Timbo Slice

Erik Watts is terrible. Bagwell was at least a part of a few decent matches. Watts never was.

They cheated it, but only by about 1:30. Using the WWE Network clock, it goes about 28:30 or so. Crowd was definitely drained, but the way Gordy and Doc worked, it wasn't going to be as exciting. Yes, they made the Steiners work way differently than they were used to, and it made them better because of it, but at the same time, there wasn't much excitement behind this match at all. Too methodical. They cut this in half for the Clash match and it was fine, albeit not exactly memorable, either. There was a lot of talk amongst tape traders and the dirt sheets about this being a dream pairing, right? Because it was the top gaijin team from NJPW facing off against the top gaijin team from AJPW?

I actually went back through the entire Luger series and even with the two great Windham matches and the Steamboat series, I'm not sure there's a better representation of what Flair was than those matches with Luger. All of them were just terrific matches and Flair's heeling was some of the best I've ever seen.

So IS there any footage from San Francisco out there? Just in general, I mean. It seems like a holy grail of sorts. One of the first teams that popped in my head during this project that I really wanted to dive in on considering how much I loved Bock in his AWA stuff.

Thought it was an up-and-down show at best. Opener was too spotty for me and I wasn't the biggest fan of Ziggler being able to kick out of so much. Meanwhile, Ziggler hits the Zig Zag and Cesaro's still laying there selling it for a couple minutes afterwards. Bellas match was fine, but it wasn't really a great match either. It might have been great for them, but there was a lot of disjointed stuff in the match. Did like some of the offense, but they don't know how to transition well from one spot to the next. It doesn't look natural. Tag titles match, too. Cody looked lost at points and Dustin had to take over down the stretch to make it watchable. For all the crap people give the Young Bucks and indy guys about superkicks, the Usos going superkick crazy makes me laugh sometimes. WAY too much overkill for Cena/Orton. Understand they wanted to build it as an epic, but if it's so epic, why put it after the first hour on the show? Fans are smart to know it's not as big as you're making it out to be. Match had some neat stuff to it, but after weeks of seeing Orton kill folks with the RKO, Cena kicking out of two good counters seemed silly. End seemed unnecessary. Rusev/Show was great. Rusev has turned into one of the best all-around guys the company has right now. Show knew exactly how to make him look good and Rusev took advantage of his times to shine. If they have him and Ryback go at it, I'm gonna be stoked, too. AJ/Paige I fast-fowarded through. Not enough interest there. NXT girls are putting on more entertaining matches in a lot of ways. Need to get Del Ray to work on the road, too, it seems. Main event was pretty blah in a lot of ways. Understood why the crowd was into it, but in the end, it meant nothing. Ambrose getting over organically pisses off the WWE brass who don't see money signs with him, but he'll be worth something to them soon enough. Fuck that ending. Not even remotely good. I just finished watching 1990 WCW and I don't need to see the cheap parlor tricks like it's the fucking Black Scorpion. Also makes a lunatic like Ambrose look that much dumber, which is hilarious considering he's supposed to be fearless and he sells a fucking hologram more than the offense from Rollins. I'm not shitting completely on the PPV but WWE feeling its way through its month-to-month shit while trying to find definitive endpoints makes it tough to sit through. They're overthinking so much when simple things like what Rusev is doing works that much better, and an actual feud like Rollins and Ambrose gets blown off like that when a feud that's not nearly as hot in Cena and Orton gets the 25-minute epic treatment with a definitive finish because you gotta feed Cena to Lesnar one more time and the fans don't care nearly as much because it's the 121st time they've squared off on TV. The disconnect grows, and it's going well beyond what Vince and Dunn think compared to what Trips thinks. I'd even think blowing up all the storylines and having an NXT invasion could be in the cards considering how stale things have gotten.

The reason why any invasion angle works is because they guys coming in are considered threats. If you don't, then you get the invasion angle we got.

I always just circle back to "Why did they do that spot at that time?" Is it because it's a good spot? Is it because they wanted to build towards something else? It's pretty easy to tell whether they're throwing spots out there just because or whether they're doing it to build a story. The reason why the MPro stuff still holds up is because of the way they built the spots throughout the match. They started slow, paired off, and then by the end, it's just balls to the wall and they're throwing everything they can out there. There's a rhythm to it. The reason why a lot of matches nowadays don't have that same aesthetic is because a lot of the big move spotfests today are done to pop the crowd more than they're telling a story. There's a disconnect between why the move is done and why it should be done in the first place. Hell, I just watched the Generico/London vs. Young Bucks at DDT4 from 2010 and there were plenty of spots, but there was a pretty decent story attached, too, which you wouldn't expect from those guys. It all comes back to meaning. If you're gonna throw out a bunch of big spots and you can make them work in the context of the match, more power to you. But if you're doing it just because you want to get it in, it shows and it can make the match a lot less interesting.

Florida damn well still belongs to Ox Baker. Rest in peace.

The 2003 ROH AJ/Paul London match that was London's last match before heading to the WWE was really good save the ending. Some good leg work in the match and I remember it being a lot different than the ROH matches that were going at the time because it looked like there was a concerted effort to tell a story, which was missing in ROH back then. That sold me on AJ being a lot more than a spot monkey.

