got out of the meeting he asked himself how that even happened. I have also heard Edge tell a very similar story.) - Eric says that he doesn't want to suggest that he and Vince McMahon are friends. Eric says he and Vince are "friendly" and that he has a great deal of respect for Vince McMahon and a "certain amount of affection" for him. - Eric wants to make it clear that part of the problem he ended up having with going back to WWE is that right from the start, he was never really 100% sure that he really even wanted to do it. - Eric pointed out that right at the time he met with Vince McMahon, his podcast with Conrad was starting to generate some serious and substantial revenue. - Eric said that he had some other major projects going on at the time, including a major movie project. (Sidenote: That would be the Hulk Hogan biopic for Netflix, starring Chris Hemsworth.) - Eric said that he was also an Executive Producer of a couple of reality TV shows as well. The point is, at that time he didn't "need" to go back to WWE and he really wasn't sure that he wanted to. - Eric says that he called his wife after the meeting and told her the meeting was good, but he wasn't sure anything was going to happen as a result. - Conrad asked what happened next? - Eric says several weeks went by after his first meeting, and he didn't expect to hear anything back. Eventually Eric heard back from somebody "very highly placed" with WWE. - Eric says that he wants to be careful at this point, as there are several people who are not publicly known that work high in the management structure within WWE and he doesn't want to name them. (I don't think this is because he is trying to hide anything, I think it is more that Bischoff knows he is a public figure and doesn't want to bring unneccesary attention onto WWE Executives who work behind the scenes and are not required to have public appearances as part of their duties with WWE.) This unnamed executive just called Eric Bischoff to inform him that although he hadn't heard from WWE, they were still interested in speaking with him further. - The following week, WWE contacted Eric again and asked him to come back to WWE Headquarters for a second meeting. - Eric says that at that point, he knew they were actually serious about wanting to work with him and it was possible they might actually make him an offer. - Eric says that after getting the call to arrange the second meeting, he actually had to start thinking about if he really wanted to go to work for WWE and what that would require. Specifically, that would obviously mean that he would have to leave his ranch in Wyoming and move to Connecticut. - At this point, Eric talked about his home in Wyoming. (If you have seen the documentary WWE did on Eric Bischoff, then you will have seen where he lives.) - Specifically, when Eric Bischoff was made President of WCW and started to make "Executive" money, he was living in Arizona. At that point, he and his wife made the decision to build their dream home in rural Wyoming. Bischoff underscored the fact that his home is in the middle of nowhere. Eric does not even live within reasonable travelling distance of a major urban center with an airport, so when he travels anywhere it usually takes him two days to get there at a minimum, especially in the winter time when travel could be very difficult. The other problem is that because Wyoming is so remote, getting there by plane is exceptionally expensive. Eric said that he is not joking when he says that you could probably fly around the world on Virgin airlines for the same price it would cost you to get back and forth from Wyoming to New York...it is prohibitively expensive. - Bischoff says that at this point, he had to consider the fact that working for WWE and going back and forth to his home in Wyoming was not going to work, and that he wasn't going to be able to work from home, so that was going to be a problem. - Conrad asked what happened at the second meeting? - Eric says that he knew that if WWE was going to go to all the trouble of flying him from Wyoming to New York for a second meeting, they were definitely going to make him some sort of offer...that was just common sense. Eric says that he knew going in to the second meeting that he was going to be required to make a commitment, and that within certain parameters, he would be willing to make one. - Eric met with Vince the second time, and they talked. - Eric says that at this point he has to be careful about violating his "NDA" (Non-Disclosure Agreement.) Eric says he has had to sign an NDA in the past and they never really worried him...otherwise he wouldn't be doing this episode...but at the same time he doesn't want to end up getting sued. Also, Eric says that even though things did not end well for him with WWE he still has "a certain level" of respect for Vince but even more so for Bruce Prichard, and he does not want to disclose anything which might upset them. - Eric also says that even though things ended badly for him with WWE, he doesn't want to bury them because there are a lot of people working there behind the scenes that he really likes and that treated him very well. Eric says he still has nothing but the highest respect for WWE and the people who work there. - Eric says that in the second meeting, a specific offer was made. (Eric does not want to discuss the actual financial terms of the offer, as I assume this would be a violation of his NDA.) - Eric says that looking back...this is where he made a mistake. - Eric says that right up front, he knew that WWE was going to require him to make a commitment to them that he really wasn't ready to make. Eric says that he was not prepared to permanently leave Wyoming or to sell his home and possessions, and move himself and his wife to Connecticut permanently. - Eric says he knew that even if things went really well between himself and WWE, the maximum amount of time he would last working there would be two years at most. Eric says that the longest commitment he was willing to make to WWE was to move to the east coast for two years, and that would be it. - Conrad asks does that mean Eric Bischoff thought that his relationship with WWE would sour within two years? - Eric said no...it's not that he thought things would go badly (like they did.) Eric says that the big issue to him is that he is turning 65 in May 2020. Eric says he is not a 35 year old man. If he was younger, he would have been glad to drop everything and move to New York without evening thinking about it, but at his age now he had to think about his future beyond WWE. - Eric says that this is a very important point...working for WWE is great because they are the biggest Sports Entertainment company in the world, ever. If you work there you get to work with the best people in the industry. However, Eric says that going into a relationship with a company like WWE you can't just assume you are going to be working there forever. You have to go into the relationship understanding "it is going to have a beginning, a middle...and an ending." Eric says that he wanted this to be the end to his career, and to end on a high note. - Eric says that when he went to work for WWE the first time in 2002, he did it for fun and because he wanted to do it to see what it would be like. Bischoff claims that at that point in his life in 2002, he was doing very well financially and didn't need to go to WWE for the money. - Eric Bischoff admits that when he went to WWE this time, things were a lot different. Eric says that his life had undergone a "severe financial downturn" and that the financial problems he was having were self-inflicted. - Bischoff says that he had made the decision to invest heavily in a digital gaming company called "Epics Gaming" and had put "serious money" into the business venture. - Bischoff says that he had invested over a million dollars into developing a digital slot machine business, themed after celebrities like The Blues Brothers, David Hasslehoff (?!) and of course...Hulk Hogan. - Bischoff says these celebrity themed digital slot machines were not intended for use in North America, but instead were intended for use in European casinos. Bischoff says that digital slot machines are much more popular in Europe than they are in North America, and that he thought having celebrity themed digital slot machines was a great idea. - Eric says that at that point, he was being managed by "CAA" (the Creative Arts Agency, which is the most dominant talent agency in the entertainment world) and as a result of his association with CAA he was able to put together an impressive stable of celebrity endorsed digital gaming machines with names like Dennis Rodman and Mike Tyson. - Eric says his company had great software engineers and a good business plan and everything looked like the company was going to be very successful, so much so that the company attracted external investors, even though he had put a lot of his own money into it as well. - Bischoff claims everything was going extremely well for his new company, until they put in an appearance at a major trade show in the UK. - Bischoff says his new company's presentation at the trade show brought them to the attention of a company called "William Hill Games" which is recognized as the global industry leader in the digital gaming and gambling business, and had expanded into the online business. Apparently William Hill Games has been a company in the gambling business for almost 100 years. (I assume they haven't been in digital gambling all that time.) - Bischoff claims that William Hill Games copied their idea, but had much more money and more contacts and were able to attract bigger name celebrities than his company had, and offer them more money. - Bischoff basically said that you can't copyright an idea as broad as "let's put a celebrity name on a slot machine" so that made it possible for William Hill Games to copy the idea, put more money into it and beat them to market. - Eric Bischoff says that even though their idea had been stolen by the industry leader after the trade show, they were still in a good position to make a lot of money when they were blindsided by the oppressive regulatory requirements for gaming in Europe. - Apparently Bischoff discovered that you couldn't just design a slot machine with a celebrity name, picture and endorsement on it, have it put in a casino and start making money. Bischoff says each European country had a different set of regulations and legal requirements for how the machines would work, how much they could pay off, etc. This would require each machine's software to be changed based on each individual country, which made the costs of producing the slot machines prohibitive. - Bischoff says this business failure is totally on him. He claims he got into the gaming industry thinking he understood how it worked, but then he found out there was a lot more to it than he ever could have imagined. - Eric says that he adopted a new personal motto when it comes to attempting to be an entrepreneur in a particular area which you are unfamiliar with, and that is: "You don't know what you don't know." Basically, if you think you have an idea that will make you a lot of money, you'd better