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Yeah, I was mentioning the same thing to Bix. Maybe he's been bummed out by the fact that's it's 10 years since the death of WCW/ECW and it's hit him how badly the business has contracted since then especially in comparison with UFC? Listening to Dave you'd think WWE is beyond hope, yet alone TNA.

Just take Shawn for example, all these co main events/real main events get ignored by such a listing: 3/20/94 Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (Ladder) ***** 4/2/95 Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel **** 7/23/95 Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett ****1/2 8/27/95 Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (Ladder) ****3/4 2/18/96 Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart **** 6/9/97 Shawn Michaels vs. Steve Austin **** 8/25/02 Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (Street Fight) ****1/4 4/3/05 Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle ****3/4 4/2/06 Shawn Michaels vs. Vince McMahon (No Holds Barred) ***1/2 3/30/08 Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels ***1/2 9/7/08 Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (Unsanctioned) ****1/4 4/5/09 Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels ****3/4 8/23/09 Shawn Michaels/Triple H vs. Ted DiBiase/Cody Rhodes ***1/2 Right there, there's 10 extra ****+ matches that probably should have been included.

Edge's ***+ career history, according to this archive of Dave Meltzer star ratings (PPV main events bolded): 7/25/99 Jeff Jarrett vs. Edge *** 8/22/99 Edge/Christian vs. Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy ***1/4 10/17/99 Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy vs. Edge/Christian (Ladder) ****1/2 11/14/99 Hardcore Holly/Crash Holly/Brian Christopher/Scott Taylor vs. Edge/Christian/Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy (Elimination) *** 2/27/00 Edge/Christian vs. Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy *** 4/2/00 Edge/Christian vs. Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy vs. Bubba Ray Dudley/D-Von Dudley (Ladder) **** 4/30/00 Edge/Christian vs. X-Pac/Road Dogg *** 5/6/00 Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy vs. Edge/Christian *** 8/27/00 Edge/Christian vs. Bubba Ray Dudley/D-Von Dudley vs. Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy (Tables, Ladders & Chairs) ****1/2 9/24/00 Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy vs. Edge/Christian (Cage) ***1/2 4/1/01 Edge/Christian vs. Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy vs. Bubba Ray Dudley/D-Von Dudley (Tables, Ladders & Chairs) ****3/4 5/5/01 Edge/Christian vs. X-Pac/Justin Credible vs. Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy vs. Bubba Ray Dudley/D-Von Dudley *** 5/20/01 Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho vs. Acolytes vs. Bubba Ray Dudley/D-Von Dudley vs. Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy vs. Edge/Christian vs. X-Pac/Justin Credible (Gauntlet) ***1/2 5/24/01 Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho vs. Bubba Ray Dudley/D-Von Dudley vs. Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy vs. Edge/Christian (Tables, Ladders & Chairs) ****3/4 6/24/01 Edge vs. Kurt Angle *** 8/19/01 Edge vs. Lance Storm ***1/4 9/23/01 Christian vs. Edge *** 10/21/01 Edge vs. Christian (Ladder) ***3/4 11/3/01 Edge vs. Christian (Cage) ***1/4 11/18/01 Edge vs. Test ***1/2 4/21/02 Kurt Angle vs. Edge ****1/4 5/19/02 Edge vs. Kurt Angle (Hair vs. Hair) ****1/2 5/30/02 Kurt Angle vs. Edge (Cage) ****1/4 7/25/02 Edge vs. Chris Jericho (Cage) **** 8/25/02 Edge vs. Eddy Guerrero ***1/4 9/22/02 Eddy Guerrero vs. Edge ***3/4 9/26/02 Edge vs. Eddy Guerrero (No DQ) ****1/2 10/3/02 Edge vs. Kurt Angle ****1/4 10/20/02 Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit vs. Edge/Rey Mysterio ****3/4 10/26/02 Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman vs. Edge ***1/2 10/31/02 Edge vs. Chris Benoit ***3/4 11/7/02 Edge/Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit (2/3 falls) **** 11/17/02 Eddy Guerrero/Chavo Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit vs. Edge/Rey Mysterio ***1/2 12/5/02 Kurt Angle vs. Edge vs. Chris Benoit vs. Eddy Guerrero (Elimination) ****1/2 12/26/02 Eddy Guerrero/Chavo Guerrero vs. Billy Kidman/Edge ***3/4 1/16/03 Chris Benoit/Edge vs. Kurt Angle/Shelton Benjamin/Charlie Haas **** 1/30/03 Chris Benoit/Edge vs. Shelton Benjamin/Charlie Haas ***1/2 4/26/04 Chris Benoit/Edge vs. Ric Flair/Batista ***3/4 5/17/04 Chris Benoit/Edge vs. Randy Orton/Batista **** 6/14/04 Chris Benoit/Edge/Chris Jericho vs. Ric Flair/Randy Orton/Batista (Elimination) ***1/4 7/11/04 Randy