jdw

Edit it into your Vader post. You're suppose to select a wrestling and what you think is his best match.

Less high on that one: http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....c&start=353 I thought Bob worked the arm well, but Jimmy neither sold it well or worked to counter it well. I think I tossed around Mid Atlantic a time or two. I recall liking it on first viewing, possibly at a KOC. Probably two things at work for me: low expectations, and not really paying attention as close as I do in a write up. When I sat down to really watch it, things like Jimmy's work on the bottom annoyed me, along with that wandering around shit when he had several clear pin attempts. What's a bit odd is that I'd like disliked the Bob-Snuka cage match, but when watching it for a write up, it didn't suck as much as I'd previously thought. That might be a reverse setting of expectations. John

I think it's more along the lines that later when Hulk "perfected" the Hulk-Up that it was a very clear one, coming back, and the heel was going down. The times when the heel didn't go down, it's because we got a DQ or COR or screw job that was part of the Hulk-Up run to the finish. In turn, it felt he turned his faux-comeback + cut off spots into a comeback that wasn't as theatrical as the Hulk-Up, that he saved those elements for the big one, and added in things like the finger wag. In the earlier matches, the comebacks felt more similar between cut off and final one, and the final one not quite as theatrical as he became later in the classic Hulk-Up. As far as which is better? I like fake comebacks getting cut off. But I also think the Hulk-Up evolved into something the fans ate up. Terry (and possible Pat helping him) found a structure that worked, and ran with it. Simple, but pretty effective. John

Sounds like you mean the last door escape, while the last escape attempt was going over the top (which they also did a heck of a job on). Anyway, my mini-essay on the one out the door: There's so much cool stuff after the point that Sarge is already halfway out the door that I tend to forget how perfectly Sarge worked it to set up getting out the door. Classic heel spot of getting his ass kicked, flopping around selling the beating, then seeing "Door!" and heading for it. Anyway, whole write up is here: http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=3575#3575 Not going to say it's the best 80s WWF match, or best Bob match... but it might just be my favorite. Sarge is great. Backlund is terrific. The Dick & Kal show is at their very prime. The crowd is just freaking batshit. Super over babyface champ. A heel who the fans want to see get his ass kicked. The two deliver, in campy pro wrestling fashion. Hard to ask for more in a match. John

"He hit him THERE!" -Kal Rudman "He hit him there AGAIN!" -Kal Rudman One of my favorite Kal moments ever was the second one. Great campy fun. My other favorite Kal spot was he'd role out from time to time is the old "Bob [or other babyface] told me he was going to do that!" spot. Just love that one. On the other hand, he had a really good observation that ties in with what you point to as Slaughter's Plan: "All Slaughter wants to do is stun Backlund enough so he can get out. He knows what kind of beating his in for." -Kal Rudman Kal is goofy, campy, and over the top. He's far from a great~! color commentator. But he does pull in some good analysis from time to time, and it's in a sense not like he's trying: he's just reacting to what he's seeing.

I get the feeling that the money Okada is making for New Japan is being over estimated, as is the amount of money it would take for the WWE to sign him. The notion that Okada would get a sustained rocket up the ass push is pretty humorous. John

So he's getting a Wrestlemania top star payoff, but not getting a Wrestlemania top star payoff? C'mon Dave, clear language. Just word it as, "The deal Bruno inked is at a CM Punk/Randy Orton level Wrestlemania payoff" and that makes sense. And is it at Undertaker / Trip "top star" level? Just a mess. John

Interesting. I just went back and took a look at my write ups of the Hogan matches through the 1985/86 Hogan-Savage feud that I'd taken the time to walk through. 10 or so matches, against the likes of Orndorff (first feud), Savage, Schultz, Muraco, Iron Sheik. I don't see much rips on it for Hogan's selling. As someone pointed out earlier, he was a willing bleeder. I noted in serveral times of the early matches that he hadn't perfected the Hulk Up, and instead worked several of them to lead to cut offs before finally fully coming back. Didn't drop any lines of him being too dominant either. I'd add that I wasn't much of a Hogan Fan before re-watching his matches as part of the thread. I was open to being critical of him, and instead the opposite happened: I found him to be an effective worker. John

1/19/87 is that MSG NHB/No DQ match. The Spectrum with Kimdorff is 2/14/87, setting up Hogan & Piper vs Kamala & Orndorff on the next show. It's kind of funny that Hogan didn't get the pin on Kamala in either the Spectrum singles or the Spectrum tag. One singles match in Boston with the pin, two singles matches in MSG with the pin in the second. Three singles in Toronto, with Kamala getting the DQ win in the middle NHB/No DQ match to set up the blow off cage match.

