JerryvonKramer

If you're talking about the one from All Japan in 81 then I'm one of two guys I know who has put that top 10/ top 15, really really like that match. *Most* others have it bottom 5 along with the Snuka match. Taste is a fickle thing. I was thinking Honky too, but really are those matches any good? The title switch is a 5-minute job. Savage had much better stuff with both Honky and, of course, Steamer. I think there's a big difference between "being a better performer" and "being a consistent performer". In football ("soccer"), there's this Portguese rightback called Paulo Ferreira. Back in 2004/5, he was rated as one of the best defenders in Europe. Jose Mourinho said of him: "[he's] a player who will never be man of the match but will always score 7/10 for his individual display." He'll never be the best player on the pitch, but he'll seldom be the worst player on the pitch either. (NB. Given Ferreira's career since, in hindsight, it is debatable whether that is true). But that's an example of a guy who is "consistent". There are players in football who are much *MUCH* better than him. From the same timeframe, say, Ronaldinho - he was off-the-charts good. Maybe he'll give you 10/10 four matches in a row, but then on a bad day he could give you 5/10. You get the picture. I don't think Steamer is a 7/10 guy. Sure, he was more often than not BETTER than that, but there are too many occassions for me when a match of his falls below expectations for him to be classed as "consistent" in my book. Those are not bad matches. They were all very disappointing for me. Maybe EXPECTATION plays a part here too. When you get someone of Steamboat's level stepping in there with those guys I'd expect a **** match as a bare minimum. None of those matches are of that quality. Jake?

There are plenty of poor Steamboat matches against decent workers. Without even scratching underneath the surface to look for them: vs. Snuka on the All Japan set vs. Mil Mascaras on the All Japan set vs. Rude at Royal Rumble '88 vs. Muta in 1990 vs. pretty much anyone in WWF circa 1991 vs. Pillman at Havoc 92 vs. Regal at Fall Brawl '93 vs. Regal again at Starrcade '93 I'm not saying Steamboat wasn't one of the best workers ever to step inside a ring, I'm saying that he almost certainly wasn't the most consistent guy. I know he has a massive, massive rep, but I've just seen too many disappointing Steamboat matches for him to count here. Arn's highs or Tito's highs don't go near Steamboat's highs, but I wonder if they have as many disappointing matches. Feel free to shoot this down, I am aware that this is a bit heretical and that Steamer is one of the last truly sacred cows. For me, Steamboat needs his opponent to have a good night to have a good match -- take the 88 match with Rude and the fucking classic 92 match with Rude from Beach Blast. The difference is Rude. Put Rude from 88 in there with Tito and it's probably a **1/2 or so. Maybe Tito never had a ***** in his career, but he'll consistently give you that **1/2 or so no matter who he's in there with. I don't think Steamboat was like that. From 1980 to 1987 I'd say he was consistently bland, after that I don't know. The one match from 88 I've seen I liked. And he shows real personality in it. I have had quite a big problem with Tenryu watching the All Japan set so far.

Ricky Steamboat has had his fair share of sucky matches though.

Ha ha. jdw - you did miss something though. Sheik / Zangiev is AS MUCH to do with their mustaches and funny faces as it is to do with their former ameuter careers.

Ha ha, pretty much there. I actually thought Wajimi's stint was brief which is why I went with Greene. The logic on Bravo vs. Stevie Ray is: "possibly worst wrestler ever" and nothing else. Logic on Saito / Valentine is that I think Saito looks a bit like a Japanese Valentine,

Some comparisons of current interest to me: Yoshiaki Yatsu or Kurt Angle? The Iron Sheik or Victor Zangiev? Kevin Greene or Hiroshi Wajima? Dino Bravo or Stevie Ray? Hiro Saito or Greg Valentine? The is a logic to these pairings, but I'll leave it to you to figure out my thinking

With you on this. When I saw some of his matches on the Mid-South I was literally like OMFG Chavo is the greatest worker EVER EVER! Then he turned up on All Japan and was mostly disappointing. How do people rate Manny Fernandez for this? He has a rep for being hit and miss.

Recently people have talked up the fact that when Killer Kahn was on, he was really on, but when he was off, he was really shit -- the ultimate hit and miss guy. Tito Santana is talked about as a guy who was always solid no matter what or where he was on the card. Is there anyone that has a greater vairance than Kahn, that is higher highs and lower lows? And is there anyone more consistent than Santana? Which names are in the mix?

Pretty much a no contest and I don't even like Armstrong. I think Brad vs. Sam Houston or Brad vs. WCW-era late Tommy Rich would be more interesting.

I only mention it because it's free and Audacity is about as hard as using MS Paint or a pair of scissors in real life. It's just drag and drop. Once you find out you can turn youtube clips into MP3s using a browser-based download site, you won't want to turn back. Imagine putting Leo Burke promos onto the end of your shows! The possibilities.

Guys, serious suggestion: I've recorded 22 different podcast with a rotating cast of characters (not about wrestling) and I've done them ALL using two free programmes: 1. Skype 2. Audacity You talk over Skype and record it on the free audacity programme, which also lets you edit the content, add sound bites, jingles and so on. I'm a complete luddite, but that method is almost idiot proof. I don't get why you'd use something like Talkshoe, which seems to be throwing up all sorts of problems. Other than that, great show, as ever!

Like I said, he'll need to undergo some sort of transformation from what he's been up till now if my mind is going to change on this. The Revolution stuff has started now, I said this over on DVDR:

I'm upto 1987. Jumbo looks like a legit GOAT contender. Tenryu has less charisma than Mike Rotunda. I'm watching one of their tags against DiBiase and Hansen. As the announcer went through the names, Hansen did his thing popped the crowd, DiBiase the same, we get to Tenryu. As per usual he looks like he just doesn't give shit. He barely bothers to raise his arm, the moment has gone. We get to Jumbo, who is already fired up, he raises his arm and we're off. Everything about that 1-2 minutes sums up why I hate Tenryu so far. He makes Dean Malenko look like The Rock.

I think I hate Tenryu.

I'm edging towards saying it's Jumbo.

That brings me to my second point which is: is "making sense" necessarily ENOUGH for something to be good? It seems like a ridiculously low level to be aiming for. If we said "any film that 'makes sense' is good" then there would be very few bad films made in any given year. Why is making sense so privileged when we look at wrestling?

jdw - even if he hasn't planned it and was, as you say, winging it, that doesn't mean those unlying structures aren't there. Whenever anyone performs a structural analysis of a piece of literature do you think the author was ever thinking about those things? Does the author even matter? Does what Flair was actually thinking matter? Fact is, he worked Jumbo differently from the way he worked Sam Houston.