Dylan Waco

The five you have up top would also be my top five luchadores and all of them would rate in my top twenty-five of all time (if not top twenty). I actually see almost nothing on here I would have any major disagreement with other than perhaps the term "decent hands" for the last category, but you are a tougher grader than me and that seems almost worthless to argue over. I am curious where you would rate Los Traumas (I'd probably put them in the Strong Hands camp myself or at least within that tiering system as you have it constructed), Super Astro (I'm actually not a huge fan, but I know some people love him) and Atlantis (maybe the most polarizing luchadore ever in some ways and someone I have no fixed opinion on). I don't dare ask you where you would rate Estrada Edit: Just realized I missed Atlantis on the first scan through what you had, but now I want to hear your argument for him in that category Edit 2: Did you edit in Astro or am I fucking crazy and missed him on the first half dozen times I scanned through this too?

These guys always lie about "going sixty." That's probably the most common wrestling lie aside from "we were selling out everywhere!"

I don't know how available a lot of PR stuff is but there really is a LOT of Puerto Rico I would argue for. I don't want to do full tilt with recs until I know how reasonable it will be to get that footage

I think the angle is great for Bryan, but terrible for everyone else Edit: Also I agree with Will's general sentiments, but I'm not sure you want children calling the entire roster wimps and cowards.

He tried, but that whole roster crushed my little girls faith in humanity so fuck them all

Is Pour Some Sugar On Me still in heavy rotation? Oh yeah it's like the Bruno of songs here. The living legend. I should book a match between it and Cherry Pie. Where would Hot Stuff be booked?

He clearly wasn't going to call Flair on his bullshit so he may as well have been. I think clown is right - wrestlers are always working. They lie and bullshit non-stop. Flair's brain could be (hell likely is) going, but I wouldn't hang my hat on that being the reason this story got floated

I'm not going to extol the virtues of Dibiase but I actually think he has a lot more potential than Cody

He's a good worker but relative to his reputation in the eyes of many, Curt Hennig

A part of me wants to say Sting, but I'm not sure that is entirely fair or fits and that will just lead to another long Sting argument and with HoF season on the horizon I'd rather hold off.

The phantom rises

What specific examples of spots in Lucha do you find overly cooperative? I look at something like the sequence around the tombstone in the Okada/Tanahashi G1 draw (which I actually thought was pretty decent as a match) and think "that is the fakest thing on Earth." I could see the argument for someone finding certain sort of Lucha matwork to be really exhibition like, but it is very rare that I see a mat based Lucha spot where I go "that is completely phony, to the extent that's not even credible within the world in which it operates." I say that a lot with your more convoluted sequences in NJPW

Where would you stand on Okada if he used any other finish in the world? I think he does so many little things well, and his selling is far ahead of many of his New Japan contemporaries. I think he blows Naito out of the water, curious to see where you stand here. I thought Naito had a lot of potential pre-injury, but he really bothered me in the G1. I thought Suzuki carried him to a good match, but I agree that his selling was really poor as a whole and even worse than that he's a guy who really only has two speeds - dead out getting his ass kicked or sprinting through his spots. I criticize Ibushi for that above, but Naito at his worse is vastly worse in terms of pacing/tempo issues than Ibushi is. Coming into the G1 I would have said that Naito had more potential for what I look for than Okada but coming out no way in hell I could say that with a straight face. I don't like Okada, but he does make an effort to sell - especially limb work. At times he does this very well, particularly within the confines of the style he works. I hate his finish, in large part because the countering of it so unbelievably phony looking that it drives me nuts. A different finish would help, though in general I don't think he's a terribly dynamic offensive wrestler. Of the NJPW guys who I don't like Okada is above Tanahashi, Naito (at this point), Nagata and Karl Anderson for sure for whatever that is worth

Another thing common to Lucha is the three rudos on one technico beatdown. This can be jarring for people at times because they expect the faces to make the save and they rarely do. It's something that I got over quick, but I also wish I had known about it before hand. Other than the Lucha guys and the guys mentioned the best guy active from the previous sets may actually be Ricky Morton and that is a pretty big drop off. Tom Prichard might show up on the Portland set and he has been really awesome the two times I've seen him this year so there is that. Totally agree on Dandy as possibly the most versatile guy ever and that is a point I've hammered home myself many times. On the surface I'd say it's either him or Buddy Rose. Great podcast, I just wish you guys had mentioned La Fiera.