There was no love between the St Louis Purist and Memphis. John

Yep. Both Choshu matches made the set.

I'll watch it again at some point. A number of them "don't suck as much as I thought" when watching them years ago, such as the 3/83 Bob-Muraco. On re-watch, I can put my finger on what pissed me off originally about the 3/83 match. But the balance of the match was passable. Not up to the level of the 2/83 match, but not the steaming turd I initially thought. The 3/79 Bob-Greg match may have been hurt by it's placement on Frank's "Backlund & More" set: 07/27/78 vs Inoki 08/28/78 vs Ivan 03/26/79 vs Greg 10/20/79 vs Patterson 11/17/79 vs Patterson 04/12/80 vs Hogan 05/27/80 vs Dusty 09/30/80 vs Stan 09/22/81 vs Don 10/17/81 vs Don 01/18/82 vs Adonis That's a tough set of matches. The Inoki match is probably my favorite Inoki match. I liked the simple work of the Ivan match. Business picked up with the Hogan and Dusty matches, which instantly was my favorite Dusty match ever and probably at the time my favorite Hogan match. The Stan match is fun as hell. I like the Don matches better than most folks, and the Adonis match is generally well received. The Greg-Pat-Pat just felt like a death stretch. I was super happy when the 60 minute draw came out and Bob & Greg has a match that I loved. In turn, the 07/30/79 Bob-Pat final was a Bob-Pat match that I liked. It's possible that I'd go back and watch those three matches and not get as annoyed now as then. But I also recall Frank inventing the phrase "Fifth of Gin Selling" in those Patterson matches, so who knows. John

What's funny is that I don't agree with the list, but when I look at this near-Top 10: I'm not sure that I'd argue with the "who" that's in it (with one exception), but rather with the order. I wouldn't have Gene that high, nor in the Top 10 at all. But if you pitch him and take the rest of the first 11 guys as your Top 10... that's not an unreasonable collection of Top 10 candidates. It's no an embarrassing 10 at all. The ordering I'd disagree with, though obviously I rank people differently than Larry. Londos and Hogan are locks for 1-2, and after that it quickly falls to "crap shoot" where #3 and #10 are closer to each other than #3 is to #2. This kind of surprised me as I expected the Top 10-ish to be goofy in the sense of having a couple more stupid names. It didn't. John

I'm wrong often. I cop to it as well. Another assumption you make from the prior threads which is faulty. John

I thought the finish was the best thing about it, and one of the greatest finishes of all-time: * Greg covers Bob for a pin * Bob taps Greg's back * Greg thinks it's the ref, and breaks the cover * Greg celebrates * Bob gets up, atomic kneedrops Greg, and pins him I thought it was totally awesome. John

Martel also had a very fun match with Choshu in Japan in 1985, and a single match during the Tag League in 1986 with Choshu that folks generally liked as well. His matches with Jumbo and Choshu reflect pretty damn well on Martel. John

