Jimmy Redman

I agree with this point generally speaking, but in terms of Angle/Benoit I do want to make the point that the Rumble came at the end of the SD Six period, which had been going on for months and featured an abundance of the kind of finisher killing, suplex trading and submission reversals found in this match. I get that it was still fresh because it was a WWE Title match on a big PPV and got lots of eyeballs and felt important, but at the same time it's not like nobody had seen the match before if they had been paying even a cursory glance at Smackdown since September.

Cheers man, I appreciate that. I just lost the motivation to write for a while there. NXT Season 1, Week 7 11th May 2010 from Buffalo, NY "Wild and Young", opening video, fireworks, etc. Wade Barrett & Chris Jericho vs Skip Sheffield & William Regal The English angle between Barrett and Regal is played up. Jericho cockily underestimates Skip and pays by eating power moves all over the place. Regal works as a kind of subtle face using maestro Regal holds and shit, before Barrett and Jericho briefly take over on him to set up Skip cleaning house with more power spots. After more back and forth, Regal is left with Barrett, and after a failed Skip save attempt, Barrett hits Wasteland on Regal. Everyone flips because this is the first time a Rookie has pinned a Pro. > Barrett pins Regal Wade Barrett 3-0 : Skip Sheffield 1-2 Backstage, Barrett and Jericho crow about their victory, especially the fact that Barrett pinned a WWE Superstar. Barrett talks about replacing Regal as the great English hope of the WWE. Jericho says Barrett is dominating and should be a shoo-in to be #1 in the Poll next week. Elsewhere, Punk is asked about his reaction to the head-shaving fiasco last week. Is he unhappy with Darren Young? "Who?" Punk asks. He ignores the questions until Miz comes up clearly wanting to talk, and then stares pointedly at the cameraman. "Do you mind? Go bother someone else," as he walks off with Punk. Various Rookies and their Pros are interviewed about the looming Rookie Ranking and where they think they'll rank in the Poll. Skip Sheffield jabbers in an overly optimistic way about coming 1st as Regal gently tries to remind him that he just lost. "And whose fault is that Mr. Regal?" Skip innocently asks and immediately regrets. Tarver cuts a promo about how everyone should recognise that he is the most dangerous man in NXT. Slater and Christian are happy with their performances so far, and are confident of a high placing should they win tonight, going 2-1 and making a good last impression. Otunga spouts off cockily about his chances, bragging about winning last week, before he is interrupted by R-Truth. Truth asks him why he was so late getting to the ring last week, and as Otunga starts to blow him off Truth flips out and cuts a promo on him, just putting him on blast for acting like such an arrogant douche having accomplished NOTHING yet in this business. Truth tells him if he wants to make it to WWE he needs to get his head out of his ass, treat him with some respect and start listening and learning, or else he'll end up as some D List nobody who couldn't hack it. "...and that's the truth!" Truth walks away and Otunga is stunned. A Daniel Bryan promo video airs. Backstage, Carlito is chatting away to Miz, then sees Bryan coming and excuses himself. Before Bryan can even get a word out Miz is cutting him off. "Really? Really?! No, don't even try it. I don't have time to worry about you. Next week, live on Monday Night Raw, I am going to end the career of that has-been Bret 'The Hitman' Hart once and for all. Then at Over the Limit, Chris Jericho and I will become the new Tag Team Champions. I have more important things to worry about than you and your stupid competition. Oh, this is your last chance to get a victory? Well boo hoo! You know what? It doesn't even matter anymore. This is all almost over. Next week you will be in the bottom two, you will be eliminated, and I never have to deal with you or this stupid show ever again. So let's just get this over with, shall we?" And he heads off to the ring. Daniel Bryan & The Miz vs Heath Slater & Christian Bryan and Miz, of course, don't get along in any way, bicker and refuse to tag in and out co operatively. Slater and Christian work well together and are clearly out to impress. Late in the match, Miz is battling Slater and both men are weary. Slater hits a desperation dropkick that sends Miz towards the ropes. Bryan tags himself back in, leading Miz to flip out, claiming he had everything under control. Bryan goes in and delivers some seated kicks to the chest of Slater while Miz retrieves his title belt from ringside, before jumping up on the apron and yelling at Bryan some more - "I am the United States Champion! I don't take orders from you! I am your Pro!" Bryan tries to turn back to the match but BAM, Miz nails him in the head with the belt. A shocked Slater makes the cover as a smirking Miz drops down and saunters off. > Slater pins Bryan Heath Slater 2-1 : Daniel Bryan 0-3 Post-match, Bryan eventually comes to and sees Miz walking back up the ramp taunting him, waving goodbye and making "oh and three" hand gestures. Next week on NXT, the very first Rookie Ranking! Find out where the rookies rank in the Pros Poll and who ends up in the bottom two, and see which rookie is the first to be eliminated from the competition.

