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I don't know about any of the 8 could win. I can buy into 5 for sure, maybe 6. Yano and Takahashi are no way they'll win levels for me. Fale is a bubble pick. If Gedo doesn't mind the cup being mediocre then Fale has a chance. In regards to talent they need to mix it up with fresh matchups. Booking Okada and Tanahashi with losses in night 1 is promising on fresh matchups.
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I thought the show was pretty good. What a downer to end the show on those 2 matches . The cup is showing how thin the roster is. They do need an injection of talent in some spots .
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I checked out the Dayton show after loving the Atlanta show, and liking the ppv a lot. Dayton didn't match up. It was a good show, but for people who thought it was at the level of the Atlanta show they're way off base. All things considered they don't have Styles or reDragon on the show you're bound to suffer some in the match quality of the show.
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So basically the only thing bad on Wrestlemania was the CM Punk chant.
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I thought I'd throw my thoughts about the show here. One I liked it. Secondly, the ATL show was much better. On the Atlanta show it seemed the wrestlers seemed to be positioned much better to show their strengths. Also commentary was pretty bad as opposed to the Atlanta show. Cedric Alexander vs. Matt Sydal I thought Sydal looked real good here. We started off real hot with hot action. Sydal then slows it down and starts working the leg with leg kicks and leg locks. Then he just drops it. I think Sydal is at his best at mixing up his high spots and ground game. The guys are exchanging big moves. Alexander was good in this too. It seemed like they are going in a heel turn direction. So we had a lot going on here. I also thought the near falls were a little over kill for an opener. That's a small issue though. 3 1/4* Moose vs. Mark Briscoe This was another good match. It told a good story and got Moose even more over from the match. Good showing from both guys. I liked the ACH match more from Atlanta though. That drop kick from Moose was big time. 2 1/2* Karl Anderson vs. The Addiction vs. The Kingdom This was fun. For a guy working solo Anderson shined way too much. A lot of counters, and nearfalls. Clearly a crowd pleasing match. It lacked a narrative for me. They could have done some booking decision. Heck give him Cheeseburger as the Bullet Club Virgil. Burger eats the fall. The Bullet Club puts the boots to him. Of course I assumed they would be working as heels. 2 1/2* BJ Whitmer vs. Roderick Strong This was just there for me. In Atlanta both guys came across much better, because they were used better. They need to get away from one another. The match started out ok for me, but really lost steam. 1 3/4* ODB vs. Maria I loved this match I was popping.. It was cloaked perfectly with all the bells and whistles. Corino helped this match with his reactions. 2 3/4* AJ Styles vs. ACH I really liked this match. The early flash pin by ACH was awesome. Stlyles was great at pacing this out. Styles was so good at cutting off ACH. ACH had some really well timed hope spots. His high spots were fun. The finish teasing at the end with AJ using the Calf Slicer,to Bloody Sunday. to the Styles Clash was tremendous. A hell of a story. Maybe if ACH got some wins leading to this I might have bought into an upset more and made the match better. 3 3/4* The Young Bucks vs. reDRagon My match of the night. I thought the UFC gal was fine doing distraction spots, We start out with a ridiculous pace. Just so many hot moves. Young Bucks are positioned as babyfaces here. We even get a FIP. It wasn't super long but long enough to get the point over. Matt Jackson got caught in a hanging arm bar by O'Reilly. Jackson put that over big and sold it the rest of the way. Major props to him. We get this super hot finish with so much action.The FIP really allowed the action to take a breath and then kick it into high gear. 4 1/4* Alberto El Patron vs. Jay Lethal I liked this match. Lethal is a solid worker who really is presented well and seems special. They walked the line between good work and high spots that got over. I popped huge Lethal caught Patron with the arm breaker. He escaped a little too early for my liking. I love the payoff of Lethal failing because is arm that was worked over couldn't support the weight. The 1st false finish with the book was well done. 3 * Samoa Joe promo was good and he came across as a huge star. Hanson vs. Tomasso Ciampa vs. Michael Elgin vs. Jay Briscoe Man this was frustrating on a lot of levels. The majority of the work before the overbooking seemed pointless. It seemed like a collection of spots that had no meaning. They really needed someone to be the glue here. Then the overbooking galore happened. Then the finish which was the worst for a babyface champion. It was straight out of Flair NWA touring champion. This match hurt everyone here. 1 1/2*
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On the Roku they just eliminated the Vault category. Not a shame since all the matches can be found elsewhere. Except the Hart Foundation vs British Bulldogs one.
