Dylan Waco

We Want Divas. Classic

I actually loved what they did, though this beat down of Show is going on way too long

Why couldn't we get an NAO title run during football season?

Well that was awful. Far worse than any alleged burial of Daniel Bryan. I'm already pissed I paid for this show

God I forgot about Nash

Let's go beyond the safe zone. "Surprise entrants" - I will go with Sheamus, Evan Bourne, Taker, Bryan and Jake. Some of those are reasonably safe, some of them not so much. Most Eliminations - Reigns will win this, but Big E. might come close. "Iron Man" - This will be Punk 30th Entrant - Undertaker Final Five - Goldust, Punk, Reigns, Batista, Taker I have flipped and flopped all over on who I think will win, but right this second I will go with Taker. The key prediction here is that I also predict I will be wrong

The funny thing about Sheamus v. Bryan is that I think it would likely be the best MATCH if given time of any (viable) potential Bryan opponent. Still, I am a huge Sheamus fan (as a worker, fuck him as a character), and even I can't defend the idea of that match, at least not on paper. I will say that I think it is obvious that they are long term building to Brock v. Batista at some point. If that point is not Mania, it will have to be sometime very soon after, unless the WWE is fairly certain Brock is staying on for longer (I THINK his deal is up right around Mania no?). It would honestly not shock me if that was the Mania match. I also think there is a very good chance either Brock, or more likely Taker, will be in the Rumble Sunday to set things up for their match if the WWE is actually going that route

I actually really liked the trios, but I voted for Americos v. Kincaid. Everyone knows I am not exactly a fan of modern junior heavyweight wrestling. Jason Kincaid is a guy who I think has an abysmal look and has annoyed me to all hell at times. Americos looks like a cross between TWA era American Dragon and Art Barr. On paper it was a match that seemed likely be have some fun spots, but not good build, not a lot of rhyme or reason, and not a ton to make it stand out. Instead I thought it really built on some of the stuff they had done earlier in the year (and to be fair they did have one pretty good match a month or two before), and the result was about the best PWG style match I saw from 2013.* Yeah that is kind of damning this with feint praise because I am not a huge fan of that style, but it was still impressive, all the big spots looked good and/or felt like big moments, the near falls were well worked and not gratuitous, the match had a heat section, some real flavor to it, a rare manager interference spot that actually added to the match and a brutal and decisive finish. I had to vote for it, if for no other reason than the fact that it was the most shockingly good match I"ve seen in a while. Sorry Casas, you will be back on top soon. *This was taped on 11/16, a show for TCW that was actually really loaded, as almost everything that made tv from that show was at least good, and a couple of the matches were very good/great.

Rich giving Cesaro no love? What's the argument for Punk over him last year? Loved the Box Office talk. Joe's protest is the opposite of mine - I take Dave's argument to its logical conclusion and I picked Mayweather. I found the Kobashi argument reasonable and persuasive. I didn't vote for him myself, but I can see it, just as I can see Atlantis. I actually think there is some ambiguity with this award because the issue of drawing can be looked at a multitude of ways (who drew the biggest single numbers, who was most consistent over the long haul, who was a clear spike when on t.v., should the week-to-week nature of full time guys be taken into account when comparing them with protected full time guys, et.), but I am also not a big fan of the award being voted on at all because I think those big picture questions don't lend themselves to a "1,2,3" format with not detailed discussion or analysis. Strongly disagree with Joe on The Shield. I think Reigns is the most interesting guy in The Shield. I did love Joe heeling on Reigns offense though, especially the part where he stopped to note that he hates bitching about moves, and then bitched more about moves. Pretty much everything Joe said about Reigns spear and superman punch I would apply to Tanahashi's strikes and that shit bag hooking clothesline he does, so while he obviously doesn't agree with me in the particulars, at least I have proof that he knows how I feel. Also on tag teams, I want to be pointed to the good KES matches. I did like there match v. Nakamura and Ishii, but other than that I can't think of a match of their's from last year that really stands out. In fact, I enjoy them much more on paper than I do once the bell rings. I agree that both guys have gotten better (though I prefer Smith working catch holds, to the style he works in NJPW), but I actually think Haste and Nichols smoke them as a gajin team. Honestly Haste and Nichols v. Iizuka/Yano was a very good series of matches, with one tremendous match, and while I enjoy Iizuka and Yano way more than most (and I don[t love either to be clear), I think it speaks well for Haste an Nichols that they had matches of any real quality with those guys. Rich talking about Goldust being overrated because of his age is something you have to be really, really careful about when you are also arguing that the "people only vote for these guys because they are Japanese!" talking point is bullshit at the same time. I'm not saying they are exactly the same thing, but when I look at the big Goldust boosters they have been pretty explicit in what they have enjoyed about him, and while many have acknowledged that its amazing he's so good at his age, I don't think that is the crux of the argument at all, just like I don't think "well people only vote for them because they were in Meltzer's flavor of the week Japan promotion" is a serious explanation for the widespread support of Tanahashi or Okada in this years results, even if I know for a fact that there is some of that going on with the voting. I don't really disagree with Joe on Cody. I am glad people are excited about him, and I prefer him now to that god awful man in the mask bit (literally my least favorite character ever), but it really is jarring how much better his brother is and I think it makes him look worse. There have been isolated matches and moments when Cody has looked really good, and I think he has a very strong "hot tag" sequence of spots, but I am not sold on him as anything close to a great worker at this point. Rush should have won Most Improved last year over Okada, IMO as Rush went from being horrid, to tremendous. Rich's argument for Okada is basically my argument for voting Cesaro third in Most Improved, which is funny since that position was shit on as crazed seconds later. Cesaro may have been good before, but there was nothing in him that made me think he would be someone I would consider the best in the world, and yet he is right there as my likely number one pick for best in the word in 2013, and that's despite some severe handicaps that no other top contender for that spot had. Actually this was kind of a hilarious show to listen to because every time Joe or Rich called something mental or irrational or insane it was basically my position/vote on something. But even disagreeing with a huge chunk of what you guys said, it was a good show, well worth listening to.

At DVDVR there is an option where you can see who voted for what in every poll

All polls should be public

I could see a real argument for Hogan over Bob

Bad winner. We all lose

You were listening to the lance storm show?

Was NGWA where New Jack broke in Kris?

Only if he can come out to the babyface Sting in WCW theme music.

Honestly I think the Flair v. Steamer Clash VI match ages much more poorly than Bock v. Hennig

Even more importantly, no one cares enough about anyone on the roster to get mad about a show

Casas and Cesaro finished top ten in Most Outstanding I consider a win. I disagree strongly with so many of these results, but I think the one that I find the most laughable is Tanahasi as four in the Box Office category, when Okada didn't even rate. There is absolutely no argument for that

Boo. Hell I may be delusional, I think Walker v. Sigmon is going to end up in my top twenty-five matches from anywhere on earth last year, maybe top twenty

Glad you really liked that Cesaro v. Sheamus match. I loved it. I want to go back and watch singles Claudio. I liked some of it at the time, but was never a huge fan. Having said that I was the opposite of Will - I really didn't like KOW at all. I will say that during that period where ROH was doing ppvs, I had some friends who are wrestling fans but not super hardcores (the degrees of fandom is hard to track) and Claudio was by FAR their favorite guy in ROH.

I think John is pretty good, but when you have Thatcher right there it's not favorable to him as a comparison.

If I remember correctly, Tony Atlas credited George with virtually all of his success.

Have zero problem with the move myself. In fact Michael Tarver used a version of that move when he was on NXT as a finish IIRC. For the record Cobb does do the Scott Steiner backflip powerslam as well.