Yeah I forgot to mention that, they tinkered with the names. Davey is Derek Billington, Eddie takes over as John Cahill. This after audibly introducing them as Cahill and Philbin before the match. I kind of want them to get picked up. They're already over in the NXT Arena for who they are, and working 5 minute WWE TV matches with the Ascension and shit will curb almost all of their bad habits. They'll be good fodder for the tag division.

I think the whole "watching shows from decades ago just because they're on telly" thing is true of every generation. I was born in the 90s and I still grew up watching the Brady Bunch, old Scooby Doo cartoons, Get Smart, the Golden Girls, 'Allo 'Allo, Blackadder, the Addams Family...a bunch of shows that were made years and sometimes decades before the late 90s. My favourite childhood movies were the original Star Wars trilogy and Airplane. Now with the explosion of the internet and what have you, it might become different in the future. But as goodhelmet said above, it's not about the age of the show itself, but about exposure to it. If you were exposed to older shows as a kid (and liked them of course), you watched them. Now with the myriad of choices available, I think exposure is just becoming more and more of a conscious choice. But that doesn't mean people won't be exposed, or expose themselves to things that aren't completely up-to-date. Five years from now, do you not think 'young people' will be watching the shit out of shows like the Sopranos, Seinfeld, The Wire, early Simpsons, etc.? They will be 10-20 years out of date by that point, but people will still watch them, if they are exposed to them and like them.

On another note, I'm watching NXT and they just announced that Regal vs Cesaro will be on next week. Mark your calendars boys.

In my own humble opinion of course (and short of seeing Will about the whole shebang, which is the best option), here's a top 10 off the top of my head... Angle vs Rey, Summerslam 2002 Angle vs Rey, Smackdown 12/9/02 (I like this better than SS) Edge vs Eddie G (No DQ), Smackdown 26/9/02 Benoit vs Rey, Smackdown 3/10/02 Angle & Benoit vs Los Guerreros, Smackdown 17/10/02 Edge & Rey vs Angle & Benoit, No Mercy 2002 Edge & Rey vs Los Guerreros, Smackdown 24/10/02 Edge & Rey vs Angle & Benoit (2/3 Falls), Smackdown 7/11/02 Rey vs Eddie G, Smackdown 14/11/02 Edge & Rey vs Angle & Benoit vs Los Guerreros (Elimination), Survivor Series 2002 If you want to include the auxiliary players from the period, there's also stuff like, Edge & Rey & Cena vs Angle & Eddie & Benoit, Smackdown 8/8/02 Angle & Benoit vs Billy & Chuck, Smackdown 19/9/02 (their first odd-couple tag) Angle & Benoit vs Kidman & Cena, Smackdown 10/10/02 (beginning of the title tourney, short but fun) Edge & Rey vs Brock& Tajiri, Smackdown 10/10/02 (also short, also fun) Los Guerreros vs Benoit & Kidman, Smackdown 12/12/02 There's other more famous stuff like the Angle/Edge/Eddie/Benoit four-way and Angle/Benoit at Unforgiven that I didn't really like as much as other stuff, but lots of other people do.

This is what I said about it last time I watched it, which is much of what tim says above:

God damn it...I'm going to have to watch it again, aren't I?

What was so great about the psychology of Angle-Benoit? I fact, what even was the psychology of Angle-Benoit? Apart from "two über workrate guys workrate the fuck out of each other." My memory of the match is that the psychology is non-existent. They just take turns doing moves, lots of moves. There's no story involved in any of it, and even the moves themselves werent that novel or interesting. they just did stuff. Going into my most recent viewing of it, I figured the overkill finisher-fest would piss me off the most. In fact, that was the best part of the match because at least it was exciting. Everything up until that point was just...doing moves, and not in a very interesting way. I get liking the match, and I especially get liking the match if you're into the Kurt Angle, go go go, let's do lots of MOVES style, and liking it for its athleticism. I do not get the claim that the match has excellent psychology.

