Phil Schneider

Here is the review Tomk and I posted over at Segunda Caidia http://segundacaida.blogspot.com ROH Respect Is Earned PPV PAS: I have been to a ton of ROH shows over the years, and I would like the company to be successful enough to offer guys I like contracts so I don't have to see them in TNA. If PPV being successful gets Samoa Joe out of that shithole, I will kick in my $15. TKG: ROH (for better or worse) is completely built around your long tail theory where future of retail is built around "selling less of more"(www.thelongtail.com).ROH was built this way before every music/entertainment marketing seminar was built around talking point that "future of retail is having lots of niche products for sale, instead of one or two really successful across the board products" and myspace stuff ( newmusicstrategies.com/2007/03/16/the-20-things-you-must-know-about-music-online/). I don't think Gabe is a strategic marketing genius and think he's probably just lucked into the right thing at the right time. That said there are allot of indy promotions which are funded by DVD sales (promotions set up knowing that they draw more income from DVD/video sales than they do from attendance) Gabe comes across a lot savvier than those other promotions. Still as a viewer, it takes a while to get past the paradigm shift. I’m used to traditional model of wrestling fed that runs houseshows/TV in effort to entice you to go to the big supershow or buy the PPV. ROH is doing the opposite as they are running a PPV whose goal is to entice you to go to the houseshows or buy DVDs of their regular shows. It’s a complete flip as I’m used to “A” being advertisement for “B”, and not “B” acting as advertisement for “A”. There are things that an ROH show does very differently then WWE/WWF/ECW?WCW did because they have different goals. WWE will never mention that Angle once worked for them because selling DVDs of houseshows/TV.etc with Angle isn’t primary goal. ROH PPV is full of mentions of Low-Ki, Homicide, Samoa Joe, CM Punk,etc because their goal is to sell back catalogue. I’m not convinced that this PPV was particularly effective at selling their DVD back catalogue, but I think it’s important to remember that that is the goal. Takeshi Morsihima v BJ Whitmer: TKG: Whitmer makes an open challenge, Morishima answers and YIKES. Why is Whitmer getting this much in on the champ? Why is Whitmer doing KENTA's flying knee strike in an opener when KENTA is working the main event? I like your Vader v Hashi or Shiga type matches but this isn't one of those. You could have had Whitmer get a run of offense without Morishima having to leave his feet. Or at least built to Morishima leaving his feet. But no. Whitmer is easily able to take Morishima off his feet and gets two sets of two-count near falls on Morishima. Two sets of near falls on the champ before Morishima gets off a big offense run. Just fucking awful match where neither guy comes across looking like much of anything. Lenny Leonard is doing the "puts everyone down" line too. PAS: I have no idea why Leonard is stealing shitty Gabe commentary lines, "Puts em all down" isn't even "Daaangerrooous" which at least has some kitsch value. This wasn't good, Whitmer getting to run through all of his offense before Morishima takes over is a terrible way to build either guy. Whitmer doesn't look good, because he hits all of his shit and can't put Morishima down, and Morishima gets bumped all over the ring. This stunk PAS: I thought the RAW in ring segment was fine, does a nice job establishing all three guys, maybe watching all of this Mid-South lately biases me, but Morishima really could have used Skandor Akbar to do his mike work. Rocky Romero v Naomichi Marifuji: TKG: Holy fuck this is mind numbing. They do eight minutes of meaningless masturbatory circa 98 indy superstar exchanges (mirror missed stuff/face offs etc.) . I don't know if you can even call the first eight minutes masturabtory, as this was way too limp dicked to be called masturbation. They follow that up with about six minutes of Marafuji works Romero's leg, which is followed up by five minute finisher exchange section. There were large sections where it felt like they were walking through this, like I was watching a dress rehearsal practice run through. If the first two matches were my intro to ROH, I would say "fuck this shit" and never bother with it again. PAS: Some individual pieces of offense looked good, and I get the sense that if this was on New Japan TV in the 90's and we only got the last four minutes you might think it was good. Unfortunately we got it all, the meaningless leg work, the awful strike exchange, the parts of the match where one guy was standing around clearly waiting for the other guy to hit his move. There was this point of the match where Romero is on the apron and Marifuji is in the ring, Romero throws an overhand right, which Marifuji blocks, it was thrown so slow and so obviously to be blocked, that we rewound it to laugh three or four times, honestly funnier then anything on the Flavor Flav roast except for maybe Greg Giraldo. This match was pretty much everything that is bad about ROH. TKG: You could throw a rock at any NE indy and hit a match worked exactly the