Just watched Okada v. Ibushi. I actually didn't hate it, but I can't call it a good match because Ibushi is sub-Naito in his selling. I understand he's a highspot heavy wrestler and that in and of itself isn't a negative (hell some of my absolute favorite current guys are highspot heavy guys), but if an entire match is built around you getting your neck/head worked over the least you can fucking do is hold your head/neck in between reeling off big spots. Ibushi can't even be bothered to do that. I will say the match is far better structured than it could have been and I agree that Okada's offense - while still not terribly impressive - was focused. I still think the Rainmaker is the one of the most cooperative looking spots in modern wrestling history and I really didn't like the nervehold/toehold thing but this was still better Okada then normal on scale. It's just that Ibushi isn't any good

It was his anniversary show and he asked to wear the mask for it. That is an...interesting description of Hechicero v. Lucero (I am actually kind of puzzled how anyone could hate this match and like the old man maestros tag but I'll assume that just comes down to Casas) . I won't dwell on it either really, but I do wonder what on earth middle aged guys exchanging holds has to do with death match wrestling?

I will say this for August 2013 - it is at least conceivable that the best WWE match and it's runner-up, the best WWE tv match (Cesaro v. Zayn wouldn't necessarily be my pick but is in the converation), the best Japan match and it's runner-up, the best Lucha match and the best indie match (Gallows v. Davis is not my MOTY for the indie scene but it is arguable) all took place this month. Whether the quality reflects years of old is of course something that I would very, very seriously question. But given the world we live in it was/is a very strong month

Those two trios are fine, good matches, but nothing even close to outstanding. When I get home I will drag over some of my thoughts on August matches from WKO

Thanks for the recommendations. I will watch both matches. If you have any BJPW to pimp please do as well

For some reason I think it's funny that goodhelmet is lower on current NJPW than I am. The Ishii matches I think could be polarizing though I liked the most pimped ones a good deal and a couple of the lesser pimped ones a lot more than others. Nakamura v. Ibushi has to be the most surprisingly great match of the year, but that's Nak for you

I'm at work so I can't grab it now but it is linked in a thread at DVDVR in the Lucha section. I want people to be honest with me. I haven't watched Okada v. Ibushi and really don't care much for either guy. Should I watch the match? As someone dedicated to two grandiose projects I feel like I really should but I do worry that it will be a massive waste of my time. Also - and I realize this isnt' really the thread for it - someone suggest a couple of DG and Big Japan matches for me to watch. Those are my only two big blind spots of the year and while I don't like either company I should at least give the best stuff a shot

SLL did it with Texas Set and it was a great tool

Note that I am by no means a NJPW fanboy (though I consider myself something of a fringe fan in that I watch a lot of their shows and enjoy several of their wrestlers), but I still really liked the G1 as a whole. Best G1 ever? I have no idea though I doubt I would really feel that way if I went back and watched them all. Good stuff considering the fact that I really dislike half of the guys who were in the tourney? Yes.

rovert forgot the match of the year between Rey Hechicero and Charles Lucero. In all seriousness I think it is way too much to declare it the best month ever but before the podcast gods erased it from memory Dave and I did a whole show basically dedicated to the end of July through the end of August because there was so much good stuff during the period. I think one of the key reasons it stands out is because it wasn't just one place that was hot, but several and that is fairly rare in recent years

Kansai is probably my favorite of the Josh ladies but I'm actually surprised to see her pop up in this thread. I have been so detached from Joshi talk for so long that I have no clue what the current views on people are. When I was watching she seemed a bit off pace in praise with some of the "top" names. Probably level to Kyoko Innoue which is to say respected as a talent but well beneath your Hokuto's, Nagayo's, Toyota's and Jaguar's.