Ricky Jackson

I see Obama like Cena as far as "crowd reactions" go, with a complete heel turn a distinct possibility in the future. W was like HHH, getting a huge push based on family connections, sometimes a face, but more comfortable as a heel, and he wore out his welcome with many fans/voters as top guy long before he stepped aside.

US Presidents as wrestling champions has potential. Depending on ones political views, there were a lot of heels (Hoover, Nixon, Bush II, etc) and faces (FDR, Lincoln, Obama). Some presidents (most, I guess) would have been heels in one "territory" (Lincoln in the South) and faces in another (Lincoln in the North), like Lawler in WWF and Memphis. Presidential races as feuds, speeches as promos, some guys having no charisma (Ford), some guys being a "poor draw" as president (Carter), etc.

92-96 really does look like a golden age of booking for WWF/E when comparing it to almost everything that has followed. Although there were exceptions, for the most part wins and losses mattered, titles were protected, feuds were built up and followed through---in short, they still booked PRO WRESTLING during this time. I've never really thought about it before, but the influence of "southern wrestling" guys like Cornette, Ross, Lawler, Watts, even Jerry Jarrett (my God, what would have happened, as was supposedly the plan, if Vince went to prison in 94 and Jarrett took over the day to day operations?) is obvious in retrospect. Too bad business tanked and, well, we all know what came next. (I LOVED WWF in 97 and 98, but looking back, Montreal was "the day the music died" for me as a fan, and it was all downhill from there) I haven't had the same emotional connection to wrestling since the late-90s, and probably never will again.

Boris Zhukov left the AWA for WWF while still one half of the tag champs in 87. In the same year, Sherri Martel was, I think, still technically AWA women's champ when she joined WWF. And wasn't Zbyszko still AWA champ when he joined WCW in 1990? I guess you could also say Hansen left in 86 while still AWA champ. Man, I never realized how many champions bolted on Verne in the final years until making this post. Edit: beaten to it on a few, and I forgot about Lawler, which makes it even worse.

Funny story about that one. Years ago I ordered the Pillman tribute tape from RF. That match was supposed to be on it, but instead a match between, I think, Austin and Scott Steiner from the same card was included in its place for some reason (anybody else have this "error tape"? I was burned by RF another time as well--the old "blank tape con") Anyway, the match is filled with snarky, "look how smart we are" comments from two dudes (I didn't know one was Feinstein at the time), including one of them saying "this has 15 minute draw written all over it" within the first few minutes of the match. Sure enough, the match ended in a draw. SO SMART!

This stance has definitely become Dave's Achilles Heel as a journalist. But he apparently has an agenda of some sort, so he's going to keep on it.

The whole thing was awesome, but that part really made me You truly are the master of the "what if all pop culture used wrestling booking?" scenario. Bravo.

It's a weird deal, because the only people I know that watch wrestling these days are friends of mine who, like myself and all of us on this board, have been watching off and on for years and are part of the 5% (or whatever the number might be) of fans for whom wrestling is more than just a casual interest. Ten years ago was a different story, as I knew tons of people who watched wrestling religiously who had no idea about the inner workings, shoot names of wrestlers, used insider terminology, etc.,--that is, those in the 95% bracket. Where are they now? Obviously there are millions of the 95% out there, as Raw still draws ratings that only a handful of cable shows can match. I meet up with former wrestling fans all the time. The story is always the same: they can talk about Austin, the Rock, Foley, Undertaker, Goldberg, Hogan, etc., but have little to no knowledge of anything that has happened in wrestling in the last 7-8 years. (It's always funny when I ask these former fans if they have ever watched TNA, which, besides saying "no", usually garners some variation of the response "What a stupid name") It seems like wrestling in 2011 is extremely uncool, almost like it was in the mid-90s, and that Raw's ratings should really be in the tank, but they are not, and millions still watch every week. It's one of life's great mysteries. I think that there is always a large group of closet wrestling fans out there just waiting for wrestling to be cool again so they can talk about it in public without ridicule. Until then, they will remain the silent majority.

Yeah, I wondered if that was correct. Sometimes it seems like the only thing Dave knows about college football is that the Rock played for Miami at some point. I know. I was expecting a twist ending or something...like the complete stranger Shawn asked how to tie a tie turned out to be Dwayne Johnson when he played for Miami back in 1989. And I know it's been asked before, but who is Chuck Langerman: Wrestling trivia master?

The only thing I could find was this result: A few things: The ten bell salute was obviously for Fritz Von Erich, not Chris Dory Funk Jr vs RVD is kinda random Dennis Stamp was booked and was involved (sorry, couldn't resist) Edit: Found these results: I wonder if there was a plan to bring them in as the bloodthirsty Sheepherders at some point. That would have been pretty cool actually.

