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Even at Mania it's pro wrestling, with the Triple H wing of the court against the undermanned Babyface wing of the court. It will come down to the Shawn Michaels of SCOTUS to act as the ref between the two sides. And that's the problem: you never can trust Shawn to get it right. John

That's a great line. John

Ribs. The storyline over the two nights was the ribs were hurt. John

Well, telling hin to kill himself is a bit strong, but... Fuck the kid. John

I also might... *might* suggest that this eventually get broken up into a couple of sets. There are some things like the 1975 Open League that are among the best extant collections of various Gaijin in comlete matches. In 1976 we have the WWWF/WWF starting to have quite a few complete house shows from MSG and Philly available, which are useful for not only mining the Main Events but also some of the other matches for examples of how folks work... such as Patterson vs DiBiase. There's a lot of New Japan available, not just on Classics and dvd but also Dan's hunting. All that IWA is out there. Daniel pointed to a ton of WoS. Might end up finding a split of 1970-73, 1974-76 and 1977-79 gives the space to be more managable and inclusive like you're been with the 90s Yearbooks. John

Frank put together a series of 70s Japan dvd's. There were roughly 20 disks, in 2 hour format. Looks like the last one he did was in 2005. He did not do DVD versions of the 1977-79 "years", but did do dvd versions of the AJPW Tag Leagues for those years. He also did earlier video tape versions of 1977-79, so there's a template of some of what would have made 1977-79 when he got to them... however there was a fair amount of interesting stuff that had come out on G+, dvd and also Dan's hunting for those years between the video tape versions and when he would have sat down to do 1977-79. This also predates the flood of IWE stuff that's come out, so there's very little of it on these. I'm not recommending all of these. They're simply a good reference source for folks to use as a base. Frank was thinking in terms of Yearbooks when he put these together, and his concept was very similar to what Will and Loss are doing. * * * * * * * * * * 1970 Antonio Inoki vs Dory Funk - 08/02/1970 Giant Baba vs Gene Kiniski - 12/03/1970 1971 Antonio Inoki vs Destroyer - 05/19/1971 Giant Baba vs Abdullah - 05/19/1971 Antonio Inoki vs Jack Brisco - 08/05/1971 Antonio Inoki vs Dick Murdoch - 12/04/1971 1972 Antonio Inoki vs Karl Gotch - 03/06/1972 Strong Kobayashi vs Andre Roussimoff - 05/06/1972 Giant Baba vs Destroyer - 12/19/1972 1973 Disc One Inoki/Sakaguchi vs Powers/Patterson - 08/24/1973 Destroyer vs Mil Mascaras - 10/09/1973 Baba/Tsuruta vs Dory/Terry - 10/09/1973 (JIP only AFAIK) 1973 Disc Two Inoki/Sakaguchi vs Thesz/Gotch - 10/14/1973 Antonio Inoki vs Johnny Powers - 12/10/1973 1974 Disc One Jack Brisco vs Dory Funk - 01/29/1974 Jack Brisco vs Jumbo Tsuruta - 01/30/1974 1974 Disc Two Antonio Inoki vs Strong Kobayashi - 03/19/1974 Antonio Inoki vs Seiji Sakaguchi - 04/26/1974 Giant Baba vs Pedro Morales - 06/13/1974 Antonio Inoki vs Tiger Jeet Singh - 06/26/1974 1974 Disc Three Baba/Tsuruta vs Roop/Backlund - 07/25/1974 Destroyer vs Mil Mascaras - 07/25/1974 Baba/Destroyer vs Kox/Slater - 08/29/1974 Dory Funk vs Jumbo Tsuruta - 08/29/1974 1974 Disc Four Antonio Inoki vs Kintaro Oki - 10/10/1974 Giant Baba vs Jack Brisco - 12/02/1974 Jumbo Tsuruta vs Ken Mantell - 12/05/1974 Antonio Inoki vs Strong Kobayashi - 12/12/1974 1975 Disc One Jack Brisco vs Bobo Brazil - 03/13/1975 Baba/Tsuruta vs Dory/Terry - 03/13/1975 Jumbo Tsuruta vs Bob Orton - 04/10/1975 Antonio Inoki vs Tiger Jeet Singh - 06/26/1975 Destroyer vs Spirit - 07/25/1975 1975 Disc