Coffey

This is pretty mind-blowing to me & something that I didn't think that I would ever say/type, but as far as U.S. wrestling goes (that has television) between the "big three" I think the order looks like TNA > WWE > ROH right now. I'm genuinely excited for Destination-X & Ring of Honor feels downright unwatchable. As far as shoot interviews go, I loved the PWDiary shoot with King Kong Bundy, but I'm a Bundy mega-mark, so maybe take that recommendation with a grain of salt?

I have been working on a list for about a week now. So far, Shawn Michaels is still on it. There's a lot of guys that are on the fence for me. As in, when comparing against Shawn, I can't really decide between one or the other. Kurt Angle, as an example, fits into this criteria. The top of the list is easy & Shawn isn't there. But when you hit the 30's or so...it becomes a game of "well, was he better than Shawn though?" and it's just really hard for me. I guess I just haven't seen as much wrestling as a lot of the other people here, but to me, right now, yes, Shawn Michaels is in my top 100. A big problem for me is that I've pretty much seen Shawn's entire career and when the majority of your career in in WWF, it's not going to be the same as those that are more worldly. Also, as was mentioned on the first page, are we taking everything into account as it pertains to the big picture, or just as it pertains to ring work? Because if it's everything that hinders a lot of foreign wrestlers to me because I can understand all of Shawn's promos but I don't speak Japanese. But I would definitely rate quite a few Japanese wrestlers as better in-ring workers than Shawn. Here's some of the (most basic) questions that I still have to answer for myself: Is King Kong Bundy better than Shawn Michaels? Why or why not? Is The One Man Gang better than Shawn Michaels? Why or why not? Is Adrian Adonis better than Shawn Michaels? Why or why not? Is Bam Bam Bigelow better than Shawn Michaels? Why or why not? There are also quite a few guys that, thus far, have been pretty universally regarded as better than Shawn, such as Vader, but I'm not seeing it. And I've seen a lot of Big Van Vader from WCW, WWF & Japan. Same with Steve Austin. Which then makes me answer all the above questions again but with Vader in place of HBK... Favoritism definitely plays a part. Maybe Shawn is better than all of them. Maybe Shawn is second to Vader but better than the others. I'm not sure. Here is a list of guys that I definitely have above Shawn Michaels: André the Giant Jumbo Tsuruta Randy Savage Stan Hansen Steve Williams Mitsuharu Misawa Toshiaki Kawada Kenta Kobashi Jushin Liger The Great Muta Ric Flair Terry Funk Curt Hennig Rick Rude Ted DiBiase Rick Martel Ricky Steamboat Ricky Morton Bobby Eaton Jerry Lawler Eddie Guerrero Rey Mysterio Jr. Bret Hart Tito Santana A few names I would like to talk about: Butch Reed, Bad News Brown, Jake Roberts, Marty Jannetty, Jim Duggan, Dynamite Kid, Owen Hart & Dean Malenko.

The ROH fans would just cheer Russo, Bagwell, etc. ironically and chant "this is wrestling."

I actually hate small package/school boy/roll-up finishes. Especially after a long match (like Savage/Steamboat). It feels like a fucking rip-off to me.

It's officially recognized, I guess. http://www.wwe.com/classics/titlehistory/worldheavyweight

I always remember the most random examples. I distinctly remember Triple H beating Jeff Hardy, I believe on a RAW, by using an old school style Sleeper Hold. Passed him out & got the submission victory. Batista's clothesline was established for awhile too. I think he even stretcher jobbed Jericho with it once.

It was during that bullshit with Edge when Vickie was GM of Smackdown and banned the Spear. He only had it for like 20 minutes, then lost it right back to Edge when Teddy Long re-instated him or whatever. I don't think it really counts.

Chris Jericho made his "return" last night and he didn't seem bad when he was making fun of John Cena's AWFUL Star Wars promo but I'm not looking forward to Money in the Bank at all. Shame, really, as this could very well be Jericho's final run.

I actually get this channel. I sometimes watch Psych re-runs on there. That being said, if this is just going to be another C-show that doesn't really effect any of the product in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. At that point, I would rather just have NXT.

That kinda sums up the ROH-bots though, no?

Neither did any normal person.

Genuinely excited for the release of No Holds Barred on DVD on July 3rd. I have a pretty big DVD collection & I have been wanting that movie for years. Joan Severance was like my first crush ever. Not because of this movie, more because of the Scorpions "Rhythm of Love" music video, but she was in a movie with Hulk Hogan & I was a wrestling mark.

