Loss
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Talk about it here. -
Talk about it here.
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To be fair, that was my reaction until I saw the clip, that it seemed awfully calculated and manipulative. It didn't settle right with me because I thought it cheapened the difficulty and fear often associated with the coming out process. When I saw the clip, my reaction changed somewhat, and I realized I needed to get over myself.
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As much as I hate it, I still think one of the key things in wrestling's late 90s resurgence was brightening the lights in the arena and giving fans in attendance an opportunity to be on television. I hate it aesthetically, but it's something both the WWF and WCW encouraged among ticket buyers, and it's why some of that stuff still lingers today. I do think it's one of a zillion factors that eventually made it much harder for wrestlers to get heat. There is an interesting column about all of this for sure. "What?" falls in there somewhere too.
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Yeah, it's not something I'm absolutist about and it's something that could evolve over time. I'm not even sure I'm "right" (if there is a right and wrong). It's where I am with watching wrestling right now. I agree with Matt that the variety of approaches makes the discussion interesting. HHH vs Bryan is the perfect example. I've seen it argued reasonably in both directions that both HHH was the one that made the match great, and also that Bryan was the one who made the match great. I'm certainly interested in such discussions. Where I struggle is in comparing two wrestlers who are roughly on par in terms of longevity, career output and peak performance. I think in the past I tackled these things like I was on a mission to find the truth, whatever that may be. That at the end of the discussion, we're going to find the right answer. I'm trying to let go of that. I will say as a credit to both Dylan and Matt that neither strike me as the type that is trying to work toward a correct answer when we talk about this philosophical stuff. They're just throwing a point of view out there. At least in the past, they've probably had a better understanding than me that trying to work toward a consensus is often pointlessly frustrating and impossible. And while a lot of people have dropped off the message boards, you could argue that wrestling talk is way more interesting now that there's less consensus building than ever.
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Wrestlespective: Vader v. Hogan at SuperBrawl 5
Loss replied to Jason Mann's topic in Publications and Podcasts
I'm halfway through and it's a great show so far. I just wanted to add a few things: (1) Vader didn't win with the splash in WCW. It was a highspot he used mid-match, but he didn't beat anyone with it. (2) They were pushing on TV that Flair and Vader were still enemies based on the 1993 feud. However, the day before the show, Flair did say that as the only guy in WCW that had faced both of them, Vader was going to destroy Hogan. Flair wasn't being pushed as a total OTT heel in retirement until he interfered at the finish. (3) Fans at the time were thrilled to see Flair back and involved in something since WCW was so dismal without him. I'm curious why you are guys are down on his presence. If this is talked about more in the second half of the show, feel free to just say "Listen to the second half of the show." -
I'm afraid this is going to open a big can of worms but I'll say it anyway. I'm trying to move away from thinking about great wrestlers, or at the very least, focus on it far less since there are so many variables that are mere guesswork. I realize when discussing this stuff you can never get away from it 100%, but I hope with time it's something I think less and less about. I may see a wrestler in lots of great matches, but I don't know enough to say who is contributing what in those matches since I've never been trained as a worker. I can guess, but I could be way off, and great wrestling is sometimes about making you think someone is great who isn't. I am a wrestling fan that knows the difference between a good match and a bad match though. I want to focus on the message (the match) not the messenger (the wrestlers). I've touched on this before, but I'm more comfortable discussing the meal that I get to eat than the chefs who prepared it.
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Of course, nothing Bobby or Dusty ever did at the booth was nearly as infuriating as Curt Hennig calling the AJW match at Survivor Series '95.
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WCW did a better job than any US promotion has in the modern era of pushing juniors for sure. But even before '98, there were things like the Rey/Syxx matches which see Rey get squashed repeatedly by Hall, Nash and Syxx with no retribution. Similar things happened with Juventud Guerrera. His debut saw Gene Okerlund yelling at him for having bad English. The announcers also used Tenay as a crutch instead of being expected to learn how to call their matches. And actually, crossing over to the US and TV titles was a Terry Taylor move. And yes, it fell off the rails in '99, as did the entire promotion.
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I think WCW forever ruined the label "cruiserweight". It's now something people see as little guys who can't hang with the real stars. Unless they plan on pushing them as something nearly equal instead of as a separate midcard division, I have no interest in seeing it.
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HHH used to be really high on Bourne too from my understanding, so he had to put in some work to undo the goodwill.
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I don't even disagree with him on that point. My problem is that he knows the wrestlers are powerless on this issue, yet he still places the blame on them.
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Talk about it here.
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Pedro Morales defends the Intercontinental Title. Talk about it here.
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Talk about it here.
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Talk about it here.
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Talk about it here.
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Talk about it here.
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Talk about it here.
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Talk about it here.
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Talk about it here.
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I think the live stream should be 80% stream of consciousness clips. Almost like Liquid Television. People start watching then lose track of time because they have no idea what is going to pop up next.
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I know this is grossly more exaggerated than what Dave reported, but my takeaway from Vince being down on every recent callup is that Dunn and HHH are in a political war that HHH is losing at the moment.
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I will also add that Vince always seems down on almost everyone. He's kind of grumpy.
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I still don't understand what exactly Adam Rose did to be deemed a failure. What type of immediate crowd reaction were they expecting?