Two Antonio Inoki vs Lou Thesz - 10/09/1975 Destroyer vs Stan Hansen - 10/30/1975 Giant Baba vs Kintaro Oki - 10/30/1975 Antonio Inoki vs Billy Robinson - 12/11/1975 1975 Open League Disc One Opening Ceremony - 12/06/1975 Harley Race vs Dusty Rhodes - 12/06/1975 Abdullah vs Dory Funk - 12/06/1975 Giant Baba vs Baron Von Raschke - 12/06/1975 Hiro Matsuda vs Dusty Rhodes - 12/09/1975 Jumbo Tsuruta vs Horst Hoffman - 12/09/1975 Dory Funk vs Baron Von Raschke - 12/09/1975 Giant Baba vs Harley Race - 12/09/1975 1975 Open League Disc Two Pat O'Connor vs Mighty Inoue - 12/13/1975 Destroyer vs Don Leo Jonathan - 12/13/1975 Jumbo Tsuruta vs Rusher Kimura - 12/13/1975 Giant Baba vs Abdullah - 12/13/1975 Pat O'Connor vs Dick Murdoch - 12/15/1975 Dory Funk vs Horst Hoffman - 12/15/1975 Abdullah vs Don Leo Jonathan - 12/15/1975 Giant Baba vs Jumbo Tsuruta - 12/15/1975 1975 Open League Disc Three Mighty Inoue vs Hiro Matsuda - 12/17/1975 Destroyer vs Horst Hoffman - 12/17/1975 Dory Funk vs Don Leo Jonathan - 12/17/1975 Jumbo Tsuruta vs Abdullah - 12/17/1975 Giant Baba vs Rusher Kimura - 12/17/1975 Jumbo Tsuruta vs Dory Funk - 12/18/1975 Giant Baba vs Horst Hoffman - 12/18/1975 Closing Ceremony - 12/18/1975 1976 Disc One Jumbo Tsuruta vs Rusher Kimura - 03/28/1976 Giant Baba vs Jumbo Tsuruta - 05/01/1976 Antonio Inoki vs Victor Rivera - 05/11/1976 Seiji Sakaguchi vs Pedro Morales - 05/11/1976 1976 Disc Two Terry Funk vs Jumbo Tsuruta - 06/11/1976 Jumbo Tsuruta vs Billy Robinson - 07/17/1976 Giant Baba vs Billy Robinson - 07/24/1976 1976 Disc Three Destroyer vs Super Destroyer - 08/28/1976 Jumbo Tsuruta vs Jack Brisco - 08/28/1976 Antonio Inoki vs Billy Graham - 09/10/1976 Antonio Inoki vs Ivan Koloff - 12/02/1976 Dick Murdoch vs Killer Karl Kox - 12/09/1976 1977 Open Tag League Disc One Opening Ceremony - 12/02/1977 Robinson/Hoffman vs Inoue/Takachio - 12/02/1977 Dory/Terry vs Tenryu/Hata - 12/02/1977 Baba/Tsuruta vs Sheik/Abby - 12/02/1977 Dory/Terry vs Robinson/Hoffman - 12/06/1977 Sheik/Abby vs Oki/Duk - 12/10/1977 1977 Open Tag League Disc Two Baba/Tsuruta vs Kimura/Kusatsu - 12/10/1977 Oki/Duk vs Kimura/Kusatsu - 12/14/1977 Robinson/Hoffman vs Sheik/Abby - 12/14/1977 Baba/Tsuruta vs Dory/Terry - 12/14/1977 Dory/Terry vs Sheik/Abby - 12/15/1977 Closing Ceremony - 12/15/1977 1978 Tag League Dory/Terry vs Bockwinkel/Lanza - 12/05/1978 Dory/Terry vs Sheik/Abby - 12/09/1978 Bockwinkel/Lanza vs Abby/Kamata - 12/15/1978 Baba/Tsuruta vs Dory/Terry - 12/15/1978 Commendation Ceremony - 12/15/1978 1979 Tag League Mil/Dos vs Wrestling/Strangler - 11/30/1979 Dory/Terry vs Baba/Tsuruta - 11/30/1979 Mil/Dos vs McDaniel/Hill - 12/03/1979 Dory/Terry vs Mil/Dos - 12/07/1979 Baba/Tsuruta vs Mil/Dos - 12/13/1979 Dory/Terry vs Sheik/Abby - 12/13/1979 Commendation Ceremony - 12/13/1979 * * * * * * * * * * * Matches that aren't on the above sets that were on the earlier Video Tape sets: From the 1970-76 sets: 03/21/1974 Antonio Inoki vs Ernie Ladd 10/07/1976 Antonio Inoki vs Andre the Giant 1977 Best of Japan (no dvd equiv) 03/05/1977 Billy Robinson vs Jumbo Tsuruta 06/11/1977 Harley Race vs Jumbo Tsuruta 08/25/1977 Jumbo Tsuruta vs Mil Mascaras 09/02/1977 Antonio Inoki vs Stan Hansen 12/01/1977 Antonio Inoki vs Pat Patterson 1978 Best of Japan (no dvd equiv) 05/30/1978 Backlund/Garea vs Fujinami/Choshu 07/27/1978 Antonio Inoki vs Bob Backlund 08/24/1978 Baba/Jumbo vs Mil/Dos 12/13/1978 Nick Bockwinkle vs Jumbo Tsuruta 1979 Best of Japan (no dvd equiv) 01/05/1979 Brody/Curtis vs Baba/Destroyer 05/18/1979 Andre the Giant vs Stan Hansen 06/07/1979 Tatsumi Fujinami vs El Canek 06/15/1979 Sakaguchi/Choshu vs Saito/Matsuda 10/31/1979 Shohei Baba vs Harley Race 11/08/1979 Antonio Inoki vs Dusty Rhodes 12/06/1979 Bob Backlund vs Antonio Inoki

