Marty

That's really strange, Sek. On my copy of the 80s discs, I get "WWF" blurred out, but not "World Wrestling Federation". Really, really strange.

Some others that may not be "great" but still worth mentioning: Starrcade 83: - Piper-Valentine Dog Collar Match - Flair-Race Cage WrestleMania X8 - Rock-Hogan - HHH-Jericho On both cards, the two matches were both solid, if unspectacular.

Heh, I take it you bought the 80s DVD and noticed the "WWF" part blurred out during Hulk Hogan's victory interview, no? Anyways, I'm not sure of the exact details, but any verbal or printed mention of "WWF" is a no-no, from what I've seen. Any showing of the block logo is fine, even if they made a modernized WWE block logo recently. Of course, any scratch logo is a no-no. I think that covers everything.

If Bret shows up tonight, I want Loss to ban me. Just for fun.

Thank FUCK the Freebirds are finally in. Of course, with HHH the newest head-shaker of inductions, the HOF is dropping closer to the WWE HOF as far as value goes.

HTQ PMed me and chimed in with a few things. Some of this stuff I didn't know, some I did. My stuff is in quotes, his is in regular text. --- This wasn't down to Bret's ego, as much as it was his response to getting jerked around so much over the Survivor Series finish. It was nothing to do with Austin or anything personal or ego; he was just sick of all the bs going on over SS, and wanted to make a statement. I believe Bret asked for it, and Vince was willing to give it to Bret to get him. As for Bret refusing to job clean for Triple H, the first time, which was part of the European title tournament was Bret prefering to lose to Owen instead. At that point in time, his heat with Shawn was mainly professional. The second time, in the month leading up to SS, wasn't Bret refusing to job as much as refusing to do a job that made no sense. Hunter beating Hart wasn't going to lead to anything, and Hart's position was that beating the champion clean in a non-title match makes no sense if it wasn't going to lead to anything. And he was right on that, because it would make no sense to beat the champ clean for no reason, and it was likely only originally booked that way for non-business reasons.

I'm usually on Bret's side for these things, but, just to show that I look at things as objectively as possible, I do question some actions of his during that time frame. Most notably, why would he refuse to job to Austin during the six-man match at a house show, just before the PPV? That really makes incredibly no sense to me whatsoever and this was something Meltzer pointed out. After all, Austin is someone Hart has constantly put over many a time, aside from his on-screen character. Plus, Hart's never had heat with Austin. Also, it's only a house show in Detroit. You've heard of wrestlers no-showing house shows (many internet non-faves, and, yes, faves have done this) but a guy refusing to job to a guy who he likes at a house show that's not even in his home country? I really have to wonder how fucked up and egomaniacal Bret's mind was at the time, because I can certainly see how Vince would worry about the status of his championship after that. Also, and this is more of a question than anything, but I wonder if there's anything more about the creative control clause that Bret received in 1996 then what we're not being told. Did Vince offer it, or did Bret ask for it previously? The reason why I think it's very possible Bret asked for it was because of previous years in the company, specifically Bret getting shoved aside for another Hogan run, as well as midcard 1995 run, being in the shadow of the Clique. On top of that, remember when Vince told Bret that he'd get to team with Owen again after the 1994 feud? I often wonder if that would've happened if Bret didn't have his creative control clause. Not just that, but aside from Montreal and the events leading up to it, Hart certainly used that clause a number of cases, like the house show event, as well as (arguably) for good (refusing to beat Rocky Maivia cleanly) or for bad (refusing to job cleanly for HHH twice). It wouldn't shock me if Vince was genuinely concerned about Bret's next move, since for the past year, he certainly put that clause to heavy use. Those are the strongest cases I can think of for the Vince/HBK/WWF side of things.

