Jimmy Redman

Oh I fully expect them to shoot for Roman/Brock at Summerslam. It's the only possible way to go at this point. And hell I'm down for that. I didn't love the first match QUITE as much as the people who called it ***** and MOTY and all that stuff, but it was a fucking awesome match. I mean Jesus, if they'd not done that Seth Rollins nonsense and just had Roman win at WM32, we probably wouldn't even be here. Roman was winning the crowd over before your very eyes in that match, that was his moment, and then they fucked it up for that booking and went back to "Authority is holding Roman down so bad!!" crap for another year. I'd say shoot for Braun as his first big challenger, but I have zero faith in them being able to keep Braun this hot for that long. I mean if they're doing the match Roman should go over Taker. I just don't really want to see the match to begin with. It's a little Roman, a little Taker is getting old, and a lot that they didn't do the Cena match when they had the chance.

I never said or suggested that Roman isn't the heel vs Taker, or that he wouldn't get booed here. Of course he would. But just because they've decided to lean into the boos for this Taker thing doesn't negate the fact that they're still trying to push him as a top face and crowds still fucking hate it. I may be a casual observer at this point but I'm not making up the boos. They're there. People do not like him. Trying to paint his neverending push as some kind of Vince genius masterplan instead of hubris is just as dense an idea as anything you're accusing me of. It's just almost comical, if anything, the way that they tease the crowd with something new and exciting, only to swerve and give them Roman again all along. Build up Braun Strowman as an unstoppable monster, get him over...only for Roman to be the one to beat him. Have Taker come out to face Braun and tease that match...only to have him BACK AWAY and have Roman come out instead. Gotcha. Roman is basically like a Twitter avatar, one that Vince hides behind to troll his audience with for the lulz. Someone just brought up the idea of trolling the smarks above, and it's a question we should be asking at some point, whether it's worth it. At some point the booking of Roman went from "we'll just keep pushing and pushing him until they like him" to "we'll just keep pushing and pushing him because even if they keep booing it's pretty funny". I'm not sure how successful (or mature) a promoting strategy that is. Cena thrived and drew as a polarising babyface, I'm not sure how much Roman is doing the same - it's been a long time since I've paid attention to WWE business minutiae, but last I heard Roman, while getting many more cheers at house shows, isn't much of a draw. Maybe things have changed since then, I don't know, I'd be happy to be set straight. But as it stands you're left with a guy who WWE wants as their top babyface star (using him as the heel vs Taker notwithstanding) whom crowds consistently and vehemently reject in that position. He gets booed now as a matter of course (it has long since reached the Cena "cool thing to do" stage) but it's those moments where they try to position him where they want him that the fans REALLY hate. Whenever they set something up for Roman to make the save, whenever they give Roman another title match, whenever Roman comes out late in the Rumble or they think he might win it, when Roman gets to challenge the Undertaker at Wrestlemania...what you hear is booing but the sentiment could more accurately be described as groaning. Not again. Not him, not again. They just have to keep pushing him until it takes, one way or the other, somehow some way. I mean they finally, after years, cottoned onto the vitriol and have started leaning into the boos. For so long they tried to ignore them or make them go away. Then finally they went as far as acknowledging them. Now they realise they can use them, and just use him as a foil for whatever they really want to get over, because when faced with Roman Reigns as an alternative, they warm up to what's happening pretty quickly. See Orton's Rumble win, or getting Taker wrestling in 2017 over to where they want it. People will be going mad cheering for Taker at Mania, because beating him still means something, Streak or not, and nobody wants Roman to have that. So that match might have the most heat at Mania and they can pat themselves on the back saying how over Roman is, and go back to building him up as The Guy the day after. But it will just never work. Fans won't accept him, or anyone, as The Guy when it's this personal, when they just do NOT want him to succeed. Loss is right, they still haven't recovered from the 2015 Rumble. Roman will probably never recover from it. Short of a heel turn, of course. Not this kind of non-turn, "let's allow him to be booed vs more popular guys" thing but an actual heel turn. Because smarks are dumb and heel turns usually fix any ill will hardcore fans have towards a babyface. He turns heel, gets to cut loose and cut interesting, scathing promos, call the fans idiots (they like that) and do some "real work", smarks usually turn around pretty quickly and proclaim that he's improved so much and is such a great worker now and deserves better. And the cheers begin. As seen with...well every babyface ever. With that plus the amount of sheer relief the fans will feel if he finally does turn, that they got what they wanted, they'll be over the moon about him pretty quickly I think, so it would work as a reset button. And if it doesn't get him cheered, then hell, you have a super mega heel on your hands. Win win. I feel bad for Roman for all this. I do. He's actually a super great in-ring worker and has been for a while, I think we can all agree. He's going to be the biggest "discovery" as a worker for smart fans in 15 years when all the vitriol is long gone. Look at how people are coming around on Cena already. But as a star on the level they want him to be, he just...rubs people the wrong way. I don't know that he'll ever really overcome that. And the similarities to Cena are there, for sure, but again as I understand it Roman isn't a megadraw who can carry that baggage along with him like Cena has. So you're left with just...trolling your loyal audience over and over again. Which is hilarious I guess but...yeah. Good luck with that.

