Loss

Watched the match again and I think I found a comfortable place for both it and the 9/2/89 rematch, which is another great match that has some qualities that I like even more than in the 6/5/89 match, but it doesn't come together as beautifully as the first match. I'm about to watch Fans v Kikuchi/Malenko, which I'm sure is going to put this list out of whack yet again.

Just watched Kawada/Fuyuki v Furnas/Kroffat from 6/5/89. WOW. I've said before that I don't think any one wrestling match can encompass everything I love about wrestling. This isn't the best match I've ever seen, but this has come closer to accomplishing that goal than any other match I've ever seen. HEAT - In droves. I love how the native team gets BOOED for double team spots and saves while the Can-Ams get big babyface pops for it. All the moves get big heat. The Kroffat/Kawada brawl early on gets the crowd electric (as well as me). OFFENSE - World class offense all the way through this. More advanced than any WWE match I've ever seen in terms of that, really. Strong command of the basics, and they build up to the big moves to get a huge pop. FACES & HEELS - I sort of explained this under HEAT, but the role playing here is so great that I wanted to mention it again. TRANSITIONS - Late 80s AJPW transitions are better than 2005 WWE highspots. Ponder that. Amazing. MATCH LAYOUT - Tons of revenge spots and in-match continuity with Kawada/Kroffat and the floor brawling is loaded with payback spots. One of the most accessible Puroresu matches I've ever seen, and in some ways, I like it better than matches that are higher on the list, but I can't justify saying it's *better* than some of those above it. Elements of Mid South are here (Furnas' spear), elements of NJ juniors matwork are here and WWE style better than WWE style is here in some ways as well. Watch this back to back with the Double Chrisses v Austin/HHH tag sometime. Layout building to Furnas's hot tag is actually very similar to the build to Jericho's hot tag, but they organize it better here. If you say the brawling outside around the guardrail with Furnas saving his partner equals Jericho's WOJ on HHH outside the ring, this comes at the right time in the match without the ref being forced to bend the rules. Awesome, awesome, awesome. I already find things I disagree with on this list, because this is better than MX/Fans 3/27/88, and I need to do some rearranging there.

I kept thinking that this was all going to lead to Bryan Danielson's return, and that he'd come back and defeat Punk for the title. I guess not.

Objective? There were no "I believe" or "I think" or "In my opinion" sentences *at all* in Meltzer's coverage of the event. He only started editorializing about it years later, and that was after literally talking to every single person involved, even those on the periphery like the Undertaker and Steve Austin. Meltzer had no reason to be biased toward Bret Hart. Bret hated him at the time, but also knew the value in getting his story out, and a friendship grew when Bret realized that Meltzer was covering the story in as factually correct a way as he possibly could. Meltzer has said many times that he honestly entered the situation without an opinion at all and that after talking to everyone involved, it was very clear that Bret's version of the events had full credibility while the company's side varied dramatically depending on who you talked to. This is just an opinion piece by Wade Keller. And surely you don't think Kevin Nash is more of a professional than Bret Hart?

God, please put Hart/Kid on DVD so more people can see that match and rave about it. It very well may be the most underappreciated classic of the 90s I've come across.

Quotes from Dave Meltzer on Wrestling Classics:

