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El Dandy vs. Emilio Charles Jr - EMLL - Hair vs. Hair - 7-28-89 Another decent wager match that has a surprise ending I didnt see coming or thought would stick as the final decision. Outside of that, a decent fight that sees both guys attacking each other, biting, and brawling..all good signs in this fight. Charles and Dandy are both great high flyers for their sizes (this is my first time seeing Charles and only my second or third seeing Dandy in Mexico), and Charles' frog splash / big splash is awesome to watch...really enjoy the third fall in these match types where each guy throws everything at the wall to try and get the final pin and the win, but watching several wager matches in a row, the act starts to get very repetitive, but I get it for each match as a standalone as each guy is trying HARD to put the other away after a long fight and lots of bloodloss. So throwing it all out there and trying pin after pin makes tons of sense in each scenario. Heavy Metal vs. El Hijo Del Santo - WWA Welterweight TItle - 8-13-93 These two looked to have had a bunch of title matches in 93, and I think I will check more of them out. This one appears to be their second, with the first in May of 93, unless I am wrong. Good technical mat wrestling to start things up through the first fall and part of the second, before it breaks down into more of an aerial match with each guy trying to hit some big moves, with both seeing some success, but Santo coming out the better. Good false ending, leads to an extra fall that finally sees a winner.

Cant answer the last few years in WWE / North America....but my guess would be ladder matches would be better just for the spectacle as I cant imagine either being as good as they used to be...Man, I am starting to age with lines like that!

Ugh, the your mentioning the referee immediately took me to the Starrcade 83 cage match and Kiniski being ALL OVER the match and completely ruining it. And I agree when the refs get too involved, it can ruin things, as its a cage match...ANYTHING GOES...why is the ref even breaking holds? But the cage matches where the ref does his job right are the best to me, with the pin / submission stipulation. As for the escape the cage rules, I get the heel trying to run out or dive out while the face hangs on trying to drag him in, but I dont get the face doing the same thing mid-match. The face is in there to get his revenge on the heel most times, to settle up on something done to them. They shoudnt want to crawl out just getting out of the heels grasp, they should be kicking the shit out of the heel until he's beaten down and cant come back, before leaving victorious. At least that should be the face's goal. If during the battle, both men are beaten down and the face crawls out as both men are completely spent, then I get it. But watching a face leave the cage as the heel is diving at them or trying to beat them to the door as they climb over the cage kind of kills the story. What do you consider modern in terms of years? I cant commment too much post 2009 as I haven'treally watched to much stuff post then.

YES!! Getting some full Bock title defenses would be worth a month's price alone.... Dusty vs. Bock JYD vs Bock Wrestling II vs. Bock Chavo Sr vs Bock Hansen vs. Bock in June 86, right before Hansen drops title

Perro Aguayo vs Sangre Chicana - Hair vs. Hair - 8/28/86 Really enjoyed this fight from the start to the end. These two went at it tooth and nail and gave it all they had. LOVED seeing the crowd go scurrying away when one of them went for the suicide dive outside the ring. Some nasty bumps taken by both into the seating area. Hard to tell from the video but it looked like Chicana was a bloody mess (man, I wish I could have seen it clearer) and Perro had some of Chicana's blood on him, but didnt appear to be bleeding. The last few minutes of Perro trying everything to pin Chicana for the third fall (including a pile driver), with Chicana slipping in a pin attempt here and there while clearly spent and out of gas was awesome. The crowd was hot as hell, cheering for both guys at different points, with the Chicana cheers much more audible. Loved the ending to after all that happened in the previous 5-6 min to Chicana... Great stuff overall, and just making me a bigger and bigger fan of Lucha.

Nothing tops a cage match (Cyclone Fence Cage, either around the ring or Cell style) with pin / submission rules. Its the ultimate feud ended, the place to go to finalize a war and find out who truly is the better man. No one comes in, no one gets out, just a fight to see who's the best. So to me, Cage matches are far superior to ladder matches.4 Escape rules cage matches arent nearly as good in my opinion but are still decent and better than modern ladder matches as you still have the cage fight. But I think the idea of beating your opponent until they arent able to stop you from leaving is a lost science in these. For years now, there have been too many of escape rules matches where the loser isnt beat up and defeated, but got kicked off or kicked his opponent out the door for a victory, leaving the loser just having bad luck and standing in the ring angry, and not beaten down, unable to continue. That is the way I'd like to see escape rules matches, both guys spent and beaten and one has just a little more than the other to get out, or the other scenario where revenge is taken and the winner (who had been attacked / beaten / cost something) gets his revenge in convincing fashion leaving his opponent down and out while he steps out of the ring victorious.... I think ladder matches could be done really well, but have become spot fests now, and the slow climbs and sometimes waiting for the other guy to catch you takes my enjoyment away from the match itself and I find myself trying HARD not to see how bad it looks when that happens. Older ladder matches are still really good (Mania X / Summerslam 98 / others) where the ladder wasnt used as a diving board, but more as just a weapon when needed in the middle of a fight and then used to climb and get the title. But even those suffer from some of the waiting moments.

Holy shit, thanks guys....this is the stuff I was lookin for... I have the 80's set, thanks OJ for pointing out the title matches. Gonna go through that Lucha list and Cubsfan sites this weekend and see what I can find...

Thanks a ton Matt and Goc...I will go through those... I can find a ton of matches with El Dandy and others, but hard to tell when looking if its a title match or not, which is why I was looking for specific matches...this a good start...appreciate it.