I wouldn't count Best PPV/Show Paul or any other promoter/booker. It's a bit too close to Best Feud or Best Tag Team or Best Worker etc getting credited to the Booker/Promoter. Best PPV/Show tends to be one that's memorable for great matches rather than great booker/promoter storyline work. On the other hand, I would count Best Promotion to Paul if ECW had bagged it. That more of a sustained thing that a promoter/booker did (like the TV show) rather than just having the slots come up jackpot on a PPV. John

Does Paul have enough time to win a WON Award this year? 1991 Best Color Commentator 1994 Best Booker 1994 Best Weekly Television Show 1995 Best Booker 1995 Best Weekly Television Show 1996 Best Booker 1996 Best Weekly Television Show 1997 Best Booker 2001 Best Non-Wrestler 2002 Best Non-Wrestler 2002 Best Booker 2002 Best Weekly Television Show (SmackDown!) 2004 Best Non-Wrestler 13 of them. One can debate the SmackDown one... but it would be fair to say he was the "show runner" for the beloved period that won SD the award, and it was more the product in the ring and storylines that won the award than Kevin Dunn's directing/production or much Vince influence. Paul still has a way to go to catch Corny: 12 Manager of the Year Awards 5 Best on Interviews 3 Best Bookers 1 Best Non-Wrestler 1 Best Pro Wrestling Book 22 of them. John

I'm sure that Paul will be explaining in no time how Kevin Dunn screwed up the whole Brock Push. John

How do you really feel, Tim? John

Well, there's also something else that Will is cooking up that will cover it as well. John

