Loss

The storyline is that Bret and Owen Hart are going out and finding wrestlers to try to come in and take out Lawler, or at least that's what Bert Prentice says. From there, we segue to Jennifer on the Road with Jeff Jarrett. Jennifer is in bikini with Jeff Jarrett all prepared to take a ride with her on his Jet Ski. Jennifer asks his interests outside of wrestling and he mentions all sports and music. Then, we get a montage of Jarrett and Jennifer riding the Jet Ski to "Surfin' USA". Oh, pro wrestling.

This is a match people who are getting their feet wet with lucha should watch. It really is the most American-style lucha match I've ever seen in terms of the way the match builds from fall to fall and the psychology. Much of this is based around Felino destroying Ciclon's arm, and Ciclon coming back with some amazing dives. Nasty submissions, especially the fall finishes. This will finish pretty high for the year for me. Great post-match celebration from Felino too.

Every single thing listed here is going on. The gimmick matches aired in clipped form as part of an extended recap of all the title changes (Every one of those matches was a title change). That will go on, but not the matches in full. Don't know if the first two Bodies/Rock & Roll matches are out there, but there will be a handheld match featuring those two teams on the set, just not from those dates.

Oh, and maybe Steiners vs Arn/Eaton from Superbrawl doesn't make it to the final list, simply because we can't include the entire commercial release of SuperBrawl II, as much as I'd love to, since that is my favorite PPV ever and all. Seriously, what can be cut from the commercial version of that show? Liger/Pillman? No. Windham/Rhodes vs Austin/Zbyszko? Not a chance. Rude vs Steamboat? No way. Sting vs Luger? The match blew, but the finish has to go on, so that's likely to get chopped down. I like the match, but it's a victim of being part of a loaded show, on a comp that is supposed to be highlights, so the instinct is to take off what we can and spotlight something different.

Possibly not Beach Blast since we also have the Clash match which is much better, but yes to all the rest.

It is the loss of kayfabe. Fans now see the actions of the wrestler as the action of the promotion.

It's going on.

Define it how you choose and explain your case. Sometimes, the goal posts of the best discussions are left purposely vague. My definition was marketing oneself outside of wrestling. Use of technology to do that is a plus, obviously.

Thought this would be an interesting topic. Obviously, if we were considering best of all time, I can't imagine how anyone but Hulk Hogan would fall in this category, but if we're looking at current wrestlers and how they market themselves, I've gotta go with Chris Jericho, who seems to be more media savvy than anyone in wrestling these days. I'll elaborate more later, but I'm curious what everyone else thinks.

I know touring companies like WWE and AAA (and WCW at one time) have done great business in California, but I do often wonder why the super indies (the ones that get the most attention among hardcore fans) are always the ones in the Northeast. You'd think an ROH-style group could run regularly in California or Chicago, just as two examples, and do reasonably well. The Northeast fans seem to get all the big indies. Also, considering how historically rabid Carolinas fans were about their wrestling, you'd think a super indy could run all the old Crockett towns (Charlotte, Greensboro, Ashville, Winston-Salem, Columbia, Raleigh, Norfolk, etc) and do reasonable business too. I know it wouldn't be an ROH-style presentation in that area of the country, but I do think some parts of the business model used by your bigger indies could be applied there and do well. (I don't think the business model that relies primarily on DVD sales to an audience outside the territory would work as well.) Also, there's Dallas. Houston. Memphis. Atlanta. New Orleans. Tulsa. Louisville. All at one time hot cities. I realize most of these places have local wrestling. But none of them are as big as ROH. Is there something I'm missing as to why?

Criticism of the match and of the angle are two different things. I don't think Will and Dylan have criticized the angle.

This was great! Henry is a good heel, but they could really get him over as a babyface if they let him be himself. Cornette always felt like that was the no-brainer way to book him too.

If Bischoff had gone to Flair and said, "Hey, Bret got color last week on their PPV. Do you mind getting some now? Just keep it on the down low, we'll figure out a cover story later", I do believe Flair would have shared that story. He has no loyalty to Bischoff and definitely didn't at the time he wrote his book. I also don't think Flair felt any sense of competition with the WWF by this point, so I can't see him blading in response. He was too out of touch with wrestling that didn't involve him to notice. Connect the dots? Sorry if I don't think there's a Lowell Weicker Jr.-style conspiracy theory here to espouse.

On that topic, from what I hear, Wade seems to have reclaimed his sanity and is slowly returning to old form. That's good news. At his best, Wade is great, and I wouldn't mind seeing him give Dave and Bryan a run for their money. Sadly, it seems like he doesn't have many sources anymore, as I can't remember the last time he broke a story.

This.

Where in this thread have I implied that you have no right to tell Flair how to work? You said the match failed to deliver because you expected something far more intense and heated. I explained why I saw otherwise.

The one I saw live convey the hate: Marty wanted to kick the living shit out of Shawn. That said, is anyone saying that Marty and Shawn at that time were collectively as "smart" of workers as people would pimp up Ric and Arn to be by 1995? I'm not sure about the "smart" argument, but I'm sure you would find plenty of people who felt Michaels surpassed Flair by the time of the Jannetty feud. I'm not disputing that point. I disagree with it, but I have no issue with it. The part that I do disagree with is the idea the match should have been hate-filled when that really wasn't what they were aiming for at all.

Oh lord... is anyone really buying that one? It's up there with Bret's juice against Piper and Davey Boy being "accidents". Bret admitted a long time ago that he lied about that. No one has looked at that as an accident in years. I'm not sure what Flair's motive would be to lie about it.

Two points: * Terry vs Flair on live TV didn't have juice, but folks seemed to think it got across a aura of violence and hate. And TBS wasn't exactly happy with that. I suppose that if they wanted to grill hamburgers in the ring, they could have found the right person to make sure they weren't violating fire code too. My point is that I wish you would just look at the match in practical terms and what they reasonably could have done to make the match better. If that means showing more piss and vinegar during the match, fair enough. If that means finding someone to lie for them so they could violate company policy, that's not a criticism I put much stock in.

Saturday Night, during the 2-3 month spell where every single main event was a 2/3 falls match.

Not sure about #2, but to answer your first question, Big Josh vs Arn Anderson was excellent and will be on the '92 yearbook. Yet another 2/3 falls match, going about 40 minutes.

Kawada tricking Akiyama into doing the pescado and then casually walking away is officially one of my favorite wrestling spots ever. Really a thinking man's match, a case of skilled young guy going against guy at his peak who's been around the block a few times and has some nice tricks up his sleeve. Akiyama may be every bit as determined, but Kawada is smarter. I also love Kawada putting Akiyama away with the same type of lariat Hansen used to put him away earlier in the year. This isn't the best match on the set, but at this point, it's my favorite.

So we're planning on releasing 1995 after 1992. We're also trying to get all the matchlists finalized by early summer for every year so goodhelmet can go comp crazy over summer. So, keep those recommendations coming.

I think we've got the right balance at this moment in time, but if anything changes, I'll let you know. As always, it's going to be a tight fit. Every major wrestling promotion in the world was having an excellent year. There was less essential U.S. in 1993, where WCW in 1992 could conceivably be 30 discs on its own. That said, I think all the must-have stuff -- and some nice-to-have stuff -- will still make the set. I'm also happy with the All Japan and New Japan we have listed. Mexico had way more singles matches than usual that looked good on paper, to a point where I'm curious if there are some we can cut.

Savage cut him open without anyone's (including Flair's) permission.