Orton vs. Edge ****1/4 7/19/04 Edge vs. Randy Orton **** 8/2/04 Chris Benoit/Edge/Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton/Ric Flair/Batista ****1/4 8/9/04 Edge vs. Chris Jericho ***1/2 11/14/04 Chris Jericho/Randy Orton/Chris Benoit/Maven vs. Triple H/Batista/Edge/Gene Snitsky (Elimination) ***1/4 11/29/04 Triple H vs. Edge vs. Chris Benoit ***3/4 12/13/04 Edge vs. Randy Orton ***1/2 1/9/05 Triple H vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho vs. Edge vs. Batista vs. Chris Benoit (Elimination Chamber) ****1/4 1/24/05 Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho/Shawn Michaels vs. Tyson Tomko/Christian/Edge ***1/2 1/30/05 Shawn Michaels vs. Edge ***1/4 2/21/05 Edge/Christian vs. Randy Orton/Shawn Michaels **** 2/28/05 Edge vs. Shawn Michaels (Street Fight) ***3/4 3/21/05 Shelton Benjamin/Chris Jericho vs. Edge/Christian ***1/2 3/28/05 Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho/Shelton Benjamin vs. Tyson Tomko/Christian/Edge ***1/2 4/3/05 Edge vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Kane vs. Chris Jericho vs. Christian (Ladder) ****1/2 4/4/05 Edge vs. Chris Benoit **** 5/1/05 Chris Benoit vs. Edge (Last Man Standing) **** 5/2/05 Edge vs. Chris Jericho ***1/2 5/9/05 Edge vs. Shawn Michaels ***1/4 9/18/05 Matt Hardy vs. Edge (Cage) ****1/4 10/3/05 Matt Hardy vs. Edge (Ladder) ***1/2 1/16/06 Edge vs. Ric Flair (Tables, Ladders and Chairs) **** 4/2/06 Mick Foley vs. Edge (Hardcore) **** 4/30/06 John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge ****1/4 6/25/06 Rob Van Dam vs. Edge ***1/2 8/20/06 Edge vs. John Cena (Title Can Change Hands on DQ) ***3/4 9/17/06 John Cena vs. Edge (Tables, Ladders, and Chairs) ****1/4 10/2/06 John Cena vs. Edge (Cage) ***3/4 12/4/06 Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy/Shawn Michaels/Triple H vs. Randy Orton/Edge/Joey Mercury/Johnny Nitro *** 12/11/06 Ric Flair/Triple H/Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton/Edge/Kenny ***1/4 12/18/06 Edge vs. John Cena ***/14 1/7/07 Shawn Michaels/Triple H vs. Edge/Randy Orton ***3/4 1/22/07 Shawn Michaels vs. Edge (Street Fight) **** 2/16/07 Batista/Undertaker vs. Edge/Randy Orton ***1/4 2/19/07 Edge vs. Rob Van Dam ***1/2 4/1/07 Mr. Kennedy vs. Edge vs. Jeff Hardy vs. King Booker vs. Randy Orton vs. Matt Hardy vs. CM Punk vs. Finlay (Ladder) ****1/4 4/29/2007 John Cena vs. Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Edge ****1/2 4/30/2007 Edge vs. Randy Orton ****1/4 6/2/2007 Chris Benoit/Batista vs. Edge/MVP *** 6/3/2007 Edge vs. Batista (Cage) ***1/2 6/8/2007 Edge vs. Chris Benoit **** 6/15/07 Edge vs. Ric Flair ***1/4 6/22/07 Ric Flair/Batista vs. Edge/MVP ***1/2 12/16/07 Undertaker vs. Batista vs. Edge *** 1/27/08 Rey Mysterio vs. Edge ***1/4 3/30/08 Edge vs. Undertaker ****1/4 4/25/08 Edge vs. CM Punk ***1/4 4/27/08 Undertaker vs. Edge ***1/2 5/18/08 Edge vs. Undertaker ***1/2 6/1/2008 The Undertaker vs. Edge (Tables, Ladders, Chairs) ***1/2 6/29/08 Batista vs. Edge ***1/2 7/20/08 Triple H vs. Edge ***1/2 8/2/08 Jeff Hardy vs. Edge ***1/2 8/17/08 Edge vs. Undertaker ****1/2 (Hell in a Cell) 12/14/08 Edge vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H **** 1/25/09 Edge vs. Jeff Hardy ***3/4 2/15/09 Edge vs. Triple H vs. Undertaker vs. Big Show vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Kozlov (Elimination Chamber) ****1/4 2/15/09 John Cena vs. Edge vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Mike Knox (Elimination Chamber) ****1/4 2/20/09 Edge vs. Jeff Hardy ***1/2 3/2/09 Edge vs. John Cena *** 4/5/09 Edge vs. Big Show vs. John Cena ***1/4 4/6/09 John Cena/CM Punk/Jeff Hardy/Ricky Steamboat/Rey Mysterio vs. Edge/Big Show/Matt Hardy/Chris Jericho/Kane ***1/2 4/26/09 John Cena vs. Edge (Last Man Standing) ****1/2 5/17/09 Jeff Hardy vs. Edge ***3/4 6/7/09 Jeff Hardy vs. Edge (Ladder) ****1/4 6/15/09 CM Punk vs. Edge vs. Jeff Hardy ***3/4 3/28/10 Chris Jericho vs. Edge **** 4/25/10 Edge vs. Chris Jericho (Cage) ***1/2 6/20/10 Sheamus vs. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton *** 7/18/10 The Miz vs. Evan Bourne vs. Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry vs. Chris Jericho vs. Edge vs. Ted DiBiase vs. John Morrison **** 7/19/10 Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho vs. Edge **** 8/15/10 John Cena/Chris Jericho/Edge/John Morrison/Bret Hart/R-Truth/Daniel Bryan vs. Wade Barrett/Michael Tarver/Heath Slater/Darren Young/David Otunga/Justin Gabriel/Skip Sheffield (Elimination) ***1/2 9/19/10 Randy Orton vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Wade Barrett vs. John Cena vs. Sheamus (Elimination) ***1/2 12/19/10 Alberto Del Rio vs. Edge vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio (TLC) ****1/4

