Timbo Slice

Mistakenly put Ozaki instead of her in talking about the Toyoda match in Toyoda's thread, which is a boneheaded move on my part. I like the Onita comparison, and while I am weighing big matches heavily in how I construct my list, I'm not sure if she has enough to make my list. That being said, she really has had some fantastic matches, and depending on where I place the other joshi workers I like, she might sneak on.

There are plenty of wrestlers who know how to make a match compelling without all that action, though. Workrate and move set always seem to come up together in discussions I've seen. Or that they use a lot of cool moves. And then that becomes what fans think of when that term comes to mind and wrestlers who throw more nuance into their match get penalized in their minds. To me, work rate has been what Matt's statement means. And because that's how I perceive the term, I truly believe it doesn't matter.

I actually really liked the main event in parts, but Michaels wasn't that great to me. Sid knowing his role came off way better for me. There was some timing that was off.

That is definitely a standout match. The two late standout matches for me are the Kawada/Kobashi 6/12/98 match (and not just because it happened on my birthday) and that match.

Yeah, I was talking to Loss about him and I think the one thing Sting has for him is his willingness to go outside his comfort zone against certain guys. He didn't have the same match with Vader as he would with Regal or Foley or Luger or Flair. He adapted well. I understand if people think he wasn't the best guy in those matches, but he was a good worker.

The AJPW style that everyone who was a fan of from the 1990's basically ended after the 1/20/97 match with Misawa and Kobashi. That transitioned into the head drop heavy stuff that permeated the rest of the decade, and while the 1/20/97 match was the start, the 6/6/97 Misawa/Kawada match basically confirmed the direction they were going in and the Kobashi rematch in October kicked it into overdrive.

It's not a pass because of substandard output. It's whether or not that substandard output takes so much away from the stretch where he was considered great. It's an easy comparison, but Jordan wasn't that great with the Wizards and people are quick to forget about it because of what he did from 91-98. My argument about Flair is that a lot of people talk him down from his high horse because of what he did later in his career without considering what he did when he was at his best. Basically that whatever Flair did post-Hogan arriving in WCW was crap. And because Lawler and Funk and Tenryu and Fujiwara had some great late-career performances that Flair gets penalized for not being as great as them later in their career. Where if you compare the best of Flair and the best of the other guys when they were at their peaks, then it's a much more difficult decision to make. I'm definitely not against taking in the entirety of someone's career, but I'm definitely against weighing the bad stuff that happens later in the career for the sake of outliers. Careers aren't all built the same. Some wrestlers age gracefully, others burn out too quickly. But just because a few did age gracefully doesn't mean they all have to.

He'll be in my Top 50 but with him being one of my favorites of all time and the fact that I was present at his best match ever, it's hard for me to look at him without personal bias. He might get into my Top 25.

Also the 6/1/93 vs. Kobashi/Misawa and the 5/21/94. If you're interested in them, they also have two 60-minute matches on 1/24/95 and 10/15/95. If they aren't my #1, I'm gonna be very surprised, but they're Top 5 easy for me right now.

One of the teams I'm considering for #1. Best babyface tag team of all time. Probably the best team at constructing a finishing run that I've ever seen.

I think the AWA set showed they were indeed a great team and that they worked well regardless of the opponents. I'm pretty sure I'll have them in my Top 25 when it's all said and done.

The one that was on the Memphis set.

I was just coming in to post what MJH said. The sheer volume of matches Flair compiled in his heyday puts a lot of other guy's to shame.

Great American Bash 1989. SuperBrawl II, Spring Stampede 1994 and Money in the Bank 2011 are all close.

Didn't Jerry Blackwell have a lot of strongman stuff to his credit, too?

Fuck that finish.

For the most part, the Nashville crowd has actually been pretty good. Been hot all night, really.

Alex Riley, stop trying to make Tootsie's happen. Really.

Well, that's a MOTYC for me. Holy shit.

I wasn't cherry picking so much as pointing out those four matches off the top of my head because they were still fresh and because I'm weighing performance in big matches heavily in the project. She was a part of some of the biggest joshi matches ever and more than held her own. Totally agree on seeing as much as possible, but considering just how many wrestlers are a part of this list and how many a lot of us are going to have to go through just to have enough to vote on, those are a good starting point as any.

I can't see him falling out of my Top 5. He might be the most well-rounded pro wrestler ever. And while I understand Parv's argument for longevity in the sense that Funk moved around more than Flair did, it's amazing to think Funk moved around as much as he did and was that good basically everywhere he went.

He basically dominated that Lawler match, so I think he knew when to dominate and when to feed.

I really only know the Japan stuff but I know there's some Puerto Rico stuff that is probably his best. Haven't seen much of that yet.

Luger in 1989 had one of the best in-ring years I've ever seen. I think he's second only to Flair in the NWA in 1989. But if you start with Starrcade '88 and end it before he went to the WWF, is it enough for me to put him on the list? I don't think so.

Don't think he has enough to make the cut, but he does have some great high points.