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PTBN Reaction Show: ROH 13th Anniversary Show
shoe replied to soup23's topic in Publications and Podcasts
I liked this a lot. You guys seemed to take the temperature of the show real well. Just to chime in. I liked the Styles/Fish match from Atlanta over Styles/ACH. Both are really good matches. I thought the ACH match had cooler moments. I thought the Fish match had better storytelling and built to the finish better. Either way I don't think their is a wrong answer. Styles comes across as the biggest star in the U.S right now. What he does in the ring is really great storytelling. I kinda knew the Bullet Club was going to get a babyface reaction. I was surprised they worked their matches as faces though. -
Something I tweeted to Dylan was that both of us liked every match on the show. Yet I bet our match order from best to worst would be completely different. To me that says they're doing something right, and why wrestling can be so awesome .
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I thought the crowd was great. The crowd came across as people there to enjoy the wrestling. Sometimes ROH crowds try to get themselves over . It didn't seem like that type of crowd.
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I watched the Atlanta show and it really was a great show. I can see people thinking it was as good or better than the NJPW WK show. Also thought Caprice Coleman was great on the matches he did color on. Especially the Styles match. He really got the story of the match psychology over. With that said I know him and Kevin Kelly don't announce a lot together. I do hope they develop more of a chemistry. 1.Caprice Coleman def. v Dog Mike Posey This was a showcase for Coleman and it did it's job of getting him over and showing what he's about. I enjoyed Posey in this too. 2 1/2* 2.Corey Hollis vs Jonathan Gresham This started out pretty good and I was pissed when it was interrupted by The Decade. This morphed into a killer tag match. Whitmer as bully has this role down. The build here was great. We get some clunky spots, but nothing horrible. The build to the finish and the faces teasing submissions working Whitmer's bum wheel was tremendous and so effective. 3 1/2* for the whole segment. 3.Matt Sydal vs Delirious This was a real fun match. Delirious was on point with the comedy. They walked the line real well with the comedy, and the action. Kevin Kelly really did a great job at putting over the these guys history with one another. 3 1/4* 4. Roderick Strong vs Kyle O'Reilly I think this might have been match of the night. This was just great wrestling. O'Reilly was great working the arm and worked great spots around it. Strong was pretty great at selling the arm. Strong even avoided using it in strikes. Strong would go after the back and played into the finish. They told a compelling story that had a strong narrative that lead to a finish that made sense. 4* 5.Moose vs ACH This was interesting stuff. They worked a game of Moose and Mouse as Caprice referred to it as. Their is a spin in this though. At times ACH tried to match Moose toe to toe and every time ACH failed. That made the classic spin even more interesting and made sense since ACH does have an ego. Fun match. 3 1/4 * 6. 6 Man Mayhem match was a killer high spot oriented sprint. Everybody had a chance to shine. So many great spots that the crowd ate up with a spoon. Some nice interactions that could payoff on their ppv on Sunday. 4* 7. AJ Styles def. Bobby Fish This was another killer match. Styles comes across as the biggest Star in the United States not named Brock. This match told a great story that lead to a satisfying finish. The early portion we see Styles work over Fish's arm. This was well done. Then he moves over to working the ribs. He misses a move and transitions to Fish and he's great hear working over AJ's core. Fish was all over it and it was nice payback. We get some back and forth down the finish. Styles though eventually takes control down the finish working over Fish's neck. He wins clean and shows he's the superior wrestler, but Fish is in his league. I went back and forth and ended up giving this 4* 8. 2/3 Falls ARMAGEDDON Tag Match: Briscoes vs Mike Bennett & Matt Taven This is basically 1st fall is normal rules, 2nd fall table match, 3rd fall FCA. People live have told me this was incredible. On tv it didn't reach that level. It was more because of things outside the wrestlers control. Like when they were brawling in the crowd it was pitch black and real hard to see what was going on. Still it was good at 3 * Overall a great show. This show smoked Fastlane. If enough people watch it, the show has a chance to be in the mix for show of the year. It's missing that MOTY candidate, but it's really good from top to bottom.
