Loss

Torch audio is worse. Dave is at least a walking encyclopedia. I usually enjoy WON audio as long as he is on it for that reason alone.

Great choice! Flair series, Garvin team and Murdoch match. Unfortunately, he worked a lot with Larry Z and they didn't click.

Rusev to me falls in the same category Earthquake, Big Boss Man, Umaga, Kamala, Mabel, Great Khali, King Kong Bundy and other monster heels in WWE history. What they all have in common is that they were built up strong for a big run on top, then when it was over, they cycled down. That's not a knock, it's just that he was plugged into a formula that probably goes back to the Vince Sr. days and has usually worked. I don't see him as a long term heel, but I do think he'll remain near the top, similar to all of them. Kevin Owens to me has more long term potential as a character. I don't think they are out to bury him. I think they just see it as a case where their work is done. His push was entirely to give Cena a Wrestlemania opponent. Now WM is over.

I feel like with the amount of talent on their roster and the amount of TV time they have to fill, not getting a 20 minute+ match between good workers every single week is pretty baffling.

Actually, a pattern I've noticed in 2015 Cena matches I've seen is that the crowd is with him more than they aren't until he starts with the five knuckle shuffle/you can't see me comeback. At that point, they usually turn on him. A lot of the backlash has subsided now that he is not the number one guy anymore, but some will always be there.

Possibly as Mortis, but the lisp made it pretty hard to take him seriously.

I love the springboard stunner.

I've found that I like to just watch and then think about why I liked it or didn't like it. So there is some working backwards.

To answer the topic question, yes. Other factors that need to be considered more are amount of local hype and TV penetration, results the last time they were in town (e.g. were there no-shows, false advertising or bad finishes that would make people stop coming?), population base, weather, the local economy (including competing local events, television programs), day of the week and the strength of the undercard. We know who drew and who didn't, and there has always been good factual discussion, but I think it's short-sighted to just say those who didn't draw didn't because they weren't as good at captivating people as those who did. A lot of it is time and place. I say that not to discount those who were successful, but just because I think there's value in looking at the entire picture when we have the amount of information available to us that we can.

WCW loved reinforcing the message that second-generation wrestlers were not to be trusted, be they Bret Hart, Curt Hennig or Jeff Jarrett. Someone in power in WCW thought Bagwell was a second generation wrestler, I think.

The clips show La Parka could have great main events, but did he ever work with anyone as lame as the unmotivated, over-the-hill crew that dominated WCW main events in '98 (add the word "heatless" when discussing 1999) and produce something good? Just a question.

Cena is already a heel when it's convenient. He has had some of his most memorable feuds with beloved babyfaces like The Rock, Shawn Michaels, CM Punk and Daniel Bryan.

"A top guy" and "the top guy" are two different things. No one has argued that he should take Hogan or Goldberg's spot. But that whole crew was pushed below guys like Lex Luger, Mongo, a washed up Curt Hennig and Barry Windham, Bagwell and Scott Steiner, and I can't find a good defense for that.

That was part of the wrestling audience then, just like it always has been. But WCW deliberately marketed to kids on college campuses (remember Nitro parties?) and they did market research that showed a significant part of their fanbase were hardcore sports fan types.

"Well, Rock is on that channel, so I guess I better either quit watching wrestling or get with the times." Honestly, if wrestling can't survive minorities on top, then it deserves to die.

I think the issue was less that he was Mexican and more that he was typecast. Sometimes people overcome that type of thing but it's an uphill battle. I do agree that the company wasn't going to push a Hispanic wrestler in a top position in 1998 since WCW was run by racists, but I think the jury is out on if fans would have accepted it. It was never tried, so we don't know. Regardless of the quality of his work, Konnan is the first guy that comes to mind for that spot though.

I don't think La Parka would have been effective on top either, but his ethnicity isn't the reason. Just to confirm, are you saying that wrestling fans wouldn't accept a Mexican on top, or that promoters wouldn't push a Mexican on top? I'll also add that he's actually very much a heavyweight. He worked so well with the smaller guys that it was easy to forget that he towered over them.

