JerryvonKramer

Ray Stevens and Jimmy Snuka vs. Ricky Steamboat and Jay Youngblood (6/29/80) Stevens and Snuka are managed by Gene Anderson. Youngblood is introduced as "Indian Youngblood". They seemed to play up Steamboat's Hawaiianness a lot more around this time. Commentary is in Japanese. Steamer has the tache here also. Fast-paced criss crossing from Steamboat and Snuka to start. Good action. Settle into Steamboat working Snuka's arm which always seems to be his go-to basic strategy. We get arm drags and counter arm drags here, which is pretty cool. Youngblood in. He's very "bouncy". Stevens in. And faces dominate now for a good bit working Stevens's left arm. Youngblood mainly uses an arm bar which has all the hallmarks of a resthold. Snuka in and he turns the tide with a shot to the throat. Looks like we're settling in to Youngblood in peril. Snuka does his signature big chop. Powerman choke. Stevens in with cheapness. Face drop thing. Choking. I mean his offense is in the same ballpark as Bobby Heenan's. Snuka in with a splash from the top rope, the actual rope not the turnbuckle. That looked impressive. Hot tag to Steamer and he brings the crowd to life. Vertical suplex on Snuka. Trademark chop. Snuka cuts him off. Stevens in. Immediately loses advantage. Double collision spot. Snuka and Youngblood go at it on the apron. Stevens goes for a pin, two only. Snuka in with a choke slam. Blatant chokes. This goes on for a very long time. Steamer comes back. Hot tag to Youngblood. Stevens in. Sleeper on him. Steamboat back in. Flying crossbody from the top, poor landing, gets two only. Time limit draw. This was crap. Stevens is just a big ball of nothing here. He has so little offense he honestly might as well be Frank Williams. This was worked double heat and the second face in peril sequence was appalling. Given that this was on Steamboat, that's entirely on the heels for having nothing to do. A three or four minute sequence is all Snuka could think of doing -- this is Snuka in 1980 not fucking Bobby Duncum, he surely has more up his sleeve than that. Youngblood looked good, but the babyfaces were totally wasted in this match. You can have all the great selling in the world, but if the heels can't think of anything to do with it, you end up with a not-very-good match. Very disappointing. ** Dory Funk Jr. vs. Abdullah the Butcher (6/29/80) This probably explains why the Japanese cameras were there. This is when Dory was defending the NWA international title all over the place. For some reason Ernie Ladd is there looking like the flyest motherfucker ever to be born, and he tussles with Dory who is being cheered as a babyface by the crowd. That gives Abby is in as he ambushes early. Dory hasn't even got his jacket off. I've just realised that I've reviewed this before, here: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/27872-learning-to-love-dory/page-4&do=findComment&comment=5692030 Let's see what else is available ...

Was about to go to sleep when Matt alerted me to this and a batch of other matches. Couldn't go to bed and not give this a look. This thread is gonna be devoted to Maple Leaf Wrestling for the next few days. Ricky Steamboat vs. Ray Stevens (3/8/81) Steamer has a tache here and is Mid-Atlantic champ, and Stevens is world tag champ with Ivan Koloff. Steamboat is built like a He-Man action figure, ripped, not an ounce of fat on him. Can't get over the tache. Stevens controls early with chinlocks and cheapness. Steamer comes back with a slam and some chops. Crowd are hot for him. After a quick break Stevens does his flip, Ricky attacks the arm with some vigour, including a splash on the arm (unusual). This arm sequence from Steamboat has been pretty good. It's worked with a good amount of focus, intensity and everything looks painful. Very "scientific", but what else do you want from Steamboat on top? Structurally this has been weird, almost as if the shine and heat are reversed. The heel was on top for the first six or seven minutes, and then since the transition it's been the babyface. Eventually Stevens dumps Steamboat which breaks the momentum. Stevens again has not much in the way of offense other than cheapness: chokes, rakes, stuff like that. Steamboat makes an epic comeback, but Stevens cuts him off with feet on the ropes pin. Ref spots it, and match continues. Then he hits a crossbody from the top for the pin. But Stevens has his leg on the rope but the ref doesn't see it! Steamboat wins despite the foot on the rope. Weird booking. I've never gotten that old deal of the heel screwed by the ref. Stevens has a legitimate complaint! Unfortunately, just like every other Ray Stevens match I've ever seen, I didn't see even a glimpse of the supposedly all-time great. Not even a hint of it. Steamboat was really good and carried the match, not only through his selling (as per usual for him), but also through his focused arm work and fired up comebacks. Stevens, who I guess was calling this match, didn't bring a lot other than timing. The structure seemed topsy turvy to me, as if geared up for a heel comeback. Kinda strange. And the booking of the finish plain makes no sense in terms of psychology, unless they wanted a rematch, but if so, why not screw the babyface not the heel? Worth watching if only for Steamer's moustache, but Stevens remains the biggest disappointment in terms of rep vs. what you see. Excited to watch more of this Maple Leaf footage. ***1/2

Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Kenta Kobashi (2/27/92) This cropped up randomly down the side of my YouTube one day and I don't think I've seen it. Been meaning to give it a look for a while. Jumbo gave Kobashi a hell of a lot here, and it's ridiculous how much Kobashi was over. Awesome German suplex nearfall close to the end. Jumbo is so vicious in this match. Every single move he hits is executed like a finisher. I think he hits maybe six or seven lariats during the course. The backdrop suplex on the finish seemed to snap Kobashi in half. It's a really solid match. Not a classic, but very entertaining. ****

One thing that struck me watching this stuff was how much the authority figure has changed over time. Even from the 70s to Jack Tunney is a big shift. The "board" was such a shadow-y organization. Shinma might as well have been in the Yakuza. The whole thing was so mysterious and opaque. Tunney brought greater transparency, but he was still essentially a beuracrat who seemed to represent byzantine systems and unknown corridors of power. Still a long way from there to Teddy Long as GM etc.

Part 5 is now up.

Episode 4: http://placetobenation.com/letters-from-kayfabe-4/ Allan and Parv tackle more mailbag questions and re-live some memories of growing up with Coliseum Home Video. 1. The Mailbag: Vince acknowledging SMW in 93 / Jim Brunzell after the Killer Bees / Hercules vs. Sid 2. The Event Center with JT Rozzero: Battle Royal for vacant Intercontinental title in October 93 3. The Long Topic: Coliseum Home Video To write in to the mailbag, tweet @allan_cheapshot or @JerryvonK Follow along on YouTube:

Always been fascinated by the pre-Jack Tunney presidents. I went through to see if I could find actual footage of the first two WWF Presidents. Rare sightings indeed. 2/2/76 MSG: I believe this is the first on-air appearance of Gilzenberg as President. He passes a note to Wagner about next month's MSG card, and Vince mentions him on commentary. 10/1/77 Championship Wrestling: After Ken Patera disgracefully wouldn't let go of a swinging full nelson on Juan Lopez, causing Lopez to go to hospital. Gilzenberg suspends Patera on the spot. 10/22/77 Championship Wrestling: Here Gilzenberg deals with an irate Captain Lou, who of course was Patera's manager. Lou is going spare about Patera's suspension and thinks it is against human rights. Gilzenberg is very firm and authorative. He stands by the ruling unless Albano and Patera EACH pay a $5,000 fine. Albano makes like J Wellington Wimpy and says he'll pay him the money ... TOMORROW. I was pretty impressed with Gilzenberg's performance here. A few stuttery moments, but in general he was good in the role. More natural charisma than a Jim Crockett Jr. -------- Here was the only sighting of President Shinma that I could find: 1/18/82 MSG: Here Finkel announces him along with some other dignitaries (Tunney, Crockett and Vince Sr are not announced, however, just seem to be general "board members"). Shinma speaks decent English and reads out some stuff from a piece of paper, but Vince talks all over it, so I didn't hear much of what was being said. Still, cool to have all these guys in one ring as late as 1982.