There's an interesting conversation within this topic somewhere but I think it's more toward the middle-to-bottom of the lists than at the top of the lists. Rob Van Dam over Randy Savage & Bret Hart is blowing my mind.

I am only going to do a Top 20 (based on work that I have seen), so a lot of the older guys will get an unfair shake as I was born in 1981, started watching around 1986 & certainly didn't go out of my way to watch the likes of Sammartino, Inoki, etc. Bret Hart Ric Flair Shawn Michaels Eddie Guerrero Randy Savage Bob Backlund Rey Mysterio Jr. Steve Austin Triple H The Undertaker The Rock Kurt Angle Chris Jericho Jeff Hardy Brock Lesnar Mick Foley John Cena Batista C.M. Punk Edge

This thread sure took a helluva turn from the No Way Out Pay-Per-View!

This is great! Keep it going, guys. More help that I was initially anticipating.

Consider this a recommendation thread in addition to a discussion thread. I am a pretty big Adrian Adonis fan but I want to see more of his work. So I was hoping to get some opinions and recommendations from more knowledgeable people. How much of his older stuff is even readily available? I would definitely like to see more of his tag team stuff with Jesse Ventura and his AWA stuff as a whole, really. Are there any good matches with Backlund? What about his bald-headed return to the AWA in the late 80's? I know he put on quite a bit of weight but was there anything good, worth seeking out? It's a damn shame that he died so young. "Good night, Irene!"

Does it really matter who it is coming from? Michael Cole is still the one that hears it in his headset and says it live, on the air, for millions of people to hear. Did Tony Schiavone get a break over his "asses in seats" comment because someone fed him the line? Did someone even feed him the line? Michael Cole still takes the blame in my book.

The place I was watching with, had a couple of buddies over, and they all blew up at Cole too. One actually stopped watching over it. Michael Cole really hurts the product and anyone that argues that the commentators can't help or hurt a show is a fucking moron.

I agree completely and I don't think my arguments for why have really changed all that much over time either. The only thing that has really changed, in my opinion, is that the roster is more thin now than it even was back when I was asking for it a few years ago. First of all, and this point isn't real strong or anything, but it is pretty annoying having to explain to someone in detail who the world champion is. Before, you could just answer with a name. Now, you have to explain the brand extension, Smackdown, RAW & give two names. It doesn't come up all that often but when someone knows I'm a fan, they'll say something like "Oh, I used to watch that. Who's the champ?" UGH. "Well..." Secondly, a lot of people have said things in the past relating to "without the brand extension, less people will get TV or get over" which I don't think is true. Would Daniel Bryan be a former World Heavyweight Champion? Would The Great Khali? I don't know. But the show is still dominated by John Cena, even without the title, and WWE Champion C.M. Punk still plays second fiddle to him. I would rather have one credible champion than two non-credible midcard champions. I agree with skinsfan87 in that the second belt to headline a second tour should be the Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship of the World (as Randy Savage would call it). And finally, it would give WWE a reason to actually make a new title to get rid of the non-spinning spinner title. I just really dislike the design and always have and this is a pretty selfish reason.

I was watching Rick Rude Vs. Hiroshi Hase on YouTube in Japan and I fell out when I saw that Rude's tights said "JAPS SUCK" on them.

I don't think that you honestly believe this.

I was too. Honestly, I think I was really deflated by Sheamus retaining in the curtain jerk. I mean, I guess I knew that Sheamus was going to retain, especially since Dolph was added last minute, but I was still hoping for the swerve and Ziggler win. And maybe even a babyface turn. Then we get things like the diva match and the 8-jobber tag and I just checked out mentally.

I would argue, maybe even controversially, that outside of being a mid-card comedy act, no one has ever given a shit about Christian. He's boring as fuck and the harsh reality is, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter that much how good of a worker you are. Unless you're so painfully bad that you can't really do ANYTHING right, the crowds are pretty forgiving. Especially to people that can make them laugh. But Christian as a serious competitor and a former World Champion? NOPE.

Hypothetical question but since WWE is publicly traded now what does any of this mean for shareholders? If WWE owns the entire video library of all U.S. wrestling for the most part, it's considered an asset, I would imagine. But after Vince McMahon dies, where are all of his shares going? Because something like the video libraries is obviously never going to be sold off. But what if someone other than a McMahon becomes the majority share-holder somehow? I'm so ignorant toward big business it's hilarious. I have NO IDEA how ANY of that shit works. Heh.