The reaction when Undertaker faced off with Braun and Roman individually was something. One match-up makes the crowd chant "HOLY SHIT!" at the very idea of them facing each other. The other makes the crowd boo vociferously in protest at the very idea of them facing each other. Guess which one we're getting. But mainly, Braun backing away from Undertaker is the stupidest fucking thing I ever saw. I did enjoy Samoa Joe using SDvsRaw on Playstation 2 Logic of "wrestle outside until the count gets to 9 and then knock him out and jump back in to win by countout" to beat Jericho, I laughed forever. Actually no, the best thing I saw this week was the girls thing on SD, where Nattie KILLS Becky with a German on her head, only for Mickie to top it by KILLING Alexa with a kick so badly that Alexa's head spun around on her shoulders like she was in a horror movie. That was awesome.

To be fair, it's not just the girls who can freeze when things go wrong. I mean, Randy Orton is one of the most polished, seasoned veterans on the roster, and yet he's renowned for stopping in his tracks and throwing a tantrum when something goes awry in the ring. Not everyone can deal with mishaps, and not everyone who can deal with them can deal with them every time. Sometimes things go wrong. For that one, I don't even know how you can blame Bayley all that much, since clearly the first time she went for her thing but Charlotte hadn't lifted herself into position yet, so she turned around to go again and when she did Charlotte's hand slipped off and she STILL wasn't there, so Bayley ended up elbowing the air. Bayley was leaping by that point, I'm not sure how she could have realised and magicked herself a foot closer to the corner in time. Charlotte was out of position for the spot. Reminds me of when Charlotte dumped Sasha on her head and nearly snapped her neck, and all people could talk about was how sloppy Sasha was.

Yeah of course it does. I guess my point is that the equivalent to a male being super ripped and muscley is a female who is super skinny and fit-looking. So like, the "smaller" you are the better for your career, as opposed to males where the "bigger" you are the better.

Sometime around Daniel Bryan's whole deal, I imagine.

The women still deal with size discrimination affecting pushes, but more often it goes the other way. Men get pushed if they're bigger or get bigger, whereas women are more likely to be punished for being big or getting bigger. Unless you're a monster or athletic freak type like Charlotte/Chyna/Nia/etc., they want the girls to be fit and thin and not have excess body fat. Female wrestlers also use steroids and develop addictions to diet pills, eating disorders, etc. in an attempt to maintain that look on the road. They're also more likely to be publicly shamed by the company for their appearance than a man. Look at how they portrayed Vickie. Look at how they portrayed Molly Holly post-heel turn. Look at how they treated Mickie James in 2009 when they felt she had gained weight. They don't care that Charlotte is as big as she is. But they'd care if Sasha put on 20 lbs. and looked flabby.

Oh plenty of people dislike Bubba as a wrestler. Dude was a liberty taking sack of shit with younger talent and was still trying it in the recent WWE run until Big E fucked his world up one match. Bully Ray was (initially) a pretty great character, but he certainly didn't have any great matches with the gimmick. He had at least two - vs AJ Styles and vs Aries.

