sek69

Yeah it was hardly a decisive victory, so I don't know if the angle is over. I'm stoked for the continuation of Miz-Bryan though. I just hope when the inevitable Michael Cole beatdown occurs he remembers to leave the tie alone.

Adding fuel to the fire, WO is reporting WWE is specifically checking for Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson signs and that no one was allowed in the arena during the run through of the main event other than the people in the match due to "a big surprise" for the main event.

I found it very telling that the episode where RAW finally broke Nitro's 83 week winning streak was all non finishes. Between Undertaker interrupting all the matches to goad Kane and the main event of Austin-McMahon turning into the return of Dude Love, everything on the show was a schmozz. Ironically, considering the detour this thread took, it also had the promos building to the debut of Val Venis. Those porno double entendres that were so edgy in 1998 come off so forced and corny in 2010.

If I'm remembering correctly, he took those indy bookings right after the whole Tiepocalypse occured, when it looked like it would be a while before WWE would be calling back.

This is a fan letter to Jim that touched on some snide comments made on Eric Bishcoff's FB page and the responses. Hey Jim had a question I thought I'd throw at you. This was prompted by a discussion that was happening on Eric Bischoff's facebook page today where he was asking "who are these alleged young guys that draw money?" and then went on to say that hardly any of the guys mentioned count because he thinks your only a draw if you sell out major arenas/set records on PPV/do millions in merchandise and crossover to mainstream culture. He also said that besides Rock/Goldberg nobody's done it without 8 years in the business, and its very clear he meant 8 years in a company the size of WWE. His response when people named ROH talent was to quote directly: Interesting resonses.Clearly the majority of people here have NO IDEA what drawing money is. ROH is not making money on TV, PPV or arena shows. Its a backyard vanity project for marks. No disrespect to the talent who are working hard, but NUMBERS DONT LIE, THEY DONT HAVE OPINIONS AND THEY DON'T HAVE AGENDAS. Now personally I thought this was too narrow a definition and posted a few reasons I thought why and a few other things I thought should be considered such as talent that helps a regional company expand the number of cities they can work in and make money. He only responded to one of these comments and I thought I'd share it with you, though it has nothing to do with drawing, he ignored that: Graham-So with nobody setting PPV records, only WWE selling out major arenas and only Cena having any mainstream media impact, does that make him the only draw in wrestling? and if your basing it only on major arenas and PPV does that mean you can only know if you draw or not if you main event in the WWE? This definition is just to narrow! Eric Bischoff,-Controversy IMO social media has become the fly paper for the most vocal and the smallest percentage of fans. Most of the people who are the most active are losers/uneducated miscreants whose only validation of self comes from readng their own comments. 90% of the viewing audience have a completely differect pov (based on REAL research). Graham-well as charming as it is for you to call me a loser I'm not posting to read myself, I'm posting in hopes of responses that will increase my understanding. I want to understand how this standard can be right, it seems counter-intuitive, I have no problem with the fact I might be wrong, but if I am I need someone else to explain to me why I am, and this is a venue I may learn that. So my question to you is what I was trying to understand from him: How do you define a draw, and can you use a definition that only one company in the US can even achieve? And if you want to hurl a few insults at Eric while your at it thats fine by me Thanks Graham A response from JC: Graham, Traditionally, a guy who "draws money" means a guy who, when you have put him in main events or important programs, sells more tickets (or PPV buys these days) than other people who have been in a same/similar spot, and has done this not just once or twice but on a consistent basis. There used to be dozens and dozens of top guys who "drew money" in the territory days. Now, there are a few, and they ARE all in WWE. The problem is, as Bischoff either doesn't want to admit or is too clueless to know, is that the way people like him have changed the business is the reason, not lack of talent on the young guy's parts. In the territory days, the promoters didn't care WHO drew as long as someone did, they would push anyone they thought could draw, all their businesses were reasonably healthy, and they hadn't exposed everything/given people such bad booking and silly shit so that when angles were shot, they actually increased business. Now, these young guys are seldom put in the spot to draw to begin with because the "stars" have guaranteed contracts, and if you're paying someone main event money you keep them in the main event, so few get the CHANCE to prove they can draw money (It happens some in WWE, and rarely in TNA)--it doesn't apply in TNA to begin with as some of the biggest draws of the past 20 years work/have worked there and still haven't sold tickets/PPV's/increased ratings, because the booking and company structure itself is incompetant. Does that mean those guys "can't draw" because the company they work for has lost tens of millions and still doesn't make a profit of any real size? Also, since it's been 10 years since anyone in pro wrestling drew BIG money, not because of the talent but because of the shitty booking and poorly run companies, as well as the fact that WWE and TNA have made angles/big matches mostly meaningless by doing them too often, badly, and telling people they're all phony to begin with, someone has to be blamed--are these companies going to blame themselves, or their children or families, or "writers"? No--they blame the talent. Companies like ROH struggle because WWE and TNA have made LESS people, not MORE, interested in wrestling. He also shows his ignorance of his current residence in a glass house--if ROH is a "backyard vanity project for marks", what is TNA, since TNA has lost tens of millions MORE than ROH has lost in the exact same time in business, doesn't that mean that ROH is behind WWE but ahead of TNA? Do we grade by gross revenue or total profit? WWE has created an environment where WWE draws as a show, like the Harlem Globetrotters or Holiday on Ice, and the stars on a particular card mean less than they ever have. To truly have guys in the business who "draw money" again, we would have to pitch out the dreck like Bischoff and others who don't respect or understand wrestling, who think they are Emmy award winning "real" TV producers, ditch the comedy writers like Russo and Stephanie McMahon's comic reading college kids, and push wrestlers who win, lose and chase championships. People will watch what wrestling is now on TV for free, and a few hundred thousand might buy the pPV's, but ticket sales for wrestling will NEVER approach what they once were without taking those steps. That is why all the guys today who are actually draws, who sell live event tickets and PPV's in big numbers, almost all work for Dana White, the most successful pro wrestling promoter in the world. He just calls it UFC. Bischoff sees no similarity bewtween MMA/UFC and pro wrestling, which is why he is doomed to be a guy that was successful for 2 years out of a 20 year career. BTW, what other executive in any company actively dislikes, disagrees with, ignores and insults the 10% of people who are most dedicated to/spend the most money on their product or service? All of his "crossover to mainstream culture" bullshit is because people like him, Hogan, McMahon, Russo, etc are all embarassed to admit they are in the wrestling business (and the business hates to admit it has them) and they all want to be "real" stars--only the Rock has done that, but I wish all I named would leave our business to try! This is just my offhand impression of this nitwit's comments, but I think you're wasting time trying to quiz Eric Bischoff on anything other than a good hair dye, a nice tanbed, a well-fitting set of dentures and the current price of a 3 way at the Gold Club. Feel free to repost any/all of this if you want. Jim Cornette