So after a couple of months of...whatever that was with WWE booking, I am back on the horse ready to fix the joint. NXT Season 1, Week 6 4th May 2010 from Charlestown, SC "Wild and Young", opening video, fireworks, etc. Scott Stanford and Josh Mathews are ringside at the announce desk with an important announcement. Two weeks from tonight will be the night of the very first Rookie Ranking. Each Pro will rank the Rookies, excluding their own, from 1-7 based on their performances and potential. This Pros Poll will combine with the Rookies' win-loss records to create the Rookie Ranking, from which the bottom two will be placed into an elimination match where they will fight to remain in the competition. This means that all the Rookies only have one more chance to score another W and impress the other Pros before they are evaluated, making this next round of matches the most crucial yet. Backstage, Carlito and Michael Tarver watch this announcement with excitement. They are ecstatic about getting their first win last week, and as they start walking they jabber about getting another victory and riding a wave of momentum into the first Ranking. They reach gorilla and come face to face with the same poor crew guy Tarver has been tormenting. This time he steps aside nervously and lets them go to the ring for their scheduled match. Carlito reacts like it's a sign of things looking up for them after getting a win. Tarver still threatens the crew guy with his fist, and cackles when he flinches, but this time leaves him unscathed as they go through the curtain. Michael Tarver & Carlito vs Justin Gabriel & Matt Hardy Carlito and Tarver are cocky as shit and act a lot better than they are. Gabes and Matt are smooth and work babyface tag team spots. It doesn't take long before they dispatch the heels and finish with the big 450 splash. > Gabriel pins Tarver Justin Gabriel 2-1 : Michael Tarver 1-2 Backstage, CM Punk is with his group and looking pissed. (Alternate WWE Universe happenings: Last week on Smackdown, Rey Mysterio challenged CM Punk to a final blow off match, putting up anything Punk wants in return for Punk putting up his hair. While making the challenge Rey mentions that he got the inspiration for the stip from Darren Young asking Gallows why the SESers have to be bald when Punk doesn't all those weeks ago. The match is made with Punk demanding Rey put his mask up in return.) Punk is upset that Rey goaded him into putting up his hair, and that it was Darren that put the idea into his head. But Punk forgives him for his misguided comment as it was made before Punk saved him, and the SES are again frustrated that D Young dodges another bullet. Punk vows to show Rey Mysterio and the world the power of Straight Edge, and the power of cleansing one's sins by symbolically cutting one's hair off by giving Darren Young a proper induction into the SES by shaving his head in the middle of the ring, tonight, which catches D Young completely off guard. We see a series of interviews on the subject of Justin Gabriel and his team with Matt Hardy. They both praise the other and talk about how easy it is to work together. Matt Hardy compares Gabes to a young Matt Hardy, having the same daredevil style and desire to fly around and excite the fans. Talking heads like Christian note their chemistry as a tag team and predict that it will lead to lots of victories, which will give Gabes a great chance to go deep into the competition. Backstage, the camera picks up Carlito and Tarver looking pissed off, and once within earshot hears them bickering about losing again so quickly. Truth spies the camera and asks the cameraman if he has seen Otunga tonight. Truth can't find him, and they have a match tonight to go over. In the background we can see Miz and Jericho in conversation. (Alternate WWE Universe happenings: Since being traded to Raw, Miz has recruited Jericho to be his new tag team partner in his feud with the Hart Dynasty and Bret Hart. A Darren Young promo video airs. After it ends we are reminded that his head shaving is coming up after the break. Punk's music hits in the arena and he, the SES and Young all come to the ring. They go through the SES head-shaving ritual, asking Darren if he's ready to blah blah and sitting him in the chair, then Punk raves about Straight Edge and purity and blah blah, while D Young looks more and more nervous. They build to the moment where the clippers are whipped out, and milk it forever. Just before his hair is touched Darren leaps up and tries to stall, clearly reluctant to go through with it. Punk becomes more and more frustrated, and then angry when he realises Darren is backing out, but just as he begins to threaten Young, Truth's music hits and he runs down to make the save and get in Punk's face. We segue into their scheduled match even though Otunga is nowhere to be found. R-Truth & David Otunga vs Darren Young & CM Punk Punk is livid with Truth and they go at it from the bell. With no partner to help him, Truth falls victim to SES gang tactics. Minutes into the match Otunga saunters down without a care in the world to take his place on the apron. Truth eventually makes it to tag out, and Punk does the same soon after, his rage having passed. Otunga and Truth go at it with Young while Punk is back to looking completely uninterested on the apron. He doesnt even reach out a hand to tag when Young gets within reach, and while Darren puts up a fight, eventually he succumbs to whatever Otunga's finish is. > Otunga pins Young David Otunga 1-2 : Darren Young 2-1 Next week on NXT, the remaining four pairs, including Bryan & Miz, have their last opportunity to grab a win before the first Rookie Ranking.

