WingedEagle

An interesting question to ask would be: How many different guys had their best match with Flair? How many different guys had their best match with Fujinami? How many with Jumbo? And so on down the line. I think that's a metric that might help Lawler, but the quality bar on both those matches and those opponents probably lower. How many people wrestled as many different opponents as Flair did in big (could have good matches like title match) settings. Absolutely no one, so of course no one did it better than Flair. Nobody even had the chance (taped at least). With that logic you can also say Flair is being discounted for not working low on the card, in big tags, in brawls. All they asked him to do was main event in world title matches around the country. Which is why others did those other things "better" than Flair.

Picking up with the Best of the Horsemen during the blizzard this afternoon, and its amazing how great the squashes here are. Every one of them has something fun to offer. Andersons destroying some poor bastard's arm, Flair shaking hands with Rocky King after disposing of him, etc. Just phenomenal.

+1 for the Moondogs. Super, quick, violent squashes. Great call there.

YES! Exactly this. Who else could ever pull 3 (in my eyes) classics out of Terry Taylor? Still scratching my head how you found each of their 3 matches so different, quality-wise, but the point about Flair remains. The mileage they get out of that headlock in the third is just incredible. Still coming down from it, rare that I see a Flair classic I've not seen before. Last time I felt like this was seeing the 92 Tenryu match. I don't know why the other two didn't hit the spot like that one. But I do agree that I find it difficult to imagine Jumbo, Fujinami, Hansen, Lawler or even Bock pulling a match that good out of Taylor. I think Terry Funk probably could. You won't want to do it now, but I'd say its worth rewatching the first 2 with fresh eyes when you have the opportunity. The first is still my favorite, very possibly due to the fact that I didn't expect anything approaching that level going into it, but just didn't find the others to be very far behind.

YES! Exactly this. Who else could ever pull 3 (in my eyes) classics out of Terry Taylor? Still scratching my head how you found each of their 3 matches so different, quality-wise, but the point about Flair remains. The mileage they get out of that headlock in the third is just incredible.

I understand the arguments for Fujinami and Jumbo, and interestingly find Jumbo with higher highs and much lower lows. But at the end of the day there isn't enough of a body of work to trump Flair's output across the globe and territories. Hell, he's responsible for one of Jumbo's best matches of the 80s and MOTD contenders with folks who wouldn't otherwise rate near the top of anyone's list. Just too much to overcome.

And working the arm! Second this vote. Just killers.

Don't know where Brie's passions lie as we haven't spoken about it, but pretty sure WWE employment won't be a problem for Mrs. Cena as long as that's who she is.

No disagreement there. Expectations matter tremendously and I generally think people significantly underrate them. Last night I watched the Danielson/Aries 80 minute 2/3 falls match from 2004. Had been putting it off for weeks because it was eighty freaking minutes. Sure enough, I was blown away and thought the match flew by. Just loved it, which I didn't think would be remotely possible. Had Danielson not suffered an apparent concussion midway through the sky was the limit.

Fair enough. Perhaps I was doing backflips over it because I hadn't watched much Flair in a while, but I thought the world these, to the point that the first felt like a potential top 20 match for Flair. Curious if I love it as much the next time I check it out, but have to imagine the series will rise & fall together for me.

Parv, very clear here why you didn't like this match. Very interested why it came up so short with their first encounter as I didn't find it a huge departure from that one. I was absolutely blown by the Taylor series (and am no fan of Taylor's), to the point that if someone pointed to these 3 matches as their case for Flair as GOAT, while not necessarily agreeing, I couldn't exactly say they were out of their minds. The first match had better character work with Flair playing the sportsman before snapping, and then working lots of great little things as the pissed off heel world champion. We also had Flair selling the leg there in a nice contrast, and a better conclusion. That said, thought this match was also a vintage "little things" outing from the champ, jawing with the ref, making sure that every hammerlock and headlock was not a wasted resthold but rather an opportunity to put over the challenger and sell the effects of such holds. Then you had Flair work the arm only for Taylor to pay it back down the stretch. I found those matches a series of brilliant performances by Flair to carry a perfectly average opponent to compelling, MOTYC quality title bouts with enough variation from match to match that if they were presented on TV week to week it'd have been considered a tour de force. Well that's quite a long-winded way to inquire about the comparison, isn't it?

The added hour of Raw also makes a huge difference when creative is lacking. Much tougher to sit through.

Not sure who was into it. Most people I know aren't wrestling fans to begin with, let alone watching weekly TV, but this is the first praise I've seen for it.

I was in college in STL until May '03. No UPN affiliate there. Returned to NY for grad school and watched Smackdown sporadically at that point depending on classes / woman as this was pre-dvr.

Democracy!

I'm not remotely interested in whether a match is called on the fly or laid out in advance. Can make for some interesting stories after the fact but it won't have any bearing on what I thought of the match or the participants.

Three months out from the show Shinsuke Nakamura is not WWE character ready to have a major match at Wrestlemania unless they went balls out on advertising it as an "interpromotional" match with a NJPW star who then became a WWE act regularly afterwards but even then I don't know what kind of hook that has with casual fans who don't follow puro or care about it. Bray Wyatt on the other hand is an established WWE act who the fans know and can buy in a match with Brock. I am not even arguing that Nakamura couldn't be a big deal at some point for the WWE (although to be honest I have serious doubts about that due to how WWE has gone about things and as Goodhelmet pointed out earlier in here or other thread, this is Vince's show, I can't trust that being endorsed by Triple H overrides years of Vince mentality), but it's not happening in three months. AJ Styles has a better chance for immediate success because he's been a major name on the US indies and for the #2 and #3 US promotions in recent past and even him I don't believe will have the kind of impact that warrants a Brock Wrestlemania match in three months. For the masses, that may very well be correct. I'd be into a Nak match tomorrow. On the other hand, after the last 2+ years I don't think 3 months is nearly enough time to turn Bray into someone who'd make a credible and interesting opponent for Brock. In fact he may have a lot more to overcome than Nakamura or any other fresh face.

If you value Nakamura, the idea of him in a big match is enticing. Similarly, if you think Wyatt is awful, the idea of him in a big match is not so appealing.

Even before "Wrestle Kingdom" there was the 1/4 Tokyo Dome tradition which I believe dates back to '92. Before that, there were big Dome shows for a few years, but not necessarily at a certain point on the calendar. What about before the Dome era? Would it be their Tag Tourney? Perhaps the singles tourney they had for a bit?

Took the bar exam during the summer of '06 and thus missed almost all of the DX reunion tour. Never had any interest in going back to relive it. I may be the outlier here but thought business picked on the original run beginning with X-Pac's return the night after Mania. Never found the original trio all that special. The Hart feud was great as a standalone, but nothing involving Hunter & Chyna at that time interested me.

Right, I don't think it troubles me -- as long as the sample is solid. More interested in how often and with whom people are relying on a smaller sample.

What matches of his were reviewed here?

This. Never doubt for a minute that his priority is increasing his pile of money, so I imagine he'd only take issue with booking and opponents that compromise future earnings.

Mentioned it in the Vince thread but curious how others are approaching this more broadly. How many people are you ranking on a limited number of matches? What's the fewest matches you'll be ranking a given worker on? As an example, I believe Parv mentioned Hiroshi Hase as a top 20 candidate after roughly 10 matches. Curious how comfortable people are with a smaller sample size for certain wrestlers up and down the ballot.

Maybe I'm alone there. Bray is one of the least interesting guys on the roster for me. Just don't understand how or why you drop Brock into this supernatural nonsense.