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On 2/27/15 NJPW World had it's Road to the cup houseshow. It was a solid show. Nothing bad, but nothing great either. The opener of Fastlane had more storytelling than pretty much everything on this show. 1.Sho Tanaka vs. Yohei Komatsu I liked this. They've worked each other a ton. One thing I'll say these guys have worked each other a lot, but it doesn't have that cooperative feel to it. I really liked that build to the finish. 3* 2.Kushida & Manabu Nakanishi vs. Gedo & Jado Man this was my favorite match of the night. It wasn't the best, but my favorite. The schtick that Gedo and Jado do in this was great. In fact Gedo on these houseshows has been one of my favorite performers. Easily the smartest worker on the roster. I'd love to see Gedo and Jado vs. The Time Splitters. I wish we got this style of match than all of those matches with Yano/Sakuraba etc. This was your southern tag in front of 75 people in a gym in Virginia. That is a compliment. 2 1/2* 3.Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Jushin Liger vs. Satoshi Kojima & Tiger Mask I really liked Tenzan and Kojima's interactions in this match and have hopes they can have a good singles match. I liked Liger and TM also, but not as much. This match was more about the match ups than the match. 2 1/2* 4. Yuji Nagata & Captain New Japan vs. Katsuyori Shibata & Hirooki Goto This was good. Goto and Nagata looked great against one another. The former champs isolate the Captain and work him over. Nagata had his moments to look good. Eventually the Captain couldn't hang. 2 3/4* 5.Tetsuya Naito & Ryusuke Taguchi vs. Kazuchika Okada & Yoshi-Hashi This was a match I liked. Again the schtick really was well done with Taguchi. Naito and Okada had some nice exchanges. Taguchi is best used in this role. 2 3/4* 6.Hiroshi Tanahashi & Togi Makabe & Tomoaki Honma vs. Shinsuke Nakamura & Tomohiro Ishii & Toru Yano. I thought this was the best worked match on the show all because of Honma's FIP work. Honma was also on tremendous on offense. He was able to so draw me into the match. I wish we would have just gone from his FIP to the hot tag finish. We didn't get that and instead in watered the match down. Honma really does need a tag title run. 3*
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Johnny we've been buds for awhile now. What is your favorite era of wrestling?
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So their is the Andre the Giant Undercard Battle Royal. A ladder Match to determine the king of the mid card. The divas match where anyone with talent wishes they were working the semi main on NXT. The your time has been cut tag title match. The hahaha got you Rusev isn't a main eventer match. The list goes on. A The one thing the show has going for it is all the wrestlers will bring it. Or maybe my guy Ivan Koloff will get a HOF nod.
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The way Zellner put it over It sounds like a perfect idea for my Saturday before UFC that night.
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We'll get Reigns over more by having him beat a bigger guy is so old school logic on how to get a piece of talent over in that environment. If we're going old school , Vince how about they let Reigns cut his own promos.
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Observer is reporting this along with a AAA press conference on Tuesday.
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I agree it's stupid it's just that he himself needs something different right now to get away from how he has been handled since he came back. They fucked it up royally just that simple. I can kind of see both sides of this. He's the most over face in the company. He should be in the main event mix. Though if he's just doing jobs maybe they should move him down the card and gets wins so he doesn't get killed off . Maybe win an IC title and help elevate it. Doubt the company cares about the IC title enough to try to elevate it.
