MoS

I give him credit for making Sable a huge ratings draw

I am not going to go into the details, because I don't know enough about the off-screen dealings of RoH, but it is very illuminating when the standard defence by people like Cornette and Bischoff against "popular narratives" mostly is "I never had that much power this was not on me!!!" But the same people never have issues claiming credit for all the creatively acclaimed things that did happen in that time period. It makes them look hypocritical. (Not at all a shot at you, but at wrestling people who put themselves over in shoot interviews.) Cornette is an all-time great mic worker, so even I myself would believe him a lot more than I would ever believe, say, Russo. But it is fundamentally the same kind of defence imo. Cornette could have had a bunch of reasons for not booking Steen and Generico as much as he should have - and it is clear by the way you talk about Generico that you completely agree with his reasons. I don't care if the reason he did not book them was not that he did not like them. His motivations are irrelevant to me, as is the Bucks thinking Corny is devil incarnate. Fact is they were over enough to warrant a more prominent push, and that did not happen. Yes, you can argue that Generico should have unmasked and started cutting promos cuz he could talk his ass off. It does not change the fact that with his mask on and without talking, he built a fan following that, as you yourself say, the likes of Michael Elgin did not. Yes, you can argue that Steen should have lost weight. Dusty gained quite a bit of weight in his legendary 80s run compared to his 70s Florida run, when he looked more like a big athlete. He was still effective. (Not for a second am I trying to argue that Steen was as talented as Dusty, but what someone can be should not become an enemy of what someone already is.) Cornette himself has said that Bill Watts always taught him that the only hard rule in wrestling is what gets over and draws money is the correct approach. He became blind to that in RoH. It's unfortunate because he showed in OVW that he could be a lot more flexible. But by the late 2000s, he had a gimmick and an image to protect and nurture as well. Baba was always disappointed with Taue because Taue was the most naturally talented of the 4 pillars and yet he would not train hard the way others would. That did not stop him from pushing him prominently and making him a pillar. Hell, he was more flexible in his SMW days. My thought has always been that he is an excellent producer and an all-time great at producing coherent formats (not scripts, cuz that would drive him crazy) for television shows that look good on camera and logically and competently execute a vision or an idea. But he is narrow-minded and not the greatest at actually thinking of a grand idea or vision. My argument - and I am open to being corrected - is that his general vision of what RoH "should" be was counter-productive and overshadowed some really good individual booking programs that he came up with. It's a pity that he is as deep in his own hole as he is, cuz when I watch Dynamite, I often feel they would benefit greatly from someone like Cornette, who has a ton of experience booking wrestling TV for international cable and who is good at logical A to B to C booking, to complement the general idea/vision that Tony Khan and the promoters have.

This is the gist of what I was trying to argue, except a lot more articulate and on the nose. Thanks, Loss!

If Corny pushed Richards solely because he was the biggest star in the company, surely he could have found ways to make Generico a centerpiece, despite not approving of his gimmick. Corny clearly had an issue with over acts who did not fit his vision of what wrestling should be. While WWF becoming edgier definitely was a big factor in starting a turnaround, what creative booking idea of Russo played an important role in WWF becoming hot? He was not there when Austin became hot and started feuding with Bret. The Bret heel turn where he would be a face internationally was McMahon's idea and Bret himself played a key role in executing it. Bringing Mike Tyson in was McMahon's idea. So what was Russo's idea? Austin stunning McMahon? The Austin-Dude Love feud in 1998 that really helped solidify Austin as a mega-draw after Tyson got him mainstream attention? Rock turning heel and becoming corporate champion? These are not rhetorical questions: Russo automatically gets credit for the Attitude Era, but what successful, instrumental angles and storylines was he a crucial contributor to, something that really helped make WWF hot or increase its hotness?

I don't know/remember the business dealings at that time, but I should have clarified: I meant booking-wise, the quality and appeal of the product went to the ground. It's more a comment on his booking. I also remember some Davey Richards matches that he pushed heavily that were terrible, with Richards doing a gimmick where he would tweet shit like "Wrestling is something I do between my MMA classes."