OG = Oscar Gutierrez = Rey Mysterio Also I'd guess KA = Ken Anderson aka Mr. Kennedy and SH probably = Shane Helms. edit: didn't notice the timeframe, KA would have to be Angle.

I'm sure if it came down to it, even indy darling Bryan Danielson would choose working Summerslam over whatever promotion he's booked for next month. Not saying I think he's going to show up, but I wouldn't consider his indy bookings as ironclad proof he won't.

It appears that his failure to turn TNA into a viable competitor has caused everyone to notice Emperor Eric has no clothes. Nothing left for him to do now but last out at promotions designed to be small and mock them for it. Hell, I'd wager ROH is probably still turning somewhat of a profit while all Eric's been able to do with TNA is to get them further indebted to Spike. Come to think about it, we really shouldn't be surprised his whole game plan boiled down to "get the TV network to pay the contracts for all the big names".

Terry Taylor was doing a lot of booking for TNA prior to Russo/Bischoff/Hogan, was he not? That would seem to be as big a reason TNA went over the cliff as much as anything else.

I don't know how (or if it even does) translate to making money, but I'd wager ROH shows outdraw practically every TNA event ever not held in Orlando.

Also, I would think that with practically every wrestler who should be in (in terms of people who are currently eligible) already being in, perhaps the next year or two should focus on non wrestlers until we get to the point where more guys are added to the ballot that aren't borderline.

I would guess Lennon is in because he was a California guy and Dave probably grew up watching him on TV. I wonder if anyone's ever asked Dave about Howard, I recall back when Fink was named for the WWE HOF, Dave was adamant about how despite WWE largely was doing it for laughs he deserved to be in since he was one of the best announcers ever.

So despite being a WON subscriber for a while now, I never really checked out THE BOARD~! until tonight. I think the head exploding scene from Scanners would not do any justice to my reaction. Jesus Christ.....it's like a day care center for people who took the little bus to school. The only redeeming thing was the thread that had links to AAA/CMLL TV so I don't have spend time maintaining ratios at PWT. Ironically KidZombie was running that thread and I last saw him having an epic meltdown on Crazymax.

Well that certainly didn't work out as expected, did it?

