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I love that somehow, some way, those four guys were compared to Bulldog Bob Brown It's not my fault that you asked a question and I was forced to answer it!

Misawa, who was trying to elevate Kobashi to the spot. After the exodus, they went with Tenryu... but he's a sacred cow, so we best not use him. Then they brought in Keiji Mutoh, with Mrs. Baba gave him a lot of power for that. Then they went back to Kawada, but he got hurt instantly... and it was back to Tenryu and Mutoh for another year. Basically Oct 2000 through Feb 2003 was them. Yep, works for me. Misawa, Kobashi, Tenryu and Mutoh. John

Dave talked about it in the WON, probably before Benoit and Tazzzzz ever debuted.

Kevin Nash, with the exception of: * the initial "bodyguard" stage of Diesel * the initial jump to WCW We could cut those two off at: * Diesel as WWF champ being a Bob Brown moment * Nash over Goldberg being a Bob Brown moment

* The original list is the 27 that you guys already were considering strongly. * In the Sammy and Sat lists, "other" matches not in the 27 that you're asking for thoughts on. There's no need for Kawada-Jun in the Sammy & Sat lists when you guys have already moved it to the 27. It kind of makes me confused over what I should be recommending to add.

Sorry... wasn't clear on the earlier request. I was talking about stuff like this: Current All Japan list. 27 matches represented, with 24 of them "complete" (as complete as possible anyway). Toshiaki Kawada vs Jun Akiyama (AJPW 03/26/98) -- From Samurai TV: Kawada vs. Akiyama 1801 complete (3/26/98) Was meaning chopping out of the Sammy and Sat lists stuff that you & Will & Co already had on the list of the first 27, leaving the Sammy & Sat to deal with other matches to consider / pimp.

On the NTV versions: * Jun Akiyama & Hiroshi Hase vs Kenta Kobashi & Taiyo Kea (AJPW 07/19/98) * * Mitsuharu Misawa, Jun Akiyama & Satoru Asako vs Kenta Kobashi, Johnny Ace & Johnny Smith (AJPW 08/22/98) * * Mitsuharu Misawa, Jun Akiyama & Satoru Asako vs Toshiaki Kawada, Yoshinari Ogawa & Takao Omori (AJPW 08/23/98) * Those three all appear to be complete on Sammy. Dan lists them as 21:53, 20:36 and 21:32 respectively. Would guess the NTV versions were chopped up quite a bit. No comment on the quality: I don't recall them at all on NTV, and haven't watched the Sammy versions yet. * Mitsuharu Misawa & Yoshinari Ogawa vs Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (AJPW Real World Tag League 11/30/98) * It's a bit too bad that Sammy's version looks to be even more JIP (just 6:30 of 30:00) than the NTV version. * Jun Akiyama vs Yoshinari Ogawa (AJPW 09/11/98) * * Toshiaki Kawada vs Masahito Kakihara (AJPW 09/11/98) * These are both complete on Sammy and the following commercial listing of Dan's: 727. AJ - Burned comm. - Summer Action Series 1998 II Pt. 1 728. AJ - Burned comm. - Summer Action Series 1998 II Pt. 2 Which I think were in the bonus discs of his "1998 All Japan Superset - 2nd half" set. They're short (11:10 and 6:52 respectively), so no reason not to include the whole things if they're any good. I would argue that the Misawa-Mossman from that show should be on as it's Misawa's "singles return" from injury after the Dome. It's just 7:34. It's also a semi-high profile match for Mossman, which is a first for him at that level. None of those take up much space compared to normal AJPW Budokan singles, in fact combined they take up as much space as one normal AJPW singles match. It's a rare attempt of them trying to push some of the lower ranked guys in singles. A bit unique, and one could say a contrast at the end of the decade to how say Jumbo was working with lower ranked guys at the start of it.

Can you edit out of the Sat and Sammy list things you already have on the first list of 27? I see the Misawa-Taue from Carny in the initial 27, and then on one (or both) of the later lists. It gets confusing over what we need to look at. On the first 27: Mitsuharu Misawa vs Akira Taue (AJPW 03/22/98) -- Toshiaki Kawada vs Jun Akiyama (AJPW 03/26/98) -- Those should both be tagged as Carny. Last add: when you get down to the final list, you might want to have one last pass by Ditch or me to double check the dates. The Carny Misawa-Kawada on the first list has the same date as the Carny Misawa-Jun (league match I assume rather than Final) on the second list. There might be a few more like that.

What's the current AJPW List after Ditch's recommendations back in January? Dan went hog wild on the 1998 set: http://www.crazymax.org/index.php?showtopic=54406 http://www.crazymax.org/index.php?showtopic=54984 That doesn't include listings for the commercial releases, which were also part of the set. John

I guess out of "respect" for Ward they let him be his own NWA promotion rather than being rolled under GCW?