know who you are up against for competition and understand all the legal regulations and requirements, and what pitfalls you might encounter. Bischoff said that he found that out much too late. - Eric Bischoff says that: "Long story short, I lost a shit ton of money, out of my retirement savings. That took a big chunk out of me." - Bischoff says that whole process of investing in the digital slot machine company and losing his money took about three years. - Eric says that around the exact same time, in 2011 or so he decided to start his own brand of beer. - Bischoff reminded Conrad that around 2010 the "craft beer" market was exploding and for a while it seemed like everybody was creating their own brand of beer. Bischoff came up with the idea of creating a brand of beer named: "Buffalo Bill Cody Beer." (Sidenote: For those who might not be familiar with the name, Buffalo Bill Cody was one of the most famous and well-known figures of the American Old West, and a legendary showman. He also founded the town of Cody, Wyoming which is the closest major city to where Eric Bischoff now lives.) - Bischoff says that around 2010 he hired a lawyer to research who owned the copyright on the name Buffalo Bill Cody. Bischoff claims the lawyer told him that nobody owned the name, so he was allowed to file a trademark for the name Buffalo Bill Cody. - Eric further claims that he was able to find artwork and photographs of Buffalo Bill that were in the "public domain" which means no exclusive intellectual property rights apply to the name because the rights may have expired or don't apply. (Sidenote: The issue of a famous person and their work being part of the "public domain" is actually pretty interesting. For example, no provable living relative of William Shakespeare exists, so that means technically anybody could create a product with name and likeness of William Shakespeare and not have to pay for it. The same applies to the character of Sherlock Holmes, since his creator no longer has any living descendants who can assert intellectual property rights...so you can technically use the name and likeness of a famous historical figure to make money, and you don’t have to pay anybody for the right to do it.) - Eric Bischoff says "everything was going great" in his application to create and product "Buffalo Bill Cody" brand beer, when he got a call from his lawyer. - Bischoff says that when he started the process of creating this brand of beer, he had been very specific with his lawyer that he was not looking to invest a lot of money in the process, since he was already in the middle of losing a ton of money on his digital gaming company. - Eric claims his lawyer told him the only money he needed to invest up front in the process of starting the new brand of beer was $12,000. - Eric says he was more than happy to risk that, since it really wasn't a large sum of money compared to the amount he had tied up in the gaming company. - Not too long after paying the initial $12,000 investment, Eric says his lawyer explained "there were a couple of issues." - Eric asked Conrad if he understood the process of applying for a trademark, and Conrad says he was familiar with the process. - Bischoff says it is possible to do a "trademark search" on a particular name and for the name to come back clean, with nobody owning a legal trademark on that name. However, before you are granted the legal trademark you must "publish the trademark for opposition." - Conrad says he is well familiar with that concept...and that it is trouble. - Eric says that is where "the shit hit the fan" with his Buffalo Bill Cody brand beer. - Bischoff says that a brand of bourbon called "Buffalo Trace Bourbon" filed a legal opposition to his application. Eric says they are a major company and had a huge team of lawyers who were used specifically to discourage anybody from filing any trademarks on anything similar to their product. - Bischoff says at the same time, a hotel in Cody Wyoming named "Buffalo Bill's Irma Hotel" also opposed his trademark. The owner of the hotel had no legal standing to challenge the trademark because he was not related to Buffalo Bill Cody, however the hotel had originally been owned by Buffalo Bill so the owner felt he had legal standing to challenge anybody else using the name. - Eric says that his initial investment of $12,000 then turned to $25,000 and then to $50,000 all due to legal fees. - Bischoff claims all the while his lawyer kept assuring him that they would get the trademark and the whole problem would be wrapped up soon. - Bischoff said that the legal bills kept piling up and soon enough he was invested $100,000 into his beer brand just to try and get the name he wanted to use. - Bischoff says he felt he had to keep fighting for the trademark, because if he didn't then he would have lost the $100,000 and have nothing to show for it...and more importantly he felt he was in the right and had every right to use the name to make his beer. - Eric said that is the worst thing about lawsuits...even when you know you are right, you still have to spend a ton of money to prove it. - Eric Bischoff says that he eventually did win the trademark, but by the time all was said and done it had cost him a quarter of a million dollars. - Eric admits that all this was going on at the exact same time he got the call for his second meeting with Vince McMahon. - Bischoff admits that even though he had his doubts about being able to make the kind of commitment that it seemed to take to work for Vince McMahon and WWE, he needed the money and that if he is being honest his financial problems definitely influenced his decision. (Sidenote: If Eric Bischoff and Bruce Prichard are as close personal friends as they seem to be, it's entirely possible Prichard knew all about Bischoff's money problems and pushed to get Eric a job with WWE to help him out financially, if for no other reason.) - Eric says that his podcast with Conrad was really starting to do well around the same time, they had built up an audience and the podcast was definitely starting to generate significant income...but the WWE offer was also very tempting for financial reasons. - Conrad asks if once WWE made the offer and financial terms were agreed upon, did WWE ask him to move to New York/Connecticut? - Eric admits that was discussed. - Bischoff says that he knows trying to work somewhere so far from home is pretty much impossible. When he was President of WCW he stated in Atlanta and did not commute back and forth from Arizona. When he was working for TNA, he would fly down to Orlando and stay there during the weeks they taped TV at Universal Studios. - Eric reiterates that he knew that he could not work for WWE during the days and go home to his place in Wyoming and have that be a viable option. Eric says working remotely from home was not an option either, it wouldn't have worked for WWE and he wouldn't have wanted to do it either...he prefers working face to face. - Conversely Eric Bischoff reiterated that his home in Wyoming was his home and he is not going to sell it or leave it permanently under any circumstances whatsoever. - Conrad burst out laughing when Eric said: "For anybody to get me out of this house...it's going to involve gunfire." - Eric said that he and his wife built his home in Wyoming when he was President of WCW, it was their dream home, it is the one constant in his life and he and his wife are going to leave the property to their children because they love it so much they want it kept in the family. Eric says it is the place where his children grew up, and he was going to keep it. - Eric says that he and his wife discussed it and decided that getting rid of their home in Wyoming was not an option. - Eric decided to take a two year contract with WWE and take a temporary home in Connecticut, but to keep their home in Wyoming. During Eric's contract with WWE he says he was determined to work as hard as he could, make as much money as he could, and at the end of that time he would retire and he and his wife would return home. - Eric Bischoff pointed out that although he was having some financial setbacks, he was still doing okay and didn't "need" to work for WWE but it the money was probably the main consideration. - Eric reiterated that he podcast 83 Weeks was starting to generate significant income, and that if the movie deal he was working on came to fruition he also stood to make a significant amount of money from that. (Sidenote: I actually believe that statement. As I mentioned elsewhere at PWO, during one of Conrad's "Ask Conrad Anything" podcasts, he broke down the financial details of his podcasts and how much income they generate. Specifically, Conrad said that based on the high number of downloads Bruce Prichard's podcast was getting, he was able to negotiate a significant deal with Westwood One. Westwood One would be responsible for selling Ad time of Conrad's podcasts to a "major Madison Avenue advertising firm." The rate paid out would be based on the number of downloads. Conrad claims that thanks to Westwood One and their contract with the Madison Avenue advertising agency, any podcast that can get more than 200,000 downloads a week can generate a "six figure" income. The deal is apparently pro-rated, so the more downloads the podcast gets, the more the advertisers pay. Conrad claims that Bruce Prichard's podcast is now getting almost a million downloads per seven day period, so his podcast is generating a great deal of income. This is why Prichard insisted that he be allowed to keep doing the podcast upon his return to WWE. Conrad has claimed that Eric Bischoff's podcast is the second most popular podcast in his stable...although it is very close to JR's show. As a result, Prichard, Bischoff and JR are all making "high six figure" incomes from their podcasts...as long as they keep getting good download numbers and Westwood One can maintain their advertising contracts. As far as the Hulk Hogan movie, there is a very good chance it will be pre-sold to Netflix, which means Bischoff will probably get a major payday from that project regardless of how good the movie actually ends up being or how many people actually watch it on Netflix. Because the movie will be sold to a streaming service, the income generated by the film will apparently not be dependant on it's performance at the Box Office. Which is good for them...because I can't personally imagine anybody paying money to go see a movie with Chris Hemsworth playing Hulk Hogan.) - Bischoff says that based on his new WWE contract, his podcast and the movie deal...he is once again financially stable and will be okay for his retirement. (Assuming he doesn't invest in any more celebrity slot machines or wild west brand beer.) - Eric Bischoff says that he and his wife packed their most important possessions and their dog into a trailer, and drove towards Connecticut. I will post the next part of this recap in the next few days. I need to take a break because the hot water tank in my building just burst open and now our basement is flooded with water...so I am going to be busy with my mop and ShopVac for a while. And now we have no hot water. *cue insane Jim Cornette style rant* To be continued...