What extra revenue? I think the cost of producing TV for a cable network was a drain on resources that they didn't make up through increased revenue elsewhere. I get the sense that Paul Heyman saw Rob Van Dam as his Austin/Goldberg and that he was the only guy he couldn't afford to have leave the company.

Dave Meltzer even mentioned him as a possible WWE Hall Of Fame inductee down the line in last week's Observer, which to me suggests a further softening on Vince's stance towards Savage.

To get back to the subject at hand, perhaps the dumbest aspect of all this, which is saying a lot, is booking Jake Roberts to judge wrestling matches during a three day Beerfest.

Yeah, I saw a Bad Boy Hido semifinal tag match in a warehouse in Shinkiba that was a blast live with the guys from Real In Memphis before the NOAH Dome show in 2005.

TNA invites Spike TV executives to an ECW nostalgia show in all but name to blow them away with the crowd reactions and possibly prove that they don't need Paul Heyman.

It's not the first time Dave has said that, seems to be a reoccurring theme whenever Ali vs. Inoki comes up.

One of the problems with the WM19 match was that the significance of it (Austin's last real match) wasn't really known at the time, as they kept that very quiet from fans.

Except Wade Keller, who once said: "One Man Gang may be the worst in-ring worker I have ever seen. His offense lacked credibility, he didn't sell well, and he had no charisma."

Ugh, Sean Morley milking his colleagues deaths for speaking engagements.

Yeah, that's what Dave was talking about. I think DVR only increased their Monday Night ratings by a very small amount, around 5-8%.

What Johnny Sorrow is talking about: I guess S.L.L.'s More Wrestling Than Wrestling columns for Cageside Seats were far more ahead of the curve than even we could have possibly dreamt of.