For the entire length of the match? Not likely. He have worked in a fair number of his kicks to the head and the like. He probably would have also wanted to make Hansen look good in stretches, and find some logical ways to have Hansen get his "run". Suspect that they could have worked a really good match around this storyline, but different, not so one-note, and probably not as great of a peformance out of Hansen. Kawada > Taue, and that works 95%+ of the time. This is one of those rare times where Taue Being Taue allowed Hansen to totally dictate the match they were going to work on pretty much every level. Even when Taue went off the page, it was generally short and Hansen could reel him back in. Of course Hansen's "attack" on the ribs would have been better/stiffer than Taue's, but I actually think that Taue's works well in the sense that it gets across how screwed up Hansen is: damn near anything Taue does busts Stan up. John

The Kobashi match is better, and is a nice cap on their trilogy over the past year. But I'm glad this made the set, and that you liked it. It's a very different match, and Hansen's performance is epic. And while Taue isn't perfect in it, my comment in recommending this was that there wasn't anyone else in AJPW that Hansen could have had this match with. The others would have had other Stuff that they wanted to do that would have gone off the page, and Misawa would have wanted to sell for half the match. John

Because Panther was a heel. The point was to get across that Gringos were even more heel that the rest of the rudos. John

Why wouldn't the Gringos turn on Panther? Who took Art's mask... then his hair? John

I'm glad to see this on the yearbook, and that you liked it. The two really work well together, and more than just for tossing out big spots. Against Kobashi, at times it feels like the Kenta Show for either of these guys. Against each other, they just seem to play off each other so well. It's also a good baseline for the Carny Final. They couldn't put each other away here. In the Final we got the finish, but he was a hell of a struggle/battle for either of them to get to the point of being able to finish the other. John

Die He's never heard about ECW before tonight, has he? Two guys passed out = a boring night without Bob Bass in ECW. Yooooooooow!

Did I miss the discussion of what a trainwreck the "Extreme Reunion" was? Post on the Torch boards: Which ruined the show's main event, since Shane Douglas vs. Sabu was going to be the main event. So, hours before the show, Douglas made the call to wrestle Justin Credible in the main event. Sounds like it could work, as he and Shane have wrestled a bunch on indies and have a decent match. Well the problem was, he showed up too high to perform: So, what does Shane Douglas get greeted with from the 2,400 adoring don't-say-ECW fans? Here's a full, sad report of the show from a Torch reader named Dominic: The opponent for Lynn was Devon Storm, who was in ECW for a while in 1996, I think. They can't possibly be doing the June show, can they? And weren't they going to get Kleinrock to release it? I can't see this making it to DVD. Yow!

I'd love to see the 1/15/94 Shawn-Razor on tape... was at the one live. The other one must be this: WWF @ Springfield, MA - Civic Center - February 2, 1994 (5,000; heavily papered) WWF IC Champion Razor Ramon pinned Shawn Michaels (w/ Diesel) at 19:56 with a roll up after Diesel accidentally hit the challenger in the face as he attempted to assault an interfering Marty Jannetty; the match originally went to a double count-out at 11:26 when both men began fighting on the floor but Razor grabbed a mic and challenged Michaels to continue the bout; late in the contest, referee Joey Marella was knocked out, allowing Diesel to interfere and use Michaels' fake IC title belt to hit an elbow drop on the champion, knocking Razor out and prompting Jannetty to come ringside and break Michaels' cover (Paul Bearer's Hits from the Crypt) That actually looks pretty interesting since they did a restart and didn't instantly go to the finish, and instead went another 8:30. That's pretty cool. John

Their G1 match the year before cracked Loss' Top 100 for 1993: #66 - Hiroshi Hase vs Shinya Hashimoto (NJPW G-1 Climax 08/03/93) The odds are that this one will crack his 1994 Top 100. Though... there are a lot of good matches in 1994... it's pretty loaded. But New Japan isn't really strong in quality heavyweight matches after August, the match will be late in the year (i.e. the order of Loss watching stuff), and probably have a bit of an impression. Still a good bet to make it. Seem to recall the last time I saw folks talking about it the comments were rather positive about the match. John

I don't even remember much about this match. Standard "solid" lucha trios match can blur together unless they have something that is the hook to make it stand out. John

