Jimmy Redman

My fantasy booking is basically along the same lines. I think I put it in one of the Armchair Booking threads. I'm desperate for Bryan/Lesnar, but I realise it's a long shot and I'm not unhappy with most of the other options.

Rollins' improvement isn't just in terms of having better match layouts, but the vast improvement in his character work, presence and promos as well. Going from being a bland ROHbot who couldn't talk to the fantastic prissy little shit he is in The Shield: inciting Undertaker to anger, screeching from the apron, mocking opponents' moves...it's like night and day.

NXT Season 1, Week 8 18th May 2010 from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada "Wild and Young", opening video, fireworks, etc. The eight Rookies are all lined up in the ring in their street clothes. Their Pros are all sitting in chairs up on the stage. Scott Stanford is in the ring acting as MC. "Hello and welcome everybody to the very first Rookie Ranking of the inaugural season of NXT. Right now we will decide the fate of these Rookies: who is safe in the competition, and who is up for elimination. Before the show went on the air tonight all the WWE Pros ranked the Rookies - except for their own - based on their performance so far in the competition and their potential as WWE Superstars. These polls have been combined to give us the order of the overall Pros Poll. 1st place in the Pros Poll will receive 8 points, 2nd place 7 points, and so on, with 8th place receiving 1 point." Stanford has to pause here as the Canadian crowd is aiming a particularly loud chant of "YOU TAPPED OUT" at The Miz, who submitted the previous night on Raw to Bret Hart's Sharpshooter. (Alternate WWE Universe alteration: Miz's US Title wasn't on the line in the match, he still has it.) Miz is not happy about this. Eventually they die down and Stanford continues. "In addition to the points received from the Pros Poll, Rookies will also receive a point for every win they have earned in the competition thus far. This combined score will determine the final standings of the Rookie Ranking. Unfortunately, the two Rookies who end up in the bottom two will be in danger of elimination from NXT. Tonight in our main event, these two men will face off in singles competition. No tag team partner, no WWE Pro to help them, in fact the Pros will not even be allowed at ringside. The winner of this match will remain in the competition, and the loser will be eliminated from NXT and no longer have the chance to be the WWE's next breakout star. So without further ado, here are the results of the Pros Poll." Graphics pop up on the titantron revealing the information as Stanford reads it out. "In eighth place, receiving 1 point from the Pros Poll...Michael Tarver. In seventh place, receiving 2 points from the Pros Poll...Darren Young. In sixth place, receiving 3 points......Daniel Bryan. In fifth place, receiving 4 points from the Pros...Skip Sheffield. Now we enter the top half of the board...in fourth place, receiving 5 points from the Pros Poll...David Otunga. In third place, and receiving 6 points from the Pros Poll...Heath Slater. Now this is it gentlemen, in second place, receiving 7 points...is Justin Gabriel, which means in first place, receiving the all-important 8 Pros Poll points, Wade Barrett." Barrett is jubilant, as is Jericho on the ramp. Stanford congratulates him and asks for his thoughts, and Barrett cuts a short promo about being the "bloody obvious choice" and vows to continue to dominate NXT. Stanford moves on to the win-loss part of the ranking. On the titantron we see the Rookies' wins being added onto their points: Barrett 8 + 3 = 11 Gabriel 7 + 2 = 9 Slater 6 + 2 = 8 Otunga 5 + 1 = 6 Sheffield 4 + 1 = 5 Bryan 3 + 0 = 3 Young 2 + 2 = 4 - graphic leaps Young ahead of Bryan in the list - Tarver 1 + 1 = 2 "And there you have it folks, the final order of the first Rookie Ranking. Wade Barrett, Justin Gabriel, Heath Slater, David Otunga, Skip Sheffield and Darren Young, congratulations, you are all safe in the competition. Unfortunately for you two fellas, Daniel Bryan in 7th place, and Michael Tarver in 8th, you are now in danger of being eliminated." Stanford interviews Tarver first who cuts an angry promo about everyone trying to get rid of him because they're scared of him. Bryan says he had hoped that the Pros would overlook his record and judge him on his individual performances in the ring, but he can't really complain that he's here considering he is yet to win a match. Stanford repeats that they will fight tonight in an elimination match, and gets them to shake hands and face off. Back from commercials, we are backstage for the fallout from the Ranking. First Matt Hardy is interviewed and says he's happy with Gabriel's placement. "Of course the goal is #1, and Justin had a good shot at it, but I guess uh, Wade Barrett being undefeated, and pinning William Regal last week, it was hard to go past him." Matt is asked if he voted Barrett in first place and replies in the affirmative. He also mentions his surprise at how low Bryan finished in the Poll, considering Matt himself had him third, saying he has obvious ability and is handicapped by having The Miz as a partner. At this point Christian walks past and is asked to join the conversation. He is asked his thoughts on Slater's rank, and says he is happy, having aimed for a top four finish. "Hey man, where did you put Bryan in your poll?" Matt asks, and Christian reveals he also had him at third. Christian agrees that it is weird, before he spots Truth out of the shot and beckons him over. "Whats up dawg? Bryan? Yo I had Bryan, uh, right in the middle, fourth place." At this the three babyfaces are stumped and try to work out the math. "How did he end up third last if we all had him in the top four?" The cameraman offers to them that he was given copies of all the ballots, and pulls out his tablet to show the guys. They discover that all of the other Pros voted Bryan in 7th place and are even more confused. "Dead last, on all of them. How is that even possible? The kid's a natural!" The cameraman reluctantly pipes up again and mentions that last week while doing backstage interviews he kept finding The Miz in secretive conversations with other Pros like Jericho, Punk, Carlito... The three wrestlers consider this information and slowly become incredulous. "Did The Miz...fix the Pros Poll?" For a moment the babyfaces ponder the dickishness. "What did he do, pay them off!?" They talk about the fact that when WWE gave them their NXT assignments, they were told to treat the competition extremely seriously and work as hard as they could for their Rookies. "And he goes and does this!" Eventually they wonder whether they should tell Bryan, or tell someone, and start to go...somewhere, with the camera following behind. Suddenly Truth sees Miz down a hallway and the three men go to confront him. They accuse Miz and he doesn't even bother to deny it, just silently smirks in a way that plainly answers their question. The faces are aghast and Miz asks them why they even care when Bryan isn't any of their Rookies. They start to say that that isn't the point of NXT but Miz just mocks them with the Annoying Miz Voice, which gets Truth mad enough to shove Miz and try to start a fight that the other two have to break up, saying "he's not even worth it Truth," as they leave the vicinity. The camera stays with Miz and he is asked again if he had the vote rigged. Miz is all "How could I possibly know why someone voted the way they did?" in the most douchiest way possible. He confidently predicts that Bryan will be eliminated tonight, and then on Sunday, he and Jericho will win the Tag Team Titles from the Hart Dynasty and stick it to "that cheating old has been" Bret Hart. Back from the break, we are alone with R-Truth, who is still mad at The Miz. The cameraman steers him from away from that and towards Otunga's performance in the Ranking. Truth begins to talk about fourth place as being a good showing and something to build on but Otunga walks up and interrupts. "What R-Truth means to say is that he is in disbelief, that the WWE Superstars would vote David Otunga as low as fourth place. I on the A List, I have the body of an Adonis, and I have far more superstar potential than anyone else on NXT. I mean, I get it. Obviously the Pros are jealous of me. Jealous of my talent, of my good looks, of my Hollywood lifestyle, of my beautiful Oscar-winning wife. I am on a level above everyone else here, whether they're Rookies or Pros, but they shouldn't l-" "You above everyone here?" Truth interrupts. "You think you're better than everyone here? Better than me?" This sets Truth off on another rant about Otunga acting above everyone, and how he shouldn't expect the Pros to show him respect when he constantly disrespects them and the business. Otunga remains unmoved. "Like I said. They're jealous." Otunga arrogantly walks away, and the camera follows his retreat only to spot Chris Jericho nearby. He is congratulated on Barrett finishing first, and Jericho reiterates that it was an obvious decision. Jericho talks about how Barrett reminds him of himself: ambitious, calculating, doing whatever it takes to win. He segues into talking about his match with Miz for the Tag Team Titles at the PPV. "Speaking of The Miz, can you confirm or deny the allegation that The Miz uh, well, bribed or asked you to vote Daniel Bryan last in your Pros Poll?" Jericho casually dodges in a similarly transparent fashion, giving us the trademark Jericho smirk as he saunters off. A promo video airs featuring interviews from Tarver and Bryan, talking about what it means to stay in the competition and compete on NXT. Carlito is seen emerging from a locker room and the cameraman approaches. "No you can't talk to Michael Tarver, he's preparing for his match, don't bother him, you can talk to Carlito." Carlito is asked the same question about whether The Miz got him to vote Daniel Bryan in last place. "See, this is what we're talking about. No respect! You come to Carlito and you ask Carlito about Daniel Bryan? Who cares about Daniel Bryan?! Why aren't you asking Carlito about Michael Tarver?!" Carlito goes on to hype up Tarver and his chances tonight. "He's going to beat Daniel Bryan tonight, and then we never have to talk about Daniel Bryan ever again. And that...that's cool." A promo video for Over the Limit airs. The cameraman knocks on an open locker room door and Daniel Bryan is stretching and warming up inside. After a routine question about how he's feeling before the elimination match, Bryan is asked if he's aware of what has been happening backstage all night, which he clearly isn't. The cameraman then explains to Bryan how the babyfaces were looking into the Pros Poll results, "long story short, it appears as though The Miz may have...well, conspired with some of the other Pros to vote you last in the Poll, to make sure you were in the bottom two." "He what?" Bryan chuckles. "Wow, and I really thought he liked me!" Bryan is asked if he's not angry about it, but he replies that he can't worry about it now. "The Miz can rig the Pros Poll, he can sabotage all of our tag team matches, he can do whatever he wants, but what The Miz is forgetting is that to be eliminated from NXT, you need to lose an elimination match. And I am not going to lose. I am going to go out there, by myself, without the Miz bringing me down, and do what I do better than everyone else - wrestle - and I am going to win, and there's nothing The Miz can do about that. I am going to win NXT, with or without The Miz's help." Elimination Match: Daniel Bryan vs Michael Tarver Both guys come out to their Pros' entrance music, but their Pros do not accompany them. Bryan appears to relish the chance to wrestle without having to worry about the Miz, and goes to town on Tarver for a good while with some tricked out matwork and assorted Bryan offense. Eventually Bryan crashes and burns in the corner and Tarver takes over using a lot of shots to the body and so forth. Bryan fires up and makes a comeback, and ultimately after some back and forth he grabs Tarver's arm and takes him down into a crossface-like maneuver: The LeBell Lock. Tarver immediately taps out and the announcers are impressed with Bryan's seemingly devastating new submission hold. > Bryan submits Tarver Daniel Bryan 1-3 (all matches count towards your record) : Michael Tarver is eliminated Next week on NXT, the remaining seven Rookies look to add to their records before the next Rookie Ranking.

