Dylan Waco

Hell I'll listen to that argument, Keomuka is a guy who has been unexplored despite being very well regarded in certain circles. I just hope people will be open minded with their votes. Obviously I have my guys who I push for, but it's not just about them getting in to me, it's about them and others not being dismissed for silly reasons.

I'm hardly an advocate of The Andersons, but what about them makes them unappealing? Becker should be on the ballot, but he'd likely fall off immediately.

Last year there was some talk about whether or not anyone who had worked all and/or the bulk of their career in TNA could ever even be considered a serious contender, let alone get in. Dave mentioned that AJ would be eligible this year and he had thought about putting him on the ballot but didn't want to do it if he couldn't get at least one person to commit to voting for him. At the time everyone was balking, my guess is a voter heard the audio in question and said "I'd vote for AJ" so Dave added him to the ballot

No, note even close. I did think it was a strong tv match and a hell of a performance by Zayn. There are things about his mannerisms and reactions that I still find a bit hammy, but here is the thing - it works. He's over as fuck and I would say that if you are someone who is heavily effected by crowd reaction I could see thinking the Swagger match was better. Still I thought the psychology of the 2/3 Falls match with Cesaro took it to a whole different level than the Swagger match.

I'm not so sure, but I would say she's the closest to his level mentioned so far. The thing is someone must have said they would vote for Styles, because Dave said he asked around about him but didn't include him initially because he couldn't find anyone who was actually saying they would vote for him. To Grimmas point, I actually don't think Jimmy Hart will get in. With the five candidate cut off for non-performers (probably a good idea to be honest), I think you will see a lot of people go with their pet picks and Jimmy was a guy who people didn't even realize had never been on the ballot until last year. Also I don't get the sense that Dave is going to push for him to near the degree he pushed for Albano, and while I think it is wrong to assume that Dave dictates who will get in (hell look at how many people here have ballots at this point, at least nine people, probably more), I do think guys like that need at least someone prominent pleading their case to have a real shot.

Rey is someone you could argue for influence, drawing power and work. Jericho shouldn't be in in my view (though I don't think he's completely awful as a candidate). Michaels got in way to soon and is probably in for just work alone because of WHEN he got in, but you can justify is case after the fact (absurd sure, but the point is if you tossed him out he would get voted back in on merit right away). Sabu was a much better candidate than Styles, if you buy the influence argument. Even Kane feels considerably stronger.

I would never argue for the Dudleys, but I think they were clearly better candidates than Styles. Looking at this I actually think with the exception of Lucha, the guys with the really strong cases are pretty spread out. Looking specifically at my pet project Patera, I'd say he's no worse than the third best candidate in U.S. modern performers. I'd rate him slightly below Koloff I think and could flip a coin with him and the RnR's.

Who do you have in mind specifically? I hate to make the comparison because Benoit was Benoit and Bastien by all accounts was one of the most decent humans ever in the wrestling business but he is the first guy that comes to mind. I'll be the first to say I'm hardly an expert on the career of Red (though I've come across him a lot when reviewing results among other things), but was Bastien ever a top of the card guy the way Benoit was for a few years? My point here what would be the peripheral arguments for Bastien? Pretty much every guy in for work/performance that I can think of has something like "he was on top for a while" or "he was influential" or some other such thing to "bolster" their case even if we all know it was primarily work that got them in. Dave and I discussed this on our HoF podcast with Kurt Brown last year, but I could almost see an argument for guys like Red Bastien and Sputnik Monroe for reasons that have nothing to do with the traditional metrics, though I can't say that argument would compel me to vote for either if I had a ballot

I'm annoyed with myself because it's unlikely I am going to have time to do any more Patera geek stuff, but what can you do. I know he won't get in this year, but I hope he doesn't fall off the ballot. A.J. Styles has to be the weakest guy ever to be on the ballot right? On Bastien I wouldn't vote for him but there isn't a single wrestler I would vote for solely on work alone. More later I'm sure

Dave and I have discussed asking him to come on WC

There is also a difference between a quick, tight, spotfest that is presented that way and a match with dare I say it, "meaningless depth" that "builds" to pointless back and fourth spots, where the endgame appears to be to collect as many nearfalls as possible before the match finally ends

Other regular posters could have been Joshua, Spanky, me, Matt Talbot (SweetJesusFreak) or possibly one or two others. That is my entire contribution to this thread and I have no memory of the debate in question

I think that or the Negro Casas, Mr. Aguila & Rey Bucanero vs. Blue Panther, Rush & Maximo 7/14 match are the two best, but really every time they hook up is great. The most recent trios involving them may have had the best single exchange between the two.

Canada is a town?

Don't encourage that guy

Thanks for the link. I've seen another Kahagas v Wilcott match this year and it was one of the worst Kahagas matches I've seen this year (unlike you I'm pretty high on him, actually I wonder if you would like his match Korey Chavis but I digress) and I hate Carson and he has dragged down other favorites of mine before. Still I really want to see the show, so I think I'm going to pick it up in a few weeks

Were you at the Boesch show? I know it was supposed to be released on DVD but I don't know if it ever was. I wanted to see the tag match and Conway v. Masters, but don't remember what the rest of the card was like.

Just wanted to say I thought the preface before the match reviews was really good analysis and the sort of thing that will draw readers to the site even when they may not agree with your take on the matches themselves (I look at the site pretty regularly anyway, but this impressed me so...). Good work. Also I am way more excited then I should be for Liger v. Rob Conway and that first eight man elimination looks like a match I could really enjoy.

I would note that I am actually a pretty big fan of a lot of the things the WWE does and I am far from angry about the direction of the Bryan storyline, I just don't like the way some of it has been executed.

Totally disagree with Will here. Christian was always good, though in a more Brad Armstrong-y way.

The Patera v. Backlund stuff is great. Not as good as Rose v. Martel, but still great

The best stuff in 80 was in Portland. Probably my top three matches of that year are from there.

I will answer when I'm not stealing computer time at work, but I would note that there is a big difference between a storyline paying off in a way you don't like but it makes sense and advances the careers or broader strength of a show and storylines that are lazily put together and peter out without helping anyone (and often hurting people in the process)

I learned at the young age of 13 to not expect what I want when Muraco won the cage match against Snuka. That's not even close to what I mean.

And truly, those people are a minority who for the most part aren't filling those seats and buying shit. What do you base this on? I'm asking this quite seriously because one thing that I notice in my discussions with casuals (which are pretty constant because I"m a completely uncloseted fan) they are FAR more down on storylines in the modern WWE than I am, let alone you. It's true that most of the children fans are going to pester their parents to death to buy them shit, go to shows, et, but that is likely to happen no matter what because of how the product is presented, marketed and developed.