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That might be my favorite line of the thread. John

On Chris and Keith's question/point, people have language in their contracts for PPV bonuses. I believe it's standard language. Here's the language from Steph and Trip's contracts, since they have to be included in public filings since they're officers. Steph: Trip's most recent: PPV's moved to a "subcription' based WWE Network fall in between 7.2( B ) and 7.2( c ). I suspect that since a fair number of wrestlers count on their PPV bonus money the same that regular folks count on their work Bonus and/or Christmas Gift that their companies hand out, Vince and the WWE would have to come up with Something that makes up for the loss of the PPV Bonus/Payment. And likely Something that's pretty close to that guys are making from the PPV's. It's an accounting cost that that will shift from the PPV bucket to the WWE Network bucket. They reference "talent expenses" in filings when talking about PPV costs. John

It's possible they tried and no-one bit. Two years ago, when the WWE network was first thought imminent the word was that were having great difficulty finding someone willing to pick up the poisoned chalice of running the channel. Cash and stock. The reasons lots of people take jobs. It's also something that's will get launched if Vince and/or Trip really want it launched, and with the right model will be a "success" in the way other niche channels are. It's something that will look good on a resume in 5 years when said EVP wants to move on.

You're making a lot out of a sentence that also includes the word 'well-established.' Why wouldn't reference to the NFL Network fall under that category, rather than one that makes no sense on its face? I missed that "well-established" part. John

It's been on Direct forever. Dish and Comcast added it in 2009. Charter in 2011 while he was still at Reelz. TWC & Cablevision in 2012. His January 2013 bio for Back9 where he's listed as "Executive Vice President, Programming", and that he came directly from Reelz to Back9. That bio makes no mention of the NFL Network: http://www.back9network.com.php53-2.ord1-1...Kit-Jan2013.pdf He was a recent hire when that got put up: http://adage.com/article/media/cable-s-cos...s-coming/238968 And that blurb has standard stuff, again sans the NFL Network reference: I looked at the various articles on him around the Reelz and Back9 period, and there's dick on him relating to the NFL Network prior to this blub. Not it's possible that he's done some stuff for the NFL Network *this year* since leaving Reelz (which is hard to put a finger on when that happened since he was just freaking hired there within the past 12 months). But consulting the NFL Network in the past few months: * isn't a start up * and after most of the major shit already went down with the NFL Network So while I doubt it's a total lie that he's done some recent work with the NFL Network... it's fluffing up his resume, and exaggerating. He'll fit in well with Vince. My other point: Reelz, Back9, TV Guide Network and a decade ago running the Fox News morning show isn't really the resume of a major player, or someone you have a lot of faith in. Again... maybe he has connections. But I'd rather get someone who *currently* is working in the cable arms of Comcast, Fox, Disney, the Discovery Communications, A+E Networks, Viacom, Time Warner, Scripps... or possibly one of the Carriers. John

He was with Reelz through at least 2011: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/matt...gramming-193318 He allegedly went to Back9 from Reelz: http://adage.com/article/media/cable-s-cos...s-coming/238968 But there is a slight timelime issue with consulting for the "start up" NFL Network at some point between 2011 and now: The NFL Network was launch in 2003. It's celebrating its 10th Anniversary this year. It hasn't been a "start up" for ages. So yeah... Singerman will fit right in with the WWE. A Fox News bullshitter stretching his resume. Reelz is a jobber channel, and I'm not entirely sure that his run at TV Guide Network was during a period of monster success. But maybe he has connections! Or something... John

If they are going to a pay channel, then I wouldn't think distribution would be that big of a hurdle. It doesn't seem like it would hurt Comcast, DirecTv, etc. to simply offer the WWE network at $15/month, especially when they get a cut. Maybe there are some hidden costs that aren't obvious. Except they had issues getting carriers for 24/7 / Classics on Demand over the years. The Dish's wouldn't take it, and TWC wouldn't take it. It's not quite as easy as one thinks. John

One writer's thoughts: http://deadspin.com/the-end-of-georges-st-pierre-1466179060 "His problems aren't as bad as he thinks they are." -Dana White What we always knew... a giant pain in the ass. John

The worry about launching Mania night is that if there are bugs, they're screwed. You don't really want to bomb on your biggest night of the year. :/

