Jimmy Redman

If you can find matches for the end of October, maybe start now with the match of whatever date it is today and work forward? Then you have two months to find matches for the tricky holiday/New Year period. I'm interested to know if you can get a run going of even a week or so of genuinely great matches.

Can you blame the crowd for that match? No. No no no. When it comes to the chicken/egg stuff on the shitty match/the crowd shitting on it, in this case I am firmly of the opinion that the match sucked first. You cannot understate how many fucks were not given by both guys, and when the crowd began to turn on them, they not only didn't try to salvage the match, they made it WORSE. I went off on it about six months ago:

I'm sure you can easily find better ones with some digging, but here a couple of good NYD matches from WWE: Rey vs Tajiri, SD 1/1/04 Cena vs K-Fed, Raw 1/1/07 Miz/Morrison vs Yang/Moore, ECW 1/1/08 Jericho vs Rey, SD 1/1/10 (Beat the Clock) Actually, how do you want to handle taping date vs airdate?

I like your list, although I found the Foley self interview (along with most of Foley in TNA) to be him at his most self-serving and excruciating.

He actually did turn into a pretty decent promo in TNA.

Bobby Lashley was terrible in the ring. Promos were a big problem for him, but they weren't the only one. He's more of a guy who falls under "If only he could talk, work, act, get over or be a pro wrestler in any way".

I went through a few of the Weekly PPVs searching for the early AMW/XXX feud (basically all of their matches are good too, by the way), and it was interesting in a morbid kind of way. I was actually pretty horrified at how many times I hesitated before skipping over the next Glen Gilberti promo or Mike Sanders match. If I had the time to devote to it I wouldn't rule out going through the Weekly PPVs. Although I would never recommend the idea to someone who has already been as mentally traumatised by Russo as El-P has. Speaking of Backlund though, I amend my statement to say that the PCS series of skits with Nash and the X Division were the only worthwhile out of the ring stuff TNA ever did.

Also Aries/Joe from Slammiversary 2012 and Aries/Bully at Sacrifice 2012, which are my favourite TNA matches of the last couple years by leaps and bounds, along with the Gail/Taryns. I can't see it on the list, but AMW vs Team Canada from Final Resolution 2005 is an excellent tag match. There have been a lot of good TNA matches over the years, plenty enough for a comp. In fact, if anything, in-ring would be TNA's best attribute, since you can cherry pick a bunch of good matches and largely ignore the shitty booking that surrounded them. I think the much harder prospect is finding good out of the ring stuff for a theoretical TNA Yearbook/extras deal. Aside from Steiner math promos, TNA don't really produce ANYTHING worthwhile out of the ring, and the booking has always been atrocious.

Co-signed. Dustin fans (all of you) will enjoy the extent to which he strung out the hot tag.

I love that Smackdown Chamber so much. Drew Mac was so beastly in it. I also remember Rey Mysterio throwing his head into various solid surfaces way too hard for our entertainment as well.

Yeah, and the second match was definitely hurt by them avoiding physical contact, not to mention having less heat than before and working a face vs face "respect" angle that nobody wanted to see.

Where do women fit into that scale?

I think to some extent the reaction online to the Cena/Rock promos was a lot of people who were Rock/Attitude Era fans struggling to find a reason or excuse as to why Cena out-promod the supposed "best promo ever" during the build. "Cena went into business for himself" or "Vince is still mad at Rock and undermining him" or "Rock was deliberately stumbling over his lines to make Cena look better" kind of stuff. I saw it every week and it was kind of bemusing the things people would believe just to avoid saying the words "Cena was better in that promo than The Rock." There was no legit heat. They believably sold that there was legit heat by the way they worked. That's just good work. Cena and/or Vince didn't go into business for themselves. Cena and Rock both knew they were cutting personal promos on each other whether individual lines were scripted or not. Rock didn't deliberately sabotage his own promos in an effort to make Cena look like a competent promo. Cena always gives great promos when he's taken off the leash, and he never had more freedom to go nuts than here since his heel days.

Sorry for the massive dump, here are links to C Show and other random stuff for your perusal: Chris Masters vs Drew McIntyre - Smackdown 11th February My favourite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgiDwvE6ey4 Drew McIntyre vs Evan Bourne - Superstars 19th May 2011 I thought this was borderline, but having rewatched it now it is AWESOME and a slam dunk recommendation. Bourne flips and bumps like a nut and Drew is vicious as fuck cutting him off and killing him. (starts around 6:00 in) Usos & Trent vs Kidd, Gabriel & Slater - Superstars 11th June Good shit from everyone involved and featuring an insane highspot that made people shit themselves. Rey & Riley vs Miz & Swagger (Tornado Tag) - Raw 27th June A really fun, fairly balls-out sprint for a Raw match. The finishing stretch is awesome. Natalya vs Alicia Fox - Superstars 7th July Hilarious hair work. Chris Masters vs Jack Swagger - Superstars 1st August Masters' "Fuck all y'all" parting shot since he was endeavoured by the end of the week. Masters rules of course, and this was just a really well worked match. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr8SAqhlTSI Tyson Kidd vs Trent Barreta - NXT 23rd August They had about ten thousand matches in '11 and all of them were really good. This may be the pick of the bunch, although it has a different dynamic from the others since they are in Canada and Tyson plays face. Randy Orton vs Ted DiBiase - Smackdown 26th August I loved Orton in '11, and I really loved this out of nowhere as a nice little ace vs midcarder match. It's probably the best singles match Ted ever had. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler - Smackdown 28th October To me this was the pick of all their matches. The superkick nearfall sent me airborne when I saw it live. Drew McIntyre vs John Morrison - Superstars 3rd November Drew was awesome in '11, he was great here, Morrison holds up his end with nutty spots, mixed in with some hard shots. Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes (Street Fight) - Smackdown 4th November To me the great thing about this is that they build this nasty, hateful brawl of a Street Fight without using any weapons. Like, at all. And another match where Orton makes a midcarder look like a million bucks. Sheamus & Zack vs Dolph & Swagger - Smackdown 25th November One to go alongside the AirBoom match and the tornado tag as the best tag of the year. Really simple but really well done. Randy Orton vs David Otunga (Miracle on 34th Street Fight) - Smackdown 29th November The precursor to the Cena/Alberto Christmas romp, and I like this even better. Orton looked like he was having a ball throwing gift boxes and Christmas trees around, and Otunga has never even come within light years of being this entertaining before or since.