I don't think things like the Heyman feud were about him not caring. If anything, he cared too much. To me the Heyman feud came off like two guys who like each other a lot, want to make each other look really good, and are given all the time and freedom in the world to cut their own long promos to build the feud. And it was just...too much freedom. Too much mutual respect. Because Heyman cut interminable promos that never ended about nothing. Punk cut the same fired up "I won't rest until I kill Paul Heyman" promo every week for months. They had all these long, drawn out conversations and long, drawn out beat downs and segments. And so many 'Punk stares at Heyman who is terrified because Punk will FINALLY get his hands on Paul Heyman and we are milking and milking and milking and oh Punk is cut off' moments that it became ridiculous. It was just too much, too...masturbatory.

Backlund in 1994 (45 yrs old).

I understand that, but again, it's really not any less likely to happen than Cena turning heel and Bryan becoming the #1 babyface. The only difference is that we want those things to happen, while nobody wants to see Cena/Hunter. But Cena has already begun to be positioned as the top babyface speaking out against Orton, it will only take Cena turning towards Hunter and Steph instead to make that feud happen. Again, I don't want it to happen, and I don't think it is as likely as other things, but it is a possibility. Same as Cena turning heel is a possibility, but a remote one for all the obvious reasons.

I don't think Cena/Hunter is likely, although it is possible since they are both there and none of the Mania matches are set yet. Hunter seems destined to wrestle someone on the babyface side, and the only options are Bryan, Punk or Cena. My point was that Cena/Hunter definitely isn't any more unlikely than the mythical CENA HEEL TURN~! white whale. Especially when you're calling people "insane" for suggesting otherwise.

And a Cena heel turn and Bryan becoming the #1 babyface isn't overly optimistic?

So anyway back to the topic, I've been watching the rest of the Angle-Benoit series. 24th October was pretty much a sprint version of their match. The opening rolling around lasted maybe a minute, the "heat" lasted maybe two, and then they went into the finishing stretch. I doubt the whole thing went 10 minutes, but of course they still found the time to hit a million Germans, including the flipping one. They worked Angle's top rope leap into the match in a better way here, since Angle ate the flipping German and then stayed down for Benoit's headbutt to create a solid nearfall, and then later on Benoit merely cuts him off with a forearm smash and tries to go up again. but Angle recovers and runs up. They also work in the foot-on-the-ropes bit from Unforgiven into this too, which was cool. 19th December was worked more like a traditional WWE match, starting off with headlocks and what have you and working a longer, more typical heat section. Angle had just turned heel(er) so at least it made sense for him to get heat on Benoit. I liked how Benoit rolled out of the Angle Slam to start his comeback, but there was a ridiculous German suplex exchange in this that I'm not sure whether I liked or hated, with Benoit hitting nine unanswered Germans, with two interruptions. At least Angle didn't pop up from them. Now, the Rumble. It's still worth noting that whatever picture you have in your mind of what the first 5 minutes of a long Angle/Benoit match would look like...this isn't it. Punch, stomp, chop, punch, stomp. I'm not even saying that is a bad thing, but it is certainly a thing. This isn't the kind of thing I say often, but if you put the first half of Unforgiven onto the second half of the Rumble, you'd have a hell of a match. The other thing I want to say about the beginning is that there is zero drama concerning the Sharpshooter. Benoit tried to put it on once, Angle made the ropes, not acting any more concerned than if it was any other mat wrestling move (whoever claimed that he was showing fear of it is crazy), then a minute or so later, Benoit puts the Sharpshooter on, Angle struggles and makes it to the ropes. The end. It meant nothing to the match and it wasn't compelling or even drawn out much for drama. It just...happened. I said there was no heat in my last review, and what I meant was that even if Angle was technically on offense for a certain amount of time without much reprieve, that doesn't necessarily make it feel like an actual heat segment. Seeing it now, it actually went on a bit longer than I remembered, but it was still just "Angle lays in a body scissors for a few minutes and does nothing" before Benoit makes his comeback (from what?) and to me that isn't really a heat segment. It came off more like a couple of restholds. Everything after that, starting with Benoit's comeback, was pretty cool though. Like I said before, the second half of the match is at least exciting and world's better than the beginning. I know when I type this aloud I'm going to read how ridiculous it sounds, but there's some small comfort in seeing German suplex exchanges where the guys reverse after eating one suplex, instead of taking two or three and then somehow having the strength to reverse and hit two or three of their own. At least with just one you can sort of buy into the idea of "Ouch that hurt, I better reverse him NOW to make sure I don't eat any more of those." I still find arguments that go like "but at the time, we'd never seen the crossface reversed into the Ankle Lock and back again before!" to be utterly ridiculous given the last four months of Smackdown and the last three singles matches they had. But I understand that it was exciting. Benoit hitting the huge headbutt was a nice moment, but was also not milked nearly as much as I was expecting. Was this the first time Angle had used the grapevine finish? Because I did like that in a "I have to come up with something completely new to put away this unprecedented threat" way, and also in a logic sense because Benoit kept trying to kick his way out of the Ankle Lock. I didn't dislike the Rumble as much as I did last time. I think that's the way it goes with a controversial match, at least for me. Watch it one time, see the flaws. Watch it the next time with negative thoughts about it, get pleasantly surprised by the positives. Watch it again with positive thoughts, and then notice all of those flaws again. And so on. I still don't think it's all that great a match, really. The first half meanders and isn't all that compelling. The second half is fun in an Angle, overkill way, which I can enjoy to a certain extent but also isn't particularly my kind of wrestling. Still don't see the argument for it being a psychological masterpiece. In the end the point I would like to make is that there are PLENTY of great SD Six era matches that hold up very well, even if I don't think Angle/Benoit is one of them.

I really liked his AJ match and his match with Joe. He did a lot of stuff with Ace's that occupied his whole year and kept him out of singles. Yeah. The only ones I remember clearly were the cage match with Anderson in January (which was a piece of shit) and AJ at Slammiversary (which I found painfully mediocre, but moreso because of Emo AJ than anything Angle did). I'm sure I watched the Joe match but I can't remember anything about it.

Shit, what would even be the pimped Angle matches of 2013? I can't really find much outside of the AJ and Roode matches. Is there more that nobody has been watching or has he not been very active/good this year? Man, I worry about how easily I am goaded into watching Angle matches.

Why exactly would that even matter? I don't need to have seen that many 2013 Angle matches (think I saw maybe two or three for the record) to know what I think about Angle's work from 2002-03, and I don't think a comprehensive knowledge of Angle's 2013 work is really all that crucial to understanding or criticising his career on the whole. I've seen enough Angle in my lifetime to know what I think of his matches and his strengths and weaknesses as a worker. Well, Kane had a damn good 2012 that I wouldn't have believed if I didn't see it. I'm still not even sure if I believe it. 1993 Ozaki was really good. 2013 Ozaki was a contender for the worst wrestler of the year. On the other hand, we had wrestlers in the past like Ray Stevens who were supposed to be superworkers, but we can't see the footage from his peak years to ever know. I grant you that (although in this case, I'm pretty sure if Kurt Angle, of all people, had some crazy good year of matches, someone would have said something, and I haven't heard anything in that area) but at the same time, by this point in Angle's career, I don't think one really strong year is going to remarkably change my overall perception of him. There are 13 other years of his career that I've watched and torn my hair out over. Being able to add "hey, he had a pretty good 2013 though" to the end of it doesn't really change or negate what I see as his flaws as a worker, which span his entire career as a whole. I'm with you on actually watching the footage, by all means, but at the same time, I don't think taking only a cursory glance at one year of a 14 year career means one can't form valid opinions about that career.

Why exactly would that even matter? I don't need to have seen that many 2013 Angle matches (think I saw maybe two or three for the record) to know what I think about Angle's work from 2002-03, and I don't think a comprehensive knowledge of Angle's 2013 work is really all that crucial to understanding or criticising his career on the whole. I've seen enough Angle in my lifetime to know what I think of his matches and his strengths and weaknesses as a worker.

Literally nobody in this thread.