Was there this night, and it was a load of fun live. Nice to see that nearly two decades later folks still like it and that we weren't just hitting the Live Bong on it. John

They have a pair of two hour shows a week to fill with entertainment. A weekly *one* hour tv show tends to have a good sized Writers Room which includes the Show Runner / Creator / Guru. Depending on the show, the Show Runner / Creator can hang onto the Big Stuff. I'm aware of at least one show where the Creator is a bit of an insecure jerkoff when it comes to jerking around some of the show's regular writers, while knowing he can't pull some of the same stuff with other more established writers. Anyway, the WWE doesn't trust folks to go out there and wing shit anymore. Take the formatting that's shown in Cornette's MX book and jack it up to 2012 levels. John

Not at all. What I was pointing out in the non-pin and non-submission "losses" was the absence of what you and Lance were claiming: He was rolling through the roster. That appears to be more than when we started this conversation. Also, why do you think "six different wrestlers in two years" is a small number for a 2002-2004 main eventer? Did HHH get pinned by a dozen guys in that same time frame? Pins in three-way dances were the equiv of singles matches in that era. I mean... does Benoit's win over Trip at Mania not count because Shawn was in the match? Anyway, here are his pins... along with a couple of early pin-avoidance moments that didn't make Brock look good. I'm not sure if he ever got his pin over RVD, which is pretty funny given how Trip eventually cut off RVD's legs. * * * * * * WWF @ Binghamton, NY - Broome County Arena - January 4, 2002 (6,192) Lance Storm pinned Brock Lesnar with a bridge after hitting the superkick and using the ropes for leverage WWF @ Springfield, MA - Civic Center - January 5, 2002 (6,587) Lance Storm pinned Brock Lesnar with a backslide and using the ropes for leverage; after the match, Lesnar knocked Storm out WWF @ Beaumont, TX - January 12, 2002 (4,004) Hugh Morrus pinned Brock Lesnar WWF @ Waco, TX - January 13, 2002 (3,537) Hugh Morrus pinned Brock Lesnar WWF @ Chattanooga, TN - January 19, 2002 (4,370) Tommy Dreamer & Steven Richards defeated Brock Lesnar & Randy Orton Don't know who ate the pin there, but 50/50 we can add Dreamer or Richards to the list. WWF @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - January 28, 2002 (9,034) Mr. Perfect pinned Brock Lesnar with the Perfect Plex Those are all before Brock's TV debut. The following are all after Brock's TV debut. WWF (Raw) @ Abilene, TX - April 14, 2002 Bradshaw pinned Brock Lesnar with the Clothesline from Hell WWE @ Toronto, Ontario - Air Canada Centre - May 13, 2002 Raw: Matt & Jeff Hardy defeated Brock Lesnar (w/ Paul Heyman) via disqualification in a handicap match at 3:28 when Heyman broke the cover as Jeff had Lesnar pinned Thank you Paul for saving Brock from jobbing to the Hardys WWE @ Cleveland, OH - Gund Arena - June 24, 2002 Raw WWE IC Champion Rob Van Dam defeated Brock Lesnar (w/ Paul Heyman) via disqualification when Heyman broke the pinfall after the champion hit a moonsault; after the bout, RVD hit the Van Daminator on Lesnar and the Five Star Frog Splash on Heyman before Lesnar powerbombed him through the announce table Thank you Paul for saving Brock from jobbing to RVD WWE (Raw) @ Uncasville, CT - Mohegan Sun - June 30, 2002 WWE IC Champion Rob Van Dam defeated Brock Lesnar via disqualification when Paul Heyman prevented the pinfall after the champion hit the Five Star Frog Splash; after the bout, Lesnar attacked RVD Thank you Paul for saving Brock from jobbing to RVD I could post more of those, but it was the common finish to the Brock-RVD matches around the horn. How commong? Vengeance 02 - Detroit, MI - Joe Louis Arena - July 21, 2002 (12,000) WWE