JerryvonKramer

Episode 5: http://placetobenation.com/letters-from-kayfabe-5/ Allan and Parv continue their exploration of Parts Unknown. 1. The Mailbag: Brookyln Brawler in 89-90 / One Man Gang becomes Akeem / Reverend Slick teams up with Kamala 2. The Event Center with JT Rozzero: RAW from October 9th 1995 from Grand Rapids, Michigan 3. The Long Topic: Pipers Pit To write in to the mailbag, tweet @allan_cheapshot or @JerryvonK Follow along on YouTube: Piper's Pit:

Choshu was a rebel. What you might call a "cool heel." When New Japan was super hot in the early 80s they went head-to-head with this police drama on Friday nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qSGmoYw0qk Looks a bit like the Sabotage video, huh? Somebody else thought so and did a mash-up: The police chief was played by Yujiro Ishihara, who was the ultimate tough guy actor of the era. You think Yujiro Ishihara played by the rules? You bet your ass he didn't. Ishihara was macho. Choshu was macho. I can't emphasize enough how cool Choshu was. When I first watched Choshu I thought he was boring as shit but over the years I've come to understand why he was so popular. You need to understand that the majority of wrestling fans at the time were either young men or middle aged salary men. Japan working culture is based on a hierarchical system where promotions and pay increases are based on age not on performance. Choshu threw a middle finger to the establishment. He was coarse and rough. He had long hair but was every bit as macho as Ishihara. He was a heel but it resonated with young guys who wished they could stick a middle finger to their boss too. With Misawa it was the same except he was a face. To an extent, Misawa & Co. vs. Jumbo & Co. was a battle of ideologies. The wrinkle was that it wasn't like all the young guys supported Misawa and all the older fans supported Jumbo. Both Jumbo and Misawa were charismatic to the audience just as both Jumbo and Tenryu had been. No matter how much of an asshole Jumbo was, the crowd would still cheer for his "Oohs!" His partners did a lot of the dirty work for him, but Jumbo still transcended heel/face divides. Kawada and Taue did plenty of heel work in their matches, though when it was Misawa vs. Kawada in singles they played up the senpai vs. kohai aspects a lot. Senpai vs. kohai is again a hierarchical divide and I'm sure there were plenty of fans in the audience who knew what it was like to feel inferior to their senpai. That led to a certain amount of sympathy for Kawada, I'm sure, and when he was positioned against gaijins he was pushed as a native and therefore fan favourite. It was against Misawa and Kobashi that things were more complex. It's a tricky one because on commentary they would sometimes lambaste Kawada's tactics but at the same time they booked the classic babyface chase against Misawa and Misawa & Kobashi, which gave Kawada certain anti-hero qualities. You weren't supposed to hate Kawada, but you weren't meant to respect him more than Misawa or Kobashi. Despite that, he had recognizable fighting qualities. Jumbo was Jumbo and hugely popular. Kawada, I think, was more nuanced. Post of the year

Just logged into my YouTube to find this guy has uploaded 93 more vids! Some intriguing looking stuff.

The latest episode of Mystery Titans is now up.

If anyone who can speak Japanese reads this, I'd love to know the answer to the bolded:

I don't doubt that any of the people you listed are heels and proper ones. They obviously have had proper heels in Japan and the statement needed some qualification. But look at the specific questions I asked. If you think it's a no brainer that all those were heel runs, I can see that, it's cool. I don't see them as being obviously villainous in the way that, say, Sheik and Abby were in the 70s. Was Choshu a villain? I don't really think so.