In the end I think you're right, in that that period was the beginning of the overkill style that ruined his matches forever from that point on. But to me, the SD Six period is when it was kind of still new and exciting, so it worked. It want sustainable, sure, and Angle's inability to move past it is his major flaw. But in the moment, it was fun. I agree that the Rumble match is the tipping point. God I hate that match. And like I said I really enjoyed the Angle-Benoit tag team and storyline, so I really WANT to like it, but I can't, it's garbage.

I think that is largely the point. A professional wrestler should be able to throw a better dropkick than...me.

From my perspective the SD Six was probably Angle's peak. The Benoit tag team was a lot of fun, he was paired with guys like Eddie and Rey on a weekly basis, and working tag matches kind of neuters his worst instincts because he can go on a wild no-selling suplex rampage and call it a "hot tag", instead of "no selling". I really like that period and for me the matches still hold up after multiple viewings.

I care little about AJ Styles anymore in terms of his character, booking or the man's career. But still, the prospect of dropping him into the current WWE scene, awash with workrate, is still tempting to me. AJ working with Rey, Bryan, Sami, flopping around for Cesaro spots, having six mans with The Shield, bumping off of Henry...sounds good to me. Of course, if we're talking about it in a real life sense, in that he'd get signed tomorrow, get sent to NXT to get re-packaged, get a new name for people to whine about, and work on NXT for 6-12 months before even sniffing the main roster, I don't really care about that. It just feels too late for him. Shame, but there you go.

Jesus Christ this drives me nuts. I feel like saying it after every show and I always forget. It sounds so awful and yes, is just a lazy way to not have actual wrestlers do actual promos. Not to mention, he does this not only with imaginary promos, but actual ones as well. So if say Raw opens with Cena saying like "It doesn't matter what The Authority wants, what's 'best for business' is what the WWE Universe wants, and they want me to beat Randy Orton this Sunday at TLC to become the Unified WWE World Heavyweight Champion", then Cena will wrestle an hour later and Cole will say, "according to John Cena earlier today, he says that it doesn't matter what The Authority wants, what's 'best for business' is what the WWE Universe wants, and they want me to beat Randy Orton this Sunday at TLC to become the Unified WWE World Champion...those are the words of John Cena." He never paraphrases, always quotes an earlier promo entirely verbatim. Just another one of those annoying as fuck announcer ticks.

As someone who is 100% committed to Team Streak, I would be absolutely amazed if I could get around any idea anyone came up with for breaking it, other than the Cena heel turn.

I don't think anyone was delighted at Ohno's release. Thinking your idea was bad (no offense) had nothing to do with liking the guy or not.

I understand that you didn't like it and that's valid, and I also get you thinking that if you see a pattern of Cena buddying up to whoever is over. But i think taking this specific instance, on its own, Cena did a great job of using the crowd's reaction in a way that actually built his PPV match without damaging Bryan and got the crowd into a conversation that they were chanting "boring" at moments before. Even if he was using him, technically, that use was effective for the segment.

The thing about Cena being closer to Orton than Bryan may be true enough in real life, but isn't really true in kayfabe. In kayfabe Cena thinks of himself as a working man, he's a good guy who doesn't cheat or take shortcuts, and works harder than everyone else in the biz. Orton is the 2nd gen golden boy who was hand picked by Hunter and Steph to be their Corporate Champion and given all of the advantages of the Authority's backing. That is the narrative. Saying Cena is in the same privileged position is missing the point, because that's not how they are portrayed on TV. As an aside, I'd love to hear how Cena apparently leeched off The Rock for babyface heat. Cena heeled himself against the Rock at every opportunity.

How did he make selling the PPV harder? That segment coming off was the only thing they have done to get me, and from reading around a lot of other people too, actually interested in seeing the match. A hot go home segment is a winner. I get that you think he was pandering or wouldn't like it on a personal level, but I don't see any argument that Cena did a bad thing for the company or the PPV build.

He did sell the TLC match. He used Bryan's plight to contrast against Orton's position as the golden child who has been gifted the title reign by the Authority. Cena is going to make the world right by beating Orton for the belts, being a fighting champion and giving Bryan his rightful shot. I'd understand you if Cena had completely ignored what he was supposed to be doing to milk the Bryan thing, or if he had dismissed Bryan in an insincere way (like I said, the last time where he tried to say "they're chanting for Bryan because you're such a big bully heel Triple H, so lets get back to the topic at hand" was lame), but he didn't do either. He acknowledged Bryan in a way that put him over, AND still used it to further the existing story with Orton in a natural way. I mean, do you really think they weren't ready for that? They were clearly flustered by the crowd being SO loud and also by them ignoring the promos, but they're not stupid, they were in Seattle. They had Bryan in the ring. He was a key part of the closing brawl and clearly still part of the big picture. If they were chanting their heads off for, say, Jack Swagger, you think Cena would have promised him a title shot? Of course not. But Bryan is part of the angle. It made sense to incorporate him. The idea that Cena made himself look bad or turned people off by putting over the crowd favourite and getting a crowd that was chanting "boring" and shitting on a segment to become unglued and get them completely interested in what was going on is laughable.