Cornette booked OVW in the early 2000s and did an excellent job both running a weekly circuit and developing future stars. That is a better record than anything Russo has been involved in that was not directly modified by Vince McMahon. Heyman took over after Corny got inevitably in trouble and he did not do a great job. Further, SMW was certainly not a financial catastrophe. It died because the wrestling industry was in terrible shape and no company could survive without television, but in its initial year or so it did decent business. IIRC, they were actually outdrawing WCW in the same areas. I have not watched RoH, but one of my best friends who is a huge indy fan says Cornette ran RoH into the ground with his terrible booking. So there definitely came a period when modern wrestling passed by Cornette and he could not adapt to it. But to pretend Vince Russo was more deserving of a spot in pro wrestling in 1997 than Corny cuz he was "creative" is more preposterous than Corny thinking Lawler's racist remark should not be criticised. Corny is the reason Kane STILL is an over character after almost 25 years. Creativity is terribly overrated because creativity for creativity's sake is awful. Like, I will renounce all worldly pleasures and live in the himalayas as a hermit level awful. And no one exemplifes this more than Vince Russo. "WOULDN'T IT BE AMAZING IF ROSS AND RACHEL GAVE BIRTH TO AN ELEPHANT" is also creative, but it is certainly not a solution to Friends seeing declining ratings. Creativity and innovation have also been used to criticise wrestlers like Bret and Cena, ignoring that formulae work because they make sense and connect with people. WWE's biggest problem is not a lack of creativity. They find plenty of creative ways to screw over their current talent. Their biggest problem is a lack of sensible booking that has consequences and stakes and result in actual progression of characters and stories. A lot of these stories and characters would progress on fairly predictable lines. Everyone knew Austin would stun the boss. Everyone knew Mandy would eventually side with Otis. Vince Russo would have probably got Otis to screw Mandy again and then form a gay couple with Dolph who hates women and would sabotage all heterosexual relationships. "No one would think of that, bro!! SWERVE, BRO!!!!"

This year has been a complete nightmare.

Hager is awful. Just awful. They are REALLY lucky WWE tempered expectations with Edge-Orton, because while I liked the amateur exchanges, it was really slow and that stuff drags really bad without a hot crowd.

God I hope they have learned from the WWE matches and this does not go too long.

AEW's insistence on pushing Shawn Spears is weird. He is a ratings flop and his matches are usually mediocre at best.

We clearly and obviously need The Bubbly Bunch give daily updates on everything

He did, Iirc. The name was the WBF announcer who made that allegation against Patterson was Murray Hodgson.

It will be interesting to see how big a paycheck cut Vince, Steph, Hunter and all the other executives take.

Jericho is the GOAT commentator

It was reported earlier, but he also demoted Hunter recently, for whatever that's worth https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2020/3/13/21178320/triple-h-quietly-demoted-wwe-management

I dunno what is going on with Vince in the last 5-6 days, but wow. Hasn't Chioda been with WWE forever?

They updated the article. Gallows is gone too. As is Eric Young. The Drake thing makes it clear that the call and these firings are a last-second decision.

^Apropos that:

Thanks @Blehschmidt and @The Thread Killer for the summary. I am glad he aired his side of the story; I have no idea whom to believe though. I absolutely agree with Sullivan about Benoit fanboys who had desperately in 2007 tried to conjure up multiple conspiracy theories about Sullivan being the killer. It was a distasteful thing to say, all because some people couldn't come to terms with the fact that their fav wrestler was a murderer.

Golf is a sport that requires physical exertion and skill. It is a terrible spectator sport that bores me to tears though.

I am sure that was done with Bearcat Wright's consent. I doubt Jerry Lawler took permission while referring to a very dated, very racist stereotype. This is without even going into the argument about change being a good thing. Cornette clearly wants to live in an ivory tower where he can act like it's still 1983. He might be the greatest promo guy in history and is able to talk well enough to gain enough followers to the point it makes him a lot of money. Good for him. But it just makes his opinions progressively more irrelevant.

Well played

What does not make sense is still believing Corbin > Rusev. Maybe if Corbin had been buried in the midcard for years. Given he is front and centre in the main event all the time, he sucks horribly.

It was interesting to see Flair say that he thought he was a terrible babyface and had very limited offence. I thought his offence, while not elite, was great, and I thought he was an all-time great face, in the Carolinas, in 1989, and in WCW in the late 90s. It's funny, because as good as he was, I think he would have been even better had he thought more highly of himself.