It's funny how some of these threads go off on strange tangents that have nothing to do with the original topic. Anyway, for the sake of accuracy, Cawthon has September 15, 1996 as the Bushwhackers last date for WWF, in Nashville vs. the obscure team of Freddie Joe Floyd & Uncle Zebakiah (Dutch Mantel?). I couldn't find anything from 96 or 97 regarding them and Pillman interacting. Even though I hated them during the 90s, I have to tip my hat to the Bushwhackers for surviving long after most of the 80s cartoons were long gone.

Really? Talk about a clash of styles/philosophies/era's. Sort of like when Austin and Doink crossed paths at that Slammy Awards show.

I know I hated this Rumble at the time, with the rushed entries and forgettable characters, and it especially felt poor following a run of 4 or 5 good to great Rumble's in a row. I haven't seen it since 95 and really have no desire to ever see it again. The really quick Bushwacker elimination (Luke, 4 seconds) happened at the 91 Rumble, although both Luke and Butch were eliminated from the 95 Rumble quickly (12 and 19 seconds respectively). Honestly, until I checked wikipedia to refresh my memory, I was unaware the Bushwackers were even still around in early 95. And yes, Murdoch was in this Rumble (lasted 5:08).

Although it sounds so stupid, maybe the plan was to have Flair lose, get buzzed, and come back repackaged as Spartacus. Glad they went with Robocop as the draw instead.

Even though it was only two years ago, I totally forgot the Cena/Orton match ever happened. Was it any good?

Come on now, details on specific instances. It's funnier that way.I wasn't clear, it's not "stupidest babyfaces" it's stupid things they've done. For Sting, it has to be teaming with Flair, who he had feuded with on and off for 7 or so years, not to mention previously being burned when he trusted him back in 1990, to face Pillman and Anderson at Halloween Havoc 95. A 3 year old would have looked at that situation and said to Sting "You're a dumbass if you think you can team with this guy and not have him betray you in the end".

Great stuff so far. I knew Patera started in the AWA, but I didn't know about his Mid-Atlantic babyface run or his first heel run with Watts.

Slaughter wrestled as Super Destroyer "Mark II" in his early days.

I think the Spoiler/Jardine was Super Destroyer in Carolinas (also AWA).

There seems to be a fair amount of 70s Stampede kicking around, or at least the late-70s/ early-DK and Bret era. I'm no expert, but there also seems to be plenty late-70s Georgia TBS stuff, and some Crockett, Florida, and Memphis, among others. Isn't there also a fair amount of AWA from the 70s around? Or is most of this territory footage hidden away in a vault in Stamford? Anyway, I think a decent set could be made of (at least) 75-79 wrestling and it would not have to be overwhelmingly WWWF/Japan. Unfortunately, most of the big house show matches from the main territories were never filmed, so it would be mostly TV angles and matches.

I'm not sure it was the hottest period ever, as I've read that the 70-73 period was maybe the hottest as far as having the most territiories doing record business at the same time is concerned. Also, many once thriving territories like LA, San Fran, Detroit, Vancouver, St. Louis, Amarillo, and Montreal either declined greatly or outright died during the 77-84 period. That being said, it was still a pretty hot era, and in the last few years I've really come to see the 77-84 period (I would even say 75-85) as perhaps the most exciting and diverse period ever. WWF, Crockett, Georgia, Stampede, World Class, Memphis, Toronto, Portland, AWA, Mid South, Florida, etc. all went through super hot periods with tons of memorable characters, matches, and angles during the time, of which I've barely scratched the surface when it comes to watching certain territories. And this is not even factoring in Japan, England and other countries. Just a really fun time, and sometimes I wish I had been old enough to have been a fan then (born in 77, but not a fan until 86).

I was thinking the same thing as Jerry. I think there is no doubt Buddy being a jobber/joke in many fans eyes during his last national run will likely effect some voters opinions. I think Buddy getting in will depend heavily on how many voters are open to seriously evaluating his career through watching the available footage of Buddy's best matches/angles/promos. Also, Dave's excellent bio on him from a few years back made him look like a million bucks and really made a great case for him being a HOF guy, which should improve his chances somewhat for those voters who have read it. I know reading it opened my eyes big time to Buddy and led me to seek out his career highlights. Personally, I'd love to see Buddy get in, but reversing years of negative or underwhelming opinions on a wrestler can be a massive hurdle to overcome. I think Patera and Blackwell, as well as others I've mentioned like Rich and Slaughter (other than his contoversial run in 90/91, he was not big time player after 85 or so), all fall into this area to varrying degrees.

The supposed main event of Lockdown 2012 does not sound very appealing on paper.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss....

Just a random late-night observation, but it almost seems like there is some sort of HOF bias against a lot of wrestlers who did well in the 1977-1984 period, but whose careers dropped off after that point, like Rose, Blackwell, and Patera. You could also add Mr.Wrestling II, Tommy Rich, Sgt. Slaughter, and maybe JYD to that group. Of course, I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions.