WingedEagle

If its not brought up by the announcers or made an explicit focus, such as working a limb for an extended period, why would we go the choose your own adventure route and read things into a match? If its really that subtle I don't see how one can say they're picking up on the actual storytelling. One thing I've realized while watching for GWE is just how big an impact announcing, and in the case of foreign announcing, can have on a match. Right or wrong it will color what you see in the ring to varying degrees. When watching matches in a foreign language I'll to some extent rely on prior matches I may have seen and the "big" expressiveness, if you will, of the performers. But I think it requires a pretty big leap of faith and creativity to look for fine print.

Very possibly the Miz. It seems as though a lot of folks are enjoying his current character and use. Not here. Always an opportunity to mute and check things out online or go ask the wife how the Bachelor is this week.

I assure you Shane McMahon does not slip in a USB with his audio before walking out. The entire show is a production and in order for it to run smoothly those in charge of presenting it need to know when to cue up certain audio/video. That's not a part of the show that is being improvised.

Production had to have known to have Michaels's music ready.

Pretty incredible. Just such an odd, persistent mistake.

How come the dates listed for many PPVs on the Network are off by a day? Watched some random WCW today, every one was off by a day. Checked out a few other WWF shows and similarly off by a day. Really odd.

Anyone watch the Brock/Harper match from the night before Roadblock? Haven't watched yet but hope to check it out.

This is basically what I'm weighing as I decide 1 vs. 2 for Kobashi. Gut says 1, head says 2. I think it might be a cool exercise to list them out. If you don't want to, I might have a go later. So for Kobashi, I wanted to break out 10 of his top singles performances as well as a top 10 in tags. Not looking to be in any way definitive here but ID if you like All Japan / NOAH you're likely on board with most of these classics. This was also framed to show just how long he stretched out elite performances as well as that they came against folks other than Misawa & Kawada (though they're obviously heavily represented). Also dropping in a "next 10" for both singles and tags as these lists are just as impressive. As would the next 10 or 20. Top 10 Singles: Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi 7/29/93 Steve Williams vs. Kenta Kobashi 8/31/93 Kenta Kobashi vs Akira Taue 7/24/96 Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi 1/20/97 Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi 10/21/97 Kenta Kobashi vs Jun Akiyama 7/24/98 Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi 10/31/98 Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama 5/26/00 Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa 3/1/03 Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama 4/25/04 10 More Singles: Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi 9/4/91 Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi 10/23/93 Steve Williams vs. Kenta Kobashi 9/3/94 Kenta Kobashi vs Akira Taue 7/24/95 Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi 10/25/95 Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi 6/11/99 Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshinari Ogawa 11/1/2003 Kenta Kobashi vs Takao Omori 4/15/00 Kenta Kobashi vs Jun Akiyama 7/10/04 Kenta Kobashi vs Minoru Suzuki, 1/8/05 Top 10 Tags & Multi-Man: Jumbo Tsuruta & Kenta Kobashi vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Stan Hansen 7/15/89 Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi 10/19/90 Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi vs Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi 4/20/91 Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi 5/22/95 Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Doug Furnas & Dan Kroffat 5/25/92 Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue 6/1/93 Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue 12/3/93 Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue 5/21/94 Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue 6/9/95 Kobashi & Takayama vs Misawa & Akiyama, 12/2/07 Next 10 Tags & Multi-Man: Jumbo Tsuruta & Great Kabuki & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Akira Taue & Kenta Kobashi 5/26/90 Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue 6/5/92 Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa 7/2/93 Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue 10/15/95 Mitsuharu Misawa & Yoshinari Ogawa vs Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama 3/6/99 Kobashi & Akiyama vs. Hansen & Taue 12/99 Misawa & Kobashi vs Akiyama & Nagata, 2/17/02 Akiyama & Tenryu vs Kobashi & Shiozaki 4/24/05 Akiyama & Tenryu vs Kobashi & Taue 9/18/05 Kobashi & Kensuke Sasaki vs. Tenryu & Nakajima 2/11/06

Will look to do so tonight when I can look over some lists. What I think might be even more interesting is looking at the next 10 and seeing just how incredible they are as second tier performances.

This is basically what I'm weighing as I decide 1 vs. 2 for Kobashi. Gut says 1, head says 2.

You've got me thinking I should try my own rankings this way. We'll see if it happens as the deadline approaches.

Very different direction. The pros and cons are out there. Leaving her impact on the style aside, her highlights are too great to be discounted by the weaknesses. Now if you don't dig her big matches at all, well, you're not about to find any value in the matches that followed where she & co. pushed things and no one discussing Manami Toyota in 2016 is likely going to be persuaded too much in either direction.