Stardust

1/2/93 - Superstars: Virgil over Razor Ramon 1/10/93 - Challenge: Virgl over Repo Man 1/18/93 - Raw: Virgil over IRS 1/24/93 - Royal Rumble: Virgil over Bret Hart to win WWF World title 1/29/93 - MSG: Virgil over Ted DiBiase to retain WWF World title 1/31/93 - Maple Leaf Gardens: Virgil over Bret Hart to retain WWF World title 2/6/93 - Boston Garden: Virgil over Ted DiBiase to retain WWF world title 2/13/93 - Superstars: Virgil issues open challenge for his WWF world title, Ric Flair answers. Virgil over Ric Flair to retain WWF World title 2/20/93- Landover, MD, Capital Centre: Virgil over Bret Hart to retain WWF World title 2/22/93 - Raw: Virgil issues open challenge for his WWF world title, Mr Perfect answers. Virgil over Mr Perfect to retain WWF World title [holding pattern over next month, Virgil takes on all comers on TV and on major house shows defeating everyone from Skinner to The Undertaker] 3/22/93 - Raw - Virgil issues open challenge for his WWF world title, Hulk Hogan answers! It's going to be Virgil vs. Hulk Hogan at Wrestlemania 9! 4/4/93 - Wrestlemania IX - Virgil over Hulk Hogan to retain WWF world title

I'm getting out of this now, disinclined to discuss further. But Grimmas's response to me -- a moderate, liberal centrist -- here is half of the problem. And until people can see why I don't think there'll be much progress on this particular issue.

I dunno, but overt racism, homophobia and sexism seem to me to be more important issues to tackle than Christmas, calling matches "abortions" or using gender neutral terms in innocuous places. It seems to me important not to piss off large swathes of normal people when the first set of issues are still far far from being sorted. The second set of issues encourages general eye-rolling, and makes it easier to reduce the first set to that same level. Worse it pushes simmering resentment under the carpet, and I'm convinced that that is part of some of the far-right political movements we are seeing in UK and USA right now. Campaigns being run on basically racism.

Right but which hill are you going to die on? The "let's call Christmas the holiday season" sort of stuff gives fuel to the fire and lessens the impact of much more important hills. If you police that stuff too tightly people resent it, and then it makes it all too easy to fall back on those same defences in more serious cases. Just saying that a little more pragmatism would help it a whole lot. Until that time, just giving right-wing newspaper a lisence to print money with their columns of righteous indignation about the "thought police". Do it enough and you literally get Trump. Or Brexit. Gotta face up to the world we live in, before we can build the world we want to live in. Don't think you can bring people on side by calling them out on perceived transgressions all the time. Breeds resentment. Just my take.

The borderline-fanatical policing of language is the one sure-fire thing that is going to piss off people and make them an enemy rather than an ally in any debate. Why? Because it changes the terms of what is being discussed to something more around freedom of speech and linguistics than whatever cause it is on which you wish to focus. For every one person who gets upset about someone using "abortion" in that vernacular way, the sort of policing they call for, and the sort of shutting down of creative uses of language etc., creates maybe ten, twenty, more (?) people who complain about political correctness. Because it becomes an issue about Liberty. I feel quite strongly that this is a lesson that needs to be learned if people ever really want to advance whatever causes they are pushing, especially if it is one that requires any degree of popular support. Pick and choose the right battles. Getting annoyed over calling a match an "abortion" probably isn't the right battle.

For the 13th edition of Mystery Titans, Parv returns after a three-show absence to join Kelly for another exciting WWF house show from the mid-80s. Subscribe to Titans of Wrestling and many other great podcasts at the Place to Be Nation: http://placetobenation.com/titans-of-wrestling/ Lanny Poffo vs Rene Goulet Nikolai Volkoff vs Tony Garea King Tonga vs Paul Christy Sivi Afi vs Iron Mike Sharpe Dynamite Kid vs Brutus Beefcake Randy Savage vs Tito Santana (No DQ match) Davey Boy Smith vs Greg Valentine Cpl. Kirchner vs Iron Sheik Pedro Morales vs Tiger Chung Lee Jake Roberts vs Scott McGhee Hulk Hogan & Hillbilly Jim vs Big John Studd & King Kong Bundy

