Marty

Answers after the "-"s... I haven't watched the Road Warriors DVD yet, but in the promos they always show clips from the "drunk Hawk" angle when they mention Hawk's real problems. Is WWE trying to suggest that angle was a shoot now? - Nope. They actually moreless mentioned on the DVD how it took Hawk courage to play the role he did. I wouldn't call it a shoot. As fucked up as Hawk was, I don't recall him ever being suicidal. On that note, fuck Vince Russo. Why doesn't Vince realize that calling guys up that everyone says aren't ready is the most counterproductive thing you can do? - For the sake of saying, "Look! I can still create talent!" What do you think the over/under is on Heyman getting himself thrown out of OVW? I can't see him not blowing up the first time a pet project of his gets called up to WWE and ruined. - 6 months. If Brock goes to SD when he signs, you think JBL will stiff him because he's been disrespectful of wrestling? - Not if he's smart. Lesnar could kill him in a shoot. The Boogeyman. Honestly, what the fuck? - I think it was the DVDVR guys who mentioned this, but he's make a good foil for Eugene. Really, though, that's it. Will WWE ever include a decent non-WWE match on a DVD of someone who actually had good matches outside of WWE? Outside of the Flair set, I can't recall of any. - Off the top of my head: * The cage matches already mentioned. * Rob Van Dam DVD (if you're a fan of his stuff, particularly the Jerry Lynn matches) * Rey Mysterio DVD (HH 97 match, BB 96 match w/Psychosis, etc.) * Eddie Guerrero DVD (HH 97 match, AAA When Worlds Collide tag match, FB 97 match v. Jericho, etc.) * Chris Benoit DVD (Nitro match vs. Guerrero, Japan matches vs Liger, Guerrero, Sasuke, Owen tribute match vs. Hart, etc.) Probably a couple others I'm forgetting too.

Dropped the ones that are out of my league, or maybe I'm out of their league: Booker T: Extremely underrated as a worker. Can work a match quite well as a babyface that it's easy to get on his side. The tag matches with Goldust are a perfect example of that, and Booker's selling of the leg versus HHH at WMXIX was incredible, to the point where it was really heartbreaking seeing him lose there. A guy who never gets his due as far as work goes. Tito Santana: An old favourite, and a good->great worker. Had some memorable wars in the IC and tag divisions. Not a top guy, but certainly has his place in 1980s WWF history. Hulk Hogan: Will probably make comebacks until he's retired. Actually thought he was underrated as a worker, until I watched the Hulk Still Rules DVD again. He was definitely a position on the industry back in the day, but I could live without seeing him again. Mike Awesome: I used to enjoy his battles with Masato Tanaka. Not as much more, and not much else I've enjoyed about him. Not a favourite of mine. The Rock: To put it in short: I miss this guy greatly. The total mark inside me would love another feud between him and Jericho, with Jericho being full-fledged heel again. Edge: He's as close to getting a main event push as he's ever been. It's now or never with this guy at this point. Nothing special about him as a worker, but any heat he's had recently hasn't been matched before and probably never will be matched again.

Crap! I'll be out when it's on.

That's generally the way I feel at the moment too. And ditto at other wrestling places. I've seen many, many people last night debate whether or not it was a shoot or work.

Man, the WWE does some stupid shit on Smackdown, and now we have this, which is the biggest potential money-drawing angle since Invasion, if not much earlier. Hope it turns out better than Invasion too. This is what this angle has going for it and where they have the potential to bring in some big cash as a result: The fans still have a real feel for Matt and sympathies towards him, but at the same time, all parties (from what we've last heard) are socially healthy enough to pull it off (while the fans haven't heard about the terms of said parties). They've hit that fine line where they can cash in on this. Let's hope the execution is as good as its beginning tonight. Matt Hardy's character is more real than Steve Austin's was in 1997, when he was getting arrested every now and then too. The presentation was off the charts too. I loved when all of security got Matt and, unlike an Austin arrest back in the day, there was a real chaotic feel, complete with shaky camera effects, like an episode of cops. JR, King, and Coach did a fantastic job of selling it by...not really saying anything. It was like it wasn't supposed to be part of the show. I don't think they mentioned Matt by name at all. Just absolutely wonderful. They need to follow up on this. If Matt shows up, no music, entrance video, whatever. He has the feel still that he's not with the company. This is the execution that Invasion lacked, the return of the nWo lacked, or many other angles like that. Because of that presentation (something that Jim Cornette has hammered home the importance of), this angle and storyline is giving me hope again.

