JerryvonKramer

Orton has a really stand out performance tagging with Jimmy Valiant against Jack and Jerry Brisco that I reviewed recently. It's from Crockett around 83. Anyone thinking about Orton needs to see that. They work double heat with Orton as FIP in both stretches.

Heenan's case has to be built primarily on his performances in those 70s cage matches from Chicago with anything he did in the 80s as supplemental (Survivor Series 89 adds to his case). His character work, bumping and blade jobs are off the charts, I don't think a top 100 placement is impossible for him. In fact, I might have been the original nominator.

I only mention that because I think Ted has some of the best punches in the business, and is consistently underrated on that front. Am very curious to see the Earthquake vs Bossman match though because it sounds great!

Dibiase had better punches in 1990.

Not really saying that discussion of modern stuff should be shut down, but more that it seems increasingly that that's all there is. Perhaps that's just my perception, but there seem to be a lot of threads dedicated to complaining about the same few things. Could be a sign of the strength of people's feelings about what's happening, but if it stayed like this for a real length of time, I'd likely tap out.

I don't know if it's just the influence of the Network or the terribleness of the booking or what, but the board seems more negative somehow now than it has ever been and it feels like the flavour of the whole place has changed. This used to be the place where you can chuck out any old wrestler's name and someone would be able to find a good to great match they had once, whoever it was. Bunkhouse Buck, Shanghai Pierce, The Barbarian, whoever. I always thought that brand of positivity was something that set the board apart. Things seem a bit one-note to me at the moment.

Steven seemed especially Canadian on this episode, his "aye" quota was right up there. I think Tim is a good tag partner for him and a really good addition to PWSS in general.

This was a good show and a great Kris Z star vehicle. Thanks for putting Titans over by the way Steven.

A couple of us feel that over recent weeks, the board has become too focused on bitching about modern WWE, sucking on the teet of New Japan/ROH, and discussion of old wresting, the life and blood of PWO, seems to have fallen off a cliff. I just wanted to voice this somewhere, because this trend of constant moaning about the current product is starting to make this place feel like any other generic wrestling board. I thought possibly making everyone aware of this might help bring back a bit more old-school.

Austin and Wade were saying that the HHH promo on Sting at Fast Lane was the best of his career. Does anyone agree with that? I quite liked the segment. I put "low" because for modern WWE that's the highest I can get, but it's at the top end of "low".

I remember reading or hearing before that in the 70s TV stations were still disparate for content and would pay wrestling promoters to provide it. One of the big changes was that Vince was paying for slots, not getting paid.

Love how far off the deep end parts of this are. On Jack Reynolds, I reviewed the first ep of PTW here: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/16786-jerryvonkramers-cheesy-journey/?p=5514524 Kely describing in detail where Super 8 usually sits is hilarious.

I think the idea of the decline of wrestling in the 70s and early 80s is a bit overstated. Detroit went out of business because Sheik booked it into the ground and killed it. LA and San Francisco both went out of business because of shoddy management, not because people had gone off wrestling. Amarillo couldn't survive the death of Dory Sr ultimately. St. Louis was bought by Vince and healthy before that. AWA was healthy. Memphis was healthy. Crockett was healthy. Mid-South area was healthy, ended up going to JCP. Florida was healthy, ended up going to JCP. Texas was up and down. Business up in Canada was pretty steady. There are micro explanations for most of what happened in each area. I think the macro trend of wrestling being on the decline is a bit mythical. This is different from the "cable would have killed it" argument. I'm just saying business was pretty up in the 70s in general in most places.

These guys are tremendous will definitely make my 25, probably around the #15 mark because of relative lack of footage (not a fraction of the available Funks on tape, for example). Good face team, GREAT heel team. I still have a whole disc of Briscos vs. Funks to get through, plus that infamously long match vs. Adonis and Murdoch. But on the strength of what I've seen so far, Jerry Brisco is a really underrated little worker, great all-rounder with some junior-style flash and some nice suplex variations;and Jack is one of the major talents of his generation.

This may be a controversial position -- and sorry to Kelly and Marty for this -- but it is my considered view that the WWF Tag Titles have been shitty for the entirey of their existence. The tag scene in 70s WWF is just utterly shocking and this continues right through to 85. So from Luke Graham and Tarzan Tyler in 1971 to The Dream Team in 1985, the tag titles are just SHIT I think the era from 85-91 is overly romanticised by many fans and the tag title picture doesn't get that much more interesting during that time. Most people would probably peg the "nose dive" from that Natural Disasters / Money Inc period, but let's be honest, the tag titles were never treated as that big a deal in WWF. So my answer is "never", because you need to be at a fairly reasonable height to "nose dive" and WWF tag titles started out shit, went to "okayish for a while" and then back to the baseline of shit. It's not a tag company. Never has been. Never will be.

Jack and Jerry Brisco need a tag nomination.

Based on what I've seen so far, not really feeling it for Bock and Stevens. Mainly because the latter just doesn't bring the goods.

Top 5 easily!

Mostly associate him with boring nerve holds. Tell me different.

Not intended as a troll by the way, anyone with the vision to pull off the run from Hogan vs Andre through the evil twin refs to the Mega Powers exploding is a better booker than Dusty. Put Austin vs McMahon as another story arch, and possibly his creative masterpiece, and as a booker I don't think Vince has many rivals. Watts, Baba, and Jarrett are the only others in the conversation. Maybe Vince Sr too.

I envy anyone who grew up in Crockett-land in the 70s/80s. Even so, Vince is a better booker than George Scott, Dory Jr, Ole Anderson and Dusty Rhodes combined.

Be sure to let us know what you make of the footage as well as they show itself. That's one of the things that I really hope to do with Titans is get people actually watching stuff from the 70s. I feel like we managed to do that with the Bruno promos, but not always sure how much people actually watch, y'know. Understandable when it's endless Philly cards opened by The Baron, but this shit deserves to be seen -- I especially like that Hawk and Hansen vs. Weaver and Neilsen tag that Pete was high on. If anyone else watched it, let us know!

I doubt anyone'd lie about "How I got into wrestling". I can't think of many subjects where such a lie would have even less to gain from it. Yes, Butch, but we live in a world where people can take offense at a woman's face being posted on an internet forum. In such a world, anything is possible.

For all his wrongs, I can't understand people saying Vince for this thread. I mean, the man is more or less directly responsible for getting me into wrestling. I wonder how many other people, if they were REALLY honest about their journey as a fan would also admit that Vince's product was the gateway drug. I don't think there's anyone on this board who despises the modern product more than I do, but if there was no Vince I wonder how big this board would even be right now (or whether it would exist at all).

Week 12 (Mar, Week 4) Challenge: Mainly a show devoted to the Slaughter vs. Brisco quarterfinal match. This match was really disappointing. Brisco didn't really want to do this job and would only accept the match going ahead if he was "kept strong" for it especially if he was going to eat a submission loss, so this was likely Slaughter selling Brisco sitting in holds for the best part. Big win for Slaughter though, even if the match was poor. Superstars: More hype for the eventual DiBiase vs. Bruno showdown at the end of the tournament here. Fink: Ladies and gentlemen, Ted DiBiase has paid for the ring for the next 10 minutes. He says he has a special message. DiBiase has his head bandaged from Buddy Rogers's punch last week. He looks at Howard Finkel with annoyance. DiBiase: GET OUT OF MY RING, little man! Do you see that Bruno? Ya punk kid just lost to a real man, The Macho Randy Savage! And you Billy Graham, you got to get an old man to fight your battles? Well you lost too! And now I've got bigger fish to fry next week, one of the biggest FISHES of them all, Dusty Rhodes! He's more like a whale than a man. But it doesn't matter if it's Billy Graham, Dusty Rhodes, Jack Brisco, Jimmy Snuka or any of these pretenders! I'm going to be there in the final at Wrestlemania, because you're looking at the next WWF champion! Why don't you give it up Bruno? You're an old beaten man. Isn't it about time you went home and ate some pasta with your wife?! You're a NOTHING. You're a HAS BEEN. It's 1983 and it's my time now. MINE. It's the time of The Elite! You stand for an old and out of date order Sammartino. You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples and values. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no values. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. And guess what? That's the business that we're in! Making MONEY. This $3,000 suit I'm wearing didn't pay for itself. Nothing pays for itself. There are two kinds of people in this world, winners and losers. Randy Savage. That's a winner. Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard. Natural born winners. Billy Graham, Chief Jay Strongbow, Dominic Denucci, David Sammartino, BRUNO Sammartino. Loser. Loser. Loser. Loser! Losers! But we're grateful for you people. You're put on this earth so that someone like me can stand tall and look down on you. These STUPID people out here, they cheer your name, well that's because they are nothing but losers too. None of these people have what it takes to be part of The Elite! Let me tell you what "Elite" means. "Elite" means that I don't have to scrub my own toilet because there's someone STUPID enough to take my money and do it for me! "Elite" means that I don't have to wait for my groceries like these peons out here because I've got a special credit line with my name on it. "Elite" means I don't have to cook, because I've got a special table waiting for me at The Four Seasons. And tomorrow night at The Waldorf! And the night after that at the Mandarin Oriental. Everything on the house, everything paid for, because my last name is "DiBiase" and in this town that means something. So why don't you take all your little fans back to little Italy to that $2 pizzeria you're always hanging out in Bruno? Because that's what you're worth and what these people are worth. You're nothing, but you're not one of me. I've got CLASS! I've got STYLE! And you wouldn't know class or style if they ran up and bit you on that fat broken nose of yours! Maybe you used to be somebody back when you was hanging out with old blue eyes, Bruno, but this is my town now. My city! They know my name down Wall Street and they know it down Broadway. When they hear that I'm going to be at the club with Arn and Randy, you'll see a queue a mile long full of the women trying to get a look, and full of the men who want to see a winner. I hope The Iron Sheik teaches you a lesson tonight, you should have never stepped back in that ring! Real off-night for Bruno here. And a slightly troubling sign to me, I don't think I can have the strap on Bruno all the way till Summerslam. Considering a hot shot ... he walks out of WM with the title and loses it in a rematch to DiBiase at a house show two weeks later. Thinking about it ... I think there's better business to be had with Ted vs. various babyfaces than Bruno vs. various heels, but lets see. The main concern is that Bruno doesn't look like he's long for the ring and this is really the last ounce of blood from the stone. Post-match: Bruno pins The Iron Sheik while Ted DiBiase is at ringside. He raises his hand as he stares with intensity at DiBiase who stares right back at him. New England Live Show: Mainly using these New England shows to test out combinations of talent. The fact that Hennig and DiBiase have good chemistry in a 45-minute match, for example, bodes well. Maybe I might start thinking about building Hennig up slowly so he could be a future opponent. Oh dear, oh dear. Another bad night for Bruno. I'm wondering if it's worth putting the belt on him at all. The main issue is that I can't really see ending the first Wrestlemania with a heel winning the title. Four TV shows and four tournament matches left till the big one ...