How did he come off poorly? The crowd was shitting on the segment and he saved it. He took their real emotion for Bryan and used it, not to bury Bryan or gloss over it (which i can at least see from the last time he did it when it was "they're chanting for Daniel Bryan because HUNTOR~!") but to put him over, remind people he beat him clean for the belt, say he's the rightful #1 Contender, and bring it all back to the story he was telling about Orton being an undeserving champion. Which Cena will fix on Sunday by winning the belts. And then give Bryan a fair title match. He simultaneously gave the crowd what they wanted, put Bryan over huge and cut a promo on Orton for their PPV match. Everyone wins. What was he supposed to do? Ignore the chants like Hunter and Orton did? I mean I don't blame them, they're heels, but the crowd was killing the segment because they weren't interested. Cena got them interested. In terms of the PPV match, they're not going to be like that. I'm not debating about how over Bryan is, but they were in Seattle. They won't be at TLC. They'll be having a TLC match for the unified world titles. Cena is THE main event worker of his generation. He and Orton have good in-ring chemistry. Even if the crowd gets bored or chants for Bryan, they will be able to turn it around, and people will pop for the finish (as long as its a real finish and not bullshit).

Yes, and I think a factor in a lot of newer guys' finishers not being over like they used to is because they never seem to hit them, or beat anyone with them. The showcase aspect you get squashing a jobber is lost. So you get worst case scenarios like Dolph Ziggler, a guy who has a bunch of signature moves that he NEVER hits the first time, only ever seems to hit them as desperation counters, and that are always kicked out of, before he loses. In kayfabe tha guy is completely ineffective. I'm using extreme examples, but then look at Ryback, who had the squash matches for months to establish his movement, kill people with it, and win. So much so that within six months of debuting the character he drew an actual buyrate, because people actually believed he could end Punk's record setting reign while they were building him up for The Rock. I don't think anyone is suggesting to go back to an 80s format with lots of squashes overnight. But you can EASILY do like one squash per show. And when Ryback moves onto competitive matches, you bring up Big E and give him a few months squashing guys, then when he moves on, you bring up The Ascension and have some tag squashes, and so on.

Even if the hours of TV are roughly the same compared to however many years ago, I think at the moment it just feels like too much and too repetitive because there's no brand split anymore. Smackdown, up until they completely abandoned the split, wasn't always the most important show, but it was a different show with a largely different crew of guys and emphasis on different feuds and the World Title instead. Now there's no split, the exact same crew can work the exact same matches on Raw, Main Event, Smackdown, Superstars. In fact this trend began about a year or so ago with the addition of Main Event and ending the split rosters, when you have things like a match happening three times in the space of a week or so, because they did it on Smackdown, then Raw, then Main Event... There was a point I think last year when I actually tried to research the prevalence of rematches within a given week or month of TV, the results were pretty damning, and I think its worse now than it was then. Even if you look at the shows pre-brand split, even if you have the same crew working Raw and SD, Heat and all the other auxiliary shows were different, filled largely with the jobber crews. Now, there's a lot more blurring of the lines between the A, B and C shows. You won't see top guys working ME or Superstars, but pretty much anyone below that level can work with anyone else below that level on those two shows, or Smackdown, or on Raw for that matter. And they do, hence the endless rematches. And on the point of comparison to other periods of time, "having a brand split" was definitely one way in which WWE worked to overcome having too many hours. And it worked, in my opinion, to that end. I think we're seeing that now since it was abandoned.

WWE now produces eight hours of first-run TV a week: Raw, Smackdown, Main Event, NXT and Superstars. I think everyone agrees that it is too much and causes a lot of problems for the product like overexposure of stars, constant rematches and guys doing far too many jobs. But in the current era and the setup of WWE's business being based on TV rights fees (looming Network aside), this structure is inevitable. My question is, from a creative and booking standpoint, what can be done about it? If you're Vince, short of cancelling half of your TV shows, how do you address the problems that too much TV causes? How do you fill the hours in a way that maximises interest and protects the wrestlers? Try to move back to a more squash/non star vs star format? Fill time with more non-match segments? Try to use stars more sparingly on a weekly basis? Expand the roster to avoid the same match-ups? Wrestler off-seasons?