In 1998, it would have taken really careful booking for any of them to work on top, but it would have made a huge difference. By 1999, anti-WCW sentiment was so strong that even if they were trying to build new stars at that point, they were already in the mode that dying wrestling companies often find themselves: Everything wrong is wrong, and everything right is somehow wrong too. I still think Jericho was the guy WWE should have anointed to carry wrestling post-Austin/Rock, but it needed to happen in WWE. He was a better fit there and that's where he ended up. Benoit actually drew some pay-per-view buys opposite Rock in 2000 that were higher than some of the Rock-HHH buys, so there's evidence that even if he wasn't going to be a big business mover, he wouldn't be embarrassing in the spot or anything. On top of that, I think Benoit was probably more over in WCW than he ever was in WWE. At the very least, most of those guys should have at least been feuding with the 80s holdover types like Lex Luger and Scott Steiner, and probably going over them. 1998 WCW needed to be even more about Goldberg than it was. Probably 1999 and beyond too. Goldberg wasn't just over, he was Next Hulk Hogan-level over, and he was coming along at just the right time.

It's true. John Cena has been the top babyface and the top heel for a decade.

I think figuring out what makes a match good or bad is more of an art than a science, and I also think it's a platform where the opposite of one profound truth can be another profound truth. Rules can be broken in a way that works just as often as rules can be broken in a way that's a disaster. There is more to it than "I like what I like", because there are some matches I can acknowledge as great that I still don't really love, just like there are matches I wouldn't argue as good that I enjoy anyway. At the same time, we're all shaped by our viewing experiences, personal tastes and other eclectic tendencies, and those things will influence all of our opinions. That's probably true of any medium. I like to use Manami Toyota in this example. Her in-ring style is not my favorite in-ring style by any means, and there are matches where I can't deny the greatness, but also can't bring myself to watch again. But regardless of my quirks, Manami Toyota was in many ways a trailblazer. She was an incredible athlete and figured out a unique style that would get her over as different than those surrounding her. She has also done such off-the-wall things that I don't recall anyone else ever even trying to do like wrestle 30 matches in 30 minutes. She even attempted a sixty-minute sprint with Kyoko Inoue, and that's a divisive match to say the least, but it was so gutsy to even try it. She has been cited as an influence by everyone from Rey Mysterio to Cesaro. She was part of two of the greatest matches I've ever seen (interpromotional tags at Dream Rush and Dream Slam 2) and was a key component of both of those matches. They would not have been as great without her. Is Manami Toyota one of my 20 favorite wrestlers? No way. Is Manami Toyota a flawed wrestler? In more ways than I care to describe at the moment. Is Manami Toyota someone I'd consider one of the 20 greatest wrestlers ever? Without a doubt.

Not the same sort of match, no, nor should he.

How would Bret have worked Summerslam 2014? I can't see him letting Brock gobble him up like that, or even like he did at Extreme Rules for that matter. That's not a criticism, but I am just not sure how he would work with someone like that. Obviously, he'd have great matches with Punk and Bryan, and most likely Umaga. Cena arguably had better matches with Shawn than Bret did when Shawn was past his prime, and I can't see him not having great matches with Steve Austin and Owen Hart. I do think the Cena-Lesnar series is a strong tipping point in Cena's favor. Bret's closest equivalent is the Diesel series, I guess.

Any chance we could get a mega list at some point of all the must-see stuff from this era? Not just for great matches that hold up for now, but for fully understanding the era. I was a fan, but I was dead broke and could only watch wrestling if it was free on TV, so I sadly missed all of it.

We can keep it as it is for now.

Looking forward to listening to these this week, but I'll leave this here for now. Do I remember right that around this time, Barry married a rich heiress and didn't have to wrestle anymore, which killed some of his drive?