Most of my thoughts on the news has already been mentioned by many people here. I'll let people guess whose thoughts and opinions I side with. I would like to switch gears and talk about the matches being discussed. --- Meltz guesses these matches will appear on the set... vs. Davey Boy (Sumemrslam 1992) - I just watched this the other day. Still really like the match. I have it on DVD, but I can see why Bret wants it in the set. Probably a good choice to have with the DVD set too. vs. Austin (Wrestlemania 13) - A no-brainer. Throw in the Survivor Series match, too, please. vs. HBK (Wrestlemania 12) - I can see why Bret wants this on here, but I sure don't. I already have the thing on the HBK DVD, and I can't justify using another hour of DVD time here, when that hour can be used for other matches. Sadly, I think it's going on here, whether I like it or not. vs. Curt Hennig (Summerslam 1991) - Very good choice. vs. Chris Benoit (Owen Tribute match 1999) - Already on the Benoit DVD, but I can see why Bret wants it on here. --- Other matches that have been suggested and are under discussion include... vs. Ricky Steamboat (3-8-86, Boston) - I've never seen this match, but I hear very good things about it. I'm all about the Steamer, so yay. vs. Randy Savage (11-11-87, SNME) - Excellent choice. vs. Ted Deibiase (3-8-89, Odessa, TX) - Never seen this, but probably very good. Rare matches are always good. This must be the Coliseum Video release I remember them advertising about back in the day. vs. Andre the Giant (4-23-90, Milan Italy) - Never seen it, but I doubt Bret could pull out a good match versus Andre out of his ass at this point of Andre's career. Hart Foundation vs. The Rockers (SNME) - If this is the match where Demoliton does a run-in resulting in a no-contest, then I'm all for it. Up until the interference, this was one of the best WWF tag matches I've ever seen at that time. I haven't seen this match in 15 years. I so want to see it again. Hart Foundation vs. Road Warriors (3-12-91) - Already on the Warriors DVD. Some fun heel work by Bret, especially the cat-and-mouse spot with Hawk, but I don't justify it being on Bret's DVD. vs. Ric Flair (Bret wins first title, 4-13-93) - Of course, but the date seems wrong. vs. Owen and vs. Yokozuna (WMX) - Owen yes, Yoko no. Throw the celebration, and Owen's reaction, on the documentary/Bret interview portion. The Yoko match sucked. vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (4-24-93) - Never seen it. Can't comment. vs. 123 Kid (7-1-94) - Definitely. vs. Owen (9-29-94, Bret's favorite match with Owen) - I've never seen this match either. Can anyone comment on it? I know Loss really likes a match they had in July. Is this one anywhere near that quality? vs. Hakushi (7-24-95, RAW) - Meh, I always found Hakushi overrated. I'll pass. vs. Isaac Yankem (Summerslam 95) - Pass. vs. Jean Pierre Lafitte - Ouellette can work, but this was such an uneventful time in Bret's career that I can't justify a match like this being on here. Maybe if I re-watch it, I'll change my mind. vs. Davey Boy Smith (12-17-95 PPV) - Yes. I haven't seen this match in quite a while. I remember liking it. Canadian Stampede Main Event - Definitely. vs. Undertaker (One Night Only 1997) - I've only seen the commercial release of One Night Only, which means I've never seen this match. And I hear so much praise for it. I hope they toss it on, and leave the SummerSlam match for the Undertaker DVD. vs. Goldberg (Starrcade 99) - *sigh* I guess this is apropos...

Heh! Oh yeah, Abdullah The Butcher's made the odd appearance here too.

Here in the Ottawa/Gatineau region, we have a promotion called "Canadian Professional Wrestling International" (or CPW International, for short). The promotion, last I checked, is run by Gino Brito, who used to hold the WWWF Tag Titles (as Louis Cerdan) with Tony Parisi. No real notable names to mention on the roster, aside from Pierre-Carl Ouellette, aka Jean-Pierre Lafitte and Quebecer Pierre. He looks in pretty good shape today too. The only other notable, that at least Loss might care about, is Conquistador #41. The website for the promotion is here: http://www.cpwinternational.com/

I pretty much agree with you on everything in this thread except the Gretzky comment. The reason being is Gretzky transcended hockey in the 1980s, and most importantly, in America, once he was traded to the L.A. Kings in 1988. I don't think Bret did the same thing. When he was on top, it was, relatively speaking, a down period for the WWF. What Gretzky did, OTOH, is comparable to Hogan's and Austin's effectiveness during their times on top.