When Bret asked him to his face what was going on, Shawn said he had nothing to do with this and that he would not accept the title. He should apologize for lying to Bret to his face when he could have said, "Yes, I did it, and I shouldn't have, but I felt like I had to." Michaels also had plenty of history in not doing what his boss told him to do. The night before Montreal, Gerald Brisco was in his dressing room showing him how to protect himself if Bret started shooting on him. HHH was in on it too, for that matter. He told Julie face to face he knew nothing and then admitted years later that he did. Vince didn't make Austin step up and do it though, so I'm not sure the value in discussing that. Austin would have been just as much in the wrong as Michaels had he not leveled with Bret. The issue is not that Shawn orchestrated the whole thing, but rather that when he was asked man to man after the match, he lied to Bret and then proceeded to bury him on TV. If Chris Benoit, in 2005, can refuse to say anything negative and be allowed to do so, then Shawn Michaels in 1997 certainly could have. If he felt that strongly about it, he should have said, "Bret, you're dropping the title and that's final. If you don't like it or if you pull any shit, I will sue your ass off." Go to the ring. Do business. Had Bret acted unreasonably after that, the blame would be on him. Bret was the one who was told his contract was going to be intentionally breached. Bret was the one who was asked to pursue other options. Bret was the one who just 12 months earlier turned down more money because he felt he owed it to Vince. He was the only big name of his era who accepted less money to stay with Vince. Contractually, he was within his rights. Ethically, he was in his rights. Vince made that decision, not Bret. Bret was contractually obligated to the WWF through the December PPV in Springfield, MA. The chances of him bolting to WCW and coming out on Nitro with the WWF title are completely zilch. Bret had his own replica belt and never brought it out on Nitro even *after* Vince screwed him over, so no way he would have done it before that. And Bischoff would have accomodated him, in the same way he accomodated Kevin Nash in 1999 when he refused to insult the WWF on the air. Bret appeared on the first Nitro where he legally could appear, and that was on 12/15 -- 8 days after the DX PPV. Bret was scheduled to drop the title in the US to Shawn Michaels at the next PPV and there was absolutely no chance of him showing up on Nitro before that. He was still obligated to the WWF and WCW couldn't have put him on TV that early even if they would have wanted to do so. Bret showing up on Nitro with the belt was not a concern. Shawn lied to management that they were going to WCW without ever filling Marty in on this. He then went back to management and said Marty was still going, but that he decided to stay. Marty never negotiated with WCW, but Vince let him go. That was in the Shawn Michaels bio when he was inducted in the '03 Observer HOF. I can try to get that article posted here if at all possible. There's also at least one case of them showing up for a TV taping in 1990 while they were tag team partners completely bruised and battered because they had gotten in a fight with each other at a bar the night before.

I think those two guys are so disillusioned with WWE right now that it just adds to their frustration. I don't know if that applies to Benoit actually, but it almost certainly applies to Jericho. BTW, anything about whether or not he has re-signed, GH, and if so, for how long?

Threads like this really make me hate almost hate wrestling. I'm not sure where to begin. From a business perspective, that makes no sense. Who is that type of DVD going to appeal to? Bret Hart fans aren't going to want it, and non-Bret fans aren't going to want a Bret Hart DVD anyway. No wonder Bret still doesn't trust them - there's not a genuine bone in their bodies. This is why I laugh when people suggest Shawn Michaels is a changed man. He can attempt to mend fences with everyone from Marty Jannetty to Nick Bockwinkel. If he was a changed man, he would have called Bret Hart and apologized. He also would have refused to say anything negative about him since that wouldn't be very Christ-like. Hogan doesn't surprise me in the least. Lawler has no reason to be negative toward Hart and has even taken up for him in the past, but he's a total shill these days, so this doesn't surprise me either. Piper really surprises me, but then again, he shouldn't. He's the guy who accused Vince Russo of killing Owen Hart in TNA in an attempt to get over as a babyface. Good for Benoit. I do think things are still somewhat rough between Ross and Bret, but I also think Ross is the only person involved in all of this who feels any remorse for it, or at least it would appear that way. I doubt it'll make a difference, honestly. Where have we heard that before? Look for the DVD to come to a screeching halt when Shawn Michaels is on screen. "Ring the bell, damnit, ring the bell!" will close us out. But they know they have a bargaining chip (they being WWE) because of the other interview footage they did shoot. Good. It would only cheapen him. Hogan doesn't shoot about anything. Ever. So it doesn't surprise me. He even lies about things he has no reason to lie about. If Hulk Hogan tells you the sky is blue, it's purple. Good for him. I've read before that Bret took Waltman under his wing at one point early in his WWF tenure and that they used to travel together as well. Fuck Shawn Michaels. He's the same asshole he always was. Piper probably doesn't even know what a DVD is.