The work was good, but it seemed empty due to Fujinami not being well known amongst the crowd. I understand why they paired them up, but bringing over Muta to work Flair would have been great to see and would have worked considering Muta was about to get the big push in NJPW at this time. Fantasy booking aside, Fujinami was in a no-win situation here. Can't really blame him for not getting over quickly because he just doesn't work a style that allows him to get over in the course of one match. A lot of dull moments here.

Disjointed in a lot of points, but there are definitely some high points, and if they figured out a better bridge after the initial salvo to the finish, this would have been the best tag sprint ever. As it is, the sum of the parts just doesn't add up. Not a great match, but a lot of fun in parts. Scott especially came off looking like a star. He had a lot of pop in everything he did in the match and when he was in there, he added a lot.

Most likely, Danielson and Low-Ki were known quantities. Gulak and Busick aren't. Most people who are fans of any kind of entertainment give creators they like more rope than people they have no idea. This, basically. And wrestlers most definitely work in stuff where they think they're going to get a This Is Awesome chant. Guys who work to that aren't doing it right. That's not organic. That's reactionary to the point where it's like a Pavlovian reflex. I understand the idea that Joe's presenting, but there's a big difference between a couple of guys doing something organic that elicits that type of reaction and a couple of guys working through spots for the hand clapping or This Is Awesome chant in response. You don't work for that response like it's a spot in the match.

The main problem with me is that crowd chants, more than anything else, have become more about getting the crowd over than it is about reacting to something that the wrestlers do. It's about people hearing them and thinking, "Wow, those guys know what's going on. That's funny/smart/good." That doesn't sit well with me and it really hasn't ever since it started. Even with me being a big ECW fan, I was never a big fan of the chants they'd come up with. Rooting for the face or booing the heel is just how I like wrestling. I don't need affirmation from a bunch of fans trying to get over to tell me how I should feel about something they see.

Is there much footage of his LA stuff? The Piper stories he tells when he went up against him make me really want to see that stuff.

Justin Roberts released. Ever since the Fink retired, WWE just hasn't found a good ring announcer at all. They stuck with Roberts for 12 years. Unbelievable. Is Gary Capetta still out there?

The Reborn shows in 2004 really got me into the product. That Chicago Street Fight is one of my favorite ROH matches ever, too. I think they did a lot from there until about 07-08 to be level with WWE, who had lost their way in producing a good product in many ways. Once they decided to get a bit too big for their britches, they lost me, but ROH helped me stay interested in wrestling for a while.

Dana White vs. Vince McMahon. Book it.

I just watched a lot of ME going through the old WCW PPVs and they were superb in this incarnation. I know people prefer Condrey but I think Eaton and Lane were the better team. I think I might have these guys in my Top 10 when it's all said and done.

I'm gonna have a tough time putting him on here even with me putting an emphasis on working in big matches. He's had as many as anyone on this list, but I don't think they have been nearly as good as a lot of others who worked main events, and even then, I haven't seen him as the best worker in a lot of them.

I don't think you're gonna be able to have a list without some strategic voting. Not at all possible. There's gonna be dismissive comments, there's gonna be troll bait, there's going to be people looking at lists and thinking if that person might have been under the influence of something when they turned it in. Can't avoid it. That being said, I think there's a lot of people on here who are gonna be able to craft lists without the need for strategic voting. Say there's 25 ballots? I'll bet at least 3/4 of them will be 100% without strategic voting.

One of the best right hands ever, the best swinging neckbreaker ever, a fantastic bumper, and as said above, great timing. Watched the WrestleWar '90 tag between the Midnights and RnR and even after all those years, they figure out ways to make things work, with my favorite being Eaton coming in on a blind tag as Morton rolls up Lane to deliver the neckbreaker. Stuff like that made him stand out during that time, way more than Lane's crappy karate stuff.

So then where do guys have more elasticity in a style and are having great matches? To my knowledge, agents are a big part of the finishes more than anything else, and guys who have been around a while are trusted to call the match themselves when they're out there.

I feel like Parv would like the Brahman Brothers based on what Will just said.

As far as his knees go, I wonder if working at the performance center and having some strength and conditioning work is going to help him going forward because he's already lost some weight and that's gonna help his knees going forward. I don't see him making my list, and I love Steen, but if he comes through in the WWE, he'll be interesting to revisit if this happens again down the line.

I'm not sure about the health aspect (although I know a lot of people think that way) but in the context you're talking about, Kobashi's entire late career run comes into question because of that. Same with guys like Angle, Toyota and a lot of other guys reliant on a lot of high spots, but because they feel the need to up the ante, end up burning those spots out. One reason why a guy like Hansen gets considered as a #1 guy in a lot of people's eyes is because he knew how to build his matches up to where the question became whether he hit the lariat or not, because people basically knew if he hit it, it was over. He then figured out ways to incorporate it without burning it out as a true finish, with the 2/28/93 Kawada match perhaps being the best example of that. Vader DID have that to an extent, especially when you had guys kicking out of the moonsault. But I'm not sure if that's on Vader or that's just on the style he ended up working.