IC Champion Rob Van Dam defeated Brock Lesnar (w/ Paul Heyman) via disqualification at 9:38 when Heyman pulled referee Charles Robinson out of the ring to prevent the pin after RVD hit the Five Star Frog Splash on the challenger; prior to the bout, Jim Ross & Jerry Lawler came ringisde to call the last half of the show; after the match, Lesnar assaulted the referee before he and RVD brawled in the ring; moments later, RVD attmepted to hit the Van Terminator but Heyman distracted him long enough for Lesnar to attack the champion and hit the F5 onto a steel chair They ran it again on the PPV a month after doing it on TV on Raw. Survivor Series 02 - New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - November 17, 2002 (17,930; 15,500 paid) The Big Show pinned WWE World Champion Brock Lesnar (w/ Paul Heyman) to win the title at 4:19 after hitting the champion in the midsection with a chair followed by a chokeslam onto the chair; moments before the finish, Heyman turned on Lesnar by pulling the referee out of the ring and knocking him out after Lesnar hit the F5 on the challenger; immediately after the match, Heyman & Show drove out of the arena WWE @ Pittsburgh, PA - Mellon Arena - March 11, 2003 WWE Smackdown! WWE Smackdown! World Champion Kurt Angle pinned Brock Lesnar at 1:17 with a cradle after switching places with his brother Eric Angle, who was destroyed by Lesnar from the moment the bell rung and suffered the F5 on Kurt's behalf; during Lesnar's intro before the match, Kurt rolled underneath the ring and Eric took his place WWE (Smackdown!) @ Miami, FL - American Airlines Arena - March 15, 2003 The Rock pinned Brock Lesnar by avoiding the F5 and hitting the Rock Bottom WWE @ Pensacola, FL - Civic Center - May 27, 2003 Smackdown! The Big Show (sub. for Nunzio), Chuck Palumbo, & Johnny Stamboli defeated WWE World Champion Brock Lesnar & the Undertaker in a handicap match when Show pinned Lesnar with the chokeslam WWE @ Toronto, Ontario - Air Canada Centre - July 8, 2003 (10,000) Tyson Moody pinned Mark Bartilucci Smackdown!: The Big Show & WWE Smackdown! Tag Team Champions Shelton Benjamin & Charlie Haas defeated WWE World Champion Brock Lesnar in a falls count anywhere non-title handicap match when Show hit a chokeslam off the ring steps through the commentary table and scored the pin with one foot on the chest Vengeance 03 (Smackdown!) - Denver, CO - Pepsi Arena - July 27, 2003 (9,500) Kurt Angle defeated WWE World Champion Brock Lesnar and the Big Show at 17:38 to win the title after hitting the Olympic Slam on both opponents and scoring the pin on Lesnar WWE (Smackdown!) @ Calgary, Alberta - Saddledome - August 2, 2003 WWE World Champion Kurt Angle pinned Brock Lesnar with the Olympic Slam WWE (Smackdown!) @ Edmonton, Alberta - Skyreach Centre - August 3, 2003 WWE Smackdown! World Champion Kurt Angle pinned Brock Lesnar WWE (Smackdown!) @ Wichita, KS - Kansas Coliseum - August 10, 2003 WWE Smackdown! World Champion Kurt Angle defeated Brock Lesnar and the Big Show when Angle pinned Lesnar with the Olympic Slam WWE (Smackdown!) @ Kansas City, MO - Kemper Arena - August 11, 2003 WWE World Champion Kurt Angle defeated Brock Lesnar and the Big Show WWE (Smackdown!) @ Minneapolis, MN - Target Center - August 16, 2003 WWE World Champion Kurt Angle defeated Brock Lesnar and the Big Show by pinning Lesnar, moments after Lesnar suffered Show's chokeslam and Angle hit the Olympic Slam on Show; prior to the match, Lesnar hit the F5 on John Cena - who was deemed the special referee for the bout; Cena was replaced by a normal referee moments afterwards WWE (Smackdown!) @ Hamilton, Ontario - Copps Coliseum - August 17, 2003 WWE Smackdown! World Champion Kurt Angle defeated Brock Lesnar and the Big Show by pinning Lesnar after hitting the Olympic Slam on both men; prior to the match, Angle hit the