In the "Cancellation of Jim Cornette" thread a couple of PWO Good Brothers were nice enough to request that I recap one of Jim Cornette's recent match reviews, like I have done several times with other topics in the past. I mentioned that (due to my being a subscriber to Conrad Thompson's Ad Free Shows service) I have access to some other interesting podcasts/interviews and I would be willing to recap those as well, if anybody was interested. Quite a few of you mentioned that you would be interested in reading some of these recaps if I was to start a thread dedicated to that idea. So I have decided to start a thread here and catalogue all of my most recent epic length recap posts. Then from this point onward, I will post any recaps in this thread so they are easier to find. As I went through my recaps for the past year, I couldn't help but notice that 99% of them involve Jim Cornette. Basically it appears that there are a fair number of people who want to hear what Jim Cornette might have to say about a particular topic...they just don't want to listen to him say it. I originally posted this thread in the podcast folder, but @MoS suggested I move it to this folder...so here we go. Here is what I have done so far, and stay tuned for new recaps soon. Jim Cornette interviews Kevin Sullivan regarding Dark Side of the Ring. (From "The Jim Cornette Experience Episode # 326") Jim Cornette interviews FTR. (From "The Jim Cornette Experience Episode # 334") Chris Hyatte Passes Away Jim Cornette responds to allegations made against him during the #SpeakingOut movement. (From "Jim Cornette's Drive-Thru: Special Edition 06/22/20") Conrad Thompson explains why he hasn't worked with Vince Russo. (From AFS Exclusive "Ask Conrad Anything" Episodes # 10 &11) Conrad Thompson explains why he won't be doing an SMW podcast or working with Jim Cornette and Conrad discusses his supposed heat with The Great Brian Last (From AFS Exclusive "Ask Conrad Anything" Episode # 13) Jim Cornette and Brian Last explain the end of the Jim Cornette/Dave Meltzer relationship (From: "Jim Cornette's Drive Thru" Episodes 116, 125, 148, and 156 and "The Jim Cornette Experience" Episodes 306, 317, 353 and 358) Jim Cornette reviews The Firefly Funhouse Inferno Match.