Hey guys, Wanna give a shout out to you for another amazing show. I love Between the Sheets as it usually gets me to and from work for 3-4 days each week. Dont dare make these any shorter, shit, make em longer and more detailed...

I have become really into Lucha wrestling over the last couple weeks, but going through lists and such, its easy to find which matches are the Wager matches (which I have loved to watch), but most lists I see dont mention if a match is a title match and I'd like to watch a bunch of those due to the difference in styles detailed in a few podcasts. The only title match I have seen so far on my dive into Lucha was Blue Panther vs. Atlantis from 91 and I really enjoyed it. I would love to have some 80's - 90's title matches recommended. So what should I track down / watch?

World Class was CRAZY for not putting them vs. Kerry and Kevin in late 1985, early 86 and doing anything to keep them around in WCCW instead of keeping them mid-card vs. Fants (which was great to) and then letting them go to Crockett... World Class in 86 could have been very different and kept the hot ride going...Cornette in a main event feud in Dallas? Awesome Easy Top 5 team.

Mid-South era Butch Reed kicks 10 kinds of ass....he is awesome on soo many levels whether heel or face... Gonna check out the 3 matches vs. Neidhart this weekend. Just watched their cage match where they lose the titles and started their break-up... Butch Reed is great.....period.

That's not the 57 min Murdoch vs. Reed match is it? I'm pretty sure the match you're thinking of is from Oklahoma City, 9/22/85. Thanks Tabe, that is on one of the Mid-South house shows...I am gonna hunt it down from there..

That's not the 57 min Murdoch vs. Reed match is it?

Embry's Puerto Rico matches I have watched are top notch, so I agree 100% with Dylan there.... But what makes Embry for me is his Dallas run..His 1989 run stands on its own as being classic and amazing with so much good shit happening weekly and him putting on good to great TV matches with various opponents...even into 90 and 91, he's great...The Akbar feud is one of my top 3 or 4 feuds of all time and has highlight after highlight in it during its run and it brought Dallas back to life. He made people forget about all the issues with the Von Erichs, pushed that all aside and had a damn fine run on top against all of Devastation Inc. What is a little underrated, to me, is his work pre-89 in Dallas, 87-88 timeframe. The promotion was dead, but he was a cocky arrogant prick that just seemed to sleazy and was a breath of fresh air in those times. His light heavyweight matches with Shaun Simpson arent half bad and I even enjoyed his tag run with Frankie Lancaster, all due to Embry being the sleazy, pudgy dude you wanted to knock the shit out of, while watching him sneak his way to tag titles, and singles titles...

These two are probably my favorite team of the early - mid 80's in AJPW. Great matches with a ton of people. The Choshu / Yatsu series alone puts them high with me. Plus they had good stuff with the Road Warriors / Yatsu - Khan / Hansen - Dibiase and others. Great team. With so many great teams, they may not make the Top 25 but I think they deserved to be discussed. I see they had a match vs, Nikita Koloff and Krusher Kruschev...gonna check that one out and see how they handle those two....

Tonight I finished Jumbo's run as champ, as we head back to Japan for his last defenses Jumbo © vs. Nick Bockwinkel - 3-24-84 - Japan - Nick gets another shot at the belt he lost a month earlier and then was in the DCO with Jumbo in the immediate rematch. Of their three AWA title matches in Feb / Mar 84 in Japan, this is the best outside the finish, but the finish works here as we go from a technical mat match to an all out fight at the end that sees Bock hit Jumbo with the AWA title and Jumbo goes nuts minutes later doing the same to Nick and anyone else around until the fight is on.... Jumbo © vs Greg Gagne - 4-19-84 - Japan - This match again shows how good Greg was in a technical, wrestling match. I really enjoyed this and shows that Greg could go in the ring and not just in tags. Better than most of his AWA singles matches I have seen and WAY better than anything in his mid-85 - 89 run...Didnt make the AWA DVDVR Set, so I guess others didnt like it as much, but I thought it was better than the US Brunzell match, but I can see it not being everyone's cup of tea due to so much mat work and long holds. Jumbo © vs Jim Brunzell - 4-26-84 - Japan - Enjoyed this one much better than their US match as once they got going, it was decent. I still dont like the match-up of these two...THis one however ended once it started to get good. Jumbo's next defense on tape I know of is Martel's title win, which I've watched a few times so am skipping this time... For all of Jumbo's defenses, I'd say my top 2 were Jumbo vs. Billy Robinson and Jumbo vs. Bock III (3/84) Off to Puerto Rico next for some blood and guts....

Thanks! Embry is one of the guys I had thought of doing a write-up for and actually did some prep work for it when I was putting out the feud write-ups in this thread. If I can get some time in the coming weeks I'll see if i can do it. Great to hear...really looking forward to it... Watched the Colon / Valentine 1991 Cage Match last night and holy shit did I love it...just a fight...no frills, no holds, just a blood bath in a cage. Valentine still had the goods for a dog fight in 91 that's for sure and LOTS of blood made it even better. Ending was bad, but that ending happens a lot in cage matches...Still getting more and more into WWC, but its different (at least in this match, not sure if they all are) how the cage isnt right up against the ropes like you'd see in Crockett / AWA / WWF / etc. There looks to be a good foot and a half between the ropes and the cage. Is that standard? Did those two have an extended feud and are there any of their earlier matches pre cage worth tracking down?

Oh, so there was no "turn" like Choshu did to Fujinami in 82? Interesting..thanks a ton jdw...

What exactly happened to cause Tenryu's turn in May 1987? How was it presented to the crowd / viewers? Been wondering that for a few weeks now after seeing a bunch of Jumbo / Tenryu tags and how good they were together.