A side office out of GCW? Looks like he used their talent?

Here's the NWA promotions in 1979: http://www.wrestling-titles.com/nwa/members/1979.html We probably should admit that Central States wasn't the worst of the bunch. Fundamentals out of New Mexico? Fred Ward Promotions in freaking Macon? Here's 76: http://www.wrestling-titles.com/nwa/members/1976.html Eastern Sports Association in New Brunswick? Central States was low on the list, but there were other arm pits of pro wrestling.

There still was in 1983 a lot of "old Soviet hardline" mindset in the USA. Keep in mind RR's Evil Empire speach came later in the year - March 8, 1983 to be exact: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_empire That's certainly something you can work in... looks like it's just a few weeks away from how far you've gotten so far. "Second week of March" type of thing, and Ivan probably is pissed off about it. As a side note, I don't know if you can get a screen cap out of this: Like pausing about 0:06 in as Gordon has just moved the mic over to Ivan. Might actually be able to pause several times for several different caps of different expressions of Ivan. 0:14 has Gordon still in the picture, and Ivan pointing to himself for emphasis. Anyway...

I didn't say you were so stupid that you didn't know the General Secretary was dead. The Bigger Fool test is: (i) wrestling fans too stupid to know any better (ii) booker who thinks his fans are too stupid to know any better It's entirely possible that the booker is correct: wrestling fans might be too stupid to remember that Brezhnev dropped just a month and a half ago. But if he's wrong, he's running an angle where fans would go, "Wait... what the fuck?" I don't know when your were born, Jerry... or how old you were when Brezhnev dropped dead, and whether at the time it registered at all with you. I can only speak for myself: I was 16 and Brezhnev was the Boss of the USSR my entire life up to that point. We'd ran through five Presidents by that point (LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter and RR), and the constant in the USA vs USSR feud in my lifetime was Brezhnev. Hell, by 1982 even the space race was dead, and the fear of nuclear war was mostly dead because things like SALT 1 & 2. Brezhnev dropping dead was kind of big in the media at the time. Granted... pro wrestling fans in the NWA Territories and the WWF might have been too stupid to notice. I'm sure Russo would have bet on it. John

"He blinked! Comrade Brezhnev isn't dead!" Death and state funeral of Leonid Brezhnev Wait... this is great shit: I mean... it's disputed, but funny as shit. Or this: That's easy to rebook: This shit writes itself: The Russian Bear is on a mission to honor the death of the great General Secretary In turn, President Reagan has instructed Bob Backlund and Ric Flair to uphold the Honor of America against the Evils of Communism via Pro Wrestling. "Gordon... I may not like Backlund, but when the President of the USA asks you to stop some commie bastards from ruining the U S of A, you listen." John

I agree that it makes for a classic Bigger Fool test: the wrestling fans who are too stupid to know that Brezhnev is dead, or the booker.

It wasn't a knock. More in the sense that the old thread is a refresher on what some of us came up with several years back. I couldn't even remember the year and matches I came up with, nor how the promotions were screwing each other. Plus, ever few years folks change their minds on what would be on their cards. Nothing wrong with hitting it again... was just wondering what in the heck we came up with last time.

The indie cred is funny. It's like Stone Cold wanting to get over with the ROH folks after his run with the WWE. I don't give two shits about Cyrus, but she was drawing huge for four years as the main eventer on Disney Channel, and you're head will hurt if you go count up the number of #1 albums she had (under her own banner and the Hannah brand) while the show was running. Here first album as the show was coming to the end of production was a bomb relative to those, and it's now been three years since she's released an album. One gets the feeling that she's Kurt Angle. The WWE/Disney got the peak and best of their careers, while other will get the trainwreck part of the career.

I didn't think Miley covered this:

"General Secretary Leonid Brezhnev is still dead." "Indeed."

Yep... Build A Show Damn... I really worked the "politics" aspect of it. Loved Choshu and Saitoh bullshiting Tenryu and blaming it all on Sak. John "I hate that cocksucker Maeda. Fuck him too." -Riki

I think we had a thread along these lines before. I thought I have a creative way to do it that wasn't spanning years or decades. I think one year in Japan, multi-promotional with the different promotions trying to top / fuck each other over. I'll have to see if I can find it... John

Well, clay doesn't lend itself to a viewer friendly brand of tennis, it's grinding and ugly (hence why a buzzsaw like Nadal has been able to win it 8 times) Take it up with Simmons - he's the one implying that the French is a Great Major~! since it's the Aussie is the one that needs to be killed off / replaced.