Just last month Bruce Mitchell just started working for Conrad Thompson's Ad Free Shows Subscription Service, doing a daily news update podcast. "Bruce Mitchell's Wrestling Hotline." He hasn't missed a day since it started, but there was no episode yesterday, and there wasn't one today either. I wonder if Conrad gave him the boot as well. Not for nothing, but the podcast is hot garbage. I stopped listening after two minutes into the first episode...which consisted of him bragging about his credentials. And the audio quality was shit...it sounded like it was recorded on a voice memo recorder, in an airplane bathroom, which had crashed in the ocean and was totally submerged in water.

This is really sad. If I'm being honest, there have been a number of deaths in Pro Wrestling over the years that have been sad (very sad in some cases) but not terribly surprising. We've seen cases of Professional Wrestlers who have engaged in a self destructive lifestyle succumbing to the hazards that come with such behavior. It's always sad, but after a while I am sorry to say I found myself becoming desensitized to all the Professional Wrestlers who were dying. Don't get me wrong, regardless of their behavior and personal habits, nobody deserves to die before their time...but if I am being self-critical I am forced to admit that at times my sympathy is tempered based on the personal history of the individual. This is clearly not one of those cases. It sounds like (based on what we've heard so far) Brodie Lee died due to an unexpected illness. It all seems so shocking and unfair. When somebody dies under circumstances like that, it seems to hit you extra hard because you never would have expected it. Especially when the person was young, in their prime and had so much more to accomplish in life. I remember listening to the interview Brodie Lee did with Chris Jericho on Jericho's podcast earlier this year. He sounded so excited to finally be in a position professionally where he wasn't being held back or restricted in any way. He had so much ahead of him, and now his life has been cut short and that really is a tragedy. The other thing that has really struck me about the death of Brodie Lee is the reaction from his peers in the industry. @cheapshotis right on the money...this situation reminds me of the death of Owen Hart. It hasn't even been 24 hours and the outpouring of grief has been really noteworthy. It seems like Brodie Lee really was one of those rare guys in the Pro Wrestling business who was loved by pretty much everybody who worked with him. And it strikes me again how practically every tribute to him contains a reference to how much he loved his family. It seems undeniable that this was clearly a guy who had his priorities in order and put his family first. And now he is gone, leaving behind a wife and two children. That's just unspeakably sad. I remember the first time I saw Brodie Lee. It was at a Ring of Honor event called "Bound By Hate." It was held at a freezing cold, half-full cattle arena on a country fairgrounds, north of Toronto. He was in a Tag Team match with Delirious against the All Night Express. I remember telling my friend that I was with "That guy looks like money. Considering his size, and how he can move, I'm surprised WWE hasn't grabbed him." Sure enough, when I first saw him in the Wyatt Family vignettes a few years later, I called the same friend and we talked about how glad we were he had made it to the "big time." My favorite matches involving him were with the Wyatt Family against The Shield. During his rivalry with Randy Orton in 2017 (during the whole angle when Harper was trying to convince Bray Wyatt he couldn't trust Orton) I remember being really impressed with a match he and Orton had on Smackdown. At that point, I realized that WWE was really missing the boat with Luke Harper. They clearly didn't realize what they had. I was hoping the Bludgeon Brothers were going to be a much bigger deal, but he was just criminally undervalued in WWE. Even though I am not a big AEW fan, I was so happy when Brodie Lee finally got away from WWE, was no longer being misused, and was in AEW where he could realize his full potential. Now, like I said...that potential has been cut drastically, tragically short and it makes me very sad.

Happy Holidays to all the Good Brothers here at PWO. This place is still a big part of my online life after all these years, I still drop by at least once a day, no matter what. PWO means a lot to me and I sincerely appreciate all of the other members who help make this place what it is.

In my opinion, yes. Angle tried hard but he looked really stiff and awkward. You could tell he was really past his prime at that point. If I am remembering correctly he had a hard time pulling off a few basic moves, not from lack of skill but just because he was so broken down physically. Going into that match I assumed that Angle and Triple H would assume the majority of the work and be the stars but I ended up being pleasantly surprised. Rousey was a revelation and even Stephanie did a great job in her limited role. As I recall they really sucked the fans into that match and gave it the heat.

That’s not a bad pick. I can’t think of anybody else who can honestly claim that their very first professional match ended up being the best match on the show, never mind at Wrestlemania.

Thanks bud. Turns out I screwed up and the poster name was actually “Michrome” with an “m” not an “n.” If I remember correctly he used to post here when this place was called New Millennium Blues, and I remember seeing him around various other message boards I used to post at over the years. I vaguely remember hearing somewhere that he had gotten involved with the Pro Wrestling business that’s why I wondered if it was the same guy. I guess it really doesn’t matter either way.

