Dylan Waco

Long time habit probably because in my mind it feels like a proper noun even if it isn't. Either way it's neither here nor thear Why do you capitalize Christ?

Then don't.

This is pretty much exactly how I look at wrestling and various wrestlers, promotions, etc. I do really enjoy reading everyone else's breakdowns of why they like or don't like certain wrestlers and learn a shitload reading all of it, which is why I'm on here 16 hours a day. Whenever I try to break shit down it sucks the fun straight out of wrestling for me. Worth noting that there is also a big gap between the tendency toward super detailed breakdowns that some people engage in and the list fetishism and things of that ilk that often go with it (guilty as charged on the lists stuff at minimum) and saying "I like Ryback because I do." My guess is that most people who frequent forums like this fall somewhere in that massive middle space

There is no need to play the martyr card here. This forum is about as open a forum as you will find on the net in terms of range of discussion, opinion, et. My point wasn't that this place requires posters to participate above some sort of minimal level, but that the "I like what I like and that's that!" stuff isn't exactly the sort of thing that lends itself to a discussion/message board environment. That's not about elevating PWO to a biblical level, it's merely stating the obvious

Perhaps it went through late in the night. I will check shortly

Sadly it looks like talkshoe ate the the episode it claimed was recording and did record the "episode" it said it wasn't recording.

So wait, if someone likes something, but doesn't know why they like it then they're lazy or something, or just don't want to put the effort in? Alright then lad... No, but it strikes me as odd that someone would be interested in going on a message board to write "i thought that was cool" and then log off. There is an expectation in a setting like this that the level of engagement will expand at least beyond what you might find on Twitter. I don't think it is even bordering on pretentious to make that point.

I wouldn't argue against either. There are things about both matches that I don't like as much as some of the absolute best stuff Cena's done, but I think both are iconic matches in their own way and massive parts of the Cena career "story."

I thought Cena was outstanding in the Elimination Chamber where Edge cashed in after at New Years Revolution. Things like the RVD and HHH matches aren't at the level of the stuff above, but had intangible qualities that you only expect out of guys who understand how to work "big." The Khali match from JD is as good a carry job as I've ever seen in wrestling. I LOVE the Henry match from this year. The JBL JD brawl felt like the first time where he was really the man and was an extremely strong match for the style it was worked in. Really every match he's had with Punk has been at least very good. He was great v. Ziggler at TLC last year. I thought he was awesome as the FIP in the Shield six-man ppv match earlier this year. The Rey title switch in 2011 from RAW was one of the best tv matches of the last couple of years. I loved the Big Show feud a few years back which had two excellent tv matches. The Edge LMS match was really great and extremely underrated. That's all off the cuff without looking at a match list or even thinking about it all that hard. Honestly there is a shitload of Cena stuff that I think is very good and a large amount of stuff that I think is really great. As a WWE main eventer I think the reflexive answer for a lot of people is that there is no way he could be better than someone like Bret (or even Shawn in a lot of quarters), but to be perfectly honest someone would have to sell me on the idea of Bret being better at this point. Obviously if you don't think Cena has had great matches you will disagree with this, but IF you do think Cena has had as many strong matches as I think he's had and you are a "great match" advocate when it comes to analyzing wrestlers Cena is near the very top of his era and is someone that I could completely buy as a top thirty level guy

I generally don't think Lucha brawls are inaccessible. To be honest I don't know if there is a style I find more accessible than a Lucha brawl.

Definte "mark of either guy." Because I've actually been pretty critical of Christian since the heel turn in 2011 and while I like Del Rio more than some, I was pretty critical of him in a post on this forum not that long ago

The only constant theme I can think of in Portland 2/3 falls matches is that almost across the board they have an unbending internal logic that crosses falls, with things like first fall limb work paying off twenty minutes later in the third fall.

As an aside I really love the Big Book of Basketball. I'm not averse to trying to break down things into tiers more specifically but that would take me a while because there are a fuck ton of guys who I would lump into group four

What is off about 2/3 falls Portland matches?