Yeah well exactly, and that's the main reason why she's not going in now. I think it was Hunter or Steph or someone who admitted publicly that she should be in but for the porn thing. So I guess whenever in the future that the porn thing stops being a dealbreaker, she'll go in. Who knows when that will be though.

Mickie James is a six-time Women's Champion. Melina is a five-time champion, first and only Tough Enough alum to win Women's Title. Beth Phoenix is a four-time champion and held the belt longer (in total) than anyone in her era. Nikki Bella has the record for the longest Divas Title reign. Michelle McCool was the first Divas Champion. Candice Michelle was the first Diva Search girl to win the title. AJ Lee had that 300 day reign, she was also Raw GM and in lots of important angles. Victoria is a two-time champion, was in the first women's cage match and is seen as a good worker. Molly Holly is also a two-time champion, was the first woman to get her head shaved in WWE, also seen as a worker. I'm not advocating for anyone and I agree that cases from this era of the women's division are paper thin, but there are kayfabe things they could come up with if they wanted to start inducting them. With Beth, I'm guessing it's because women's wrestling/feminism is "in" and they want a woman in, and Beth is young, looks good, speaks well, gets along well with the company, has enough of a career that they can sell it, and was unique and athletic enough that they can sell her as a role model for the current women. Chyna will go in eventually, but inducting her will be a little morbid and I don't think that's the tone they want at this point.

Just to be clear, I never said that Vince hates women or anything remotely conspiratorial like that. The women's division has come a long way in the last 12 months and I'm super happy about it. My issue is with a specific booking decision, with the idea of throwing all of the Raw women into a title match at Mania. I don't like it because it doesn't feel like a natural progression, it feels like a way to shoehorn them all onto the card. They're doing and will do a lot of convoluted stuff that makes little sense to get them all in the match (such as the babyfaces cheating to win here), and a messy four-way seems like a WAY worse idea on paper than a big, focused singles match like Charlotte/Bayley or Sasha/Bayley that they could have been building to for months. The same way they have done with, say, Jericho/Owens. After the progress they have made, after the strides they have made to treat the women's work the same as men's, longer matches, headlining TV, headlining PPVs...after all that, they get to Mania, the biggest show, and all they can think of is "hey just throw them all in a match". It feels a little regressive, like a nod back to where we were two years ago and earlier. It's a reminder that while they've come a long way, there's still a long way to go too. Which is exactly what I said in the first place. I never mentioned main eventing Mania either, but since it came up, yes it is a big bar to clear, the biggest in fact, but it still has to be the goal. Don't forget that after last Mania everyone was going nuts about the women having the best match and being the most over on the show. It didn't seem so far-fetched then. I remember at the time I said I wanted Sasha/Bayley to main event this year, and like, I really wasn't joking. Now of course the scene has simmered down due to booking and general main roster malaise so it hasn't seemed like an option for a while now, but the seed is there.

That's a hell of a tidbit.

No I get that, and it's tough trying to fit everyone onto Mania, but it's about priorities. The top male wrestlers WILL get top singles matches/title matches/showcase matches at Mania. It's when you get down to the midcard or leftover guys where they'll get thrown into a random undercard match or the battle royal to get them on the show. Jobbers will struggle to make it on. But the top female wrestlers WILL get thrown into their random undercard matches to get them on the show. Everyone below them misses out. The women have kind of made it from the absolute bottom of that Midcard/Throw Them On Somewhere tier to the top of it. That's progress I guess. But they're still ways away from cracking the top tier. They flirted with it by having them main event a B PPV and Raw and stuff (and again I'm not complaining about that kind of progress) but when you get to Mania you see where their REAL priorities lie. And at Mania the clock strikes midnight and the women have to go back into their box. We need the time for the real stars. Like, the fact that the women have come so far in the last 12 months kind of makes it worse. During the year they can main event PPVs and TV and have 30 minute title matches and stuff. They've shown that they have the workers and the popularity to do it. But they won't even consider building two separate women's issues for Mania. They won't even consider building to some epic, 30 minute title match like the men get. The best they can do is shoehorn them into the same lone title match spot that they always get. But this time, they'll get 15 minutes to work instead of 3.