Jim Cornette reviews the Firefly Funhouse Inferno Match from TLC 2020 - Brian Last starts out by pointing out that he and Jim had already planned and pre-recorded their holiday podcast content and had only planned on posting new original content if "somebody did something stupid" and it only took one day for that to happen and interrupt their holidays. - Cornette agrees that they had planned a nice break but would only do record something new if it was truly noteworthy, but this match was historically bad so it met the criteria. - Brian pointed out that they had not planned on reviewing TLC as a PPV, and initially the reviews of the show were very positive. "And then the Main Event happened." (Side note: Some people - especially hardcore AEW fans - like to complain that Cornette picks on AEW and only rants about them, the implication being that Cornette and Last prefer WWE or give them a pass when they do stupid shit. Both Cornette and Last have repeatedly claimed the opposite is true. They have eviscerated AEW and will probably continue to do so, but they have repeatedly said that AEW has also done some good stuff that they like and even when AEW is bad, at least they are entertaining. Conversely, they have given up on pretty much all "Main Roster" WWE content and will not review the weekly shows because they are not only bad, they are extremely boring and have no entertainment value like AEW. Once in a while Cornette and Last will review a WWE PPV but invariably they end up roasting it just as bad as they do AEW...if not worse.) - Cornette says a lot of the blame for this match should lay with the WWE writers. Cornette says they used to be content with writing bad comedy, now they have branched out into bad horror as well. - Cornette pointed out that he is not adverse to the use of fire in Pro Wrestling, and pointed out that he was involved in at least two notable angles involving fire when he threw the fireball at Ronnie Garvin, and with Bob Armstrong in Smoky Mountain. Cornette says it is not the gimmick he is opposed to. "I'm not against setting people on fire. I've set people on fire." - Brian Last pointed out there is a big difference between the use of fire in old school Pro Wrestling and...whatever this was. - Cornette does a hilarious imitation of Kevin Dunn talking about the "Firefly Funhouse Inferno Match" and says he would have loved to have heard Dunn talking about it in the production meeting. If you've ever heard Jim Cornette imitate Kevin Dunn, you can imagine how funny this was. - Cornette says ring announcer Mike Rone looks like he gets his hair cut with a pencil sharpener. (Side note: Mike Rone is the same guy who used to post at the old Smarks Board and DVDVR Messageboard as "Michrone" isn't he? Was he ever a member here? I remember that guy being a really nice guy and a big fan of early ROH before the infamous RF "incident.") Cornette doesn't have a huge problem with the actual stipulation of having to light part of your opponent on fire. (Side note: I would hope not, since he and Bruce Prichard invented the Kane character and if I'm not mistaken he was involved in booking the match between The Undertaker and Kane at Unforgiven 1998 during which the ring was surrounded by fire and the only way you could win was to light your opponent on fire.) - Cornette says that some people might be surprised that he is going to criticize something involving Randy Orton, who he usually speaks very highly of. Cornette says that Randy Orton is one of the few remaining legitimate superstars WWE has. Cornette puts Randy Orton over huge, but says Orton reminds him of when Nicholas Cage went from being an Academy Award winning star to making horrible, straight to video movies just for a paycheck. Cornette implies Orton doesn't really care about the tradition of the Pro Wrestling business and is in it for the money. Cornette wonders what Bob Orton would have thought of this. Cornette says being involved in this drags Randy Orton down. - Cornette says that he isn't sure about Bray Wyatt and he thinks that Wyatt must actually think this stuff is good...because he has been involved in too much of this theatrical stuff to actually not enjoy it. Cornette wonders if this match is the end of "The Fiend" character. - Brian Last says he is confident we have not seen the last of Bray Wyatt. - Cornette points out that the reaction that he has seen to this match has been mockery, and wonders if that was WWE's intention. Cornette wonders if WWE wants people to laugh at and mock their property. Cornette wonders who pitched this to Vince, and can't imagine himself or Prichard or even Russo pitching this to Vince. Cornette says the Vince he knew never would have gone for this. (Side note: Cornette has said repeatedly over the past couple of years that he cannot believe that the same Vince McMahon he worked with in creative in the WWF 25 years ago is the person responsible for this type of match. Cornette has said that even though the WWF was never as "serious" a product as the NWA, Vince was still his father's son and had a lot of respect for the foundations of the Pro Wrestling business. Cornette and Last have talked at length about how Vince has changed over the years and is clearly "losing it.") - Cornette actually ends up bringing the match from Unforgiven 1998, and pointed out that it fit Kane's gimmick and that although you could tell how they did it, the stunt was not as obviously phony as this match was. Cornette claims one of his biggest issues with this match is how it was very clearly a mannequin that was lit on fire. Cornette says this match looked more like a Three Stooges film than it did like the match at Unforgiven 98. - Cornette says matches like this are what cause longtime fans to give up and stop watching wrestling altogether. Cornette says that if you do something like this once in a while, it may not scare away hardcore fans, but if you do matches like this regularly enough then some fans will just give up. Cornette points out that he saw some fans on Twitter saying this match was the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back" and they are officially done with WWE. - Brian Last and Jim Cornette also discussed the recent "all time low" record RAW rating and how things like this are contributing to that decline. Cornette equated this match to the effect that Mae Young giving birth to a hand had on the Pro Wrestling business. - Cornette points out that by being involved in too many matches like this runs the risk of a guy like Randy Orton to being known as "the guy who was in that goofy shit when the mannequin got set on fire" and that ends up being the kind of thing he will be remembered for, if he is not careful. - Cornette says it is very important to be aware as Pro Wrestling promoter what kind of "subliminal messages" you are sending your fans about your own product and what kind of memories you are giving them. - Cornette diverts from the narrative to ask for as an example, did Rey Mysterio end up growing a new eyeball after his match with Seth Rollins? - Cornette says you should never advertise stipulations which will cause the fans to roll their eyes. - Cornette says this kind of match is what the writers dreamed of and now they can do it because there are no fans in the building...now they can do special effects and retakes which they couldn't do before the pandemic. - Brian Last says he does not blame the writers, he blames Vince McMahon. - Cornette agrees there is plenty of blame to go around, and thinks somebody should give Vince a cognitive test. - Cornette wonders if they plan to resurrect Bray Wyatt like Frankenstein's monster. - Cornette hammers home again that one of his biggest issues with this match was not the concept, but the fact that it was clearly, visibly fake and that everybody could tell they set a mannequin on fire. They start to go through the match move by move... - Cornette complains about the obviously fake piped in fan noise. - Cornette says that Randy Orton doing an entrance like he was going into an actual fight was pointless in a match like this. - Cornette says that Bray Wyatt's entrance and look are actually "cool." The problem is that his matches are always full of phony stuff, and he doesn't sell properly. Cornette praises the overall aesthetic and appearance of the Fiend, and that is his favorite part of the character. It’s just when he starts to work everything goes wrong. - Brian Last says Randy Orton's entrance took almost 6 minutes. Cornette agrees that the entrances were way too long. - Cornette complains about Randy Orton punching Bray Wyatt right off the bat, only to have Wyatt totally no-sell it. - Cornette says this match reminds him of when Jerry Lawler was actually in charge of booking the Memphis territory and wanted to bring in Nick Bockwinkel, but couldn't get him. Cornette says that Lawler needed an opponent, and he had Duke Myers in the territory. Lawler put a mask on Duke Myers and called him "The Colossus of Death." Myers no sold most of Lawler's offence and they drew a 20,000 house out of it, but that was done as a one time stop-gap solution when they needed a heel to work with Lawler...it wasn't an ongoing character or program. That is not the kind of thing you want to see on a regular basis. - Cornette complained extensively about the ridiculous "quick cut" camera angles. (Side note: FUCKING AMEN. That is one of the many reasons I quit watching WWE. I fucking