same. For a formula match this wasn't even well worked formula. This was followed by a backstage bit with Tank Tolland, Larry Sweeney, and Sarah Del Rey. I normally really like Larry Sweeney's wink-wink Andrew WK hipster homage to 80s mic work stuff...but for some reason here it came off less as homage and more like just second rate imitation. Tank Tolland's mic work was pretty strong. Briscoes v. Matt Sydal/Claudio Castongnoli PAS: This was your basic big match Briscoes tag with all that is good and bad about that match. This felt like it was missing some heel/face stuff which made the Murder City Machine Guns match. Both Sydal and Claudio are fun heels, and some shtick would have kept this from being just an exhibition of spots. Still it was a pretty great exhibition of spots, Sydal is just a total blast, bumping all over the ring and dying on everything the Briscoes do, he may be the most graceful bumper in wrestling. Still Sydal is great at playing both cocky heel and underdog babyface, here he was kind of playing random guy in a Dragon's Gate six-man. TKG: This took a while to get going but once Marc got nastily dropped to the outside it just all came together and we were off to the races. Really liked Marc's goofy kung fu section with Sydal and think those two could have a really fun singles. Castognoli's new hair makes him look like a Dick Tracy villain. Unfortunately he wasn't working like a Dick Tracy villain. He wasn't working like a Basil Wolverton face either. Again random guy in a Dragon Gate six man. The post match pull apart was pretty fun. I could live without ever seeing announcers on camera, and for some reason Prazac and Leonard were in matching suits that made them look like they were in The Hives. Actually neither really has the stage prescence to be convincing as Sweedish garage rockers. Does Almqvist force his roadies into matching suits? They looked like roadies for the Hives. PAS: I don't think I have seen Lenny Lenorard before, he really looks like Downs Syndrome Don West. The post match brawl was pretty great, and you have to give Deranged and Azreal props for just getting killed. Let's hope they keep them around as bumping Project 161 Adam Pearce disciples. Delirious v. Roderick Strong TKG: This was first match that had a real face/heel structure but it wasn't the type of face/heel structure that makes sense in an intro show. This was worked like your fired up underdog babyface gets his revenge match. So it is a face/heel match built on the angry underdog face really dominating the heel. Face comes in guns a blazing. You don't put the big revenge bunkhouse match on the first show, because the face dominating bunkhouse match doesn't really give the heel a chance to work heel. This went too long for that type of match as it moved from being a face gets revenge match into epic feud ending match. And I would have praised this highly if it had a good feud ending match finish. But instead it ended abruptly and then had the beat down and second face/heel everyone comes out in a row post match. PAS: I have seen a fair amount of Roderick Strong and I don't remember him doing this many backbreakers in one match. It seems like he wanted to really get his Messiah of the Backbreaker gimmick over on the PPV so he did all of his variations. Tom really nailed the match setups problems on the head, the crowd was deadish for this which hurt the fired up babyface stuff too. TKG: Adam Pierce's fake Raven mic work did a nice job putting over BJ Whitmer. Unfortunately the PPV had a BJ Whitmer match and no mic work was going to change that. Bryan Danielson/Takeshi Morishima v. KENTA/Nigel McGuiness PAS: This PPV really need a great main event to save it, and this really did deliver. I have read people complain about Nigel just throwing lariats, but I am a Choshu fan, nothing wrong with simplifying what you do, if you do it well, and Nigel was killing people with lariats here, from all angles. Nigel's big match restarts are always fun, and I loved him coming back in with the taped up arm, and the jawbreaker with the bad arm was a great near fall. You kind of forget how good Danielson is, but he was amazing here. KENTA and McGuiness are two of his best opponents, and all of their interactions were great. The multiple reversal finish is a staple of indy wrestling, but Danielson may be the only guy who can really pull it off. The whole finish section with KENTA was completely awesome. The match wasn't perfect, for guys who trained together and work constantly KENTA and Morishima don't interact well, and the points where they were matched up were the weakest parts. TKG: Why isn't this being pimped more? This was really great and all about the pairings as Nigel pairs up well with both Morishima and Danielson and Danielson pairs up well with KENTA and Nigel. And the pairings deliver. This was also the one match where they really pulled off the face/heel dynamic. with Danielson working effectively as heel and Nigel's fighting back from arm stuff telegraphing "face". There was a section where Nigel lariated Danielson off top rope where Morishima just stood around twiddling his thumbs. Maan I'm beginning to think that the Double Takeshis stuff that I used to like so much was all Rikioh.

