jdw

Ironic: I wrote a longish response to Kevin's post on PC earlier in the thread, then decided not to post it after hitting Preview thinking it just wasn't worth arguing about. :/

Baba would be fairly high on the Lawler scale. Regular worker from the mid-60s into the mid-80s, and generally in non-short matches. In the ring... probably more than Jerry. Then on the mic for a long time before dying. 1 hour shows, then 30 minute shows... so they don't add up to being in the both as much as Jerry, but very few people have been in the booth as much as Jerry. It would be interesting to do some sampling of how much Flair was on TV in say 1987. Probably not as much as folks think. The overwhelming majority of it would be promos. It wouldn't add up to the amount of promo & backstage time that say a healthy HHH got in the WWE. As a touring champ in his 1982-85 peak... I wonder how much he was on. Same goes for Hogan in say 1987. He wasn't in syndication every week. One would have to think about how to treat repeat stuff: an angle shot for Superstars appearing on Challenge and then Primetime. I would hazzard a guess that Trip has been on TV as much as anyone if we toss out "announcing", which is a general cheat (and put Cole ahead of all but a few wrestlers). John

McMahon top Senate self-funder, $62.4M poorer $12.40M - McMahon pockets $523.5K - donations She didn't need to spend as much in the primary this time, just enough to keep any thread within the party for raising up. She'll likely toss a large chunk at the general, along with third party ads dropping in if they feel the seat is more in play than last time. Since they know Linda will drop a ton of her own money, they probably will save their money for other seats where the GOP candidate is less well funded and the race down the stretch is tighter. John

Fun reading.

Loss and Bruce don't look anything alike.

Wait... what the fuck? 12/29/98 Mankind over Rock 01/24/99 Rock over Mankind 01/26/99 Mankind (2) over Rock 02/15/99 Rock over Mankind 08/22/99 Mankind (3) over Austin & HHH 08/23/99 HHH over Mankind He debuted in the WWE in 1996. Feuded with Taker, had the one-off with Shawn, feuded with Austin in 1998. He got those cups of coffee with the title as a lifetime achievement award? I could have sworn that Rock-Foley was over, and they liked the "surprise" on TV (the December one and the Super Bowl Halftime show). Of course Rock was going to get it back to face Austin at Mania, but they were in the phase of shorter title reigns. The Summer Slam one... my recollection is that Austin didn't want to put over Trip, so Foley was in there. Perhaps someone had the late 98 / early 99 WONs and can dig up quotes from Dave *at the time* of Foley getting those titles as a lifetime achievement award. I sure as hell don't remember them at the time... John

I think one of the interesting things to watch for is how the "major" promotions that are tracked through the decade all started the process of transitioning from the past to the future: WWF: Hogan / Warrior WCW: Flair / Sting NJPW: Fujinami & Choshu / Three Musketeers AJPW: Jumbo (& Tenryu) / Misawa AJW: Crush Girls / Bull The Crush Girls didn't pass it as their period essentially wrapped in 1989, but the era shifted.

It's Nash. He's taking credit for everything over time. Not at all. Vince didn't create what Austin turned into: Austin did. Vince just rolled with it when forced to (i.e. it was over with the fans), similar to how he rolled with Savage and Razor being "cool" as heels and turning them. John

On Grantland's front page... Kevin Nash's Next Angle: The controversial wrestling star has made a fortune in the ring and is making headway in Hollywood. So why can't he sleep at night?

She ran far to the right of Brown in 2010, and is again. John

They are that crazy. John

Lebron James.

Konnan is definitely a source I wouldn’t put full faith in since he has always struck me as a sensationalist. Konnan, for example, claims that as a start-up midcarder named Max Moon, he has personally seen a WON on Vince’s desk. That sounds ridiculous because it is doubtful that Konnan was ever in Vince's office more than for their initial meeting, and it's doubtful that Vince would be so open about reading the WON. I remember questioning Steve Yohe on his claim that Vince reads the Observer, and he didn’t defend his assertion which I thought was quite telling. Frankly, the WWE is so much larger than anything that the WON could ever cover or understand, with all due respect. There was a running joke about Fink being the person in the WWF assigned to read the WON for Vince. Except it wasn't much of a joke. That's what Steve was likely referring to, and he got it straight from Dave on one of our various trips to see Lucha. I suspect I've tossed this joke from a 1996 phone call out in the past, so it's not breaking WONfabe: Dave: "John... I've got a new best friend." jdw: "Who?" Dave: "Vince." This after Vince called Dave and had a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong conversation about the Evils of what Turner was doing to the Poor Little Old WWF. One of the damned funniest phone calls I ever had with Dave. John

Unlikely. She'll vote straight party line on all the important issues, especially since there is no daylight between her views and the party's view in general. She's not running as a moderate Snowe & Collins style Republican, which is effectively dead. The leverage is with the Dems goes against the party's position. John

We already knew Ric was a whore. This is just arguing over the price. John

Does anyone have a clue what the "disrespecting" is all about? It's what Davey is justifying the whole nonsense about.