Interesting list. I need to make a more detailed reply, but some of those snowflake ratings are surprising, as in, for some, I didn't think you thought as highly of said matches as you did. Again, I'll have to go through them later. Thanks for posting them.

This is some seriously funny shit. Thanks for providing the quotes, Loss.

For what it's worth, I'm betting Bret would've taken a squashing by Undertaker in Montreal. That's how low on the totem pole Shawn was in Bret's eyes at the time.

That's fucking surreal...

I wonder if they can eventually purchase some Memphis, Mid-South and other territorial footage. The money they can make from using their tape library to its greatest ability is mind-boggling.

Damn, I mis-read the list. I thought '89 was included (I remember watching the show from, of all places, a bar/hangout at a police station, and really getting into the match) but instead it's the crappy '90 cage match. I agree, switch '89 in for '90.

While the realist in me would like Hart to stay away from WWE TV, the mark in me would love it if he confronted BOTH Hogan and HBK on Monday, since he has perfectly good reason to be pissed at both. And then announce that he's special ref. In fact, at the risk of getting carried away, I'd book the ending of SummerSlam to be Hogan beating HBK, with Hart counting the pin. HBK getting pissed and taking out Hogan, then confronting Hart, then suddenly, the GLASS SHATTERS. Austin shows up, stuns Michaels, then stares at Hart face-to-face with the mic, and says, "I think back to the war you and I had back in the day, where you were cheered, I was booed, I was cheered, you were booed, and on and on. I don't say this too often, but there's one thing Stone Cold Steve Austin has to say about those days. Thank you, Bret." Finally, that's when you have your final goodbye that he wanted to do. After that, take the man off TV until the HOF induction.

Flair-Race is only on the Flair DVD. Magnum-Tully, however, is on the Steel Cage DVD.

There's got to be more matches than that. Good choices so far. The Hogan, Savage and Rude matches are good ones. I'd toss in the Savage SummerSlam 92 match as well. The Honky squash is a necessity. And of course, the Terry Gibbs is your prerequisite "First ever match" that we always see on these releases.

Just to let you know, since I probably own more WWE DVDs than anyone else here (at least the recent ones), the Flair/Race match has only been on one release. The noting of it on the Best of the 80s DVD was a false advertisement.

For what it's worth, guys...

Re: Tazz. I believe he didn't have surgery on his neck at all until 2002. That finally put him in the retirement category.

Have you seen his post-Great Muta matches? He's done well adapting to his limitations and using a whole different working style. I admit to not seeing as much as others (my comments were about those I've seen, of course). Which matches do you recommend I check out?

Undertaker: When I was 12 and he debuted, I loved his gimmick. The older I got, however, the less I was into him. Not one of my least favourites, but far from a favourite of mine. Arn Anderson: I was happy he was included in the "Greatest Stars Of The 80s" DVD, because I find Arn never really gets his due. Superb tag wrestler, and can go as a singles star as well. I remember watching a tag match was Tully against some other team (probably Tim Horner and someone else) and my dad (who generally hates wrestling) was really impressed with Arn's work. That's saying something when a non-fan likes your style. Juventud Guerrera: I really wish he would get his own life back on track, because he's one of my favourite lucha stars. Has been in what's probably my favourite ECW match of all-time (versus Rey on 3/9/96) and has had many fine WCW matches. I really need to see some of his Mexico work. Really above average on the stick too. Blue Panther: Haven't seen enough of the guy to fully judge, but the little amount I've seen, I like. Keiji Muto: I'm pretty much on the same page as everyone else. I think he was the greatest ever in 1989 or so, but afterwards, damn, did he ever slide downhill...