HATE those ridiculous constant quick cuts.) - Brian Last agreed. He said people find it hard to watch WWE programming due to the excessive quick cuts. Cornette says it looks like the old Batman TV series from the 60's. Cornette says WWE looks far too overly rehearsed and staged now, and it has lost all appearance of reality or spontaneity. - Cornette brought up another one of latest pet peeves, something he calls the "hand palm shoot off" where during a match wrestlers now just give their opponents a tiny half-hearted shove and the opponent rebounds off the ropes at full speed for no reason. Of course, the real reason they do this is to get momentum for a complicated manoeuvre or to transition to the next move, but Cornette HATES this and has claimed he would fine anybody who ever did this when he was in charge of WWE Developmental because it is so clearly fake, unrealistic and totally impossible under normal circumstances. Cornette says Rip Rogers would have killed Randy Orton for doing that move when Rogers was training him in OVW. - Cornette asks why Bray Wyatt was dressed like a biker version of Doink. Brian Last finds this very humorous. Cornette says Biker Doink would have fit in on Sons of Anarchy. - Cornette rips on Randy Orton wearing a track suit during the match, especially since it is a PPV Main Event. Cornette then admits that Orton had no choice for safety reasons. - Brian Last asks if we were supposed to believe that Bray Wyatt was controlling the level of the flames with his mind, or did he have somebody backstage manipulating the fire? Cornette says he can believe that the WWE pyro crew would agree to manipulate fire for the entrances for characters like Kane and The Undertaker, but even that "stretched credulity." Cornette speculates Vince McMahon was backstage egging the pyro crew on saying "hit it again." (Cornette did a humorous Vince impression here.) - Cornette goes mental about Wyatt swinging a strap that was obviously covered in flammable gel, but it was even worse when Wyatt swung "a fucking axe" and expected us to believe that he was actually trying to hit Orton with an axe and kill him. - Cornette complains there was no referee during this match. Cornette repeated that this no longer even resembles Pro Wrestling anymore, and that is why they are hemorrhaging fans so badly. - Cornette goes mental over the spot where Wyatt put Orton into a flaming rocking chair and how the announcers reacted. Brian Last agreed. Cornette and Last complain about how the announcers started speaking in "hushed tones" like people were somehow expected to take any of this seriously. Cornette says it sounds like they were trying to call a golf tournament. Cornette says that the announcers lose all credibility by trying to make a match like this sound even remotely serious. - Cornette points out that the faces of the fans in "The Thunderdome" were frozen which further made the whole thing look fake and phony. Cornette says it was humorous that at one point, the camera caught one of the fans on their video screen giving a double thumbs down. - Cornette says even if this had been a Pro Wrestling match, it would have been impossible to pay attention to because of all the distractions like the fire and the fake crowd noise and the bad announcing. Cornette says there was no way you could honestly get invested in this match. - Cornette says that this proves WWE has totally lost the plot. - Cornette gives Wyatt credit for allowing himself to be set on fire, but then wonders why he then responded by running into the ring, just so Orton could give him the RKO while he was on fire. - Brian Last pointed out that if you get set on fire, you're supposed to "stop, drop and roll." Cornette says instead Wyatt ran...and then he got dropped. Then he rolled over. - Cornette then mocks the fact that after pinning Wyatt, Randy Orton went to get a gas can and one of the announcers asked "What's he going to do?" Cornette replied: "What the fuck do you think he's going to do?! He's going to pour gas on this motherfucker!" - Cornette points out that it was very convenient that as soon as Orton rolled out of the ring, there just happened to be a can of gas and a large box of matches. Cornette jokes that it is standard practice to keep gas and matches at ringside. - Cornette complained that Orton is setting a guy on fire, but nobody bothers to come out to try and save the guy. - Brian Last and Cornette joke about how much trouble old school promoters used to have to go to in order to hide things from the Fire Marshall when they ran a show that would involve fire in any way, compared to this. - Cornette reiterates that his major issue is the cumulative effect of matches like this...the more you do things like this, the less the fans will care and you lose potential tools from your tool kit. Cornette says this is prostituting the Pro Wrestling business. - Cornette repeated the fact that he threw one simple fireball in Ronnie Garvin's face 33 years ago and people still talk about it to this day. Cornette talks about the reaction to that angle...how Jimmy Garvin turned babyface and rushed his brother to the hospital. Cornette says that simple angle drove people "berserk" so much so that ended up getting a ton of death threats. (He pointed out that some of the best threats were reprinted in his book about The Midnight Express.) Cornette says that angle drew huge money because it led to a series of matches between Ronnie Garvin and Barry Windham against The Midnight Express which drew big at house shows, and then later matches with The Garvin Brothers vs. The Midnight Express. Cornette says that was a huge angle...and it wasn't treated like a joke or a laughing stock. Cornette says that in comparison, if people do end up remembering the Firefly Funhouse Inferno match, it will be because it was so stupid. - Cornette says he can't figure out what has happened to Vince McMahon. He also says he can tell that Bruce Prichard is clearly just doing his best to serve up whatever he thinks Vince wants, because that is what Bruce has always done. Cornette pointed out that Vince thinks Bruce understands his creative vision, when in fact Bruce is just famous for giving Vince whatever he wants and telling him whatever he wants to hear. - Brian Last pointed out that Bray Wyatt has been involved in a number of matches which have been ridiculously stupid over this past year, starting with the Firefly Funhouse match at Wrestlemania. They talk about some match with Braun Stroman that took place in a swamp and ended up with the water turning red with blood afterwards(!?) Brian Last said that Bray Wyatt has been involved with so much nonsense over the past year alone that it all runs together and it is impossible to take him seriously anymore. - In a rare occasion of self criticism and self depreciation, Jim Cornette talked about a Pro Wrestler named Billy Black who was in Smoky Mountain, who Cornette booked as a Georgia “swamp bastard” carrying a burlap sack of "who knows what" around, but Black wouldn't stick with the gimmick and Cornette pretty much admits that the gimmick killed his career. - Brian Last read the recap from the Observer website of what happened the following night on RAW with Randy Orton and Alexa Bliss, and pointed out that things like this are the reason he and Cornette can't sit through reviewing weekly WWE TV. Cornette sounded both incredulous and somewhat depressed in reaction to the RAW segment. Cornette says he is tempted to watch RAW so he can rip it apart, but that means he would have to watch the show and he doesn't think he can do that. - Brian Last asks Cornette if he thinks Randy Orton should be charged with murder. Cornette says no, because if the police looked at the evidence it would be very clear that Orton set fire to a mannequin. - Brian Last pointed out that Impact recently did a "murder mystery" angle and Cornette pointed out that Lucha Underground was killing and resurrecting people before Impact. Cornette says Lucha Underground was right in the middle of Hollywood and had all the writers there to make that kind of stuff happen. Cornette says that Impact shot the groom, and Randy Orton burned Bray Wyatt, but Eric Clapton did not shoot the sheriff. Brian Last points out that it was actually Bob Marley who shot the sheriff, but they agree that he did not shoot the deputy. But Eric Clapton tried to take credit for it. - Brian Last asks if Matt Hardy actually drowned in the Football Field match in AEW, but Jim Cornette pointed out that Matt Hardy had already killed his own career by doing stuff like that. - Jim Cornette pointed out that Pro Wrestling is becoming much more dangerous because now you can be shot or burned to death. - Cornette talked about the time Shawn Michaels refused to work in the WWF when he (Cornette) was there, because Bret Hart had attacked him backstage. Cornette says that Shawn Michaels had complained that working with Bret Hart created an "unsafe work environment" but that was nothing compared to all this. Now you can get shot, burned or drowned. - Brian Last wraps up the segment by saying they are now returning to their planned holiday hiatus, but they will be back if somebody else does something stupid. Cornette says it is a given that will happen, because of the amount of stupid content in Pro Wrestling right now. Cornette says he will only come back if it is even more stupid than this, and that is setting the bar very high.