Good Lord. SUWA! Kuuga, Kaientai, Aja Kong, L.C.O., Dump Matsumoto, Bull Nakano, Heisei Ishingun, Ishingun Gundan, Abdullah the Butcher, Big Boss MA-G-MA, Devil Masami, Minoru Suzuki, Jado and Gedo, Toru Yano, G.B.H., Shin Kokusai Gundan, Blood Generation, Bullet Club, RO&D, CHAOS, Fred Blassie... Really... NONE of them have ever been "proper heels?" I guess if indies don't count, or Joshi, or classic puroresu, or current puroresu... I guess if you just count peak AJPW and ignore Fuchi... No... that statement is just indefensible. Hopefully you were joking. Guys like Abby and Sheik, yes, proper heels. I was thinking more about the native AJPW guys (i.e. who might legitimately make a Rushmore). Ishin Gundan is an interesting test case. Was Riki Choshu a heel? Was Tenryu a heel? Were Kawada and Taue heels? Was Jumbo a heel in 91-2? I guess the heart of the answer to the question lies in that. To me they don't seem like "proper heels", they always have sections of the crowd cheering them, they don't obviously rule break like someone like The Sheik would, even if Jumbo / Fuchi might resort to using a chair once in a while. It would be great to have a Japanese speaker talk about how it was put over on commentary. I don't get hero / villain from any of that stuff, more "clash of ideologies". If someone wants to argue those are all "heel" runs, I could see that. But they don't feel like heels in the conventional sense.

Think it would basically be a jobber match based on the arguments put forward on this episode. Also doesn't have to be me, just that I'd be happy to. And don't think it would be very difficult.

You chaps have been doing a phenomenal job on this topic. I laughed out loud at the Martel / Terry Taylor angle.

When Liam and the boys come to discuss Flair on the actual show, I want to draw their attention to four key moments when he was a babyface: - Starrcade 83 in the angle vs. Race. - feud against Terry Funk in 1989 - Starrcade 93 in the angle vs. Vader. - 1998 in the promo on Eric Biscoff. I'm pointing to them because I think it's easy to think of Ric as a career heel and forget about how great he was when he was put in major babyface roles. He has the real emotion and I think his ability to connect as a babyface is built on that genuine emotion. There aren't too many guys that have had it.

As an aside, do you see Danielson as a Flair / Funk / Eddie level promo? Do you think he had that level of charisma, star presence etc? How does he compare to Savage for that? Or how about just compared to Shawn? Just interested, no particular strong feelings on it.

In this case the OP did specifically mention: "whether it be in-ring work, promos, presence, effectiveness, etc", so I took that as disqualifying Japanese workers. Even though Terry Funk's "babyface ace" run takes place in AJPW. As an aside, I don't think the big hitters from Japan are necessarily great "all rounders" in any case. Kawada did Kawada, Misawa did Misawa, Jumbo did Jumbo etc., I don't see a huge amount of "all rounderness" in that. If you recall BIGLAV they all suffered quite badly in the "A" category, and that's partly because they don't have proper heels in Japan. Even "grumpy Jumbo" isn't *really* a heel.

Flair: Great heel, great face, GOAT worker, GOAT promo, exceptional charisma, worked as babyface ace and heel champion. Terry Funk: Great heel, great face, GOAT worker, GOAT promo, exceptional charisma, worked as babyface ace and heel champion. Eddie: Great heel, great face, very very great worker, exceptional charisma. Fourth spot is harder. But I have to throw my boy Ted into the mix: DiBiase: All-time great heel both in Mid-South and WWF, as a babyface involved in some all-time great angles (vs. Patterson in 79, best friend of JYD, vs. Freedbirds in GCW, vs. Flair / Murdoch in Mid-South, very very good worker, great charisma, exceptional "worker of skits", worked as heel champion. Sort of guy who is a B+ across the board in virtually every category. However, I think he's probably trumped by: Savage: Great heel, great face, tremendous worker, distinctive and entertaining promo, exceptional charisma ------------- So I think my final Rushmore would be: Ric Flair - Terry Funk - Randy Savage - Eddie Guerrero That looks "right" to me.

If you guys ever want to do that Shawn Michaels debate, just ask I'm right here.