What the finish of the women's match should remind everyone of is that while the women's revolution is getting there, it's still not quite...getting there. All of the stupid, illogical and lame stuff the Raw women have been doing lately has been waved away every time by one sentence: "It's because Charlotte/Bayley/Sasha/Nia is the Mania match." OK, why is that the Mania match? Because they want to get all the top Raw women on the card. OK...but why do they all have to be in the same match? Because women are still their own little segregated subset of the show and only get their designated 1 (one) 10 minute match per brand for Wrestlemania, a show that is 76 hours long. There are a bunch of men at the top of the Raw card (Roman, Braun, Owens, Jericho, Rollins, Brock, Goldberg) but they're not going to throw them all in one big multi-man match that makes no sense just to "get them on the card". Of course not, they're going to build to many different showcase singles matches and title matches that reflect storylines and the shows. But they can't do that for women. Women we can only spare one match for. So we get a whole bunch of convoluted nonsense that makes no sense (like the most pure babyface to ever step on God's green earth CHEATING to beat the hated heel and destroy her perfect record) just to get all four girls in a room together so they can book a four-way title match. Because it's either that, or not have someone as popular as Sasha on the card at all apparently. Those are the only avenues available for female Superstars.

I am so in love with Bayley's Arn Anderson out fit.

The Lobo match from 2001?

Cole, of all damn people, talking about how Gallagher isn't a high flier so Neville felt safe to go outside because he wouldn't get hit with any dives was amazing, only for Gallagher to bust out a DIVE later in his desperation to win. That was the first time any main roster cruiser stuff felt a little bit like the CWC.

Wrong thread. On Beth, they can play up that she's an X Time Women's Champion and was one of only two women in the Royal Rumble (plus she eliminated Great Khali). She also had the Glamazon look and Santino run that made her stand out from the pack of Divas Era girls, I guess. She's a strange choice but there's a career there.

The guillotine! Nia Jax's Kryptonite!

I so want Bryan and Shane to be dicks about it and see Randy and be like "What Wrestlemania match? You gave up your title shot remember? You said you didn't want to fight Bray. I mean, that was two weeks ago...we have a new No. 1 Contender, we've already moved on. Sorry pal. Good luck in the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal!" Too bad it will never happen. Shane will make AJ vs Orton, Orton wins through some nonsense, AJ blames Shane and I get to trololol through Wrestlemania again instead of caring.

The biggest carryjob of a broomstick I can think of off-hand is Cesaro vs Bo Dallas in NXT 2013. This was before Bo was even ironically enjoyable, and in the ring he was beyond useless, just a total plague on any match. Cesaro took one look at this shitty pile of dicks and said "Hold my beer." William Regal almost gives himself an orgasm-induced heart attack marveling at his performance on commentary.

This was a great listen, a great show in its own right as well as a fitting send off. The podcast world is now infinitely poorer.

I have zero problem with the overproduction or campyness or Kane-ness of the segment. My problem is more like that it made no fucking sense. During the thing Randy goes "...and it never was" and reveals that he was playing the long game. He didn't have a change of heart, he was playing Bray all along. So what was his cunning plan again? - Join Wyatt Family - Win Bray the tag team titles - Win Rumble for yourself and then when your target wins the title, immediately give up your guaranteed title shot against him - Burn down his lair, desecrate someone's grave - ??? - Profit Randy's plan was so insidious that now it has come to fruition, he leaves Bray wallowing away with the World Title on top of the world, while Randy exults with no title shot and no claim to fight Bray at Wrestlemania. But he got to blow shit up I guess. And Bray will have to wipe his tears tonight with the soft leather of his World Heavyweight Championship that as of this moment he doesn't have to defend against Orton because HE GAVE HIS SHOT AWAY. I mean, I know that next week they'll come up with some bullshit to put Randy back in the match, but that doesn't make it any better. Logically speaking Randy is a fuckwit.

I love lists! What a concept.

I can't remember specifics but I feel like almost assuredly yes. I can picture it, I remember it happening quite clearly, but honestly it could have been any battle royal on WWE TV in the past 12 years for all I know. So not very helpful, but again I think the answer is yes.