sek69

I guess we could safely assume that top guy wasn't HHH.

TNA's my favorite promotion right now, it's not perfect but it's pretty much exactly where it needs to be at the moment. They've been smart to resist the "OMG GOTTA BEAT VINCE~!" mindset that drives so many would-be challengers out of business. They're doing their own thing and just letting their product do the shit-talking for them. I like what I've seen from ROH for the most part, but I definately agree that you don't have to be a hoss mark to notice they really need to stop having guys who look like the before pics in weightlifting mags in the undercard. ROH has too many guys who look like they should be bagging groceries in the opening matches. The too-cool-for-school attitude the crowds have irks me too. I like when fans get into the action but like savagerulz said it's like the fans are trying to get themselves over more than the wrestlers. As far as WWE goes, Joey Styles has made RAW about a zillion times easier to watch now. I always was a mark for him just because he reminds me of Gordon Solie in how when he called a match he knew the histories of everyone involved and the name of any move that could possibly be busted out in a match. Little stuff like him mentioning HHH's quad injury when his opponent was working the leg is something you haven't heard in WWF/E commentary since Gorilla and Jesse called the action. You may have noticed I have yet to mention the WWE in ring product so far, and for good reason. While there's guys who I dig on both brands, I'm afraid to get emotionally invested in anyone on the roster without knowing they've passed the msyterious approval test and won't just get cut off at the knees and released.

One thing I noticed in my newfound exposure to ROH is they tend to have a lot of wrestling exibitions, to the point of looking like the guys are in slow motion in order to ensure every spot is done correctly, rather than giving the appearance of a competitive match.

He apologized because he caught shit for it. He came out the day after jobbing to Hogan and basically called him a piece of shit. The Masters feud was a different tantrum. I'll believe he's grown up when he stops having tantrums over doing jobs or being programmed with guys not HHH, and demanding that he gets every job back. When HBK first came back and played well with others, I was thinking maybe he did turn a new leaf. Then he was back to his old ways (on a smaller scale admittedly) a few months later.

For the record, I don't believe for a second that HBK is a changed man other than being smarter on when to throw his tantrums. His actions on RAW after putting over Hogan the day before speak volumes.

You could have made the same argument about Mark Calloway in 1990.

Since I've tangled with people who think Flair > Jesus, I wonder how many of those opinions would change if Meltz would ever have covered stuff like this in depth.

I actually copied that from WO.com

Maybe HHH was making an in-joke by saying Flair's "not wanted here"....

Also, and this may be too high concept for wrestling, did Vince use that word to Cena to underscore the "wannabe" aspect of his gimmick? I didn't watch SS, just asking.

Out of curiousity, were you offended when Rock was doing that bit where he was basically calling people gay with that "italian word and side to side hand motion" deal?

Wrestling's always had a high threshold of offensiveness. Diehard fans have put up with so much foolishness it takes a lot to offend one. "Going there" racially is one of those things that still crosses the line becaus it's the one thing that even Vince has steered clear of over the years. As far as Lashley goes, I don't know if we can consider him buried yet, SS was pretty much fucked due to the card getting shuffled after Eddie. To me, they messed up with him by shooting the wad too early. In OVW he was just kinda in the background until he got tired of everyone's shit and when he finally snapped it was like a crowd-wide orgasm. In WWE he's an unstoppable monster right from the jump (until yesterday). There's really nowhere for his character to go except as Goldberg V2.0.

For the record, I don't think it was cool for Flair to say he was going to "Jap slap" someone either. This is just one of those things wrestling shouldn't even get close to broaching.

Ordinarily I'd say you're right but that probably wasn't the most offensive thing Vince did that day. As far as the word goes, it is just a word. I subscribe to the George Carlin theory where its all about context. The word "nigga" itself doesn't offend me, the asshole saying it to be a racist does.

It's probably not helping that SmackDown had more of the younger. hip vibe and Cena's gimmick seems painfully out of place on RAW. I personally thought that taking Cena out of the environment that was more suited to him took a lot of wind out of his sails.

Oh I know that, but he's always rattling on with this "the fans come first" bullshit when he makes it painstakingly obvious his pet projects come before what the fans may or may not want to see.

I find it ironic that Booker would be offended at someone using the word "nigga" in a promo. Vince should have been all "JOHN CENA, WE COMIN' FOR YOU NIGGA~!~!" I also found it ironic (especially after watching Vince's "we give the fans what they want" speech in the Warrior DVD) that they think they can just ignore the fans turning on Cena. I mean think about it, they turned on Cena so bad that now the heel can enlist the manager of a guy who got fired for re-enacting terrorist acts and still get cheered. The fans hate Cena more than terrorism.

There were a couple of segments where they went back and forth hitting each other with some stiff-ass shots to the head and chest so there was definately opportunity to bust some teeth.

I got this from goodhelmet today and was eager to watch the match that everyone is clamoring over. Did it live up to the hype? Honestly, I'd have to say no, only because it had that new-Star-Wars-movie level of hype that no match could have lived up to. I think a lot of the hype was from ROH fans having a collective orgasm over seeing one of their Japanese heroes live in person. Match of the year? Most likely. I heard some people talking as if it was the greatest match ever, which I'd argue was a bit of overhype. Having said that, it was certianly one of the better matches I've seen in a long time. You know how sometimes discussions here end up comparing wrestling to boxing or MMA? This was one of those matches where it would be an apt comparison. They'd trade blows like madmen to the point where you'd almost forget it was a worked match. You know how Flair can hit those chops that sound like gunshots? Kobashi makes those look like pussy shots here. Your chest will hurt watching Kenta turn Joe's upper body into an abstract art piece. The people who think Joe's a "spot monkey" based on his TNA work need to watch this match too, just for the sequence of submission moves he uses to keep Kobashi from reaching the ropes. He held his own against one of the world's best and showed why he deserves to be considered one of them. In all it was a great strong style match, great crowd heat, just great work all around. It comes down to two guys beating the piss out of each other, no sportz entertainment, no run ins, no soap opera. Just two guys trying to do what it takes to keep the other man down. Sometimes that's all wrestling needs to be.

Heels are the ones not allowed to do highspots, WWE doesn't want people cheering heels because they started busting out the cool shit. Carlito's been wrestling for a few years in PR before he went to WWE so I think he's capable of more than what we've seen so far. It hasn't helped that most of Carlito's opponents in WWE so far haven't exactly been ring generals, and the one time he was matched up with one (HBK) the guy decided to wear his pissy pants and sandbag him.

Actually when he was with Rick, he was part of one of the best tag teams in the US and Japan. It's only when he decided to gobble steroids like they were Flintstone vitamins did things start to go downhill.

There's been so many stories about Flair though, that it comes down to either Flair really is/was a dick backstage to people or a lot of people still have it out for him 5 or more years later.

HHH made sure to get Steiner blown up and made him look bad.