G4 is effective dead: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G4_%28TV_chan...rriage_removals The WWE would be buying nothing at this point as all the carriage deals are being backed out of. I think I said something earlier about both the WWE and Comcast were really stupid in *not* working something out on a Joint Venture level early last year to take advantage of G4's existing carriage deals as a platform for launching a WWE Network. Likely some combo of: * Comcast overpricing G4 * Vince being unwilling to joint venture Since so many networks are joint ventures, it was pretty stupid for Vince not to be willing to go the route a long time again. In turn, Comcast blew having a piece of a channel that might over time be more valuable than their marginal channels such as Chiller, Cloo, TV One and the coming Esquire Network (formerly Style). It also likely would have helped keep them in bed with the WWE for Raw (and SD unless the desire was to use that to anchor WWE Net) for the a pretty fair number of years to come: they probably could have used their contribution of G4 to the joint venture to drive a good long deal with the WWE for Raw at a reasonable price as part of a "Strategic Partnership" and some such nonsense. No one said Comcast and the NBC Universal folks are the sharpest knives in the draw. Vince also isn't either when he gets outside of running WWE production. John

You get the sense that Feb 2014 isn't totally set in stone. John

Hogan-Sid was the main. It's what the Rumble was all about, and what the News Conference was all about, and Vince's "Thank you Hulk" interview. But: 1. Flair-Savage had the storyline/angle we liked The whole "I fucked Liz before you did" storyline plays better to us than the whole nonsense between Hogan and Sid, which also kind of pissed us off for taking the shine off Flair's winning the title thanks to Hogan-Sid dicking with each other. We of course enjoyed Flair's post-match speech about how big it was to him... unless of course we thought to hard about that shitting on his years of being the NWA Champ. Anyway... the Flair-Savage "feels" like it was equal because the storyline was better, and better put together. Of course they shat on that storyline after Mania for various reasons. 2. Hogan was leaving Vince knew he was leaving. Not clear on how long, but at least until this shit blew over, which could be a while. So Vince had to give attention as well to who was staying around. This wasn't quite the modern era where you could completely reset on Raw the next night. I'm not at all saying Flair-Savage wasn't pushed. It was. But the main event was what it had been for the prior 8 years: The Hogan Match. It's what sold the tickets, and what sold the PPV buys. Vince knew who his meal ticket was. John

Cool!

WM8- Hogan-Sid Summerslam 92- Macho-Warrior (again, Bret-Bulldog was a big crutch for the live gate) Survivor Series 92 - Macho/Perfect-Flair/Razor True. You can't go by the CHV - those were produced after the events. The posters reflect what they were attempting to sell to get people to watch the PPV. They also were in the can well in advance of the events to get in cable guides and other advertising. Look at the Survivor series: it doesn't even reflect the title change, nor of course Warrior getting fired. In turn, the Mania CHV elevates Savage-Flair to "double main event" status because Hogan is gone and Savage-Flair is (poorly) trying to carry the company. Locally, Bret-Bulldog was a big thing in helping sell Wembley tickets. In the US... Macho-Warrior got push more. John

I wonder if I've used that word in this thread. John

Me too.

Hopefully Masked Man isn't one of the "experts" they use as a consultant or talking head.

Yea, I was just about to mention that. Chi-Town Rumble has the first 1989 Flair/Steamboat match, a good Luger/Windham US title match, and an entertaining Loser Leaves town six-man with both Midnight Express teams. Plus the two major singles titles changed hands. WrestleWar is really about the main event but there the US and World singles titles change hands again. GAB has Flair/Funk, Sting/Muta, Luger/Steamboat, and War Games all of which are good (or better) matches. WrestleWar is the weak link in that chain but the great main event might be enough to hold it up as a "great" PPV. At least everything else on that card was kept short. WrestleWar had the main, which over time has become a Love/Hate type of match (relative to the earlier two big Flair-Steamer matches still being fully Loved). It was hurt by a supporting card that just didn't take off. At the time, Hayes-Luger was surprisingly entertaining... but I wonder how much of that was the surprise of Lex losing. Even if the match doesn't hold up (16+ minutes from those two is a lot of time given Lex was in face mode), I'd say it was at the very least a decent supporting match for the booking and title change and adding to the aura. But the rest... the final two title matches were in an anti-climactic spot, and neither delivered. The undercard was mediocre. It ends up being a one match card. It's too bad one can sub in Starcade '88, which had the strong main with Flair-Lex, a wildly fun Steiner-Rotundo TV title change, what I recall as a solid Barry vs Bam Bam US Title match, and I want to say a solid MX vs OMX match.