Shakes head at Dave and Bryan giving this the time of day on their radio show.

I think Dave was playing Larry Matysik's devil's advocate in that thread, as Larry placed great stock on being able to get over in multiple territories and being genuinely tough (Larry relaying a story about thinking that Shawn Michaels was a wuss after he saw him bitch to the road agents about being busted up hardway was a hoot).

John, there's lots of joy still to be had from Brock’s TV director and promo coach Wile E. Heyman surely devising the greatest angle in TUF history.

I don't think Jeff's currently on Death Watch. He's clearly far from sober, but he isn't quite as messed up as he was in the past (end of his first WWE run to the time he returned). A lot of that is due to TNA's much more lax drug policy allowing him to work while pretty messed up. He'd get another chance if he could piss clean for them. I mean WWE was still interested in him after he was busted for drugs and were making WrestleMania plans for him before he returned to TNA. I doubt they'd be quite as high on him today, but they'd probably still risk it due to their dearth of main event talent.

Both Hardys will almost certainly be back at some point. Either they get fed up of TNA, TNA gets fed up of them or the Carters give up and sell their promotion to the McMahons to recoup some of their losses.

I like Dave including plenty of wrestlers who aren't even in his Hall Of Fame in his list of doom. I guess Lawler is a borderline Hall Of Famer now.

Part of the problem is that it's a bit late now to start thinking of storylines when you've already lost your fanbase and thus mustn't be satisfying that niche well enough: Show 1 Philadelpha: 785 paid, over 800 in the building Show 2 Chicago: 550 fans Show 3 Philadelphia: 550 fans Show 4 Chicago: 450 fans Shows 5, 6 Phoenix: 450 fans, 500 fans (roughly half of what ROH drew) Shows 7, 8 Ontario: 200 fans, 500 fans Show 9 Philadelphia: 800 fans (up for Danielson's return) Shows 10, 11 Chicago/Milwaukee: (500 fans, 200 fans sold out, even with Danielson) Shows 12, 13 MA/NJ: Both shows drew 250-300 fans Part of the problem was building around indy guys that you haven't got under contract and them leaving at short notice (like Danielson, Generation Me and Davey Richards). Part of the problem is that most of Sapolsky's storylines and other attempts to attract fans outside their niche haven't been all that good and some have been tone deaf (like Kendrick "shooting" on the mic in show 3, bringing in Tommy Dreamer, the insertion of Americans into the Dragon Gate factions have been convoluted and ham fisted, etc). Part of the problem is pushing local indy guys so hard, when ticket prices are jacked up compared to other indies. Part of the problem is that for a company that markets itself on star ratings, they haven't delivered enough of them, as they haven't produced a match that was pimped as a MOTYC for quite some time.

Jerry McDevitt and Mike Benoit continue their feud in Dave Meltzer's Wrestling Observer Newsletter

To be fair, Dave and Bryan on their radio show reviewing the ROH Final Battle PPV were critical of Steen and Generico for taking too many needless risks in their blow off match. But it still seems like ROH sort of gets a pass for this because they have logical booking and push athletic wrestling.

I bet Chael wins. Regarding most disgusting promotional tactic I guess Rob Terry's one off unprotected chair shot to the head wins given how much Bryan Alvarez has harped on about it, which would be ironic given the similar risks performers in other promotions like ROH and AAA take. Me, I'd probably vote for The hypocrisy of TNA: "Help us put a stop to homophobic bullying while we promote an evil depraved bisexual character."

I'm not sure I fully buy that argument. Take JBL's push in 2004, for example. They revamped his character, gave him the hard push and he cut some great promos, but it took him ages to be accepted by the fans as a guy who deserved to be in the mix on top, and even then he wasn't accepted to the level that fresher guys like Batista, Randy Orton and John Cena were. Matt Hardy's got that cult following that WWE should have capitalised on years ago, but that time has passed and he's now a broken down shell of his former self, both physically and mentally. The same applies to Shane Helms, except he's a guy I don't think the fans would have ever accepted as a serious headliner. I won't disagree with Christian, he deserves his shot and is someone Vince McMahon has a real blind spot about, but by and large I think WWE is wise to choose guys who aren't typecast as career midcarders and ground down by many years on the WWE treadmill to give their new main event pushes too.