I would be interested in what one would come up with 1994, sticking more toward "regularly teaming" for the most part rather than "dream". Regularly teaming doesn't mean they have to be together the whole year, but that there's enough there. All Japan for example: 03.01.1994 @ Tokyo Korakuen Hall: Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama beat Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue & Takao Omori (24:01) Akiyama pinned Omori 20.01.1994 @ Iwate Prefectural Gymnasium: Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue & Takao Omori beat Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (27:03) Taue pinned Kobashi. 16.05.1994 @ Hamamatsu City Gymnasium: Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama beat Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue & Takao Omori (25:49) Akiyama pinned Omori. 31.08.1994 @ Region Plaza Joetsu: Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama beat Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue & Takao Omori (22:14) Akiyama pinned Omori Omori did other teaming with Kawada & Taue's group, though starting in the Carny he also teamed with Hansen, and teamed with Jun in the Tag League. Clearly Misawa & Kobashi & Akiyama were a "group", while Omori was loosely affiliated (thought not strong enough for me) with Kawada & Taue. The gaijin are a little trickier. Williams & Ace were a puched pair starting in May: they actually got the pin on the Champs in a non-title match exactly a week after the beloved 5/21/94 Misawa & Kobashi vs Kawada & Taue match. So clearly Williams & Ace are 2/3rds of a trio. In turn, Hansen doesn't really have a subtible partner. He paired with Baba in the 1994 tag league because the Hansen & Omori team failed. Johnny Smith isn't a suitable #2. I don't have a huge desire to go Hansen & Baba & #3. So perhaps instead: Williams & Ace & Smith Hansen & Kroffat & Furnas Smith paired with Williams & Ace in a few trios against Kobashi in the Tag League, and bounced around during the year. As a #3, he's acceptable opposite Jun and Omori. With Stan... there just isn't anyone. So instead I'd go with a "tag team specialists", with the gimmick being that those two are underdogs against the Misawa-Kobashi-Kawada-Taue level, are at the level of Jun and Omori, that's they use their "tag team wiles" to make up some of the ground, and if Stan hits you with the Lariat you're dead. Easy enough to book them early in the series beating one of the top teams to get it over as credible. So: All Japan '94 Misawa & Kobashi & Akiyama Kawada & Taue & Omori Williams & Ace & Smith Hansen & Kroffat & Furnas 16 teams might be too many since it would be a card of 8 trios matches and nothing else, night after night. Need a little mixing up. If one goes beyond AJPW and NJPW, somewhere between 10-12 teams: 4 AJPW 4 NJPW 1-2 WAR 1-2 FMW Not sure if I'd want to Pogo Up the FMW teams since I don't think Baba would let his guys be worked over by the sickle. Also don't know what one would slap together from either of those promotions. NJPW... I'd have to think about it.

Yatsu as well.

Jun debuted on 9/17/92, so he worked on Jumbo's last "competitive" series (the October Giant Series from 10/02 - 10/21). The Kobashi results from 1992 of that last series include these Akiyama matches of interest: http://www.purolove.com/noah/kobashi/kobashi92.php 13.10.1992 @ Tsuruoka City Gymnasium: Jumbo Tsuruta & Masanobu Fuchi vs Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (23:22) Tsuruta pinned Akiyama 16.10.1992 @ Aizu City Gymnasium: Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama beat Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa (24:27) Kawada pinned Ogawa. 19.10.1992 @ Isesaki Citizen Gymnasium: Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi beat Akira Taue & Masanobu Fuchi & Jun Akiyama (25:02) Kobashi pinned Akiyama. Teamed opposite Jumbo, and teamed with Jumbo's side without Jumbo in the match. I'll have to look at the JWJ to see what non-Kobashi matches Akiyama might have had in that series in the Jumbo & Co vs Misawa & Co feud. He may have teamed up with Jumbo in one or more of them.

Holy shit, I just re-read that stuff. Glorious. Even folks who argue about everything else were joining hands in that one to scratch their head at the insanity. What was best is that folks brought good points to the table. John

Oh boy... I forgot the passage that led to the "I AM THE BATMAN OF SEX!" comment. Wow... just... wow... epic.

Damn... I forgot how good that thread got.

Of course viewers drive ad revenue. But it's relative. More people watched the Super Bowl in 1975 than watched the Rose Bowl this past year: 54M vs 17.5M. Driving revenue? The entire NFL package across NBC, CBS and ABC covering not just the Super Bowl but all games was $50M a year. The Rose Bowl just sold it's rights for $80 per *game*. The universe of Eyeballs changes. The amount of ad revenue changes. The % changes. Would you agree that the WWE would rather have their 1999 "ratings" for Raw extrapolated out to how many 2012 viewers that would be? Or are they perfectly happy with their current ratings relative to what Stone Cold and the Rock were doing? That's my point. Add in that 2012 vs 2011 year-to-year for USA Network isn't that radically different in terms of available viewers.

"I AM THE BATMAN OF SEX!" Oh dear god... not THAT THREAD!!!! John

Yes. No, it's not. Yes. Is there really that much difference in the number of households that have Raw from year-to-year at this point? I get that more people are watching a 3.1 this year than a 3.1 last year. But is it radical on USA? Also something I mentioned when something like this came up the last time: If the Finale of American Idol draws 1 million more viewers than the Finale of MASH, all that tells us is that 1M more people watched AI. It doesn't tell us how many more people were alive in the US in 2012 than 1982, and what the ratio of viewers was. Because I swear to you that everyone in TV if given the choice of these: 1. 1 million more viewers than the average of the MASH Finale (105.9M) 2. the average rating of the MASH Finale (60.2) in an 8:30pm - 11pm time slot 100 out of 100 tv folks would rather have #2. Not even close 60 rating is something that TV folks can't even conceive of anymore as the Super Bowl doesn't even get into the 50s. So while there are problems comping July 2012 Raw with July 1999 Salad Days Raw... I actually don't think "viewers" is a great way to make the direct comp.