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Daniel Bryan looks like he'll be in the same match as R-Truth is just pathetic.
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Also in regards of promos you can still talk smack without burying your opponent. We've seen Flair walk that line .
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A couple of things about the promo. 1. I said on the show I had no problem with Valentine's promo as long as Jones was going over. If you bury someone in a promo and then you beat them all you did was beat someone who's not worth your time and helps neither of you. 2. Is Johnny Valentine a loud mouth jerk? No he's a stone cold killer . So you're describing him completely wrong . It's interesting to hear other people's takes on the subject matter.
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The company is so deep with quality wrestlers. They could run 3 tours like the 80's and have good matches up and down the card. The draw back is they don't have enough headliners to do 3 shows and draw.
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I would say the passing of the torch thing is actually the exception when you look at it with guys getting 'made' into superstardom with an assortment of intangibles leading to a moment that completely defines the character and gets it over. Most guys don't just survive off of wins and if they do, their superstardom only lasts as long as they are winning and have less staying power (see Goldberg, Vader). Lets look at a few examples... Austin - Shawn jobbing to Austin was more of a coronation than a final push to put him over. Of the people that helped Austin be as over as he got, I don't know that Shawn makes the top five . No one looks at that Wrestlemania as the day Austin was "made" since he was already the biggest star in the companty at the time. Foley - Mick didn't get over with wins either rather getting thrown off stuff, pulling a sock out of his tights and having a great promo. I guess you could say Undertaker put him over intially but Foley himself would say his heat was on the wane before Hell in a Cell and only really took off thanks to the interactions with Vince. Shawn - Got over doing high profile jobs to guys at Wrestlmania and... and this makes me gag... stealing the show. Probably biggest break out moment was jobbing to Razor Ramon in the ladder match. Bret - Probably got over to the highest level through television exposure more than one big match considering he made that leap off tape by beating Flair. He was also pushed in an absense of other options since the cubbard was bare at the time. Undertaker - Got over due to mystique than anyone else ever. I don't know the Hogan job really put him on the map since it got wiped out so quickly at Tuesday in Texas and it had interfearance. I would also say the Streak wasn't really a thing until he was already a made man unless you want to say Jimmy Snuka and King Kong Bundy got him over. Yes I do agree that their are other tangibles that gets talent over. Those are things that originally gets them over. Their are moments of a victory that skyrockets a piece of talent. An example of this is Steamboat beating Flair for the TV title in 77. Of course this was followed up on. 1. I agree Shawn jobbing to Austin was a coronation. Though it's the message it's now the Austin Era.It was the final hurdle winning the title over one of the 2 biggest World Champions of the early 90's in the WWF. Essentially it was the final stamp. 2. I agree with what you said about Foley. Though you can't minimize how important those early Undertaker jobs did for Foley. Later Foley was key in getting Kane over by putting him over, got people to finally take to HHH as a top guy, and gave Randy Orton a big boost up the ladder. 3. Again I agree with a lot of what you say about HBK. Though people began to view him as THE top guy was when Bret put him over at Mania 12. 4. I agree about Bret. He got himself over. Though jobs by Hennig, Flair, and really the most important one by Piper was huge, Piper never did jobs and by putting Bret over at Wrestlemania 8 was huge and springboarded him to the next level. 5.I will say mystique was big with Undertaker as was his total destruction of his Survivor Series opponents. Beating Hogan gave him huge cred in the fans eyes, I think both things go hand in hand. Yes you need those intangibles to get over. A big win in the fans eyes goes a long way in viewing a talent as a top guy.
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Funny enough his twitter handle was @JSorWWE420 LMAO
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I even liked the Reigns/Bryan match more on second viewing. It was even more smartly worked than I realized on 1st viewing. They really got the crowd into it.