Olympic Slam on John Cena - who was deemed the special referee for the bout; Cena was replaced by a normal referee moments afterwards WWE (Smackdown!) @ Sarnia, Ontario - Sports & Entertainment Centre - August 18, 2003 WWE World Champion Kurt Angle defeated Brock Lesnar and the Big Show by pinning Lesnar with the Olympic Slam Summer Slam 03 - Phoenix, AZ - America West Arena - August 24, 2003 (16,113; sell out) WWE World Champion Kurt Angle defeated Brock Lesnar via submission with the ankle lock at 21:18 after avoiding an attempt at the F5; late in the bout, Vince McMahon came ringside and hit the champion in the back with a steel chair while the referee was knocked out; after the match, Angle avoided an attack from McMahon before dropping him onto a steel chair set up inside the ring WWE @ El Paso, TX - Haskins Center - August 26, 2003 The Undertaker defeated Brock Lesnar and the Big Show in a No DQ match at around the 15-minute mark by pinning Lesnar with a powerbomb out of the corner after Show tumbled off the top rope to the floor; due to pre-match stipulations, the Undertaker earned a world title shot against WWE World Champion Kurt Angle for the following week; Kurt Angle did guest commentary for the match; the match began during the commercial break WWE (Smackdown!) @ Boston, MA - FleetCenter - August 30, 2003 The Undertaker defeated Brock Lesnar and the Big Show by pinning Show after hitting both men with a steel chair; John Cena was the special referee for the bout and, afterwards, dominated an altercation with Brock Lesnar WWE (Smackdown!) @ Long Island, NY - Nassau Coliseum - August 31, 2003 The Undertaker defeated Brock Lesnar and the Big Show in a No DQ match by pinning Lesnar; after the bout, John Cena - who was the guest referee - dominated an altercation with Lesnar WWE (Smackdown!) @ Columbus, GA - Civic Center - September 8, 2003 WWE Smackdown! World Champion Kurt Angle & the Undertaker defeated the Big Show & Brock Lesnar when Taker pinned Lesnar with the chokeslam WWE (Smackdown!) @ Roanoke, VA - Civic Center - September 13, 2003 WWE Smackdown! World Champion Kurt Angle defeated Brock Lesnar via submission with the ankle lock into a heel hook after 40 minutes WWE (Smackdown!) @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - September 14, 2003 WWE World Champion Kurt Angle defeated Brock Lesnar via submission with the ankle lock after hitting the Olympic Slam; after the bout, it appeared as though Lesnar had suffered a legit leg injury WWE (Smackdown!) @ Greenville, NC - Minges Coliseum - September 15, 2003 WWE Smackdown! World Champion Kurt Angle defeated Brock Lesnar via submission after about 2 minutes; prior to the match, Shelton Benjamin, Charlie Haas, Albert, and Sean O'Haire attacked the champion until Kidman, Noble, and the Acolytes made the save WWE (Smackdown!) @ Cologne, Germany - Colognearena - October 10, 2003 Kurt Angle & the Undertaker defeated WWE World Champion Brock Lesnar & John Cena when Taker pinned Lesnar with the powerbomb WWE (Smackdown!) @ Manchester, England - Evening News Arena - October 12, 2003 (matinee) Kurt Angle & the Undertaker defeated WWE World Champion Brock Lesnar & John Cena when Taker pinned Lesnar with the powerbomb WWE @ Albany, NY - Pepsi Arena - October 21, 2003 Smackdown!: The Undertaker defeated WWE Smackdown! World Champion Brock Lesnar & WWE US Champion the Big Show in a handicap match at 14:17 by pinning Lesnar after hitting both he and Show with a steel chain wrapped around his fist; Taker had originally pinned Show with a chokeslam off the top at 5:18 but Paul Heyman came out and made the match into a Best 2 out of 3 falls contest; Taker then won via count-out at 11:54 after throwing Lesnar into the front row but Heyman turned the bout into a No Count-Out match; Show & Lesnar were disqualified at 12:39 when Show hit Taker in