Ricky Jackson

Savage is my pick. I have no problem with any of the other names, haven't seen much from a lot of guys (Rose, Morton, Rogers, Mantell, Eaton, Murdoch), and would throw in Dynamite Kid (not enough great stuff in USA?).

Check the new comments thread for my take on it. (and no, I'm not secretly Todd Martin) I should have put it here but I totally forgot about this thread.

Don't get a swell head about it John, but damn your Chicago/Spears/Hogan/Cher/Edge/Warrior/Sting argument is a thing of beauty.

I think I'll always rate their Mania match higher, with the tie-breakers being the perfectly executed double-turn aspect, a bit better storytelling ("he didn't quit, he passed out from blood loss!"), and the fact it was the culmination of several months of build up. Still, the SS match is excellent and maybe a better example of Bret's skills (and Austin's) as a worker in that the two of them were wrestling each other for the first time and had yet to build up a rhythm in the ring, and they were still able to have an all-time classic match. Just an awesome feud that makes me miss the old days every time I think about it.

Well, they've sure been booking the Waffle House cook in a lot of PPV main events recently. So obviously they see him as something more than just a "technical" wrestler or somebody they need to force-feed to 90% of their fans. As for Steamboat, as far as I know he was a pretty decent draw between 1977 and 1984, at least in the Carolinas and Toronto, and not always because he was booked against Flair. Post-1984 (really, when wrestling history begins according to WWE), yeah, he was not a huge draw when given the main event spot. But he wasn't booked on top very often, and other than a house show run with Savage (maybe a B show run with Roberts?), not at all while in WWF. I think the weirdest part is this was in WWE magazine. I haven't read an issue in years. Do they do a lot of non-kayfabe stuff these days?

I'm not sure, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head. But speaking of random Hogan jobs, he was "defeated" by Mike Awesome on the 5/1 2000 Nitro and by Vampiro on the 5/22 2000 Nitro (according to Cawthon's site). I don't remember these at all. I'm assuming they weren't clean jobs.

Maybe this was a bone Hogan tossed as a way to soothe some feelings before he tore through the whole heel roster at that Uncensored PPV.

Ah, gotcha, been a since I watched it, should prob give that 1 re-watch then since I remember very little about the Fall Brawl match. 1 last moment to bring up just since we're on the subject. The time Arn beat Hogan 2 weeks in a row in early 96 is up thear with like the greatest things ever too, especially the 1st week since the match was real good and the clebration afterwards is priceless This happened? Clean?

Bret apparently made Tom Magee look like a million bucks. End of discussion.

Here's a feel good story featuring a wrestler in the mainstream media for a change: Ray Rougeau=Hero

Although his "I hate modern wrestling" shtick is often tiresome, I do get a kick out of Bryan's gleefully anti-WWE F4W headlines. This weeks gem: "Summerslam buyrate tanks"

Shame on me for forgetting the (British) Invasion angle of '64. It helped make the boys the most successful babyfaces ever. Even Lennon's "Bigger than Jesus" promo (which turned him heel in the South) couldn't stop them.

After going over that list I think it's pretty clear that "Who shot JR?" was the greatest and highest drawing angle of all time.

Good point. But one way you could argue against that kind of straight up comparison, and I'm no expert on Japan, is that as far as I know AJPW and NJPW vastly outdrew WCW in every possible way during the 90s, with the possible exception of 97-98. So Sting was a much lesser draw than Japan's top guys. And while he had a number of memorable matches during the 90s, I think his Japanese counterparts were for the most part better workers. (although in a totally different style) On the other hand, I think that there is a bit of a "mystique" for some Western wrestling fans when it comes to Japanese wrestling, in that certain Japanese stars are put up on pedestals and worshipped with almost god-like reverence, similar to how certain Western wrestlers were regarded in Japan during the 50s through the 80s. As a result, some HOF Japanese guys are in perhaps based on being kind of mysterious and unique, while a guy like Sting is a dime a dozen musclehead American wrestler and, without slam dunk HOF credentials (serious drawing power, unique charisma, awesome worker, etc.), has had trouble getting in, and always will. I just pulled that out of my ass, so forgive me if it sounds a little off the mark.

Yeah, it seems like running the B-show PPVs on the network would be the more logical choice. I have no idea how the cable industry works, though. Maybe the plan is to get a ton of subscribers right off the bat by dangling the major shows as incentive, and with more subscribers be able to charge the cable companies and advertisers more money (is that even how it works?), or something. What would be considered a resonable number of subscribers for a start-up cable channel anyway? And how many subscribers, cable fees and ad dollars would they need to equal 1 million buys? This is going to be an interesting story to follow going forward. Who knows, maybe we'll look back at the launch of the network as major turning point. At the very least we should have a lot to post about in the coming months.

After writing about the feud earlier today, I thought I'd watch the Santana vs Savage no DQ match from MSG tonight for the first time in years. Great match, no doubt, but ye gods was Ernie Ladd horrible on commentary! Just totally spewing incoherent random comments and getting the Art Donovan-lets-ignore-him-and-maybe-he'll-just-stop-talking treatment from Monsoon and Hayes (who were also bad, forgetting the match was no DQ and getting on the ref's case about letting the wrestlers go too far). This was perhaps the worst commentated great match I've ever seen.