That era of SD had more than 6 guys. As I mentioned, I always considered Brock the real sixth guy. Show was also good, A-Train was having his best matches of his career at that point, Matt Hardy was entertaining with the 2.0 stuff plus we got the goods from Tajiri and others. Take out the Mr. America and Dawn Marie stuff and it would have been even better. I'm not saying that there weren't others involved, but to a lesser degree. The three SD Six teams were all feuding with each other at the time, which meant their matches were pretty much always with each other in some form. If you look at matches from the time, it's usually SD Six guy(s) vs SD Six guy(s), especially during that October-November tag title period. Of course there are others involved peripherally like Brock, Show, Train, Tajiri, Kidman, Cena, Matt. But those guys had maybe a couple of matches with the relevant guys, and were otherwise doing their own thing - Brock vs Taker then Show, Tajiri and co. in the cruiser division, Cena becoming rapper Cena, etc. Not that they weren't also having good matches at the time, but they were often separate from the "SD Six" guys as they've come to be known. With 2013, it's hard to nail down who exactly the "guys" would be, and even if you did, you're still talking about matches involving a wide range of guys. For the easiest example, off the top of my head the Shield have had multiple matches with Cena, Bryan, Kane, Ryback, Sheamus, Orton, Kofi, the Usos, Christian, Henry, Show, Dolph, PTP, Cody, Goldust, Rey, Punk. Not even including guys who may have had a random match with them at some point. Ad then do that for everyone in the conversation like Bryan, Cesaro, and so on. Once you look into it you're looking at a majority of the whole WWE roster, as opposed to maybe half of the Smackdown-exclusive roster of 2002, if you get me.

For whoever made the SD Six vs 2013 point that started the thread, I think it is actually a really good comparison to make, and will be interesting to revisit years down the line when we're more removed from the current stuff. Both are periods with a heavy emphasis on tag team wrestling and having a laundry list of long workrate matches on TV. The current era is just not as self-contained as the SD Six was, because then they were six guys all feuding with one another, and now we have a bunch of guys having matches with everyone on earth, even though there are frequently repeated combinations. To me you have to include everyone from the Shield, Bryan, Cesaro, the Rhodes bros and the Usos at the absolute minimum, and they all feud with and have had the relevant matches with very different people.

I would say Punk personally. Not having won it yet, and I guess being the biggest guy around who hasn't yet works in his favour. I see Reigns as an outside shot if they really want to go with him, but it feels ridiculously soon. I also don't see the hook for him vs Orton or whoever, they'd have to blow through his breakup with the Shield way too fast. I'd say Bryan but I feel like his Mania match is going to be far more about a personal victory over Hunter/Shawn/The Authority than winning the title.

This bothers me a fair bit too. I mean, I'm not even all that interested in matwork in itself, and it's not like I need to see WWE matches full of long stretches on the mat when there are more appropriate places for that kind of thing. But like, you have a guy who's gimmick is that he's an Olympic gold medal-winning wrestler, which is based on him actually being an Olympic gold medal-winning wrestler in real life, and every single person watching knows this and buys into him as an Olympic gold medal-winning wrestler...and the guy hardly ever demonstrates this. Hardly ever takes someone down to the mat and schools them, even when he's getting some shine, hardly ever uses wrestling tactics to get ahead or change momentum. He's always just punch, kick, stomp, suplex. The only time he really does it is if he's working a deliberately-styled 'technical' match with someone like Benoit, Eddie or Shawn, and most of the time in those cases, he gets outworked. Which I am actually fine with as long as Angle is the heel and it's someone who has enough credibility in the, excuse me, 'universe' of WWE to hang with Angle, which those guys do because they were all portrayed as excellent wrestlers. But then you get to KOTR and SHANE MCMAHON IS OUTWRESTLING KURT ANGLE and I just tap on that nonsense. That's like Colin Delaney doing strength spots on Mark Henry levels of bullshit. Angle doesn't protect, or project, his own gimmick nearly enough. There was that short period of time before leaving WWE where Angle was being built as the new ECW ace and worked as Shooter Angle, wearing a mouthguard, acting terrifyingly intense (even for Angle) and actually doing things like go for takedowns and work mat transitions and lay on guys, while still keeping traditional moves and having long TV matches when required. And I kind of enjoyed that version of Angle. I mean, if anyone on earth should be doing a faux MMA gimmick, it's Kurt Angle. And I guess the point is that it took a specific gimmick change for Kurt Angle, Olympic Gold Medallist, to actually start using amateur wrestling moves in his matches. It's such a waste of the talent and gimmick that he has to just work punch-kick like everyone else. I always think back to Angle's feud with James Storm. I swear to God they built this match like it was Angle the Olympic wrestler versus Storm the redneck cowboy brawler, and then they got to the match and Angle was punching and kicking, before Storm took over with a headlock and other wrestling moves, and I just cried in despair at these guys not getting it. I'm sorry I went off on a big anti-Angle tangent there, because I know that's not what this thread is for, and I do have a fair few positive things to say about Angle, which I will get to.