These are the Jumbo-Martel matches: 05/13/84 AWA Title: Jumbo Tsuruta vs Rick Martel (Title change) 07/25/84 Int'l Title: Jumbo Tsuruta vs Rick Martel 07/31/84 AWA Title: Rick Martel vs Jumbo Tsuruta 10/11/84 AWA Title: Rick Martel vs Jumbo Tsuruta 09/29/85 AWA Title: Rick Martel vs Jumbo Tsuruta (St. Paul) I'm really fond of the 7/31/84 match, which did well in the DVDVR poll. The 7/25/84 match has some nice stuff, but isn't at that level. The 10/11/84 match bubbled up in the past couple of years on Dan's 1984 set, which would also have the 7/25/84 match as well though Dan had tracked that down a while earlier. I think I watched the 10/11/84 match at some point after getting the set from Dan, but I'm really drawing a blank on it. The title change seems to have some mixed view points. I really don't care much for it relative to the 7/31/84 match and the 9/29/85 match. Others like it a good deal. The 9/29/85 match is one of those that is half surprisingly good, but half what you'd hope for after their prior matches. Surprising in the sense that it's well heated and they nail their stuff. Not surprising because they've worked together before, and tend by this point know their stuff. Lots of fun close to the series. You kind of wish that AJPW brought Martel over in 1986 for an Int'l challenge where Jumbo got his pin back to close the books. Martel was back for the tag league with Zenk, but his push was less than what it would have been if he'd come in say earlier. Hmm... 03/10/86 Int'l Title: Jumbo Tsuruta vs Terry Gordy 03/29/86 Int'l & PWF & AWA Titles: Jumbo Tsuruta vs Stan Hansen 04/19/86 Int'l & AWA Titles: Jumbo Tsuruta vs Stan Hansen 05/24/86 Int'l Title: Jumbo Tsuruta vs Harley Race 07/31/86 Int'l & AWA Titles: Jumbo Tsuruta vs Stan Hansen (title change) 09/03/86 Int'l Title: Stan Hansen vs Jumbo Tsuruta 10/21/86 Int'l Title: Stan Hansen vs Jumbo Tsuruta (title change) Not really time from July on, as the Tag League starts on the series after the October title change. April or May would have been best, or even March instead of Gordy since he had challenged on 10/29/84 and 06/04/85. I don't recall if Martel kind of zoned out for a while after dropping the AWA Title. KHawk might know better. I know he showed up at Wrestle Rock. John

Yeah, the 3/79 match is the only one I would call mediocre. Been a while since I've seen it, but on recollection: * it was very flat * Greg didn't seem into it as much as usual * it just kind of laid there Look forward to the Philly matches.

Mike Sharpe has been one of the worst wrestlers when viewing the 80s. Just unbearable. Which is kind of funny, since his match with Backlund is solid and watchable. Not great, but better than the Backlund-Ivan match from 1983... and I happened to like Ivan as a worker. John

For a guy who took his ball and went home in two prior threads, you do seem to continue to obsess about the topics you bailed on. Just to be clear, the "Depth" entered the restart of the thread here: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?show...depth&st=52 Meaningless enters here: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?show...depth&st=64 In the context of "You can say WWF were wasteful in shoving so many big name guys into meaningless mid-card fodder matches..." Depth is also in that post. Same poster in both. You. It was another two days before Tom had introduced "meaningless shit" and "meaningless garbage" here in response to one of your silly posts: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?show...depth&st=97 And another day before Dylan put turned your "meaningless mid-card fodder matches" into the famed "meaningless depth": http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?show...epth&st=106 But you laid the ground work three days earlier. I hate to break it to you, but I suspect that Dylan would call the Valentine-Blazer match one of those "meaningless mid-card fodder matches", even if it happened to be a good match. John

Yep. The Toronto Pre-Dream Team match with Tito & Steamer is quite good by WWF standards. Mania II is a spot-a-thon, but certainly has a lot of good spots to carry it.

Strange... I know I've watched this match, and liked it... but don't seem to be able to find a write up. Do find the one for the rematch, which I liked a good amount. I also have the two Philly matches, finally getting the full version of the cage match. John

Phill's legendary "so campy they're great" combo of Dick Graham and Kal Rudman. Whenever watching any Philly match prior to Gorilla taking over Kal's spot at the table, you always need to track down the original broadcast version if it's available. Much like tracking down the MSG ones where Vince called the matches solo. Vince was a terrific pbp man back then, and the Dick & Kal Show was just campy greatness. On the match, I've always liked it a good deal. Storyline is simply but effective. I also like that Hogan knows how to hold up his end of the bargain on pretty much all the working of holds. Was very surprised by how he knew his stuff. John

"Where's the money, Maggie?"