Oh shit, I must have forgotten to pick a winner and the decided between them that Calypso Jim would win. Damn. I was in a rush. Calypso Jim is a guy who would also sometimes wrestled as Bobo Brazil Jr. Also, it's kinda difficult with Regal, it's odd to have myself interfering to help him win matches, but somehow even stranger to have the ancient Lord Al physically involved. I am thinking about transitioning both myself and Lord Al into the commentary booth, and sticking the young Tazz in the ring.

AWA Championship Wrestling, June, Week 4, 91: Solie: Welcome to AWA Championship Wrestling. This week coming from the Knoxville Civic Auditorium. Caudle: We have an update on the condition of the AWA Universal Champion, Ricky Steamboat who is recovering from injuries sustained from an attack by the Macho Man Randy Savage. Discretionary viewing is advised. Women and children, you may wish to cover your eyes, because some of these scenes may cause distress. Solie: Footage comes courtest of Sunday Night Wrestling on MTV. *Video replay of Savage attack on Steamboat.* Solie: Steamboat is said to be recovering quickly from the wounds and should be back in action in time for the Supercard on MTV next Tuesday! AWA President Nick Bockwinkel has issued the contract for Macho Man Randy Savage to face Ricky "the Dragon" Steamboat at that event, which you can watch on MTV or on the Omni network in Canada. I've taken to using this one-night local jobbers on all cards now. *Vignette of Mr. T taining Booker T. Here, Mr. T has Booker out on a running track and is making him to sprints. He can be heard saying things like "Faster sucka!" and "Come on, you can go quicker fool!"* Tito has joined Backlund and Bagwell in the permenant struggle against the Alliance Against America. Sunday Night Wrestling on MTV, June, Week 4, 91: Cruise: Tonight is the night of the Supercard on MTV and this is a very special event. We are here at the Richmond Colisieum and you could cut the atmosphere with a knife. Tazz: Jam-packed to the rafters here, indeed. And before the big event, first of all we've got a great card for you tonight, and remember this will be shown again on Sunday night in our regular slot! Cruise: It's going to be Randy Savage taking on Ricky Steamboat for the AWA Universal title. Tonight and it's LIVE! Yes, this has been a sickeningly thin card. But jobber matches are required to establish young talent! 2 Cold and 2 Fly aren't getting over. It's starting to be an issue. *Bruno Sammartino comes out and announces to the crowd that there is a very special guest scheduled to be here tonight, a friend of Rick Martel's who will be facing Kokina Maximas on the supercard!* It's a good job MTV have high levels of patience. --------------------- Supercard on MTV, June Week 4, 91: Tag titles in the opener! For those paying attention, 2 Cold and 2 Fly are actually working triple duty tonight. SD Jones: The first man in history to challenge for both the AWA title and the MTV title in the same year. The surprise participant was Bret Hart! In on a one-night only loan deal from WWF. *The plucky young Owen Hart rushes out to tend to his injured brother and to ward off Kokinka Maximus. There are tearful scenes as Bret is stretched out of the arena. Owen looks beside himself with anger at Captain Lou Albano and Kokina Maximus.* This triggers an Owen Hart vs. Samoans feud which should run over most of the summer. Whatever you make of the booking so far, you have to admit that this is a darn sight better than Ricky Steamboat's actual 1991.

If someone where to make a shortlist of about 20 NOAH matches (doesn't have to be Kobashi), I'd gladly sit down and review em for this thread. Especially if they are stiff as fuck.

