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I think critism of Kurt predates major Cena-Luv. John

Not like there are a lot of Bock/Stevens tags out there. I'm sure if there were some great ones that Trip liked, they would have made it to the AWA set rather than the ones we've seen before. Funny thing is that Stevens doesn't really look all that great on them. Nick is perfectly good, but I'm still waiting for a Stevens match where he shows flashes of being a king. John

I thought the "Jim Brambilla" stuff was a just parody of Mr. Schemer back in the day calling BostonIdol "Frank Jewett" over and over again in a post as if Frank gave a shit. Jim vs. Snowden would make for good ants & maggots stuff, though. On topic again... Is Muchnick contradicting himself? "There is no single magic bullet." "But lets cut a lot of slack to Mr. Benoit's concussion theory as the magic bullet." John

I thought that was the point of talking about Tracy. John

I believe Meltzer has had items about Tracy for quite some time. I don't think she's been his only sources on it. John

Sort of a let down. John

So what's the dope on who this dope is? Pretty amazing that he didn't clean up the place when moving. John

Good thing Mark Madden doesn't post here. I recall him going on an apeshit bender on the Torch boards years ago when someone, when talking about Ric's book, commented that Ric seemed to ignore any drug use that he ever did. Mark stomped up and down that His Hero never did any of the recreational stuff other than drink a lot. It seems like it's been glossed over by folks over the years. John

I don't. Haven't for years. We *don't* see any of that bias slip into his writing? You just copped to him being a mark of the boys in the back and not rocking the boat with sources and friends in the business. That isn't journalism. Your analogy to the beltway press is accurate since they suck cock at the moment. Again - I don't give a shit about Shawn's memory being off. It's to be expected. I do care to point out that a "journalist" blowing off the truth is a problem. Don't we have a whole thread on Keller and the WON Writers for their innacurate nonsense? Haven't we wondered for years why Keller has such a hardon to rip Jericho, or why Dave will never say a negative thing about Jim Ross even when Ross warrants it? So "friend of a friend" gets a pass when his journalistic intergrity and skills are shitty? Good to know that's what you think, Dylan. John

Yes. Someone did enough to make a thread on it. Others did enough to think it was a good piece. It's pro wrestling. We really shouldn't give a shit about it because it's stupid. But there is a site called prowrestlingonly.com where fans are talking (and bitching) about pro wrestling. Hell, I've seen you talking and bitching about pro wrestling for more than a decade. "It's pro wrestling", yet you still are talking about it. "Does this make logic?" -Konnan John

There is that. Though considering how much he loves Harley, I suspect he remembers he won it first from Dusty and didn't beat Harley for the title until Starcade. But he is fucked up in the heads... so it's entirely possible. John

I don't buy the "from the heart" aspect. Give Shawn a run opposite Orton for the WWE Title, with a little title turn mixed in, and he'll be a-o-kay. FWIW - I'm not nitpicking Shawn. He's fucking brain dead and probably does think Shawn won the title from Harley the first time and believes he saw Gordon Solie rambling about it. My point is Mooneyham throws journalism overboard on something that bears *his* name in the byline. He had the choice between (i) poking Shawn into remember that Dusty held the belt for nearly three months between Harley and Flair, or (ii) letting it slide because he didn't want to upset Shawn by questioning his memory, however gentle. He picked (ii), even on a item that he knew just wasn't true. Mooneyham isn't a fiction write in his columns. He's suppose to be a "reporter". We all know Shawn's full of shit just about every time he opens his mouth. He always has been. It's the Mooneyham part I was pointing to. Fuck... it wasn't a complicated post, people. John

? John

He's not. He's clearly talking about Ric's first reign. If he were talking about Ric winning at Starcade, "regain" would have been tossed in... along with the word "Starcade". No, Shawn was talking out of his ass and Fanboy Reporter couldn't be bothered to correct His Hero. John

Did he mention every Horseman? Or just the ones he liked? John

Keep trying youtube. The WWE pulls stuff fast, but stuff also slips through. John

Looks like it's time for me to resub to the WON. John

I hit the eject on Ric Flair beating Harley Race for the NWA Title in 1981. Granted, Shawn has destroyed his mind through drugs over the years. But Mooneyham is one of Ric best friends, has known him and followed his career forever, and is the listed *author* of the article... you know, the guy responsible for it's accuracy. "Fact Check, Aisle Five!" In know... it's Pro Wrestling, Shawn is brain dead, and Mooneyham has been a mark for the boys for ages and wouldn't think of corrected His Heroes... so I shouldn't give a shit anymore. But for fuck's sake, you're a "journalist", Mooneyham... or at least pretends to be. Have some fucking pride. And before anyone tries to claim that "Ole didn't mention the title change on TBS", that would happen to be the Flair-Kerry title change. It would be just a *bit* hard for TBS not to mention Harley dropping the title in 1981 given the location of the *three* title changes he was involved in from April to June of that year. Fuckers... John

I think that's why we let Bix cast the first stone. John

I wasn't aiming anything at you, Will. I don't think Maggie was even a "good" worker, let alone someone who had a chance to be an all-time great worker. After watching another two of his matches yesterday, one of them pretty highly praised and cited in the thread as an example of great Maggie work, I still haven't seen something to change my thoughts. I suspect that if I walked through the Mid-South set similar to doing the WWF one that it would just annoy the fuck out folks. The four matches we watched... yeah, I'd best just watch and keep my thoughts to myself. John

I didn't think it was being a smarky insider elitest to think Benoit killing his wife and pre-teen son was pretty fucking sick. Some of us as *humans* aren't able to separate Benoit the the murder from Benoit the "ring artist". It really has nothing to do with being a "smarky insider elitest". I think a typical "smarky insider elitest" like yourself is probably more comfortable ignoring the murders so that Benoits work can still entertain you. John

At this point, who cares if people make negative generalisations of wrestling fans? You've been a wrestling fan for how long? Haven't you learned to shrug off the ones that don't apply to you? Non-Fan: "Did you hear about those fans who give the big ovation to the killer Benoit?" Me: "Yeah." Non-Fan: "Wrestling fans are some sick fucks." Me: "Yeah, I would have been embarassed to be in that crowd." It's not complicated. We've been doing that shit as long as we've been fans and face the negative generalisations of wrestling fans. We tend to respond by how the generalizations fit in with *us*. Non-Fan: "Wrestling fans are idiots for believing that fake stuff." Me: "I always have know it was fake, just like those guys on CSI are fake crime lab guys. They're both just entertainment." After 20+ years, I'm not sure why any of us get too worked up with the generalizations. We all know how to deal with them. The comment on whether Flair should take some hits for this, I'd say more than the fans. John

Juve was a natural as well, with a lot of his Dad's rudo shtick. Perro Jr. seemed to get it early that first year as well, though he didn't wrestle much. Of course bleed like hell like his old man, and then had that busted nose that seemed to set him back. John

We aren't talking about Harley Race throwing out a piledriver in a match and it not leading to a finish. We are talking about Race piledriving people on the floor in meaningless undercard matches and forcing the guy taking the move to no-sell it. Those things are pretty different, and it is as bad as IWA-MS rookies throwing burning hammers in openers. How often does Harley do this spot? How often is it no sold rather than slow sold? John