It's one of those phrases that people say without thinking about, because even if you accept the premise that Hunter was stealing the show on the undercard (bear with me), can he or anyone else explain how that made the main eventers "step up their game"? Did they? Did main events suddenly get noticeably better after the summer of 1998? And if they did, shouldn't the fact that Rock moved from the undercard to main event matches at the same time mean it was Rock making the difference there?

Yes, and similarly, Foley/Orton was for the title too right? For post-2001 I'd say those two for sure. Also, Rey vs Morrison, SD 4/9/09 Edge vs Orton, Vengeance 2004.

Even if you want to credit all of the Tana/Okada matches (and I certainly wouldn't, but for argument's sake) I still think that Cena and Punk have had more high quality matches together at this point. Depending on when "this era" began, there's also Eddie and Rey having a trizillion great matches together in the 2002-05 period. And that is only thinking about it in a prolific sense. If we're purely talking having the very best matches of the period (whatever it is) then we could all go to town really.

Oh shit the Henry/Sheamus matches, yes.

You've covered most of the essentials WWE-wise. I'd only add a general note to check out anything and everything Rey Mysterio did between about Capitol Punishment and his injury, it was a two month or so run that blew me away, even by Rey standards, where he was working at a rate better than one great match per week. Which is a lot more impressive than it sounds now since it was before everybody could work Raw, SD and Main Event in a given week. The Tornado tag with Riley is I would say the biggest missing one from your list. Also, as a completely left-field pick, Natalya vs Alicia Fox from Superstars 7th July, which is a lot of fun. If you like the versions of the matches you have up there, there's also Henry vs Show at Survivor Series, and the first Henry vs Bryan match on SD 4th November. Also every Orton vs Christian.

I suppose it depends on the doco itself too, it may come off as less weird watching it as they want to cover other stuff instead and it just gets skipped over instead of glossed over. But still, knowing the history there, it's pretty something.

Cena vs Khali is an often used example. Cena vs Lashley is an even better example. The best 'broomstick' match of the modern era I can think of.

It's an aspect of Hunter that has been run into the ground already, but this is still the most WOW part of the whole thing to me. I mean, give Foley credit for it or not, but how do you not even mention what would be the best work of your own career just to avoid even the possibility of saying something halfway decent about him? Hunter was great in it too, they could have easily heaped praise on him alone for it, rather than bypass it entirely. It's just so weird that even Hunter could be THAT petty.

We're certainly in the minority but I liked it a good bit also. Since the crowd was dead after Undertaker/HBK, the fact that the match had little heat is typically held against it. What crippled the match was the terrible stipulation that HHH (who was the CHAMP - and the face here) could lose the title via DQ. So you have this blood feud where families are involved and the story they tell (and the announcers have to harp on) is that HHH has to restrain himself so he doesn't lose the title via disqualification. Horrible. BUT for what they shoehorned themselves into, I thought the actual wrestling was really good and liked what they did a lot. Like ***1/2 and by far not one of the worst Mania main events like its often categorized. Really? I thought the actual wrestling was atrocious, with both guys hitting their (super protected) finishers in the opening minute in a misguided attempt to get the crowd hot, and then having literally nowhere to go from there. The stipulation was debilitating, as was the result (Orton should have won, but they wanted the happy ending for the 25th anniversary), but I don't think what they did in the ring helped either. There are other examples in recent years of guys having to follow the Undertaker match who actually went in with a sound gameplan, built a match with patience and succeeded in getting the crowd into them by the end. Edge/Cena/Show, Edge/Jericho and Punk/Jericho being examples. Even Orton/HHH/Cena, which went on soon after Flair's retirement.

I was really underwhelmed by that when I watched it too, I thought I was the only one. The good news is that it is the worst part of their feud, from vague memory all the Best of 5 matches are good, and the 2/3 Falls final is excellent.

Nowhere NEAR an early 90's WWE audience. The modern product you hear PLENTY of adults, all of the time. "Cena Sucks..." being the obvious rebuttal to your own suggestion. Yeah I don't think I read your initial post properly, missing the "mostly children" bit. I just meant that you can definitely still hear the kiddies these days. They love Cena, love the Hardyz, love Hornswoggle, etc. There was a moment on NXT this week when Hunter was rattling off names of NXT stars to various levels of the usual cheers and boos, and then he said "Corey Graves" to a resounding chorus of female squealing and nothing else. I find Graves to be astonishingly average, but when he makes the main roster he's going to be a big hit with women.