If anyone was expecting any shocking revelations from Dixie (or any wrestling promoter), they deserve all the disappointment they get. I love how everyone calls her stupid and clueless yet they expect her to be all "my company sucks and everyone who works for me sucks".

As much as we criticize poor Bryan, I have to give him props for his line on WOL last night when he dubbed Bret and Cena the Jean Shorts Express. I LOL'd.

I was thinking about the Flair-Dusty wars of 1988 the other day and wondering who really ended up winning that. Dusty did his time in polka dots for Vince, but ended up back in WCW almost in the same spot he was before. He was able to hang around more or less with WCW to the end and now has a sweet gig booking FCW for Vince. Flair had his great 1989, but that quickly turned into the Black Scorpion fiasco. He then spent the rest of the 90s being driven crazy by various clueless Turner executives when not being abused by the booking, and now he runs around in his underwear in TNA.

I think it was due to most of the WWF braintrust being distracted by one scandal after another, and by the time they were able to put 100% of the focus back on wrestling, WCW had jumped ahead of them.

I would expect that Bryan or whoever inherits the WON from Dave would probably put him in the HOF at the first opportunity. As much as we give him shit (deservedly more often than not), I don't think there are too many people ever who actually cared about wrestling more than Dave. His writing during the steroid trials probably would have won him awards if it was written for a mainstream newspaper, and that's why it was really sad when you could see there was a point when it was obvious things were never going to change and Dave was just like "fuck it". You could chalk it up to youthful Dave thinking he could play some part in changing the world, but there was something heartbreaking over seeing the exact time someone's spirit was broken being commemorated in print. sek, do you mean Dave was specifically heartbroken over the verdict in the trial or just a general "The business will never change" way? A general "business will never change" way. He really poured his heart into his writing, and I think he figured if nothing else things would change since Vince came so close to going to jail for it. But when it was clear that the WWF saw his acquittal as a green light to keep doing what they've been doing, there was a noticeable change in his tone. Then like jdw mentioned, the late 90s turned into a grind for him, and I think that's what turned him into the guy we know today who sometimes gives the appearance of not even liking pro wrestling.

Que? There was a photo of her on WWE.com, someone posted it on DVDVR (I think) and after several "OMG SO HOT" replies, Bix had to be the one to point out that she looked like a tranny in that photo and the rest of the series that was posted. It really was hard to miss, and the sexual confusion that followed was hilarious. *edit* Loss posted it, I can't believe the dog-piling that occurred when it was pointed out she had quite the Dick Tracy-esque lantern jaw.

I would think that is something you could say about almost everyone involved in wrestling besides Vince McMahon. Wouldn't seem fair to hold that against Apter when it's the same thing that killed every territory. At least PWI is still around in 2010.

Hall, Roberts, and Hardy have all made public spectacles of themselves because of their drinking/drug use. Most guys are better than that when it comes to keeping their partying on the down low. Also how long were those guys doing what they were doing before it became public knowledge? All of them were in the business for at least 10 years before the really wild tales started coming out. The steroid stuff I agree with you 100%. I can't tell you how many times I would get into arguments with people who would insist that guys like Eddie couldn't be on enhancement drugs because they weren't ripped like Batista. Or that all the women on the WWE roster could have washboard abs (and also start to develop mannish features) without taking any kind of supplement.

I would expect that Bryan or whoever inherits the WON from Dave would probably put him in the HOF at the first opportunity. As much as we give him shit (deservedly more often than not), I don't think there are too many people ever who actually cared about wrestling more than Dave. His writing during the steroid trials probably would have won him awards if it was written for a mainstream newspaper, and that's why it was really sad when you could see there was a point when it was obvious things were never going to change and Dave was just like "fuck it". You could chalk it up to youthful Dave thinking he could play some part in changing the world, but there was something heartbreaking over seeing the exact time someone's spirit was broken being commemorated in print.

Not saying that it's correct all the time, but considering how widespread cocaine use was in the 80s among people with high incomes plus the usual connection between wrestlers and substances that relieve pain, it's not entirely a stretch to suspect a large amount of pro wrestlers active in the 80s did cocaine. Especially since, you know, a lot of them have admitted they did either directly or wink-wink between the lines style. You don't need to be an MD or have vast personal experiences with cocaine to be able to tell that someone is off their gourd high. I mean, I guess it's possible that Roddy Piper just might have had a lifelong struggle with ADHD, but I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that he just might have been riding the rails once or twice prior to cutting a promo.

So I guess in another week you'll come back and apologize like the last time you snapped out on the board?