You didn't even watch the match, so I'm quite sure you won't remember it, but it doesn't mean it wasn't very good

I think Adonis would be a tier four guy, but I'd have A LOT of guys in that tier. If we were restricting such a concept to 100 he wouldn't make the tiers at all. My thought on how these break down is similar to soup's. 1. People who I would consider for one and/or people where if they showed up on someone else's list as number one I wouldn't think it odd or challenge it. 2. People who I would consider for my top 25 or so and/or people where if they showed up hovering around the bottom of someone's top ten I wouldn't think it odd or challenge it. 3. Solid top hundred guys - i.e. guys who would certainly make my top 100 or so but could fall almost anywhere in that range. 4. Possible top hundred guys - i.e. guys who would have a reasonable shot of making a top 100.

Just off the top of my head here are a list of names that posters here or people who I respect have tossed out as either their GOAT or a guy they saw as an extremely serious candidate: Stan Hansen Terry Funk Ric Flair Jumbo Tsuruta Satanico Genchiro Tenryu Negro Casas Jerry Lawler Mitsuharu Misawa Yoshiaki Fujiwara Toshiaki Kawada Kenta Kobashi Nick Bockwinkel Rey Mysterio That's off the top of my head with little thought. This completely excludes Joshi ladies who have been heavily touted, a guy like Liger who had some huge advocates for years, someone like Fujinami who I think is an all timer that would rate ahead of several guys on that list for me personally (and is my favorite Japanese guy of the 80's), El Hijo Del Santo who has enough fans to easily fit in that tier, and probably others I'm forgetting. And then there are the Rose's, Dandy's, et. who I could never really call "second tier" with a straight face. My point is that unless someone is really narrow in their view of GOATC's, the "top tier" is probably no less than fifteen guys and possibly as broad as 25 or so. As an aside somewhat related to this, Cena is an interesting guy to think about in this discussion. Not to open up old wounds but the old "peak v. longevity" and "great matches" debates are things that really interest me in regard to Cena. Because it's my thought that if you put a ton of weight on Great Matches, Cena is a guy who rates ahead of a lot of people who many people would reflexively say were better than him

I think there are more than a handful of guys who you could credibly call GOATC's. In a way I think the "second tier" consists of guys who likely would be GOATC's if it weren't for lack of footage, or relatively short peaks....but then Buddy Rose and El Dandy would make my top fifteen, maybe my top ten and would be above a lot of people who I could see others viewing as GOAT types I understand and to an extent use these sort of abstract "tiering" systems when I do these sort of things, but it's really hard for me to point to who/where I would consider the cut off. A part of me says Ricky Morton is the bridge, but I'm not sure I can fully articulate why

Cena is one of the best big match wrestlers in wrestling history at this point. Just felt like saying that. On the particulars of the angle, I thought last night was very well done and generally agree with Loss with one minor difference of opinion - I thought it was stupid to have the whole roster out there. We can say "well they were threatened with losing their jobs" or "they were threatened by The Shield" or "they had past issues with Bryan" and I get that. I also get that the visual was meant to convey Bryan as the lone man against the machine (which is why it is psychotic to claim it was a burial or anything close to that). But in actuality I think it just made everyone else either look like pussies or perhaps even worse assholes for not lending a hand. They could have done the exact same angle with the wrestlers in the back after being "threatened" with job loss and I think it would have had no collateral damage. Also next week Bryan needs to completely destroy Brad Maddox. It will be satisfying, get a big pop, give him some measure of revenge and the heels can assholish proclaim that it doesn't matter because he's just a lowly middle manager anyway

The Shield don't need suits, they are Blackwater

Man Big Show is fucking awesome. Everyone give the return handicap match with The Shield a look

vs RVD in the ECW Arena. Hammerstein

I could see them doing Heyman in a cage above ringside for a potential rematch with Brock/Punk. But a part of me thinks Punk never gets his win back and that Heyman brings in a new guy soon for Punk to feud with. I am higher on Axel than most, but he simply cannot fill that role now. I'm really torn on what I think the better match was between the main and Punk/Lesnar. My initial response thought was Bryan/Cena, but I'm not sure I would feel that way on a second watch

1. There are times when no selling is fine or if nothing else is the lesser of two evils. 2. Anyone who has ever seen or been in a real fight knows it's nothing like pro wrestling at all on any level

Cena effectively said he didn't respect Bryan, albeit in a less than outright way. Bryan responded by saying that when he was in Japan he learned something that the wrestlers would do to one another to fire each other up for big matches. They would take the palm of their hand and slap the face of the other man as hard as they could. He said he would love to do it but he couldn't do it to Cena because he wasn't a wrestler. Cena slapped Bryan, who just laughed and refused to slap him back