Bill Watts - Probably my very favorite booker ever. I think what I liked most about Watts was his ability to realize when something wasn't working and go in a different direction. He wasn't the type that was so stubborn that he'd stay with something because that's what *he* preferred -- he booked for his audience over himself. I liked the emphasis on hate with matches that played to the strengths of the performers. I'm not sure some of his tactics would work today though, as one of his strongest weapons in his position was fear. He could make someone like Kamala or Dusty Rhodes go out and have a ***+ match just by making it known that he wouldn't tolerate anyone half-assing on his shows. Top guys were credible ass-kickers and I've never seen a Mid South match with a poor layout at all. Time in WCW wasn't that great, but I think he felt he had to tear down some aspects of WCW before he could build them back up. When I read that really in-depth interview he did just after being fired in '93 (which I'll find and post eventually), he sounded like he definitely had the right idea. Wrestlers I think he could help meet their full potential include Chris Benoit, Eddy Guerrero, Sid Vicious, Bill Goldberg, Diamond Dallas Page, Bret Hart, Steve Austin and Chris Jericho. Now some of those guys *did* meet their full potential, but I think they all would have been fantastic under Watts because of what his style emphasizes and what he tends to bring out of people. He also had a way of appealing to female fans without alienating his core male fanbase that I don't think WWE quite understands today. Some of his ideas are a little dated, but he was never afraid to admit defeat, which makes him extremely rare. Fritz Von Erich - I think the talent carried WCCW more than the actual booking, as he booked more on nepotism than anyone. I think WCCW had more good-great trios and eight man tags than any American promotion in the 80s. Basically had one great idea and ran it into the ground, and was unable to build up new talent after the top guys he had ran their course. I also think he booked the NWA champ to look like a putz anytime they were in the territory, which pissed me off. Jerry Lawler - I don't know what parts of Memphis history were his booking and which ones aren't, but I do enjoy that vision of wrestling tremendously. It's not perfect, but I don't know that any style encompasses everything good about wrestling anyway. I like the emphasis on heat, and no one does cheap heat as well as Memphis. Lawler had a lot of longevity on top, but my big problem with Memphis is that if anyone ever would have come in and gotten over huge on the level of a Lawler or Dundee, I'm not sure they would have been pushed as the new ace. Dutch Mantell - Not familiar enough to really say. Jim Cornette - Really like his vision of what wrestling should be. He's basically the bastard stepchild of Memphis and Mid South.

I'll keep that in mind. Anyone who's willing and able to dub can get their stuff totally free I say, actually. If it turns out that more than, say, 20 people are wanting to participate by then, we'll look into doing it in "regional" form like DVDVR where you mail to the person who lives closest to you.

Well, there's also Brian, and by January, I'll be able to do it too. I have no problem running the first one by myself. I'll know after that if I need help or not and we can take it from there.

Part of the problem is that you have guys like AJ Styles who have potential to have major appeal, who's booked to win the World title and asks if he can lose it so he can go back to the X Division. I thought that was kind of a markish request. Hogan/Michaels are also 20+ year pros and Jeff Jarrett is the only guy on the TNA roster with that much experience, and we all know his story. Raven is a close second, and he's not someone who has ever been a consistent headliner in a national promotion. The type of Hogan/Michaels bond you described could take decades to create. I agree with a lot of what you said and agree that they need to put more focus in the storylines. Perhaps when they have national TV, they will do just that.

Lack of familiarity isn't the problem. The way they build and sustain heat is the problem, and spots that normally get a big pop in front of an American audience don't get one so much in front of a lucha audience. And not that I'm usually a mark for this sort of thing, but who are some of the stiffer guys in lucha who lay their stuff in?

Oh ok. Gotcha. Someone else besides Sek voted for '91 then.

Did you mean to vote for '88? You actually voted for '91.

It would be hilarious if they billed him as a former WWE tag champ.

That's good news. You know, when Crockett went national, the only guys he had from the start that had ever been seen nationally were Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes and Ole Anderson. Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, Midnight Express, Rock & Roll Express, Road Warriors and others were all new stars created through the exposure they got on TBS (the Roadies worked Georgia before, but this was their most successful period) and Crockett was a big success for the first two years or so because they were so fresh. So while having names around is a good thing, it's not necessary to have a roster full of over-the-hill WCW main eventers and WWE rejects to get recognition. I think they'll do just fine if they put out a consistently good product, especially with Spike pushing them hard.

I don't think we'll ever see Jarrett at that level again, considering that the Carters seem to be onto the game the Jarretts were playing with TNA early on, using the whole company as nothing more than a vehicle to make Jeff a star.

Shocker v Alex Shelley AJ Styles v Samoa Joe Christopher Daniels v Austin Aires Jerry Lynn v Sean Waltman AMW/Naturals v Team Canada Lance Hoyt v Abyss Raven/Sabu v Rhino/Jarrett Monty Brown/Kip James v Konnan/Ron Killings w/special ref BG James.. This has the potential, on paper, to be the best TNA show ever. We'll see how they do.

There's some IWC stuff I'm definitely wanting to track down at some point. Watched Ki/Homicide from Super Indy IV the other night and thought it was a pretty boring match, but I loved the commentary. Whoever their announcers are should be working for ROH.

It would be fantastic if you could send me that. I think I would appreciate what I'm watching now more.