I think Dave's point was that it wasn't an organic spontaneous reaction, but one that was expected and scripted by having Benoit look at the crowd with big eyes that screamed "please cheer for me" whilst he hobbled to the back like a wounded warrior. To their credit though (Angle and Benoit's credit I mean), the crowd actually wanted to give it to him. I mean compare it to something like Hunter making the same puppy dog eyes and getting "Na na na na, hey hey, goodbye" from the crowd, because they didn't buy into the moment. Benoit earned the ovation, the crowd clearly loved the match.

Because they totally cared about workrate.

For what I'd say is the absolute best stuff, I'd say Cena/Umaga is easily #1. Its not the most popular stuff here but I'd throw all of what I called the 'End of an Era' Mania matches - Shawn/Flair through the two Shawn/Takers and the two Hunter/Takers - at the top. I think of them as a whole because I love the story that runs through all of the matches from one year to the next, and I think they are overblown, overdramatic, 'WWE storytelling epic' at its finest. When you say Sheamus vs Henry do you mean Sheamus vs Show? Because man do I ever love that match and I'd have it on a list for sure. Not tippity top level but certainly the one below that. In comparison to the original list it would be somewhere in my lower second tier/high third tier, at bare minimum.

HOLY SHIT YES. I think Rey is Angle's best opponent, and this is my favourite match of theirs. It was an unbelievable sprint with Rey just throwing EVERYTHING at Angle, who is desperately trying to contain him, and finally succeeding with the finish you mentioned. Love that match. I hope that I'm not being lumped into some anti-SD Six group just because I have criticisms about Angle/Benoit as a match up. I motherfucking love the SD Six.

Man, I am all over this shit. If there's two things I love, it's modern WWE and making endless lists. Of the matches in the OP here is the order in which I would rank them: Cena vs Umaga, Royal Rumble 2007 Taker vs Shawn, Wrestlemania 25 Cena vs Brock, Extreme Rules 2012 Cena vs Punk, Money in the Bank 2011 Cena vs Bryan, Summerslam 2013 Eddie vs Brock, No Way Out 2004 Rey vs Eddie, Smackdown 23/6/05 Brock vs Punk, Summerslam 2013 Bryan vs Sheamus, Extreme Rules 2012 Eddie vs JBL, Judgment Day 2004 The Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Ryback, TLC 2012 Show vs Mayweather, Wrestlemania 24 Matt vs Edge, Unforgiven 2005 Punk vs Bryan, Over the Limit 2012 Hardyz vs MNM, Royal Rumble 2007 I put them in groups rather than a hard order, because I could probably rank them entirely differently tomorrow. But take the first three tiers to mean that they're probably in my Top 20, Top 50 and Top 100 respectively. Punk/Bryan and Hardyz/MNM I don't have on the same level, but they're still great and both still seem like Top 20 matches for their years. For what it's worth, I'd have Rey/Cena somewhere in the second tier. And on The Shield, one I idea I have which I want to find some time to do over the holidays is to go through every Shield match ever and rank them in order of their quality. All the Shield matches seem to run together, there's so many of them, so I kind of want to come up with a list that highlights the actual standout ones. And there is a Shield comp out there that goes up until the first loss, and I totally recommend it.