I'm guessing that's an understatement too. To be honest, while it was a big week as far as news go, a few of those stories (the Hassan-Taker angle, the releases (some of them, at least), Cornette) as well as the product being generally bad all contributed to wrestling sucking the life out of me last week. It's also why I haven't been motivated to participate in the tag tourney, until today.

Didn't see this match until now. British Bulldogs, for the same reasons 'Helmet mentioned.

Fantastics. Had a better run with better matches. Rogers and Fulton were pretty much in their primes here. Austin and Pillman, while not bad days for them, had better days (Pillman notably in '91-92, Austin in '96-97, and 2001).

He's had typing issues like that at WC.com. Strange that it would appear on an update of his though.

I could be wrong, but I believe Johnny The Bull was released in the last bunch of roster cuts several months ago. There will be no comeba....errr...reunion.

Ain't the first they've done releases for that reason too. I remember the last time they did a chunkload of releases, and thinking, "You know, they have to pay that $250,000 to the Diva winner and that $1,000,000 to the TE winner somehow." I also don't think this'll be the last time they have releases for that reason too, unfortunately.

Which was....? I can't remember if he posted it here or at TSM, but he had a wonderful idea where Lesnar, onscreen, gets treated as a total outcast by EVERYONE, the wrestlers, the announcers, the road agents, the technicians, the ring announcers, etc. for "selling out". I don't remember all the details, but basically, some of the things Lesnar gets treated to are: the wrestlers not allowing him in the same dressing room as him, no entrance music/video, every match he's in is "non-sanctioned", no intro from Lilian Garcia or whoever, and total bashing from JR/King or Cole/Tazz. It would make a lot of sense, since what happened when he left and the perceived truth behind it got to the public rather quickly, plus it would make him stand out in ways unlike the rest of the roster.

If a deal gets worked out between both sides, I hope the WWE uses HTQ's idea for a storyline for Lesnar.

Apologies for not being around much for this. Match #5 - Midnight Express (Eaton & Lane) v Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko Midnight Express. Longer run, far better matches, more numerous good matches too. Also, Eaton & Lane were arguably in their primes, while both Benoit and Malenko were on a downswing of sorts. Match #6 - Demolition v Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith Owen/Davey. Demolition had the more notable run, but I can watch Owen/Davey matches at ease moreso than Demolition matches. Match #7 - Doom v Road Warriors Road Warriors. Hawk/Animal are underrated, in my opinion, as far as tag team psychology goes and flat out drew more money. Doom, not so much so. Match #8 - Rock & Roll Express v Dream Team (Valentine & Beefcake) Rock & Roll Express. Both guys were in their prime, as opposed to Valentine, who was fading at this time. Beefcake was shit.

After what's been mentioned at the Smackdown tapings and who was over, do any of you guys think Christian could work as a face?