Yeah - I cannot fathom that a premium channel $15/month WWE NETWORK would have any infomercials. I liked Goodhelmet's idea for looking at VH1-esque - a mix of new shows (often talking about old stuff) and replaying taking old content. I can't fathom a $15/month WWE Network being successful, even transitioning PPV over to it. But that's also likely because I have always had a different model in mind. John

No. It's not a world view issue. It's because you're factually wrong a staggering amount of the time. John

So let's go back and look at the rest of this nonsense... Okay... Okay... An NWA Champ all the way back to these worked against Top Faces in a way to put them over like hell. They bumped, they stooged, they begged, they cheated, they too short cuts. Flair and Race did this as well. Any NWA Champ would need to do this when going into most territories when they're facing a top local babyface. Ric worked that way as his base as well. As did Harley. In addition, Ric bitched out. I don't really get the vibe watching Harley that he was totally bitching out to the degree that Flair was. Just a stylistic thing between the two. Begged off? Sure, but so did Lou. Bumpbed? Sure, but so did Lou. Stooged? Sure, but so did Lou. Which is what I was trying to get across: NWA Champ style go all the way back to Lou. Different wrestler brought their own personalities and styles to it: Buddy Rogers sure as hell didn't work the exact same style as Kiniski, but then again Brisco didn't work like Kiniski, nor did Harley work exactly like Buddy. They all added *themselves* to that base. But the base is still there. It's not something that Harley invented, or that Flair invented. That's just a bullshit thing that old timers like Lou started saying when they wanted to come across with the "Back in my day we didn't do this shit" crap... only for us to catch Lou doing that type of crap on tape against guys like Verne. Hey... cool.... I'm yet again saying that NWA Champ Begging Off goes all the way back to Lou himself. I love how consistent I've been about how so much of the NWA Champ Style stuff goes back to Lou. I'm suggesting that they all did it when going into territories and working against Local Face Heroes, especially ones where the Local Promoters/Workers wanted the Champ to put over the Local Face to the n'th degree. It was a job requirement. There are shadings of it. In Japan, they preferred their Visiting Champ to work "straighter" because they pushed Sport harder. Race wasn't as much of a bumping, stooging goofy champ over there. Harley was so respected in Japan that his nickname was Mr. Pro Wrestling over there. In turn, when he worked against Bob in MSG, it was 100% NWA Champ Touring Heel. It's no doubt something that annoyed people who've seen a lot of Harley on tape from Japan (where most of his quality matches on tape are from), but it's pretty much what you'd expect of Harley coming into MSG facing the top face. The view from St. Louis is the view from St. Louis: a non-territory, one city town. They brought in people from all over the country, and booked matches in their own style. They didn't book how Memphis did, how Florida did, how Los Angeles did, how JCP did, how Fritz did in Texas. St. Louis is about as removed from the rest of the US as Japan was. It was a power base because of Sam. That's pretty much it. I think both books are worthless, so I really could give a fuck where they ranked them. John

Longson was one of the top heels of the era, if not the top heel. He largely only worked as a heel. He also was a traveling heel rather than a heel anchored full time in an area Of course Lou is going to work face. No one ever said that Lou never worked as Face or non-heel as champ. That's not the same as Rick Steamboat coming into Texas in 1981 and working Face opposite the Von Erich boys, or going into Memphis to work face against Lawler. You really think that Fritz or Jarrett are going to want Steamer to come in and only work with the Freebirds and Bill Dundee rather than the top babyface? I think you could grasp that if you slowed down to think about it. Don Leo is a national heel. This was a National Broadcast (like all the fucking Russ Davis stuff), rather than a Local Territory. Lou faced all the country's top stars on those shows, and adjusted to the opponent. It isn't remotely close to what a local promoter would have wanted out of Lou. Again: go watch his match against Verne Gagne, one of the ultimate babyfaces of the era, to get a grasp of how Lou worked when he worked with a face... which was the case in territories that had anchor faces as their top stars. It became even more set in stone as we moved into the 60s and on into the 70s. I can't help it that you ignore the match I pointed to: Gagne. A babyface rather than him working against two national heels. Jerry: "I'd like to buy a vowel, Pat." Sajack: "Okay... which one would you like." Jerry: "Q!" Sajack: "What the fuck?" John

Yep. 01/27/81 Roddy wins US Title from Flair Held it until August. John