It is also pretty clear that Eddie was always a better candidate then Benoit. Comparable as workers, but Benoit was a midcarder everywhere he worked, and Eddie had the AAA run where he was an actual big draw in a hot promotion.

I really liked his PPV match with Flair, and thought he was fun in the most recent RAW tag, I don't watch RAW a ton, but I am not seeing the hate Loss. I would rather watch Carlito then Kennedy

Ultimo v. Sasuke is actually kind of an interesting comparison, breaking it down I think there work is comparable, solid second tier Japaneese juniors with spots of brilliance and relatively short periods as a top worker. Never as good as Liger or Sano, had days where they were as good as El Samurai Sasuke advantages -Actually main evented his moderately succesful Japaneese indy. Ultimo was a junior atraction in WAR, and was mostly working undercards in Toryumon. Sasuke was the man in MPRO, doesn't mean a ton, but it is in his favor -Political career, he is clearly a joke candidate, but he did win a congressional seat. I think it would closer to the prestige of a State Legislator then a Congressman, but I imagine he has more widespread fame in Japan among non wrestling fans then Ultimo, even as just the stupid embarrasment in the mask. Ultimo advantages -Had runs as interchangeble undercard junior in WCW and as interchangable trios piece in EMLL. Sasuke's runs in ECW and EMLL are much less impressive, although I don't think either his Mexico or US runs mean much. -Training, I think it is inarguable that the Toryuman guys mean more then Hayato Jr. Fujita and Rasse, still I can't see training a bunch of indy guys who have achieved Japaneese cult fame really meaning that much. So I think it comes down to whether you value joke political fame over training sideshow attractions. I could see going either way.

Ultimo is such a shitty pick that it is a mistake to use him as the new bar, sure if Ultimo is in, Sasuke is in, Hamada is a no brainer, Sano, Samurai, Ohtani, you got to let in damn near everyone

Jesus you would think that someone who hates black people would be able to tell them apart from Italians.

I call bullshit on the "they never hit me" stuff. What kind of woman gets in multple relationships with wife abusers, who never abuser her? She must actually be a pretty big cunt if the next woman takes her beating.

The plan always involved losing money and shit's really expensive in Japan. I had no idea the tours lined up like that, I just had it in my head from the original idea that they'd be losing money. Shit being expensive in Japan would include wrestling tickets and wrestling DVD's, so I imagine their gate and merch sales were bigger too.

Do we know exactly how much the ROH show cost to put on? Main added expense would be plane tickets, but Briscoes, American Dragon, Davey Richards, Rocky Romero, Nigel, Jimmy Rave,Sydal and Jack Evans were already on either NOAH or DG tours before or after the show, so I assume trans was paid by the Japaneese promotions. So they flew over Delerious, Strong, Whitmer and some office guys. They drew pretty well in both places, and I assume they sold a bunch of merch, so why do we think they lost much money at all?

Wouldn't more accurately be called the "racist" card, I mean you are a racist not a black guy.

Matt Sydal is really short, like 5'1 or 5'2

So Sid is being managed by a guy named Johnny Rotten? Is he going to have a valet named Nancy he smacks around?

Necro worked Euro catch style against Chris Hero, and faux MMA style against Drake Younger. Still isn't what he is about

He had a nice backslide, pretty good small package, but Steamboat wasn't about technical wrestling at all.

What basic wrestling did Ricky Steamboat do? He was a guy who did some armdrags, a bodypress and shitty looking karate. He wasn't Blue Panther, he was amazing at selling, pacing and simple bumping. I would say that Steamboat would actually be a great guy to compare both Necro and Cena too. Phil

2.9 has become an overused talking point? That was something Tomk and I made up after reading a Zach Arnold translation of a Gong article. Man alive does that Kawada guy have shitty taste in wrestling, KENTA v. Morishima? That match utterly sucked cock

Meltzer does a great job reporting on this, but it is Meltzer so it is pretty poorly written and jumps all over the place, including a random shift into italics. While I think your piece is much better reported. Loss when you feel like you are done with this I would like to post it over to Segunda Caida, I want to restart work on that, but don't feel like I should write anything with out addressing this, and I don't want to write about it.

Just to add to this threads based on the WON article I just read, Kevin's points about paranoia are really spot on, apparently Benoit believed his family was being stalked and wouldn't let his wife leave the house after 6pm. He also apparently believed that the move to ECW was a sign that his career was over and he was being shoved out the door, this was true despite the working plan being an ECW title run leading to Helmsley program on RAW. Also the last paragraph of you article Loss seems pretty wrong based on the stuff in the WON. Apparently Nancy placed a letter in a safe deposit box saying something like "If something happens to me, Chris did it." also he says many wrestlers have noticed his paranoia and were worried about his health. It doesn't appear to be as out of character as it seems. You might want to also add a paragraph about the "family annialahtor" trend, the profile seems to fit Benoit to a tee. Great piece though, easily the best thing I have seen written on this.