Match #9 - Edge & Rey Misterio Jr v Raven & Perry Saturn Tough call here. Both teams didn't have much in the way of long runs. Edge & Rey may have had more quality matches, but I don't think a lot of the Smackdown Six matches are/were as great as many people remembered them being. Raven & Saturn still have their match with Benoit & Malenko to their credit, though. I'll go with Raven & Saturn, because both Edge & Rey have been on more significant tag teams than when they were with each other, while Raven & Saturn, as a team, may arguably have been both guys' peaks as far as tag team wrestling goes, including the days of the Eliminators. Raven & Perry Saturn Match #10 - Eliminators v Shawn Michaels & Diesel Going with the Eliminators here, even though I'm not a huge fan of the team (I like their finisher, but not much else after that). My choice here is how HBK & Diesel managed to bury the titles when they had them and never lost them, IIRC. That seems to happen a lot on Kevin Nash tag teams. Eliminators matches in ECW were never great, but they never shat on their tag division either. Eliminators Match #11 - Fabulous Freebirds (Hayes & Garvin) v Smoking Gunns Neither of these two teams do anything for me (this version of the Freebirds is a joke compared to the original three). Not a big of fan of Bart and Billy, but they win out here because they had a decent run from '93 to '96. I'll take the team that had a decent run over a team that almost completely killed a revolutionary gimmick in wrestling from the late 70s and 80s. Smoking Gunns Match #12 - Gangstas v Strike Force Strike Force, easily. Santana and Martel blow away both Gangstas as far as work goes, and had some decent->good matches as well. Definitely not a fan of Mustafa, and New Jack is absolute farce to the wrestling world. Strike Force

Hmmm, looks like I was wrong when I said that I'd be in the minority by picking Demolition. *high-fives everyone for picking against Hall & Nash*

Match #5 - Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko v New Age Outlaws I don't remember *many* standout matches involving Benoit & Malenko, but I do remember Spring Stampede 99 versus Raven & Saturn and how much I loved that match. That may have been Raven's greatest match ever, and certainly was one of Saturn's best. The Outlaws were never nearly as good as workers as Benoit & Malenko, inspite of their run probably being the best of Billy Gunn's career up until the WWF tried to give him a singles push in 99. The New Age Outlaws summed up the tag division in the WWF as a whole, with not much in the way of work being there, with gimmicks standing out more. Considering who was writing for the WWF at the time, that shouldn't shock too many people. Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko Match #6 - Demolition v Outsiders This is a tough call here. As a fan growing up in Ontario who had much access to WWF programming, I have many fond memories of Demolition. They weren't great workers, but as someone who originally had no access to anything else (including the Road Warriors) I'll admit to finding their image incredibly awesome. Of course, through magazines and eventual other footage, I learned about the Road Warriors and how they came first, but I still look back at Demolition with those same fond memories. They had some fun feuds with the Brain Busters, the Hart Foundation, etc. The Outsiders had a greater impact on wrestling, but didn't bring nearly as much to the table as far as good tag team wrestling goes. I may be in the minority here, but I'm going with Demolition here, because one of their members didn't contribute to the demise of a once-strong company, plus I just simply enjoyed them more. Demolition Match #7 - Doom v Powers of Pain Damn, both these teams had somewhat insignificant runs, from what I remember. Like Windham/Rhodes, I remember watching Doom back when I first got into WCW and, for some reason, loved Ron Simmons at the time. I don't remember much of the quality of their matches, but both members have also had solid singles careers, including a WCW World title run by Simmons. The Powers Of Pain haven't been nearly as fortunate, and, due to the lack of quality opposition they faced (except for a brief feud with the Rockers) probably didn't have as good of matches. Going with Doom here, due to the little amount of knowledge I have of either team giving them the slight edge. Doom Match #8 - Dream Team (Valentine/Beefcake) v Public Enemy Well, I've always liked one participant of this bunch. Can you guess who? If you already aren't sure, put it this way: The Valentine/Beefcake combo at least hid Beefcake's ever-glaring weaknesses thanks to Valentine still being a solid enough worker in his waning years. They had some fine matchups with the British Bulldogs in their run too. The Public Enemy? Well, as far as I'm concerned, the less said, the better. Typical ECW garbage brawling tag team. Dream Team

I love, love this match. It's great how both teams play face roles, but when things don't go the Harts' way, they play the heel role, and BOY, do they play it well. They work the tag formula very well here, with the best spot in the match being Bret playing cat and mouse with Animal, eventually leading to the Hart Attack on Hawk. Incredibly fun match.