Was the match between Cena and Rey from a few months back the first between the two, at least since they both became huge stars? If so, it was a little short-sighted to just casually throw a first-time match between arguably the two biggest babyfaces of the last several years on TV with no build. But as we all know, the old rules of promoting "rasslin" no longer apply. Speaking of which, and I know I'm not the first to bring this up, but in the last few years I've envisioned Cena vs Undertaker as a modern version of Hogan vs Andre from Mania 3 (sans the legendary status, but hopefully better worked), with the twist being that the younger guy turns heel and does the job. Maybe for Mania 29 and Takers final match.

Who has ever hung it up at the "right time" and exited gracefully, though? Jack Brisco? Savage? Race, I guess, although his last few years in the ring were nothing to write home about. It's a pretty short list. It seems like almost all the all-time greats have put in time in the ring past the age of 50 (besides those who's careers were cut short due to serious injury or death). I can remember the Sheik, Kowalski, Bobo and others who were stars from the 50s still wrestling in the early-90s. I mean, if guys like Funk, Valentine, and others still want to go at the local high school, community center, or whatever, because they still love to perform, I'm fine with that. It sucks if they are only doing it to pay the bills. I don't know what Funk and Valentine's financial situations are like. Flair definitely needs the money, but he seems to still love wrestling, even if, based on his appearance and physical condition, he should not be in the ring on national TV in 2011. But I think he would still be doing this even if he didn't have 3 or 4 alimony payments a month. (like his title reigns, I've lost count of Ric's marriages ) Ideally, all our heroes, be it wrestlers, football players, rock stars, movie stars, etc., would call it a career before they begin to tarnish their legacies. Realistically, they rarely do.

As far as the MSG series goes (from Cawthon's site): 3/16 86 4/22 86 (no DQ) 5/19 86 (Sammartino ref), which leads to... 6/14 86 Savage/Adonis vs Santana/Bruno 7/12 86 rematch in cage I haven't seen all of these matches, but of the ones I have they are IIRC pretty good and really heated. They also wrestled at Boston Garden on 1/11 86, 2/8 86 (the title change I'm sure you've seen before), and 3/8 86. Of these, I've only seen the title change. In Philly, there was this unique match on 12/7 85: Santana/Tony Atlas vs Savage/Ventura. They wrestled in singles on 3/7 86, 5/10 86, and 5/31 (no DQ). I've never seen any of these matches and don't know what is out there on tape. As for other matches between the two, I don't know of any others off the top of my head, but there is probably some MLG stuff out there.

Like cm funk and Jerry, I'm mostly interested in the historical stuff. I still follow the current scene, mostly passively through online sites and boards because it's easy to get a quick update, but I haven't watched any fed regularly in a couple of years, and I haven't been a "hardcore" fan (at least in my eyes) since about 2001 or so. I am "hardcore" when it comes to reading about wrestling history, and frequently watch old matches, but not really in any substantial volume. I'm pretty much a recovering WWE/WWF junkie going back to the 80s (with Stampede, ECW, WCW, and AWA in the mix through the years), but these days I'm mostly interested in learning about the territories I missed out on. But I've barely scratced the surface when it comes to watching Crockett, Georgia, World Class, Memphis, Portland, etc., let alone Japan or Mexico. Someday maybe. Anyway, I guess of the options provided I enjoy the wrestler discussion the most, followed by the behind the scenes stuff. This is a really cool board, the only one I post on, and my day isn't complete without at least a couple visits. I agree with Jerry that this a unique board and totally different than the usuall IWC (I loathe that term) nonsense. (I'm getting older and demand my wrestling talk be dignified, damn it!!!) Sure, some of the topics don't interest me, but all in all this is a fun place to spend a few minutes here and there. Keep it up, whoever you are.

Lately, I've really been into late-70s/early-80s Greg Valentine. Some of the best heel facials ever (asshole smirk), always sadistically working on the leg, and a perfect foil for a squeaky clean babyface like a Backlund, Santana, Steamboat, etc. Not the best heel ever or anything, but definitely someone you "loved to hate". I agree with many who have already been mentioned like Savage, Austin, Roberts, Raven, Rude. Off the top of my head I would add pre-86 Piper, Ole Anderson, and for sentimental reasons (but also because I truly hated him when I was 9 years old) Makhan Singh.

Honestly, this could be a lot of fun. Although, wouldn't a match involving Kermit break Muppet kayfabe for the live audience?

Cheers to Mark after years of ups and downs. Funny that his first world title win comes on a night when Cena wins his 10th. (or is it more?) That kind of sums up the year for WWE: we'll try a few new things, but in the end it's back to business as usual.

For those who missed this link from Bryan's daily update. Some (bitter) ex-WWE employee has a bit too much free time on their hands. Cranky Vince

Dusty Rhodes: For years all I thought of when I heard his name was poka dots and bad commentary. Because of timing and geography, I missed his glory days completely and only knew of late-80s/90s Dusty. I think it was the Superstar Graham WWE doc that first opened my eyes to his greatness, and subsequent viewing of his WWE dvd and YouTube made me a big fan. He's one of my all time faves now. On the other hand... RVD: Um, yeah. Why did I love this guy again? I don't remember. Being young and a blind ECW mark certainly helped. I'm not saying I "hate" the guy, or that I don't enjoy some of his work. I just saw one of his 1996 matches with Sabu not too long ago (the one where they both do stretcher jobs) and thought it was pretty good. But for the most part I could care less if I ever see him wrestle again.