AWA Championship Wrestling, June, Week 3, 91: Youngbloods in one a one-night deal. One-night deal for Black Bart. Pity the Fool Mr. T: S'up suckas, you may have noticed that my associate here, Booker T, been getting bigger and stronger every week. He wants to go all the way to the top! And with my help, I think he's gonna do just that. Ain't that right Booker? Booker T: It sure is! Dig it! SUCKA! Sunday Night Wrestling on MTV, June, Week 3, 91: Cruise: Good evening and welcome to Sunday Night Wrestling on MTV! This week coming from the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City! Tazz: Yo my back yard, the Big Apple! And we're very excited ain't we Crispy, because the lovely Miss Elizabeth has an exclusive interview with the AWA Universal champeen Ricky Steamboat! Cruise: And that's not all! Rick Martel will be having his first match here on MTV, after the heinous attack last week by Lord Steven Regal. Tazz: And the MTV tag champeens, The Orient Express will be defending their titles here. Cruise: Don't miss a minute. Tazz: Don't leave your seats Cruise: Sunday Night Wrestling on MTV! Elizabeth: Hello everyone, it is my pleasure to introduce to you the AWA Universal champion ... Ricky "the Dragon" Steamboat! Steamboat: Well thank you Miss Elizabeth and I'm happy to be here in New York on MTV! And speaking to such a lovely lady! Elizabeth (smiling): And I'm happy to be speaking to you, Ricky. Steamboat: As the AWA Univer ... *Steamboat is suddenly smashed across the back with a chair. It's ... RANDY SAVAGE!! He drags Elizabeth back* Savage: Elizabeth! Yeah! You get back. I saw him! Eyes all over you! *Savage smashes Steamboat with the chair once more and does an elbow drop. Liz looks concerned but also frightened. Savage attacks Steamboat with the chair once more. Steamboat is now convulsing on the floor. Security officers try to prise the chair from Savage. EMTs come to tend to Steamboat who is stretchered from the arena into an ambulance* This iteration of the Steamboat vs. Savage feud should be HOT. Hotter than 2 Fly and 2 Cold at any rate ... Super Destroyers on a one-night deal. "The Extremist" is Doug Furnas as a wrestler who loves to take things "to the extreme", this is MTV so that's eXteme! Martel picked up a concussion I didn't know about, so plans for the Regal vs. Martel feud are going to have to wait a few weeks. This is one way of writing him out for a while. He can run through the Samoans on his way to Regal. Maybe Regal and Captain Lou can strike a deal. Regal has gotten a whole lot better in recent weeks. Best MTV show to date.