Match #1 - 3 Count v Jung Dragons I'm repeating what many have already said, but this may be one of the closest first-round matches we have. Like many others, I'm going with the Jung Dragons, just because I think their time as a team may be the best moment for each member, whereas for 3 Count, it's arguable, especially for Shane Helms, who faced better times in January-March 2001, when he received his greatest push ever during WCW's final days. I also think the Jung Dragons had a greater gimmick than 3 Count, which was also a gimmick that has been done many times. Loss did a great job breaking down the members of each team, which I agree with. Jung Dragons Match #2 - Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes v Los Guerreros I remember watching Windham/Rhodes on many occasions on WCW Saturday Night and Worldwide right after I lost interest in the WWF at the time and enjoying them around my early-teens. Since I wasn't too much into the science of tag team wrestling (or wrestling in general) as much as I am now, I really wish I had copies of these matches now, because I have a hunch I'd be really getting into them now. It was at that time when I had a good amount of exposure to WCW for the first time, and I really liked their greater focus on wrestling in comparison to the WWF. Windham & Rhodes were a great example of it, as even as a kid, I got into their tag matches quite a lot. As for Los Guerreros, Chavo & Eddie are, as we all know, great workers, but their tag matches were never masterpieces and I've seen far better from other teams. Did I see better matches from Windham/Rhodes? Possibly. But I think the fair way to judge this was how much I was into the tag matches of Windham/Rhodes, whereas I haven't been as much for Los Guerreros, in spite of being a fan of both guys. Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes Match #3 - Booker T & Goldust v Nasty Boys The Nasty Boys win on longevity, but that's all they win out in, as even their better stuff doesn't hold up anymore (I recently watched Spring Stampede 94 versus Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne, and maybe it's because the garbage style has been so overdone since, but I couldn't get into it. I have similar feelings over Benoit/Sullivan at GAB 96). I was a huge fan of Booker T and Goldust, and their matches showed how well Dustin Rhodes can still lay out tag matches. It's a shame they had such a short run, because they could've helped revive one of the tag divisions, as opposed to Booker T being made HHH's bitch at WrestleMania XIX. Booker T & Goldust Match #4 - Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho v Natural Disasters This one is a no-brainer, even though I don't think the Canadian Chris' tag win over Austin/HHH doesn't hold up much as a great match anymore. They still have TLC III to their credit, which is one better match than the Disasters have had. Much like Booker T & Goldust, it's too bad Benoit & Jericho didn't have a much longer run, although injuries to Benoit certainly factored into that. Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho

Oops... (Yes, I thought it was a slam dunk case that Edge was going to win too)

In theory, that's not a bad idea. I found, with everything rather close together, what hurt the last tournament was constantly repeating my reasons for my votes, depending on the wrestler and who they were against. It won't feel that tiresome if we stretched it out like that, but I have a feeling most people won't go for it.

Those said people need to be brainbuster suplexed by Eddy on a really, really hard surface. SD match blew away WrestleMania one. Tough to compare it to Halloween Havoc 97. HH97 was a spotfest, but SD match had the same feel of Eddy/JBL from JD 04. As Dean Rasmussen mentioned, it quite nicely turned into a Memphis slugfest towards the end too.

Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes Brainbusters (Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard) British Bulldogs (Dynamite Kid & Davey Boy Smith) Demolition (Ax & Smash) Dudley Boyz (Bubba Ray & D-Von) Edge & Christian Fabulous Freebirds (Hayes/Gordy/Roberts) Fantastics (Tommy Rogers & Bobby Fulton) Hardy Boyz (Matt & Jeff) Hart Foundation (Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart) Midnight Express (Bobby Eaton & Stan Lane) Miracle Violence Connection (Steve Williams & Terry Gordy) Rick & Scott Steiner Road Warriors/Legion of Doom (Animal & Hawk) Rock & Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson) Rockers (Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty)

I actually like Al's idea a lot more than the poll idea. The poll idea is nice, but it doesn't guarantee replies. On top of that, I did most of the voting in the last tournament at work and constant replying to new threads killed any enthusiasm for me to go into detail, especially when I had a lot of typing to do at work later on. One thread for a number of matchups is a real time-saver.