Fair enough. If people are actually interested I am happy to start a thread and post some of the more interesting stuff I have access to. I just didn't want to bother if nobody was going to read it. I am about 90% of the way through recapping the aforementioned Cornette review of the Firefly Funhouse Inferno match. I am going to take a break and walk my dogs, and then I will come back and finish up. It should be posted in the next couple of hours.

Every time I post one of my epic, overly long recaps or detailed reports about something, I'm always a little bit worried I'm coming across as too much of a pompous windbag, or acting like a know-it-all. Or even worse, that nobody even reads it or cares so I'm basically wasting my time. But if you guys actually want to read about this latest Cornette podcast, sure...I will post a recap. I will probably have time to post it later tonight. Not for nothing either...I have talked in other threads here at PWO about exclusive content I have access to, like Conrad Thompson's recent exclusive interview with Jim Herd, or Eric Bischoff's "Member's Only" podcast where he got into detail about what happened when he got fired from WWE last year. I would have actually enjoyed recapping and sharing that stuff, but nobody seemed interested. No...you guys want me to suffer by listening to yet another Jim Cornette rant about modern wrestling. But I am happy to do it, because you guys are good brothers. Plus, it is Christmas, the time for giving. Stay tuned...

As soon as I saw this topic, Jumbo was the first name that came to my mind, pretty much instantly. But after thinking about it for a moment, I realized that I didn’t have anywhere near enough knowledge to make that statement definitively. I am a huge fan of his, and I think I have seen pretty much every match he had from 1990 onward, but I am woefully under read when it comes to his early career. I still need to see the match with he and Baba vs. The Funks from 73, (and 75 for that matter) his shot at Brisco and the Title in 74, or his match with Dory in 74. Plus didn’t he have a couple of highly regarded matches with Billy Robinson at some point early in his career? I seem to remember hearing something about that but if so I’ve not seen them. I’ve seen his World Title shot against Terry in 76, but I have a huge gap in my Jumbo viewing up until the late 80’s when he was regularly teaming with and then going against Tenryu. I also remember a match with Kerry Von Erich I really loved when I saw it. Later career Jumbo has always been my favourite Jumbo, so as much as I suspected he was a good answer to this question, I didn’t feel confident giving it.

Good question and a great idea for a thread to stimulate discussion. Question for those who would know... Was Jumbo Tsuruta considered a star and a good worker as soon as he debuted? I know Baba sent him to train with the Funks in the States before making him a star in AJPW, but I don’t know if he was considered a rookie phenom or if he slowly worked his way up?