the back with a chair but Heyman made the match into a No DQ contest; due to prematch stipulations, Taker earned the right to face anyone he wants, anywhere, anytime, and with any stipulations; after the match, Taker was further attacked by his opponents - eventually suffering an F5 into the ringpost; moments thereafter, Vince McMahon confronted the beaten and bruised Taker about who he wanted to fight; Taker then said he didn't want a title match with Lesnar but rather a Buried Alive match at Survivor Series with Vince himself WWE (Smackdown!) @ Ottawa, Ontario - Corel Centre - November 3, 2003 (1,600) The Undertaker, Kurt Angle, & Chris Benoit defeated WWE Smackdown! World Champion Brock Lesnar, WWE US Champion the Big Show, & Albert when Taker pinned Lesnar with the chokeslam Survivor Series 03 - Dallas, TX - American Airlines Center - November 16, 2003 Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, John Cena, Hardcore Holly, & Bradshaw defeated WWE World Champion Brock Lesnar, WWE US Champion the Big Show, Matt Morgan, Nathan Jones, & Albert in an elimination match at 13:17; Holly was disqualified for shoving the referee on the floor as a brawl ensued before the bell rang; Bradshaw pinned Albert with the Clothesline from Hell at the 28-second mark; Show pinned Bradshaw with the chokeslam at the 50-second mark after Jones hit Bradshaw from behind as he attempted the Clothesline from Hell; Angle pinned Morgan with the Olympic Slam at 9:06; Jones submitted to Angle's ankle lock at 9:31; Lesnar pinned Angle with the F5 at 9:44; Lesnar submitted to Benoit's Crippler Crossface at 11:51; Cena pinned Show with the FU after hitting him with a steel chain WWE @ Tacoma, WA - Tacoma Dome - February 10, 2004 Smackdown! Eddie Guerrero & John Cena (sub. for Kurt Angle) defeated WWE World Champion Brock Lesnar & WWE US Champion the Big Show at 17:26 when Guerrero pinned Lesnar with a low blow, using Cena's steel chain, and a cradle as Lesnar and the referee were distracted by Kurt Angle - who came ringside and hit both Cena and Show with a steel chair - blaming them for knocking him out backstage earlier in the broadcast No Way Out 04 (Smackdown!) - San Francisco, CA - Cow Palace - February 15, 2004 (11,000; 9,000 paid; sell out) Eddie Guerrero pinned WWE World Champion Brock Lesnar to win the title at 30:05 with the Frog Splash after reversing an attempt at the F5 into a tornado DDT onto the title belt; late in the bout, Lesnar attempted to use the title belt as a weapon while the referee was knocked out but Bill Goldberg, who was arrested earlier in the evening, came out and hit the spear on the champion; after the match, Guerrero celebrated in the crowd and was congratulated by his mother and brother Mondo who sat ringside WWE (Smackdown!) @ Stockton, CA - Memorial Civic Auditorium - February 16, 2004 (sell out) WWE World Champion Eddie Guerrero, Kurt Angle, & Hardcore Holly defeated Brock Lesnar, WWE US Champion the Big Show, & Albert when Guerrero pinned Lesnar with the Frog Splash; after the bout, Angle and Holly congratulated Guerrero on his title win the preivous night WrestleMania XX - New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 14, 2004 (18,500 paid; sell out) Bill Goldberg pinned Brock Lesnar at 13:48 with the spear and Jackhammer; after the bout, guest referee Steve Austin hit the Stunner on Lesnar before doing the same to Goldberg * * * * * * Not really at all. The point that Brock ran through the roster isn't supported. The point that he ran through the roster and didn't do jobs on the way out isn't supported. Wrong, I think it is clear I was referring to Taker and Angle at various intervals being the top faces, depending on Brock's alignment. But that does not fit your narrative. I don't think much of anything in your posts are clear as you're bouncing around off walls. John