A really good 70's Andre the Giant match, I will have specific suggestions soon

Harley Race v. Jerry Lawler 12/10/77 You don't hear this match mentioned along the classics of American wrestling, but I think this maybe as good as any long Flair title defense, and is the best Harley Race match I have ever seen. Race is great here but this is a Jerry Lawler match, he looks on another level here, like he should be the guy touring with the belt. The opening part of the match was built around Lawler grounding Race with a headlock, you don't really think of either guy as a matworker, but they ran through some spectacular reversals and counters. Lawler really controls large sections of this match and it actually exposes a bit of a flaw in what Race does. Race has a big arsenal of athletic bumps, and he is backflipping and diving on all of Lawlers early punches. This is a sixty minute match, when he is twirling on a punch in minute five, it doesn't mean as much when he does it in minute fifty. Lawler in contrast is really amazing at long term selling, his bumps really are much bigger as the match goes on, and he is spectacular at digging down for one last shot. One of the things I have noticed in watching Jerry Lawler matches, is he is a master at building to a big spot in a match. Race keeps cutting Lawler off with headbutts to the belly, after four or five times, Lawler dips back and kicks Race right in the face when he tries it. It is a great big of in match strategy, and is awesome because they set it up for so long. Of course one of the great things about any Lawler matches is the punches, and they are amazing. Jabs, uppercuts, straight rights, hooks, punches on his knees, punches from the mount, diving punches, jumping punches. Lawler has more variety on his shots then anyone, ever, and they all rule. Race also has great punches, but he never goes toe to toes with Lawler, all of his shots are kind of sneaky. He also throws some amazing headbutts, just killing Lawler with a standing headbutt on a rope break, and his diving headbutts look like he crushes Lawlers orbital bones. What makes the diving headbutts so great too, is that Race misses it the first couple of times he tries it, so when he lands it, it looks even more spectacular. Your finish was a little weird for a touring champ ending. Flair would often end his draws on defense, escaping with his belt at last minute. Race is on defense at this end of this match too, but Lawler almost throws too much at him. You don't get the sense Lawler was moments away from winning the belt, it almost more like Lawler doesn't have enough in his arsenal to finish Race. http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/

If you are talking about the Mexican mask v. mask match, the only video of it is pretty much unwatchable

Sounds good to me, I might even send you some DVD's of shit to put on.

Loss where fore art though

Here is my review off of Segunda Caida 4. Shawn Micheals v. John Cena WWE 4/23 I was shocked at the greatness of the Wrestlemania match, which I figured would be a clusterfuck, and I also figured the ubiquitous "Michaels gets his pin back on TV" match would be even worse. Instead the Wrestlemania match was great, and the TV rematch was even better. Shawn was the real surprise here. The opening chain wrestling section was embarrassing, and I don't know how a guy who has been wrestling for 20+ years can't execute a fireman's carry, and there was a section where they were going toe to toe with strikes which is a terrible idea made worse with Shawn's awful knife edge chops. However outside of those two things he was basically inoffensive. After all of the back work and bumps near the end of the match, I kept waiting for the heat killing Resurrection (you think the Romans could have drawn money after Calvary?) and his long offensive run. It never really happened, instead of dominating, you got the sense the match ending superkick was a last gasp effort, he is guy who has the equalizer in his feet and is never out of a match. It almost felt like Diego Corrales's big comeback in the first Castillo fight, a guy who looks dead landing that one big flurry. I also really loved his crawl for the ropes in the STFU, one of the first times his desperation selling didn't come off as cartoonish. Okay enough of that shit, because this match was still 1000% John Cena. Starting with his awesome reversal of a go behind, his crazy Dustin bump to the floor, selling the hell out of the arm, talking shit to the ref, ropes course crawling after the first chin music and right up to his KO selling for a 1/8 Chris Adams superkick, he owned it here. The catching the plancha spot is pretty standard, but Cena made it look like he was Charles Atlas. He also really came off like the top guy, like he was the man that needed to be dethroned, while Michaels was the underdog trying to dig deep for one more unlikely win. It was subtlety heelish, but if they keep it subtle it will continue work. I they need to finish with Micheals and put him in a feud with Mark Henry or Orton, someone he can really be a total face against again, but I like how he can play both roles so well.

He does kind of work a rapper gimmick. Maybe he thinks he is a race traitor?