Selling, logical progression of moves, moving to get into position for your opponent to hit a move on you, etc.... If I watch a wrestler and don't think to myself that "this doesn't make sense" or "why would he do that" then they are logical. How far does logical go though? Shouldn't most offensive moves actually finish someone? Where each promotion can essentially establish the rules of their own universe it would seem to take away quite a bit to only buy what's logical. Shouldn't every wrestler roll away from an opponent coming off the top? Once there are certain standards or "laws" with consequences then it would seem at that point we can react to occurrences in the ring that prove consistent or not. Sometimes those inconsistencies make for tremendous moments, such as kicking out of something near the finish that has previously been the death knell, or can be problematic where it happens too early. It just seems if we're really being logical then every match should end pretty quickly and just about everything a wrestler does is illogical. Once he's taken any sustained punishment, how is he alive, much less able to mount a fiery comeback? Enjoy it! It doesn't have to be MMA, it just has to make sense within the context of wrestling. An irish whip is completely fine. Point is that there are different contexts, and those contexts can be changed. You have Jumbo piledriving Kawada on the floor on 4/20/91 and then later following with a spike piledriver on the floor, but that's still regarded as an all timer rather than a stop the presses moment because the piledriver wasn't a finisher that told everyone it was time to go home. Or a series of spectacular dives in countless lucha matches where one should be sufficient. Not suggesting there's a problem with an Irish whip, but where do you draw the line? Is it what's been put over as a finisher or a Mortal Kombat fatality that must end things, or when the viewer thinks its enough, conditioning and history be damned?

Angle comp makes a lot more sense than Sabu. Personally find that Toyota's highs vastly exceed Kurt's, but there are certainly similarities between their talents, flaws and styles. I still don't think Toyota gets quite enough credit for her style and doing what she did *when* she did it, as it really looked like an evolutionary jump compared to what was going on at the time.

Selling, logical progression of moves, moving to get into position for your opponent to hit a move on you, etc.... If I watch a wrestler and don't think to myself that "this doesn't make sense" or "why would he do that" then they are logical. How far does logical go though? Shouldn't most offensive moves actually finish someone? Where each promotion can essentially establish the rules of their own universe it would seem to take away quite a bit to only buy what's logical. Shouldn't every wrestler roll away from an opponent coming off the top? Once there are certain standards or "laws" with consequences then it would seem at that point we can react to occurrences in the ring that prove consistent or not. Sometimes those inconsistencies make for tremendous moments, such as kicking out of something near the finish that has previously been the death knell, or can be problematic where it happens too early. It just seems if we're really being logical then every match should end pretty quickly and just about everything a wrestler does is illogical. Once he's taken any sustained punishment, how is he alive, much less able to mount a fiery comeback? Enjoy it!

Absolutely loved this. Made sitting in traffic a total blats. Enjoyed the contrast of your lists and how you both responded to those differences. Favorite part was Parv saying the name "Low Ki" as though Ki himself was in the room and just farted. Hilarious.

What Sabu match approaches anything among Toyota's top couple dozen matches? Haven't found it yet. Looking back on a lot of ECW and indy stuff from that era I've found Sabu's matches have held up worse than almost anyone. Set up a table, break the table, meander about for a while until setting up the next table. Rinse and repeat, maybe swapping out the table for another object.

You'd think something that big emanating from the actual boardroom would get picked up in the financial press as well.

What are Liger's best matches as a heel other than the NOAH feud?

Those are directly inverse career trajectories. So? One is a great peak and the other is a down period for the guy. It just happens to be at different ends of their careers. Why not treat them the same? Sarcasm or you believe this? A question. One guy got great earlier and then when his athletics failed him had a down period. The other took longer to get great, but once they did they stayed great until they retired. What is wrong with treating a slow starter to a slow finisher? Because they are not remotely the same thing.

PUMPED.

Those are directly inverse career trajectories. So? One is a great peak and the other is a down period for the guy. It just happens to be at different ends of their careers. Why not treat them the same? Sarcasm or you believe this?

Very excited.

Do we know ye tif Shane is sticking around beyond Mania?

Not sure I understand the hate for the piledriver on the floor. Let's say he did it in every match in the 70s. If it never finished anyone, why the uproar? Seems like if it had been established as a move of death and regarded as such consistently, then presenting it as a random high spot makes all the sense in the world. But otherwise why are we choosing how he should finish a match?