First, a word on the locker room. It is up from the lows of 0% after all of the firings, plus bringing in a lot of fresh new faces. Still far from ideal, but not as toxic as it was. Honkytonk Man going seems to have helped a lot. Second, it appears that my talks to bring in Ric Flair stalled. Didn't seem to get very far. He still hasn't signed a new contract with WCW, so there is still hope. But I somehow doubt he's going to sign for me. AWA Championship Wrestling, June, Week 2, 91: Pity the Fool Mr. T: S'up suckas. Tonight, I have two very special guests. The AWA Vice President for Championship Wrestling, Mr. Bill Watts, and the AWA Vice President for Wrestling on MTV, Mr. Bruno Sammartino. They are here on "Pity the Fool" to discuss some very important business. Gentlemen, let me hand it over to you. Mr. Watts. Watts: Well thank you Mr. T. And, first of all, let me just say that me and Bruno Sammartino go way, way back into the 1960s. Some older fans will remember we didn't always see eye to eye, ain't that right Bruno? Bruno: Ha ha, that's right, Bill. But look at us now, Vice Presidents of the AWA. Watts: And that's why we are gathered today. Bruno has been in touch with my office, and he's looking to make some TRADES. Mr. T: Ya mean ... wrestlers can move from Championship Wrestling to MTV or the other way? Watts: That's exactly right. But it all needs to be ratified by the AWA board and signed by both myself and Bruno. Bruno: And after some long negotiations, we have made our first trade, Rick Martel will be moving to the MTV brand! Mr. T: What about his tag-team partner, Tito Santana? Watts: I'm afraid we could not ratify that one, he will stay right here on AWA Championship Wrestling! Mr. T: So Strike Force is no longer a team? Bruno: Well ya know, sometimes in life these things happen. Rick and Tito, we spoke to them, and they've decided to pursue their own individual interests for now. Watts: That means I have one trade in reserve. I have chosen to keep hold of this for now. Watch this space to see who might be coming over from the MTV brand in the future. Ted had one stray appearance left on his contract. I wanted him to lose a "Loser Leaves Town" match to Bagwell, but he refused to do the job and as part of the talent deal has automatic creative control to block things he doesn't want to do. So instead, he's just going out on a high note. Sunday Night Wrestling on MTV, June, Week 2, 91: Debut for Jericho. Debut for Benoit. Incdentally, a lot of these guys doing jobs are being brought in on one-night local deals. Debut for Owen. I need to get these younger guys over as soon as possible to stop this MTV show being such a shower of shit. A Cuppa with Lord Al Lord Al: My guest this week is the newest superstar here on MTV: Mr. Rick Martel! Martel: Thank you, your Lordship. Lord Al: And the question on everyone's lips is: just why have you come over here to MTV? It's not just to listen to that awful rap Butch Reed and co play is it? Martel: One thing and one thing alone: I've had enough of watching that no good Lord Steven Regal!! I'm going to be the new MTV champion! Lord Al: By gosh! Lord Regal is my friend and associate! *Regal who seems to have been lurking saunters in with Lord von Kramer ...* Lord Regal: You? You MTV champion? Well just look at yourself man. Those long locks. You're more suited to being ... a model than a wrestler. Lord von Kramer: And listen to that accent. Martel: Are you making fun of me?! Lord von Kramer: Oh I see, you are just a pretty face, as they say ... no brains. Martel (*getting fired up*): What did you say?! Lord Regal: He said, "why don't you beat it sunshine, or your face isn't going to be looking pretty for much longer!" *Martel leaps at Regal who back off. But manages to get his hands on Lord von Kramer who he puts in a hammerlock.* Lord von Kramer: Help! Somebody! Get this hoodlum off of me! Lord Al: I say! Rick Martel! Do you mind?! *Lord Al goes over to try to restrain Martel, but he doesn't let go, but as he is fending off Lord Al, Regal sneaks around the back and lays him out with the MTV title! Lord Al lays in some stomps of his own. Lord von Kramer looks traumatized* Martel has been brought over to help carry the main event. Regal is getting more over now, but still can't do it alone. MTV is still a sub-par show, but in time it should start getting better.

We systematically voted down and opposed any attempts to bring in "trigger warnings" for the study of English lit because while it might start with something like victims of sexual assault, it ends up with students complaining about books being too depressing or whatever. Trigger warnings for something being "sad", things like this. We opposed it on the grounds that it infantilised students and was actually patronising. We can't have a culture which wraps so much stuff up in cotton wool. Yes, people are victims of sexual abuse. Does that mean we have to put "trigger warnings" on a module with Sons and Lovers on it? How about American Psycho? I don't think you'd get a panel of people more sympathetic to wider support for victims of sexual abuse than my colleagues, but they still opposed "trigger warnings" on the grounds that they are antithetical to university education. If you don't want to read stuff that is challenging, that might upset you, that might cause you to confront difficult or even disturbing things that happened in your past ... Don't do an English degree, simple as that. We cannot censor literature because sexual abuse exists in the world, and we cannot tailor modules towards what may or may not be disturbing for certain individuals (for any reason).

This was the first episode where the dynamic started to bug me. Some of Conrad's interventions weren't welcome and some of the arguments seemed silly to me. Still gotta love the logic of "Iran is next to Iraq so ... It makes sense for Iron Sheik to love Saddam Hussein." I still think there is some vague insensitivity to just how offensive that is. My dad, who is Iranian, was on a ship that was bombed by Saddam Hussein in 1983, the ship sank and he had to swim through fire to survive. He lost his wedding ring and a pile of other stuff that was on board. Could have easily been killed that day. So y'know the idea of an Iranian just willy nilly becoming an Iraqi sympathiser is not some trivial thing. Didn't seem to occur to Conrad as the voice of modern outrage here. He also seemed to be eating nuts or something during this. So this was the first Ep I didn't enjoy much. There was a lot of detail skirted over: just as an example, Greg vs. Earthquake wasn't just two guys on a card randomly that was an actual feud. This is the sort of value I was hoping Bruce might add but they didn't get into any of it and instead pursued the stuff that has been discussed a million times. So yeah, disappointing episode for me.

I later had a copy of Starrcade 89: Future Shock, and when I was collecting tapes that one seemed abundant and was cheap. WCW distribution seemed quite random. Woolworths had those cards with top trump style values on them. I remember Ron Simmons, Sting and the Steiners were in the pack but that was the only WCW merch I remember seeing. Our video shop had some WWF tapes to rent, but no WCW. I had to go to Swansea to get SNES and NES games and that was usually my chance to look for wrestling tapes. But earlier WWF tapes from the initial 1988 run seemed harder to come by. I never once saw Summerslam 88 in the shops and had to pay something like £15 or £20 for it years later. I may have seen WCW tapes in Swansea, I seem to recall seeing Luger on the front of one. But it's kinda hard to think back to being 10-11 years old. WCW felt like it had very little presence on the shelves.

What about the WCW videos? I remember getting them all ASAP as they came out. No don't even remember those being around. Woolworths, which was about the biggest shop in my town, didn't really sell even WWF videos. Had to go to a WH Smiths in a bigger town or else Cardiff / Swansea. I didn't know anyone who had heard of WCW. Flair wasn't on anyone's radar till he came into WWF. Even in 92/3, I'm not sure I knew anyone else who had any sense of who Sting or Ron Simmons were. WCW being on at 2am on HTV probably had a lot to do with that.

I never saw WCW until 91, so missed any 89-90 stuff on ITV. So when the Steiners came I saw that as a big deal, but when Heavenly Bodies turned up I saw them as being from the lower leagues. I associated Cornette more with Yokozuna than anything else.

Ole Anderson vs. Bad Bad Leroy Brown (10/4/81) JIP. As we join Pat Patterson is warding off Ivan Koloff. I know Pat and Ivan were partners at one time, so this must have been after they split. Surely Pat was with WWF at this point, which I guess is the unique thing about Maple Leaf. I think Crockett had some points in the territory and Frank Tunney had a long-term partnership with Vince Sr, so you could get Mid-Atlantic talent on the same cards as WWF talent. Leroy a Brown would later be one of the Zambui Express. I kinda wish we'd have got Patterson vs. Ivan here cos that match could be all sorts of great. This match really puts paid to the idea that Ole wouldn't sell cos he rag dolls for Brown here, taking a powerslam and a military press! Ole slips out of the ring and sneaks some brass knucks into his trunks. Allows him to take over. Koloff runs back in for a DQ. Too clipped to rate, but this was better than one would expect. I was interested to learn that Nikolai Volkoff and Chris Markoff were tagging in Toronto as "The Russians" at this time. They could have formed an uber-group with Ivan if they wanted! Killer Khan vs. Johnny Weaver (10/4/81) From what I've seen, Weaver was a really good worker in his younger days, so this has some potential. Tape here looks bout 18th generation copy, but hey that's part of the thrill right old-school grapple fans? Weaver looks tiny next to Khan. Big headlocks from Khan. Dominates with some basic clubbing blows. Reverse chinlock. Consistent focus on the back. Hiptoss. Khan misses an elbow which gives Weaver a chance for a comeback. Sleeper! Khan cuts him off. Weaver manages a backdrop. Backbreaker by Khan. Knee from the second rope. And that'll do. Your basic old veteran puts over pushed heel match. Was effective and did its job of putting over Khan. **