I’m an unabashed Corgan era NWA fan, but I just can’t get into this empty arena stuff, I don’t care which promotion it is. The only place I’ve seen pull it off is AEW because they can at least seat some fans. If the NWA doesn’t have an outdoor place to run shows with at least some fans, I don’t know how much I would even want to see it. Plus, Corgan gave anybody who asked for it their release, so what kind of roster will he have? I assume the talent exchange with ROH is done because of what happened to Marty Scurll. On top of all that Corgan doesn’t have Lagana to do the day-to-day grunt work, so who is going to run the NWA? I loved the new NWA but they are facing one hell of a long road back from the COVID mess.

Conrad held a live “Ask Conrad Anything” tonight on AFS and he said that he is finally ready to announce who his new, 6th podcast cohost is going to be. Conrad claims all the paperwork is signed, the deal is done and that an announcement can be expected about his new podcast in the next 10 days. Conrad says that this new cohost will probably end up being the biggest name out of all of his shows. I guess we’ll see if that is true or just hype.

So does that mean The North are done as a team? Because if that is the case, that would suck. They're excellent. Unless this is a precursor to The North showing up in AEW, which would be outstanding. FTR vs. The North is really a match that needs to happen, and from what I've read both teams want it to.

Mauro Ranallo going to work for Impact is highly unlikely. Ranallo worked for the Fight Network in Canada which is owned by Anthem (that's how they got into business with Dixie Carter to begin with and ended up being one of the many people she owed money, which resulted in then eventually purchasing the company.) Apparently, Mauro's tenure at The Fight Network was not pleasant for all involved, and he ended up departing under less than friendly circumstances, so a return to the same parent company is probably not going to happen.

I hear you. I once saw Bret Hart cut a promo that was so bad, my friends and I still quote it for fun, and this was 34 years ago. Back in the mid-eighties, the WWF would frequently air local market promos on their syndicated shows. Usually these promos were used to hype upcoming house shows (at Maple Leaf Gardens in my case, but obviously it varied from market to market.) Once in a while, between the matches or before they went to commercial, they would have a wrestler or tag team do just a generic promo which was obviously meant to fill time. One week, Ken Resnick was interviewing The Hart Foundation, minus Jimmy Hart. As bad as Bret was cutting promos at that point, Jim Neidhart was just as bad...if not worse. He usually just stood there stroking his goatee and cackling...and whenever the interview was over he'd scream "YEAH BABY!" and that would be it. So during this promo, poor old Bret was doing most of the talking. The Hart Foundation were talking about how they were the best Tag Team in the WWF and how they deserved a title shot...blah blah blah. Ken Resnick then started naming other teams and Bret would basically claim The Hart Foundation were better. You could tell that they obviously didn't plan this interview ahead of time. Resnick asked about The Killer Bees, and The Islanders, and other teams like that. The all of the sudden, he asked Bret: "Well, what about The Machines?" (Who were still comprised of Andre and The Masked Superstar at that point.) Bret totally froze, and you could tell that for whatever reason he wasn't expecting to be asked about The Machines. Finally, he stuttered out a reply... "The Machines?" "Yes, The Machines." *awkward pause while Bret looks like a deer caught in the headlights* "Well...let me tell you about The Machines." *awkward pause* "When you're big...(long pause)...and you're stupid...(long pause)...then...(long pause)...then it doesn't matter." End promo. From that point on, when my friends and I were hanging out watching wrestling, every now and then one of us would turn to the other and say: "What about The Machines?" To which the other guy would make his eyes open as wide as he could, and stutter and reply: "Well...when you're big...and...you're stupid...then...it doesn't matter." We still quote that to this day.

Here’s a terrifying thought... The Mauro Ranallo that you heard in WWE was how he sounded when he was being heavily produced and told in his headset what he could and couldn’t say, or do. Now imagine for a moment what Mauro Ranallo would sound like in AEW if he was given free reign and could act however he wanted and work to his own natural instincts without anybody keeping him in check or holding him back. I can only imagine that he’d be standing on top of the announcer’s desk, frantically jumping up and down, red faced, bellowing rhyming nonsensical pop culture references at the top of his lungs...and every time anybody else tried to speak, or even get a word in edgewise he would physically assault them.

Yeah, I think Bret's improvement with promos can be traced back to his hiatus after Wrestlemania 12. After he lost the title to Shawn Michaels, Bret made it pretty clear that he was going to try his hand at acting, and from what I understand he actually took it very seriously and underwent professional training and took acting lessons. He landed a part on the (admittedly terrible) spin-off series Lonesome Dove. The original mini-series Lonesome Dove in 1989 was based on Larry McMurtuy's Pulitizer Prize winning novel and starred Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones. That mini-series was outstanding. For my money, it is the best "Western" ever filmed (with Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven coming in close second.) After the huge success of the Lonesome Dove mini-series, they did a pretty terrible sequel called "Return to Lonesome Dove" (starring Jon Voight in place of Tommy Lee Jones who wanted nothing to do with it) and that second mini-series led directly into the Lonesome Dove TV show. The show was filmed in Canada, and was a Canadian co-production. When Bret Hart landed a guest spot on the show, it actually made the news here in Canada. His guest spot was actually pretty well received and he was apparently offered a full time spot in the cast of the show, but then it ended up getting cancelled. You can see some of his scenes on YouTube, and they're not terrible. Of course, like they do with every Pro Wrestler who lands an acting job...his first scene is replete with bodyslams and brawling...but his acting wasn't really all that bad. I've heard Bret say in interviews that if the show had stayed on the air and been a success, he might not have ended up coming back into the WWF in November 1996. I'm not sure I buy that, but Jim Ross and Bruce Prichard have both confirmed that Bret was super serious about getting the part on the Lonesome Dove TV show and was taking it very seriously. You can pretty much chart it...as soon as Bret Hart returned in the fall of 1996, his promos were significantly improved. I agree with @El-P in that I thought his promos after his heel turn were perfectly acceptable at worst, and they were frequently very good during the Canada vs. USA angle. And I think can be attributed to the acting he did during his hiatus in 1996. The whole "Bret Hart is a lousy promo" talking point pretty much dies at that point, if you ask me. He absolutely was early in his career, but like everything else he took it seriously and worked hard to get better. Hell, this is the man who cut the "Who are you to doubt El Dandy" promo. That shit was gold.

By the way...anybody who wishes they could hear the Wrestling Game Rewind podcast, drop me a PM.