In at least one of the Smackdown vs Raw games there was a special thing that a babyface could use where in a situation where his whole body was damaged into the red, he could power up and for a time no-sell the damage and hit a bunch of moves. In other words, make a superman comeback. So, there should be one for the epic babyfaces who do that (Cena, Hogan, etc.)

What was so great about the psychology of Angle-Benoit? I fact, what even was the psychology of Angle-Benoit? Apart from "two über workrate guys workrate the fuck out of each other." My memory of the match is that the psychology is non-existent. They just take turns doing moves, lots of moves. There's no story involved in any of it, and even the moves themselves werent that novel or interesting. they just did stuff. Going into my most recent viewing of it, I figured the overkill finisher-fest would piss me off the most. In fact, that was the best part of the match because at least it was exciting. Everything up until that point was just...doing moves, and not in a very interesting way. I get liking the match, and I especially get liking the match if you're into the Kurt Angle, go go go, let's do lots of MOVES style, and liking it for its athleticism. I do not get the claim that the match has excellent psychology. 3)The beginning of the Rumble match was pretty good although not as legendary as say Unforgiven's starting., etc. I just watched Unforgiven and yeah, the opening is really good. The first half of this match is probably the best thing they've managed to do in the ring as opponents. Unforgiven for me fell off from a really strong opening into a...good second half. There was a point where they kind of went "BAM, let's start trading triple Germans!" (as there always seems to be in these matches) and it kind of took me down a little. There was also a point where Angle took the flipping German on his head (for the first time? one of the first times anyway sure) and died...and then was sprinting up the ropes to do his "surprise" top rope throw literally seconds later, which is the kind of thing that takes me out of a match. There are times when I don't mind that spot where it's clear that he's either had ample time to recover from whatever move it was, or he's playing possum until they get up there. Here where he blows off a death move far too quickly to pop up and do it, no thanks. The second half was fine, again, but you talk about escalation and to me the way they escalate in matches...there's a veneer of artificiality to it. It's too simple, too...neat and tidy. It's like they have a checklist of The States of Escalation that they tick off as they go along: - matwork - start punching/brawling - BAM German suplexes! - diving headbutt/top rope leap/Angle Slam - Crossface/Ankle Lock trading - finish It was just too organised, like their moves were ordered in a line from smallest to biggest. Matwork leads to clotheslines leads to Germans leads to headbutt/Angle Slam leads to submission finishers. I mean I'm not really leaving any moves or stretches of time out of this description, once you reach the BAM Germans threshold that's all there was, they just went from A to B to C in a line. If you look at a really good match that has a good sense of escalation about it, they're not so linear. Of course generally they make the same progression from opening stuff to bigger moves to finishers, but it's fleshed out a lot more, there are transitions. And when they get it right, they can hit a big move, then follow it up with something simple like a punch or chop or clothesline or rollup or whatever, and still make it feel like an escalation, through selling exhaustion, struggle and the impact of the move. Angle just seems incapable of that. He hits a move and thinks the only way to top it and escalate the match is to hit a BIGGER one. Thats why you get those bad Angle matches with 37 finishers, because he uses a finisher mid-match for a pop, and then the only way he thinks he can go is up, so he hits 36 more. The escalation is artificial, is what I'm saying. They're not telling the story of a match escalating through their body language or selling or anything else. They're telling it by hitting bigger moves now, so it MUST have escalated, right? I just find it a little manufactured, and the later Angle "TOP THIS" finisher-fests are just an extension of that. I'm sure I'm coming off as more down on the match itself than I was. I liked it, and liked it more than the last time I watched it. I think last time I didn't really like the finish with the ropes for some reason, but seeing it again I think it was pretty clever and very well done, aside from Angle's shoulders visibly not being down for the pin. I liked the match on the whole, particularly the opening matwork, I just don't think it was a particularly great match. I agree the psychology of one-upmanship works, but I also think the psychology of the way they built the match was lacking. It's just not what I want out of a match. I am going to end up watching the Rumble match soon as well. There are also TV matches from October, December and February, so I may just watch them all to see the match-to-match stuff.