The Funks documentary Not gonna review, just going note any tidbits of interest. Dory has now started to look properly old as someone befitting someone in his mid-70s. Terry less so. - Some footage of an interview from Bob Giegel talking about Dory Sr in 2000, wonder where that is from. - Level of buy-in on the talking heads on this has been impressive so far, 12 mins in: Jim Ross, Tully, Bob Armstrong, Stan Hansen, Bret Hart, Manny Fernandez, Gerald Brisco, Tom Pritchard, Bruce Mitchell, JJ Dillon, Bill Apter, B. Brian Blair, Larry Matysik, Harley Race ... Surprising lack of Dibiase. - Both Dory and Terry say that their father was a tough critic, always hard on mistakes and never once told either of them they had a good match. - Dory and Terry both say workers made as much in Amarillo as they would in New York or Florida or LA. Said they had to pay well to get the boys to actually work there. - Brisco says the territory was marked by its professionalism. - I'm not entirely sure what this 8mm footage is they are showing. Suspect it is not Amarillo, but it could be cos it seems like all Dory or Terry matches. I've not seen them. Intriguing. - Worked a 7-day loop weekly. Said the TV show was great but there isn't much footage because they'd recycle the tapes. - Dory vs. Kiniski for the NWA title in Tampa in 69 was a sell out, on a Tuesday night. Dory said that his father finally said he was proud of him, which meant a lot. - Dory worked 300 nights a year as champ, many hour-long Broadways. - JR says Dory was a tremendous champion because he could work with anyone, fan favourites or villains as the situation dictated. - Brisco says they didn't leave the belt on him for almost five years for nothing, they left it cos he was doing great business at the box office. - Blair says that no one was a better ring general than Dory: knew every high spot in the business, timing spectacular - Apter says there'd be no "boring" chants during his sixty-minute or even ninety-minute matches. - Dory has a ledger which lists all 7,000+ matches he ever wrestled. Says he worked with Jack Brisco around 150 times. - Everybody still sticks to their side of the story on the Dory injury. - Dory Sr had a heart attack after shooting with Les Thronton, he choked him out with a front facelock but then suffered the heart attack. As we hit Terry's title run, I'll pause it for now.

Thanks Brian. My view on this is that one has to forge one's own path. Explore, discover, figure out where you stand. That's all you can do, and I don't think it happens overnight. With music especially I think it took me years to figure out which bands lauded by the magazines I could safely say weren't for me, and which were -- and even then it's always subject to change. I do give everything a chance and a long chance, at least 1-2 months of sustained immersion if it's someone I'm exploring properly. And that isn't to say a few years down the line I won't try again and maybe something will click that didn't the first time. Some helpful chap on another site has listed out every entry so far. Pretty handy for a quick reference:

Yeah can't think of anything comparable pre-matador. If we were making a theoretical bottom 5, maybe making burritos for Lord Al on TNT only for him to shit all over Mexican food would also be down there. As another aside re: Tito vs. Ted, they faced each other in Amarillo in 79, in WWF in 79, in Mid-South in 83 and then many times 87-93 WWF. Just thought it was interesting they crossed paths as opponents in four different times and places. Ted's penultimate match on American soil was against Tito on October 28th, 93 at the Free Funk for All. I know he worked vs. Terry two nights later, but for some reason the databases don't like that one (is on 93 yearbook).

No, no, we document Tito's lowest moment on the show. That fateful night at the Huntington Civic Arena on June 15th, 1993. I'd take a handicap match against Andre over a dark match losing effort against a pre-debut Well Dunn any day of the week!

I always listen to the NWA on Demand portion of this show. This week Pete made me lol pretty hard with his suggestion that The Miz should start using the loaded boot.

This is compulsive listening once you get into its rhythms.

The idea of a 1993 Virgil feuding with WWF magazine is one of the most incredible things conceivable. Was this just in the mag or was it mentioned on air?

I've finished it now and would agree. The tonal shifts over the course of two hours were pretty dramatic.

I hope people like the CHV discussion next week, one of my principal wrestling loves. Some tremendous additional info here re: Virgil / Tito from PeteF and Kelly. Can't believe I missed their Mega Powers explode match! Who went over there? RE: Garvin / Martel feud - I find that really surprising considering him losing to Ryhthm n Blues in 3 mins and teaming with pure jobbers. Keep questions coming in folks. Quite a big backlog now but we will get to them all eventually. Il glad people seem to be enjoying the show in the spirit it was intended.

My god the first thirty mins of this latest show. I don't think I can unsubscribe though: something different and compelling about it.

With this being a favourites list, my hope was that folks would focus on what is there and why rather than what is missing. I don't doubt the greatness of Davis, he just wasn't for my list. And I can't add a lot of value or insight there. It's less about the rankings and more a list for music fans to discover new stuff or see stuff they already know in a different light. I wouldn't want anyone to lament a placement or an absence.